Aqu 5th Pat's Deliema clicks 3 times during race settles at 1-1 crossing wire

[asH]

I understand our beloved racing industry is not concerned with advancing itself for the good of racing in any capacity, I understand that. Look at yesterday's cards at Santa Anita and Gulfstream Park, beautiful cards in their own rites, but unless I'm Ollie the goalie, standing on my head maneuvering through the technical roadblocks, I'm not able to watch the magnificence (normally rendered clear TV-monitor). I can rant on and on ad infinitum but why, I still love the sport, but now I’ve become a bit more discriminating in when and how much I play; a reverse reciprocal (sounds nice) of how I feel my dollars are respected. Perhaps because of our economic situation, perhaps I'm just tired of obvious disrespect to players, whatever it is it has caused me to step back and reflect. Yeah vouchers help but when a scratched entry horse is effects a race but rules say he doesn’t, or a foul is not a foul when it is a foul or vice-versa (kind reminds me of why I don’t watch basketball…crab dribble? Or when baseball nearly lost me with the wide strike zone..Where did that one come from?) Anyway, today at Aqu race 5, Pat's Dilemma clicks 3 times during running of the race (3-2, 6-5, 1-1) settles at 1-1 crossing wire....was it worth the effort?

[onefast99]

I understand our beloved racing industry is not concerned with advancing itself for the good of racing in any capacity, I understand that. Look at yesterday's cards at Santa Anita and Gulfstream Park, beautiful cards in their own rites, but unless I'm Ollie the goalie, standing on my head maneuvering through the technical roadblocks, I'm not able to watch the magnificence (normally rendered clear TV-monitor). I can rant on and on ad infinitum but why, I still love the sport, but now I’ve become a bit more discriminating in when and how much I play; a reverse reciprocal (sounds nice) of how I feel my dollars are respected. Perhaps because of our economic situation, perhaps I'm just tired of obvious disrespect to players, whatever it is it has caused me to step back and reflect. Yeah vouchers help but when a scratched entry horse is effects a race but rules say he doesn’t, or a foul is not a foul when it is a foul or vice-versa (kind reminds me of why I don’t watch basketball…crab dribble? Or when baseball nearly lost me with the wide strike zone..Where did that one come from?) Anyway, today at Aqu race 5, Pat's Dilemma clicks 3 times during running of the race (3-2, 6-5, 1-1) settles at 1-1 crossing wire....was it worth the effort?
Maybe its those dreaded sun spots, HRTV is losing the NY signal a lot today.:eek:

[BUD]

My friend everything you say is valid----BTW I am working my @$5 off with Direct to ad HRTV---It really does not look good unless others and possibly names add to the effort---------I have people-family and nice folks who know me not calling Direct-----They made their email scarce when I stated bugging them to add HRTV-----------They give no reasons why they have Cindy's Secret---Damn I wish I knew!!----But when pressed to add one of us---They disparage horse racing------I even emailed RFD to do human interest stories on t Breds---Them they are open to it----They already do it with the trotters...

Be WELL Ash..

[asH]

lol thanks Bud...


Maybe I should thank my stars it wasnt an 8 furlong race :D

[ezrabrooks]

lol thanks Bud...


Maybe I should thank my stars it wasnt an 8 furlong race :D

10F...you might have owed them money..

Ez

[asH]

:lol: excellent

[classhandicapper]

I noticed the same thing.

One thing I can tell you is that the horse was approximately even money at EHorse Exchange. Basically, you could book bets on the horse at even money at the ExChange and bet the horse at 3-2 at the track. Almost invariably, when I see a situation like that these days, all the available money at the ExChange disappears and the horse drops in odds at the track on the last flash. So it did not shock me that the horse went from 3-2 to 6-5. However the drop from, 6-5 to 1-1 at the end of the race was ridiculous. The thing is, it would be more suspicious if the horse opened up a big lead early and then dropped. I think it was just a matter of players betting the horse late and perhaps some arbitrage money coming in at the very last second. In any event, it's ridiculous to have to deal with this sort of thing. Either the pools have to close a minute or so before they are off or we need to switch to all ExChange betting so you know what odds you are getting.

[asH]

I agree, an exchange of some sort is best..at least you know what’s coming before you bend... it wont feel like you're being screwed.

[The Bit]

I noticed this also. Why fix it when the customer has no recourse?

[the little guy]

Just to be clear, on the feed from the racetrack, Pat's Dilemma is 6:5 the first time his number comes up, which is just after the gate opens, and drops to even money during the race. The actual odds were $1.15 to 1 so there was not much fluctuation. Now, I don't disagree that we should get to the point that odds don't change during the race, but how many people wouldn't have booked this particular horse at even money as he was backing up on the turn? There was hardly any chicanery ( and I realize this wasn't implied in the thread ) as his odds dropped as his chances of winning appeared to be lessening.

[samyn on the green]

How about that Undocumented on the 28th of December race 9? 22-1 at 1 MTP, 25-1 in the gate and 32-1 as he crosses the wire. I bet the people canceling their bets as he was last on the turn were somewhat disappointed when he scored and paid $66.

[The Bit]

You know, I was going to post something very similiar to what Samyn On The Green posted. I bet Allamerican Fargo today at the Meadowlands. 10-1 behind the car, pays $25.20 or so. So yes, it goes both ways. Bottom line, it shouldn't. It doesn't look good.

[asH]

These fluctuations in odds are caused by the commingling of pools throughout the country (at least we believe this to be true for the most part;) ). As one watches ones odd dissipate during the running of a race is not a good feeling, granted, the horse should have been even money initially… it just takes the wind out of the sails; besides I may have played differently.

[phatbastard]

it seems if you are betting a horse the program players are on you lose value, but if your horse is not included in the syndicate dutching of races, profits explode!!!!!!! as a confirmed bomb player i have had unreal flucuations in my favor, and i like it just fine....

when they closed windows a minute before actual post, countless numbers of sharps were shut out, and the din could be heard coast to coast..

people just love to bitch, it is now national pastime

[DeanT]

I don't think this is a whine; it is a real concern for horseplayers. The fact that a horse you play that you think has a 33% chance at 5-2, who drops to 8-5 during the running of the race, is a threat to the very essence of handicapping itself. In fact, no consumer of any good would stand for it. I went to buy an IPOD awhile back and when I picked it up in the electronics section the price did not change when I got to the cashier.

Racing leaders seem either unwilling or unable to address this very real issue. Frank Layden's quip comes to mind. Are they ignorant or apathetic? One might be led to believe that they don't know or they don't care.

[asH]

phat,
I think you would agree as a confirmed bomb player that the larger the odds of your chosen horse in a particular race the greater the coverage you have in varied bets without losing the integrity of your investment. As odds of your chosen horse drops the narrower the number of choices to drops. Following this logic in your example, if your chosen horse leaves out the gate at 5-1 and finishes at 10-1 at the wire you too have lost an opportunity. It works both ways




if you really really think about it you may come to agree that this is a disservice to players.

[phatbastard]

well, closing windows early didn't work, what would you suggest?

i know the point, that people are betting after the break....i don' t agree, though there could be and have been times it did occur. if you believe, i mean really believe this is the case as a regular thing, you are nuts to play in a fixed game

[cj]

well, closing windows early didn't work, what would you suggest?

i know the point, that people are betting after the break....i don' t agree, though there could be and have been times it did occur. if you believe, i mean really believe this is the case as a regular thing, you are nuts to play in a fixed game

How did it not work? Do you mean because a few people too stupid to figure out to bet earlier were shut out?

It didn't work because tracks valued a little lost handle more than the integrity of the sport. Had they stuck it out a few months, it would have become standard. Clearly, there has been betting after the bell. It has been admitted to several times in recent months, only when discovered by others of course, and included at least one instance where people were betting AFTER THE RACE WAS OVER!

[phatbastard]

being a ''daily '' at my venue, i heard not one complaint when they reverted to old way after the early closing attempt

i'm all for closing windows early, but what do you think a consensus opinion would be???

[cj]

You are hearing them now. A lot of people want the windows closed. A lot of those who are against this don't understand the issues. Many people objected to having to wear seat belts or driving only when sober, but it was made law anyway.

[melman]

Cj---Not sure if you remember the now famous Yonkers incident with machines still taking bets two minutes AFTER the race was over. :) Think that was about a year or so ago. The really funny part of that was after the inquiry was made it was discovered that the majority of tickets sold in the time period AFTER the race was over and before the machines were finally locked were losing tickets. :jump:

Count me as one who is all in favor of locking the machines and no bets accepted from one minute to post. I believe it would be very good for the business of racing to have the "final odds" on display before the race starts. If that means if a longer time before post so be it. And BTW it's NOT something that affects me personally as most of the horses I bet go up in odds at the end. Of course it's rare for me to bet the favorite or even the second pick.

[cj]

I didn't hear about the Yonkers one, or don't remember it. The one I was referring to occurred on a Philly Park race. Most of the tickets were winners as only a few figured it out.

I am like you in that I don't bet chalk horses. But I know the perception is bad when odds start changing like crazy after the race begins, sometimes after it finishes!

[The Bit]

When the Philly Park Turf Clubs used the older model "Tiny Tim" machines, if you paid close attention, you could usually get a bet or two in after a race had started a few times a week. I made a post about it on here at some point or another.

[The Bit]

Here it is:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44468&highlight=philly+turf+clubs

[Pace Cap'n]

Bettors were also unhappy about being unable to change or cancel their tickets in the event of a gate scratch or a fractious horse. Another problem was in determining "one minute to post". At FG, that's like ten minutes to post.

[cj]

Tracks are responsible for getting races off on time. Gate scratches could easily be worked. Just reopen the betting for a short time. The key is that all the money is in the pools and odds final before the gate opens.

Gate problems are an issue, but such is life. No solution is perfect, but the current way of doing things has to be improved upon if the game is going to survive.

[slew101]

I've e-mailed directv about HRTV as well. I get the standard response: "we don't offer it and have no plans to offer it."

Not as big a deal this year since I can get the races live on twinspires.com.

My friend everything you say is valid----BTW I am working my @$5 off with Direct to ad HRTV---It really does not look good unless others and possibly names add to the effort---------I have people-family and nice folks who know me not calling Direct-----They made their email scarce when I stated bugging them to add HRTV-----------They give no reasons why they have Cindy's Secret---Damn I wish I knew!!----But when pressed to add one of us---They disparage horse racing------I even emailed RFD to do human interest stories on t Breds---Them they are open to it----They already do it with the trotters...

Be WELL Ash..

[The Hawk]

I've e-mailed directv about HRTV as well. I get the standard response: "we don't offer it and have no plans to offer it."

Not as big a deal this year since I can get the races live on twinspires.com.

If you can get it in your area, Verizon FIOS has both TVG and HRTV.