NFL Playoffs , Jan. 18 [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

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Marshall Bennett

01-16-2009, 11:02 AM

Arizona ( +4 )

Baltimore ( +6 )

cj's dad

01-16-2009, 12:27 PM

I can understand the logic of the Ravens being a +6, but not the Cardinals being a +4.

I believe both dogs are good straight money line bets; and a money line parley.

BetHorses!

01-16-2009, 01:05 PM

I made both Favs higher, not sure what i'm doing. I hate going with chalk.

BetHorses!

01-16-2009, 01:43 PM

Let me attempt to guess what the Super Bowl line will be before these games are played:

Steelers 1 Eagles

Steelers 11 Cards

Eagles 4 Ravens

Ravens 6 Cards

cj's dad

01-16-2009, 07:03 PM

Let me attempt to guess what the Super Bowl line will be before these games are played:

Steelers 1 Eagles

Steelers 11 Cards

Eagles 4 Ravens

Ravens 6 Cards

Surely you jest !!

BetHorses!

01-16-2009, 08:40 PM

Surely you jest !!

What do you think it would be?

Cash_McCool

01-16-2009, 09:09 PM

Let me attempt to guess what the Super Bowl line will be before these games are played:

Steelers 1 Eagles

Steelers 11 Cards

Eagles 4 Ravens

Ravens 6 Cards

Some of these seem off a bit:

Steelers would be at least a 4 pt fav vs the Eagles

I think you're right in the ballpark on Steelers vs. Cards

Eagle vs. Ravens would be a pickem, or slight Ravens favored

I think you're right in the ballpark on Ravens vs. Cards, maybe a little lower

BetHorses!

01-16-2009, 10:33 PM

Some of these seem off a bit:

Steelers would be at least a 4 pt fav vs the Eagles

I think you're right in the ballpark on Steelers vs. Cards

Eagle vs. Ravens would be a pickem, or slight Ravens favored

I think you're right in the ballpark on Ravens vs. Cards, maybe a little lower

So you just have a lower opinion of the Eagles, which is fair.

Now I may be wrong about what the line is and we will find out on Sunday Night, but if Eagles- Ravens were pick and they could be, I would feel an enormus edge and would bet Eagles at Pick accordingly.

cj's dad

01-17-2009, 11:40 AM

So you just have a lower opinion of the Eagles, which is fair.

Now I may be wrong about what the line is and we will find out on Sunday Night, but if Eagles- Ravens were pick and they could be, I would feel an enormus edge and would bet Eagles at Pick accordingly.

The Ravens buried the Eagles in Baltimore and that game led to McNabbs benching.

At best the Eagles are +1 vs Ravens in SB - JMO

melman

01-17-2009, 12:11 PM

cj's dad----That's Eagles with an "s" not an "a". :) Believe me I have taken my share of "flak" for not spelling correctly on some of my posts. :jump:

The Eagles crushed the Cards on Turkey Day by over 20 yet the line is only 4 part of it being this game is in Arizona. The other part being the Cards have played much better the last two weeks.

It's not a good idea to set a point spread based on a team's "worst" game or games the same as not going with there "best" games. I'm rooting for an all Pennsylvania Super Bowl but would be glad to see a Eagles/Ravens SB. :) It would be ironic for McNabb to face the Ravens in the SB as his two worst games of the year were the ones with the Bengals and Ravens.

Two things the NFL should be very happy with this season is the storyline of two great young QB's coming into the league. Very impressed with both Ryan and Flacco. BTW Joe Flacco is a local guy with a big South Jersey following and Matt Ryan is from Penn Charter here in our area. Guess we have become the "breeding ground" of great young QB's. :)

cj's dad

01-18-2009, 10:31 AM

BetHorses!

01-18-2009, 10:55 AM

3-0 last week
30-27-2 season to date

Was the Cards win at Carolina a fluke? Any team that turns the ball over 6 times will lose. On the other hand, Arizona does play really well at home and Philly just beat the frontrunners and now must travel and play a team they previously blewout, tough task.....Pass and will play the total

Eagle/Cards - OVER 47

Another tough game. I made Pitt higher but not laying 6 when I missed -5

Steel/Ravens UNDER 34

Good Luck

BetHorses!

01-18-2009, 10:03 PM

#39 -Daren Stone --- Way to wake up the crowd and be solely responsible for taking away all the hard work and heart your team displayed today by making one of the dumbest penalties i've ever seen.

ldiatone

01-18-2009, 10:29 PM

I can understand the logic of the Ravens being a +6, but not the Cardinals being a +4.

I believe both dogs are good straight money line bets; and a money line

parley.

dear mr. cj etc i grew up and so did the PITTBURGH STEELERS as the PITTSBURG STEELERS BEAT THE ravens 3 games in one year and are going to the SUPER BOWL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UazJ0d-KmJU

01-18-2009, 10:56 PM

Nice job by the Steelers, but that guy that hit Willis should be suspended for several games. It was a total cheap shot.

Pace Cap'n

01-18-2009, 11:05 PM

#39 -Daren Stone --- Way to wake up the crowd and be solely responsible for taking away all the hard work and heart your team displayed today by making one of the dumbest penalties i've ever seen.

I missed that play--what happened?

BillW

01-18-2009, 11:09 PM

Nice job by the Steelers, but that guy that hit Willis should be suspended for several games. It was a total cheap shot.

Cheap shot :confused: He was carrying the ball!

01-18-2009, 11:14 PM

It was as clear a helmet to helmet shot as you will ever see. There is no reason to hit someone that way in football.

BillW

01-18-2009, 11:17 PM

There is no hermet to helmet rule in making a tackle on a runner. It happens all the time.

01-18-2009, 11:20 PM

I'm not sure that is correct, but even if it is, there is no call for hitting someone that way.

01-18-2009, 11:22 PM

Not true, there have been many fines issued for players initiating helmet to helmet contact, most on players WITH THE FOOTBALL.

BillW

01-18-2009, 11:26 PM

Not true, there have been many fines issued for players initiating helmet to helmet contact, most on players WITH THE FOOTBALL.

Yes, the quarterback.

01-18-2009, 11:30 PM

Not true Bill. Hits against Anquan Boldin and Julius Jones, helmet to helmet, both resulted in fines and suspensions this year. Do they play quarterback? I found those after about 15 seconds on Google, surely there are many more.

I understand you are a Steelers fan, but there is no excuse for that hit. It is not only dangerous to the player he hits, but to himself as well.

ps...I'm not a Ravens fan, FYI, has nothing to do with my opinion.

Pace Cap'n

01-18-2009, 11:52 PM

The NFL has told its officiating crews to start ejecting players for flagrant helmet-to-helmet hits. The new policy was outlined Saturday in a memo from supervisor of officials Mike Pereira, which was obtained by the Associated Press. It followed two fines last weekend for what the officiating department had determined were hits against players in defenseless positions.

One fine was against Washington Redskins safety LaRon Landry (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=4178), who will forfeit a game check of $16,764 for a helmet-to-helmet hit on New York Jets quarterback Kellen Clemens (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=3688). The other was against Philadelphia defensive tackle LeJuan Ramsey, who was fined his game check of $21,176 for spearing Dallas' Julius Jones (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=2651).

Two weeks ago, San Diego cornerback Drayton Florence (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=631) was fined $15,000 for a helmet-to-helmet hit that gave Houston quarterback Matt Schaub (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=16) a concussion.

"Officials will be reminded this week to pay strict attention to these rules and disqualify the fouling player if the action is judged to be flagrant," Pereira wrote in the memo sent to the 32 NFL teams. "Actions that involve flagrant helmet to helmet contact are the likely acts that will include disqualification. Our commissioner and this office remain very focused on the safety of our players."

www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-11-10-helmet-to-helmet_N.h (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-11-10-helmet-to-helmet_N.h)

Apparently it is a judgment call revolving around "flagrant".

BillW

01-18-2009, 11:53 PM

Actually I wasn't aware that the NFL was doing this. Those two hits were spearing hits BTW. Clark went into him with his shoulder and they contacted helmets - I stand by my original opinion - clean hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d3R5aVR4K0

ralph_the_cat

01-19-2009, 12:41 AM

that call on that catch down at the inch yard line by holmes in the first half was a joke... kid put 2 feet down taking maybe 3 or 4 steps, dove for the goal line, and when the ball hit the ground it came lose... what a joke... should have been first and inches... they treated the call as if the player never gained control before the ball hit the ground... he took 3 steps and dove... thats considered a "football" move... refs were terrible... the next play, the non-call after that on holmes was a joke too... the roughing the punter almost made up for it... :)

Robert Fischer

01-19-2009, 12:42 AM

it's gotten really bad this year

Dawkins for the eagles seemingly does it 1/4 of his tackles. I think Hightower for the Cardinals lost about 40 IQ points on that final touchdown drive tonight.

The hit from clark on mcgahe was bad as well.

I remember the first steelers browns game this year, and the browns were doing it a lot. The next steelers game (i forget who they played) the steelers seemed to have picked it up and speared a guy in the helmet on a kick or punt return.

it's tough, because yes helmet to helmet will occasional happen as a result of a last second move from the ball carrier... but these guys really seem to be spearing intentionally with the helmet. Some of these players like Dawkins it's practically a "signature move"

Injuries are part of the game and I love a big hit, but i'm not a fan of leading with the helmet.

DanG

01-19-2009, 08:52 AM

Clark went into him with his shoulder and they contacted helmets - I stand by my original opinion - clean hit.

Agreed Bill. :ThmbUp:

McGahee lowered his head right before contact. Slow motion is the biggest disservice to a sport that is played full speed. Great hit with unfortunate results.

BTW: Watching the line play of Baltimore’s tackle Ngata and Hampton for the Steelers was tremendous football. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

BetHorses!

01-19-2009, 09:15 AM

I missed that play--what happened?

Everyone missed it cause they went to commercial. When they came back they showed the replay.

Ravens down 2 with about 4 minutes left and all the mo, just returned the punt to their own 40. During the punt coverage on the Ravens sideline Stone threw the guy to the ground while they were both WAY out of bounds. 15 yards from the spot of foul which gave Ravens ball back at own 14. IMO that play changed everything, remember Ravens only needed a field goal, crowd was dead and they had excellent field position.

ldiatone

01-19-2009, 09:25 AM

It was as clear a helmet to helmet shot as you will ever see. There is no reason to hit someone that way in football.
only applys to the QB for a flag. and no flag was thrown.

01-19-2009, 10:09 AM

only applys to the QB for a flag...

Not true.

ldiatone

01-19-2009, 10:25 AM

Pace Cap'n

01-19-2009, 01:19 PM

only applys to the QB for a flag. and no flag was thrown.

Please see post #24.

Bet Horses, thanks for the explanation. I watched the return, flipped the channel and came back to see them on the 14. I could not imagine what kind of penalty caused that. What a Bozo!

SAL

01-19-2009, 03:17 PM

After seeing the replay from a few angles, I believe that Clark turned his body to lead with his shoulder, not his helmet. Yes, their helmets did collide, but I don't think Clark should be fined for leading with his helmet. The hit was clean IMHO.

I don't think Clark should be fined, but there is a great uproar about the hit and I imagine he will be.

01-19-2009, 03:32 PM

You tackle by launching yourself with your shoulder or head and aiming at the lowest the neck?

SAL

01-19-2009, 05:05 PM

You tackle by launching yourself with your shoulder or head and aiming at the lowest the neck?

I honestly don't believe he was "aiming" for his head or his neck. A slow mo replay shows he turns his body slightly to lead with his shoulder. He might of hit him high because he was so close to the receiver when he started to move for the tackle. I don't think it was his intention to spear the receiver or lead with his helmet. It's just unfortunate the way it all came out

Pace Cap'n

01-19-2009, 05:23 PM

There was a similar play in the Cardinal's game, with Hightower running up the middle, cleared the line, and BAM, right into the l.b., except they hit shoulder to shoulder. The backer went low to tackle him, the RB went low to put a hit on him, ala Payton. The announcers commented "It's just a matter of who can get the lowest.".

I think what happened here was they were both trying to go low and just had an unfortunate collision of the helmets. It is only a penalty if it is flagrant.

Hank

01-19-2009, 05:41 PM

Agreed Bill. :ThmbUp:

McGahee lowered his head right before contact. Slow motion is the biggest disservice to a sport that is played full speed. Great hit with unfortunate results.

BTW: Watching the line play of Baltimore’s tackle Ngata and Hampton for the Steelers was tremendous football. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

A close but clean hit,the rule in question applies to a "defenseless" receiver or a QB, McGahee saw him coming a split second before impact making the hit clean....barely.

ezrabrooks

01-22-2009, 08:55 AM

A close but clean hit,the rule in question applies to a "defenseless" receiver or a QB, McGahee saw him coming a split second before impact making the hit clean....barely.

That's the way I understood the rule, as players go helmet to helmet all the time. How did the NFL treat the McGahee hit...any fine?

Ez

cj's dad

01-22-2009, 08:02 PM

#1

Get a life

Robert Fischer

01-23-2009, 08:02 AM

there is no rule against helmet-to-helmet contact down field. Obviously the ball carrier can duck or juke and an intended shoulder blow becomes unintended helmet to helmet.

However there is IMO an existing problem.
The helmet-to-helmet spear tackle has become a go to move for many players. It happens far to often as an intentional blow. Certain players (eagles Brian Dawkins comes to mind as one of the most flagrant) practically have adopted the helmet spear as their "signature move"!
Hey it's a great tackle. You can knock the other teams best running back out of the game for a few plays, it often leads to fumbles and it is a highlight level big hit that gives your defense momentum.
However we have humans with brains and spinal cords running around entertaining us out there. At some point the league needs to make a decision.
Fines and suspensions. If a few "poor souls" are wrongly fined and/suspended for accidental helmet-spears it is still worth it. A ball carrier's sudden move before impact could clearly work in the offenders defense if such a sudden move occurred and "caused" the accidental head spear.

I love to see a guy flattened out there, and I don't even mind a broken bone now and then. Just not a fan of brain/spinal cord injuries sending players into the fetal position with concussions- or worse paralysis or death.