View Full Version : Nevada Blackout Begins
David-LV
01-28-2009, 01:11 PM
The blackout has started in Nevada as of today Wed. Jan 28.
The tracks involved right now are: :bang:
SA, GP, LRL, OAK, GG.
_______
David
http://www.homebased2.com/forums/images/brn/misc/progress.gif
Jimmy712
01-28-2009, 01:12 PM
what is the reason for this blackout?
there's nothing more to say , but....
How the cappers that do this for big bucks, continue to put up with this is beyond me.
Their are so many easy markets to play, oh well.
rrbauer
01-28-2009, 01:35 PM
The blackout has started in Nevada as of today Wed. Jan 28.
The tracks involved right now are: :bang:
SA, GP, LRL, OAK, GG.
_______
David
http://www.homebased2.com/forums/images/brn/misc/progress.gif
Does tracknet rep Oaklawn Park?
David-LV
01-28-2009, 01:53 PM
Does tracknet rep Oaklawn Park?
Yes, Oaklawn Park is one of the tracks that Tracknet Rep.
The five tracks that are affected by this blackout that are running now are:
Santa Anita, Golden Gate, Gulfstream, Laurel, & Oaklawn Park.
_____
David
startngate
01-28-2009, 01:54 PM
Tracknet.To be fair, it's not just TrackNet's fault. NV Parimutuel gets a little of the blame too.
Does tracknet rep Oaklawn Park?Yes .. it started with last year's meet.
Press Release (http://www.churchilldownsincorporated.com/our_company/company_news/2008/07/22/tracknet_media_group_to_manage_simulcast_sales_and _purchasing_fo)
takeout
01-28-2009, 02:09 PM
I doubt that Vegas cares. I don’t think I would if I were them.
To be fair, it's not just TrackNet's fault. NV Parimutuel gets a little of the blame too.
Yes .. it started with last year's meet.
Press Release (http://www.churchilldownsincorporated.com/our_company/company_news/2008/07/22/tracknet_media_group_to_manage_simulcast_sales_and _purchasing_fo)
Vegas is doing racing a favor by even having sports books. I doubt they are making much, if anything, from racing.
Bobzilla
01-28-2009, 02:38 PM
Linda Ferris, the racebook director at The Orleans casino, indicated to me the other day that the impasse between the Nevada Pari-Mutual Association and Tracknet will likely impact the Horse Player World Series next month (2/19 - 2/21). Seven tracks are usually used for the tournament, but now only Aqueduct, Tampa Bay Downs and The Fairgrounds are available if this issue isn't resolved by mid February. I wonder what other tracks might be appropriate replacements. Philadelphia? Penn National? I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with tracks that have small pools being used for a tournament where first place gets $350,000.
Lefty
01-28-2009, 04:15 PM
I think FG is on that list too.
I went to JN today and no day racing. Aqu and Beu got cancelled by weather. A mile walk for nothing. Oh, well.
Fair Grounds wasn't scheduled to run today.
ezrabrooks
01-28-2009, 04:26 PM
I think FG is on that list too.
I went to JN today and no day racing. Aqu and Beu got cancelled by weather. A mile walk for nothing. Oh, well.
I think FG had a prior agreement with NV..and will not be subject to this initial blackout.
Ez
Lefty
01-28-2009, 04:30 PM
CJ, I know. I was basing my comment on the fact that FG is owned by CD and CD would be involved if it lasts that long.
Ezra, I hope you're right. Just about all the tracks I like are involved.
LottaKash
01-28-2009, 10:21 PM
A real power-play shootout, it will be interesting to see the eventual outcome of this feud........:jump:....Any prop bets ?
best,
Lefty
01-28-2009, 10:37 PM
If anybody hears anything, please post it. I don't want to keep making mile walks for nothing.
InsideThePylons-MW
01-28-2009, 11:08 PM
The people in charge of racing are blacking out the signal in hopes of.....
1. Vegas bettors carpooling the almost 3 hour drive to the Victorville, CA simulcast facility.
2. Making the early morning drive to the airport so they can hop on a plane and fly to the track they want to bet on.
3. Since NV residents can't sign up with any ADW's, the tracks are developing a how-to guide on getting a friend or relative to sign up for an ADW account in an eligible state which will let NV residents bypass the rules.
4. Any horseplayer that has a trip to Vegas planned will cancel, stay home and bet the races at their home track. That should bring Vegas to it's knees.
5. Racebooks will convert their thousands of sq ft of valuable casino space, that is completely vacant on Fri-Sat nights when the rest of the casino is full, into slot machine heaven. They will lose so much money on the machines that they will come begging the tracks to let them back in at any price.
levinmpa
01-29-2009, 10:58 AM
More of these kinds of situations should be expected in the future from the Tracknet group. What can you expect when you have 2 companies like CDI and Magna involved. As existing agreements expire, Tracknet will play hardball and will alienate more and more horseplayers for one reason only. Dollars.
The Nevada Racebooks are a unique entity in the simulcast world. While most simulcast facilities take profits, the Nevada casinos put the what little profit there is back into the operation in the form of new racebook construction and improvements. Station Casinos has spent millions constructing new racebooks to showcase "the sport of kings". Sams Town put millions into a new racebook. The casinos also put their profits into their clientele in the form of perks for the players. Free Racing Forms, comped meals, rooms, and shows for their valuable customers.
Nevada should pay less, and here's why. Your general run-of-the-mill OTB is normally a building sitting somewhere, where one has to drive to. It's not sitting in a place like a mall, where the general public will see what is happening inside. Only those destined for the OTB will be exposed to the excitement and action. A Nevada casino racebook on the other hand, exposes the sport to millions of visitors that might be strolling through the casino. When "Joe Tourist" is walking through Wynn Las Vegas and hears the roar from the crowd as a field runs through the stretch, he's going to take notice. Tracknet and others that bring their signals into Nevada are getting their products exposed to millions of potential customers. Nowhere else can offer this premium.
Wake up Tracknet! The economy is terrible. Business at the Nevada casinos is way down, and now you are asking for a bigger cut. The casinos in Nevada are doing you a favor by exposing your product to millions of toursist, but you want more. Go ahead, shoot yourselves in the foot. You deserve what you're about to get.
David-LV
01-29-2009, 11:43 AM
More of these kinds of situations should be expected in the future from the Tracknet group. What can you expect when you have 2 companies like CDI and Magna involved. As existing agreements expire, Tracknet will play hardball and will alienate more and more horseplayers for one reason only. Dollars.
The Nevada Racebooks are a unique entity in the simulcast world. While most simulcast facilities take profits, the Nevada casinos put the what little profit there is back into the operation in the form of new racebook construction and improvements. Station Casinos has spent millions constructing new racebooks to showcase "the sport of kings". Sams Town put millions into a new racebook. The casinos also put their profits into their clientele in the form of perks for the players. Free Racing Forms, comped meals, rooms, and shows for their valuable customers.
Nevada should pay less, and here's why. Your general run-of-the-mill OTB is normally a building sitting somewhere, where one has to drive to. It's not sitting in a place like a mall, where the general public will see what is happening inside. Only those destined for the OTB will be exposed to the excitement and action. A Nevada casino racebook on the other hand, exposes the sport to millions of visitors that might be strolling through the casino. When "Joe Tourist" is walking through Wynn Las Vegas and hears the roar from the crowd as a field runs through the stretch, he's going to take notice. Tracknet and others that bring their signals into Nevada are getting their products exposed to millions of potential customers. Nowhere else can offer this premium.
Wake up Tracknet! The economy is terrible. Business at the Nevada casinos is way down, and now you are asking for a bigger cut. The casinos in Nevada are doing you a favor by exposing your product to millions of toursist, but you want more. Go ahead, shoot yourselves in the foot. You deserve what you're about to get.
You my friend have hit the nail right on the head.:)
Excellent post.:)
_______
David
yes, very WELL SAID!
the tracknuts have no game.
fmazur
01-29-2009, 01:24 PM
I am looking at this as a chance to take a good look at the Greyhounds and Harness racing. It actually may make handicapping easier since the trotters always race a mile and the Greyhounds 550 yards and each of them usually race every week. Much easier to get a handle on.
the hounds are a great play!
but, don't get me started on the "trainers" :rolleyes: in that industry!
More of these kinds of situations should be expected in the future from the Tracknet group. What can you expect when you have 2 companies like CDI and Magna involved. As existing agreements expire, Tracknet will play hardball and will alienate more and more horseplayers for one reason only. Dollars.
The Nevada Racebooks are a unique entity in the simulcast world. While most simulcast facilities take profits, the Nevada casinos put the what little profit there is back into the operation in the form of new racebook construction and improvements. Station Casinos has spent millions constructing new racebooks to showcase "the sport of kings". Sams Town put millions into a new racebook. The casinos also put their profits into their clientele in the form of perks for the players. Free Racing Forms, comped meals, rooms, and shows for their valuable customers.
Nevada should pay less, and here's why. Your general run-of-the-mill OTB is normally a building sitting somewhere, where one has to drive to. It's not sitting in a place like a mall, where the general public will see what is happening inside. Only those destined for the OTB will be exposed to the excitement and action. A Nevada casino racebook on the other hand, exposes the sport to millions of visitors that might be strolling through the casino. When "Joe Tourist" is walking through Wynn Las Vegas and hears the roar from the crowd as a field runs through the stretch, he's going to take notice. Tracknet and others that bring their signals into Nevada are getting their products exposed to millions of potential customers. Nowhere else can offer this premium.
Wake up Tracknet! The economy is terrible. Business at the Nevada casinos is way down, and now you are asking for a bigger cut. The casinos in Nevada are doing you a favor by exposing your product to millions of toursist, but you want more. Go ahead, shoot yourselves in the foot. You deserve what you're about to get.
Yes in deed! I can confirm that CDI is WRETCHED company.PLEASE cut your action to these dirtbags,it all we have.
rrbauer
01-30-2009, 08:40 AM
Some racebooks are booking the Cal tracks...any input from Nevada locals as to which ones are doing that?
http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/49005.htm
David-LV
01-30-2009, 09:31 AM
Some racebooks are booking the Cal tracks...any input from Nevada locals as to which ones are doing that?
http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/49005.htm
THe books that I know for sure that are house booking are Wynn, & all the Station Casinos. Station Casinos are giving you triple points on all pari-mutual bets thru Feb.15.
Stations are taking win, place, show, doubles, exactas, house q's, trifectas, pick 3's, and parlays on the blackout tracks with the normal house limits.
___________
David
David-LV
01-30-2009, 11:31 AM
An excellent article by Richard Eng in todays Las Vegas Review Journal.
____
David
__________________________________________________ ___________
__________________________________________________ ___________
RICHARD ENG: TrackNet not a necessity for Nevada's race books
http://media.lvrj.com/images/richard_eng.jpg
RICHARD ENG
TrackNet's blackout in Nevada could last a week, a month or a year -- it's anybody's guess. But there's one thing I would tell TrackNet: You need Nevada a lot more than Nevada needs you.
TrackNet, which represents Churchill Downs- and Magna-owned racetracks, failed to reach a new agreement with the Nevada Pari-Mutuel Association. Since Wednesday, the signal from Golden Gate, Gulfstream, Laurel, Oaklawn and Santa Anita has been blacked out in our race books.
http://www.lvrj.com/sports/38688994.html
MikeDee
01-30-2009, 11:53 AM
I for one don't get it.
Why should Vegas get a free ride? Lets all bow down to the Vegas books and give them what they want.
Time for them to pay up or shut up. We talk about how racing has value and we want the sport to survive on one hand and then cry about how the Vegas books should get the product for nearly nothing.
I think ALL the tracks should boycott Vegas, until they pay their fair share, just like the other ADWs.
People don't go to Vegas to bet horses. There was a time they did, I know I did, but not anymore. Anything bet in Vegas is a bonus to the tracks. They should take whatever they can get. Also, as evidenced by what is happening, Vegas can and will book bets on racing and make more money.
I don't know of many business models that proceed under the theory that when your business is dying and the trends seem against you that you raise prices and restrict access to the product.
However, I have not seen it all so maybe that works somewhere.
toetoe
01-30-2009, 12:08 PM
Yes, in general, racebooks break even at best. However, at the South Point they are making money. :eek: ... :jump: .
rrbauer
01-30-2009, 05:28 PM
I for one don't get it.
Why should Vegas get a free ride? Lets all bow down to the Vegas books and give them what they want.
Time for them to pay up or shut up. We talk about how racing has value and we want the sport to survive on one hand and then cry about how the Vegas books should get the product for nearly nothing.
I think ALL the tracks should boycott Vegas, until they pay their fair share, just like the other ADWs.
Unless this has changed recently, Los Al has not sent their signal to LV for quite a few years. Basically the owner of Los Al was annoyed with the rebate situation that became the multi-faceted comp situation when rebates were outlawed by the gaming commission; and, the low rate that LV wanted to pay for his signal.
Hasn't seemed to hurt Los Al or LV.
There are no winners in these pissing matches and the customers get all the spray.
toetoe
01-30-2009, 05:36 PM
RR,
In the two years I have been here, Los Alamitos have always been included. I don't disbelieve you, but it's not the case now. :)
BlueShoe
01-30-2009, 08:04 PM
Bah,humbug.Have reservations for a midweek visit to Laughlin the week of the 9th.Am giving serious consideration to scrubbing the trip,since most of my activity is in the racebook.But then again,with the light schedule with the remaining tracks,this might be a good time to brush up on my 21 game.My card counting skills are very rusty and need much practice.Dogs will skip,but the night harness racing is another option that has been ignored on past trips.
rrbauer
01-30-2009, 08:32 PM
RR,
In the two years I have been here, Los Alamitos have always been included. I don't disbelieve you, but it's not the case now. :)
OK thanks.
I guess Doc decided that 3% was better than 0%. I've been out of that loop since '04 so I really didn't know.
David-LV
02-04-2009, 03:46 AM
Los Alamitos is being taken in Nevada on Thur, Fri, & Sat at most locations.
I don't know of anyone bringing Los Alamitos in on Sun.
______
David
NTamm1215
02-04-2009, 06:36 PM
Has anyone heard anything on whether this might be resolved soon? I'm headed out this weekend and am not looking forward to having the wagering menu so limited.
NT
Has anyone heard anything on whether this might be resolved soon? I'm headed out this weekend and am not looking forward to having the wagering menu so limited.
NT
I'm surprised the loss of Tracknet hasn't caused Vegas to close. I thought at the very least there would be flights canceled, casinos cutting hours, etc.
NTamm1215
02-04-2009, 07:46 PM
I'm surprised the loss of Tracknet hasn't caused Vegas to close. I thought at the very least there would be flights canceled, casinos cutting hours, etc.
I suppose that's the announcement Daruty is waiting for. Someone ought to let him know that it's not coming. I imagine he's not bending, which he's going to have to do.
NT
David-LV
02-04-2009, 10:17 PM
I suppose that's the announcement Daruty is waiting for. Someone ought to let him know that it's not coming. I imagine he's not bending, which he's going to have to do.
NT
Every day lost is money that can never be recovered, more so on Tracknet's side then the casinos as people are just getting use to betting other tracks in Nevada.
I don't see any real drop off in the amount of people that are in the racebooks that I play in.
This is track handle lost for all times, much more so on the tracks side then the casinos. :confused:
Wake up Tracknet, you are drawing to a dead hand where Nevada is concerned. :bang:
By the way, I don't think you can find any better racing for a handicapper to make some serious money then at my new favorite track Tampa Bay.
Remember Tracknet this famous saying: ZERO PERCENT OF ZERO IS ZERO.
______
David
rrbauer
02-05-2009, 09:26 AM
Has anyone heard anything on whether this might be resolved soon? I'm headed out this weekend and am not looking forward to having the wagering menu so limited.
NT
Friends in town for the Super Bowl tell me that there was some mild anguish over not being able to bet Santa Anita but soon they were off betting on something else.....
Friends in town for the Super Bowl tell me that there was some mild anguish over not being able to bet Santa Anita but soon they were off betting on something else.....
I was just gonna write that my observation out there is the west coast tracks are more popular with the clientele. I hope Vegas tells tracknet to shove it, and when they offer to come down a little in a few months, tell them to shove it even further.
toetoe
02-05-2009, 12:55 PM
David,
Not trying to win a point, but except for Hyper Bole Sunday, South Point have carried Los Al every day, incl. Sunday.
Come on down !!! :)
Judicious Player
02-05-2009, 01:57 PM
Linda Ferris, the racebook director at The Orleans casino, indicated to me the other day that the impasse between the Nevada Pari-Mutual Association and Tracknet will likely impact the Horse Player World Series next month (2/19 - 2/21). Seven tracks are usually used for the tournament, but now only Aqueduct, Tampa Bay Downs and The Fairgrounds are available if this issue isn't resolved by mid February. I wonder what other tracks might be appropriate replacements. Philadelphia? Penn National? I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with tracks that have small pools being used for a tournament where first place gets $350,000.
Only 500 players are expected, and I doubt that they will get that. I have a "comped" entry, plus free rooms, through my Sam's Town play, and I will not be attending, given that my California tracks are not part of the contest.
Also, with the reduction in attendance, there will no longer be a $350,000.00 first-place prize. Try 66% of that figure. Realize that an 11th place finish could earn you only $3,000.00. Why drive from the Pasadena area to Vegas for that? May as well drive the 2 miles to Santa Anita . . .
DrunkenHorseplayer
02-05-2009, 04:15 PM
I'm aware that they're booking the blacked-out tracks but do they show the odds for those tracks or do you just have to go by the ML and guess what the odds might be?
toetoe
02-05-2009, 06:09 PM
No video. :( .
BlueShoe
02-05-2009, 06:16 PM
While this article is a year old,it is still meaningful.As Mr. Eng points out,Nevada racebooks do generate revenue and are an important part of the casino environment.
www.lvrj.com/sports/14309912.html (http://www.lvrj.com/sports/14309912.html)
The Hawk
02-05-2009, 06:59 PM
No video. :( .
So you can bet the races but can't watch them, or the odds? Is it legal to have a laptop in the book?
rrbauer
02-05-2009, 08:39 PM
I'm aware that they're booking the blacked-out tracks but do they show the odds for those tracks or do you just have to go by the ML and guess what the odds might be?
I was told, "no odds" and "the results come in about 10 minutes after the race is over".
David-LV
02-05-2009, 09:03 PM
So you can bet the races but can't watch them, or the odds? Is it legal to have a laptop in the book?
Yes, laptops are allowed in the race books.
_______
David
The Hawk
02-05-2009, 09:19 PM
Yes, laptops are allowed in the race books.
_______
David
And would it be a big no-no to have a wireless signal and live odds and video on the screen?
rrbauer
02-05-2009, 09:33 PM
And would it be a big no-no to have a wireless signal and live odds and video on the screen?
Why would it? If you're betting and they're booking, pretty soon you'll have half the place looking over your shoulder and rooting for their picks while watching your video!
sonnyp
02-05-2009, 10:36 PM
some of the casinos are showing tvg on their tvs. this gives legal current odds and instant results but no race.
ridiculously, they cant show hrtv.
PaceAdvantage
02-05-2009, 10:46 PM
If they're showing TVG, they're only showing about 3 to 4 tracks at most...
NTamm1215
02-05-2009, 10:51 PM
If they're showing TVG, they're only showing about 3 to 4 tracks at most...'
And nothing that's controlled by TrackNet.
NT
sonnyp
02-05-2009, 10:59 PM
let me preface, this info's source was the ralph sirrocco radio show.
the casinos mentioned above, are showing what they can legally and taking parimutual wagers on those tracks.
in addition, for the tracks which they cannot show (especially california which is of great interest to vegas bettors) are being booked and they're showing tvg to provide as much info as they can, legally i.e. current odds and instant results.
BlueShoe
02-06-2009, 12:24 AM
Anyone remember the way otb was in Nevada in the days before the modern simulcast era?Racebooks in hotel/casinos did not come into being until the mid 70's when the Union Plaza and the Stardust started the trend.Players bet the horses in stand alone often run down buildings with colorful names like Derby,Churchill Downs,Saratoga,or Rose Bowl.They were smoky and maybe served coffee and hotdogs.Free drink service?You must be kidding.Guys right out of a Damon Runyon story hung around talking out of the side of their mouth.There were no tv's or live race calls.No electronic boards,just the old style wallboards.The player had to guess at the odds.At a few places,and at some tracks,a guy would come over the PA about 5 minutes before post time and give an odds rundown.Betting would close 2 or 3 minutes before the given postime,the books were paranoid about being past posted.Oh yes,almost forgot,sending bets into the parimutual pools was not even thought of,they booked bets the old fashioned way.About 10 or 15 minutes after the race went off,the guy would come on the speaker and say,"winner coming at --".Then a fat guy with a cigar clamped between his teeth would scamble up a stairway and pause before the board,then mark the results and prices on the board.At California tracks the guy would come on and give what was called a "recreated call"of the running of the race.Tickets were written by hand,not fed into a computer.A ticket had three copies;one for player,one for the house,and one for the tax man.Speaking of taxes,there was a time in the 50's and 60's when there was a 10% federal tax on each bet.Thats right,you bet 10 bucks on a horse,and you had to pony up another dollar for the feds.To ease the sting a bit,many players would bet parlays,since the tax was only paid on the front end bet.The tax was eventually reduced and then eliminated.Ah the old days.Very crude and primitive compared to todays modern racebook,but funny thing,the old books were always crowded,and no one complained about the way things were.So,if for a little while they do things the old way for a few tracks,so what?Might be fun for a few oldtimers,and for the not so oldtimers,it wont hurt too much.
DrunkenHorseplayer
02-06-2009, 02:49 AM
Is this legal?
Racebook management is on the phone with someone who is watching TrackNet at his house. At ten minutes to post, then five minutes to post and then one minute to post this person informs the book of the horses' odds in a particular race and management, in turn, posts that info in the racebook (on a board using magic marker).
boomman
02-06-2009, 08:52 AM
Why would it? If you're betting and they're booking, pretty soon you'll have half the place looking over your shoulder and rooting for their picks while watching your video!
Very true Rich! And to answer Hawk's question, the State of Nevada issued a one year moritorium on the ridiculous "no communication devices allowed in racebooks" last fall. They didn't change the law, they simply suspended it for a year, so we'll see what happens. So as far as the books telling you that you can't talk on a cellphone or use a computer in the book, that law is currently NOT in effect. As for this ridiculous blackout, get back to the table Scott Daruty and fix this!!!!!!!!!:mad:
Boomer
rrbauer
02-06-2009, 08:55 AM
Is this legal?
Racebook management is on the phone with someone who is watching TrackNet at his house. At ten minutes to post, then five minutes to post and then one minute to post this person informs the book of the horses' odds in a particular race and management, in turn, posts that info in the racebook (on a board using magic marker).
Vegas? Legal? :)
David-LV
02-06-2009, 09:27 AM
let me preface, this info's source was the ralph sirrocco radio show.
the casinos mentioned above, are showing what they can legally and taking parimutual wagers on those tracks.
in addition, for the tracks which they cannot show (especially california which is of great interest to vegas bettors) are being booked and they're showing tvg to provide as much info as they can, legally i.e. current odds and instant results.
TVG as of Wed. of this week has dropped showing the odds at SA.
I assume it has something to do with the blackout with Nevada as most locations were showing the odds updates at SA from TVG.
_________
David
David-LV
02-06-2009, 09:33 AM
Is this legal?
Racebook management is on the phone with someone who is watching TrackNet at his house. At ten minutes to post, then five minutes to post and then one minute to post this person informs the book of the horses' odds in a particular race and management, in turn, posts that info in the racebook (on a board using magic marker).
Not legal for the casino to do it, a violation of racetracks copyrights as owner of the information, legal if calling a player direct.
________
David
Bobzilla
02-09-2009, 02:03 PM
Only 500 players are expected, and I doubt that they will get that. I have a "comped" entry, plus free rooms, through my Sam's Town play, and I will not be attending, given that my California tracks are not part of the contest.
Also, with the reduction in attendance, there will no longer be a $350,000.00 first-place prize. Try 66% of that figure. Realize that an 11th place finish could earn you only $3,000.00. Why drive from the Pasadena area to Vegas for that? May as well drive the 2 miles to Santa Anita . . .
I hope the turnout is better than 500 but I hear where you're coming from. I was just in touch with The Orleans and I was informed that if this impasse doesn't end by the 18th then Turfway will be used on Thursday and Saturday and Turf Paradise will be used on Friday and Saturday. If this disagreement should end by the 18th then GP, SA and GG will be added. I was told PHA and BEU are also possibilities. Sundland Park is not a possibility because it's a mixed meet and Turfway cannot be used on Friday because of night racing.
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