Plane Crash........Turn on MSNBC

[JustRalph]

in Hudson river? U.S Air Flight in the water............

[Marshall Bennett]

Thank the Lord everyone got off safely . Looks more like a riverboat than an airliner .

[Bubba X]

It is amazing, at least from the early reporting, that there appear to be no life threatening injuries. Utterly remarkable.

[prospector]

Turn on MSNBC?

never happen...its also on fox

[riskman]

Turn on MSNBC?

never happen...its also on fox


My daughter Kathryn works in Jersey City. She called and told me she could see the aircraft in the river from her office right after it went down. A ferry boat was the first to arrive---the passengers were standing on the wings. Latest, everyone survived--Thank God. Monumental and efficient effort.

[JustRalph]

check out the pilots resume..........

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0115093hero1.html


they had the right guy flying............

[Rookies]

Ralph... there is always a lot of discussion about just "who" qualifies as a hero, as the currency of these terms is so downgraded today (including many moron politicians, sports athletes and businessmen).

MAKE NO MISTAKE !

The quick thinking brilliance of this guy hits the old standard ! Imagine, deciding in an instant that you are best to act like a hydroplane and hit the Hudson AND ensure that all passengers get off in an orderly manner...

before YOU do !!

Kudos !

[Marshall Bennett]

Just a footnote to the heroric efforts of this pilot , he didn't depart until he made a pass through the aircraft , knowing all got off safely before his ship went down . A hero indeed !! :ThmbUp:

[cj's dad]

Does anyone have any doubt after this heroic effort by all involved that Americans are the most resourceful, innovative, resilient people in the entire world.

OK- I'm prejudiced - sorry, can't help it.

[Rookies]

There are heroes EVERYWHERE CJ's Dad- sometimes in the most unlikely of circumstances.

One of them had his finest hours almost 28 years ago aiding and abetting Americans in peril of their lives.

If you don't know, you might want to Google Canadian Ken Taylor.

[highnote]

I was working about 2 long blocks from the Hudson at 33rd and 9th. We got out of work at 4pm. I could see the water from teh 6th floor, but I think the plane had already drifted below 33rd street.

Not sure what time it hit the water, but by the time I got to my car and drove around the block by about 4:15 I think it had already drifted down to the financial district. At least that's what it sounded like on the radio. Must have been a strong current.

I didn't see the plane in the water, but apparantly it went down around 45th street?

Lots of ambulances, firetrucks and police cars.

The most impressive thing was how well traffic was moving on the avenues. I thought for sure there would be hours of traffic jams. It was a normal commute except for the sirens and police directing traffic at every block everywhere. I'll give them credit, they kept it moving.

[Tom]

I hope to hell the first thing everyone did when they got ashore was buy a
LOTTO ticket!;)

Man, that pilot.....what can you say? Hero for sure.

Must have been a sickening sight for many NYers, especially those on the bridge to see a huge airliner that low again......

Kudos to the ferry boats for their quick response, too. Can you imaging what it was like standing on that wing, in the middle of a river, freezing temperatures, while you plane is sinking??????

[Bobzilla]

Ralph... there is always a lot of discussion about just "who" qualifies as a hero, as the currency of these terms is so downgraded today (including many moron politicians, sports athletes and businessmen).

MAKE NO MISTAKE !

The quick thinking brilliance of this guy hits the old standard ! Imagine, deciding in an instant that you are best to act like a hydroplane and hit the Hudson AND ensure that all passengers get off in an orderly manner...

before YOU do !!

Kudos !


Very well said and I couldn't agree more.

Not only was the execution of ditching the plane on the river, a process so delicate in the most extreme expression of the word, done to perfection or something pretty close to it, the quick presence of mind to realize that he lacked the altitude to circle around or to make it to Teterboro and that the Hudson was his only true option at that moment was what saved the lives of crew and passengers more than anything. It is said "Altitude is a Pilot's Best Friend". My understanding at this time is that 3,000 feet is the most he was able to get from the brief time of powered climbout he had so the Pilot's options would have been extremely limited. I don't know if he had power left sufficient to extend the flaps into a soft landing position but they would have at least still been extended to their rotation/climbout position, probably. Perhaps he knew, or strongly suspected, that given altitude, distance and winds aloft, that if he had tried for Teterboro he would have fallen short and in the process imperiled many on the ground as well as those on the aircraft. By instict pilots want to land on an airstrip if at all possible; but only through this crew's experience and professionalism were they were able to override the probable temptation to go for Teterboro and try their luck and skill on the river instead. With the odds monumentally against their own survival and with limited resourses available with which to work they made every decision the right one and with such little time to think about each one. By the true standards of heroism that were better understood during previous eras, yesterday's actions by the US Air crew were truly heroic. I hope the President-Elect mentions and honors them during his first speech as President next week. Ronald Reagan honored Lenny Skutnick after the latter dove into the icy Potomac to save a woman who was on board the ill-fated Florida Airlines crash in January 1982.

[JustRalph]

I will never forget Lenny Skutnick, watching that live on TV was something else..........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5nTuEzMpzo

[boomman]

I will never forget Lenny Skutnick, watching that live on TV was something else..........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5nTuEzMpzo

It's always inspiring to see people saving other people's lives....We had a serious automobile accident down the street from me in Southwest Florida a few years ago, and people were running from everywhere to help, and I'm quite sure it was instrumental in those folks surviving. The entire crew of the US Airways flight are heroes, ESPECIALLY the pilots for somehow landing that plane on the Hudson, and watching the tape again of Lenny saving that lady's life was incredible! Thanks for sharing Ralph!

Boomer

[JustRalph]

The way they are hailing this pilot on the Network News today, I hope they don't find out he screwed something up..........crossing my fingers..........

Theatre of the Absurd at DU,,,....I guess the Union landed the plane.........not the pilot...........,,check this out

> This Miracle Brought to You by America’s Unions
> By: emptywheel Friday January 16, 2009 5:34 am
>
> They're calling it a miracle--the successful landing of a US Airways jet in the Hudson and subsequent rescue of all 155 passengers. They're detailing the heroism of all involved, starting with the pilot and including cabin crew, ferry crews, and first responders. What they're not telling you is that just about every single one of these heros is a union member.>
> There's the pilot:
>
> What might have been a catastrophe in New York — one that evoked the feel if not the scale of the Sept. 11 attack — was averted by a pilot’s quick thinking and deft maneuvers,
>
> On board, the pilot, Chesley B. Sullenberger III, 57, unable to get back to La Guardia, had made a command decision to avoid densely populated areas and try for the Hudson,
>
> When all were out, the pilot walked up and down the aisle twice to make sure the plane was empty, officials said.
>
> Sullenberger is a former national committee member and the former safety chairman for the Airline Pilots Association and now represented by US Airline Pilots Association. He--and his union--have fought to ensure pilots get the kind of safety training to pull off what he did yesterday.
>
> Then there are the flight attendants:
>
> One passenger, Elizabeth McHugh, 64, of Charlotte, seated on the aisle near the rear, said flight attendants shouted more instructions: feet flat on the floor, heads down, cover your heads.
>
> They are members of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA. Yesterday's accident should remind all of us that flight attendants are first and foremost safety professionals--they should not be treated like cocktail waitresses.
>
> There are the air traffic controllers:
>
> The pilot radioed air traffic controllers on Long Island that his plane had sustained a “double bird strike.”
>
> They're represented by the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. Someday, they'll rename National Airport for the work these men and women do to keep us safe in the air.
>
> There are the ferry crews:
>
> As the first ferry nudged up alongside, witnesses said, some passengers were able to leap onto the decks. Others were helped aboard by ferry crews.
>
> They're represented by the Seafarers International Union. They provide safety training to their members so they're prepared for events like yesterday's accident.
>
> There are the cops and firemen:
>
> Helicopters brought wet-suited police divers, who dropped into the water to help with the rescues.
>
> They're represented by the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association and the Uniformed Firefighters Association. They're the men and women who performed so heroically on 9/11--and they've been fighting to make sure first responders get the equipment to do this kind of thing.
>
> Bob Corker and Richard Shelby like to claim that union labor is a failed business model.
>
> But I haven't heard much about Bob Corker and Richard Shelby saving 155 people's lives.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4841535

[highnote]

As I wrote from what I saw first hand, I was impressed by the level of organization from all involved.

[ddog]

seems the birds that struck the plane are not the only "birds" in this deal :lol:


the question is , if not in the union would he have been "retired" :rolleyes: to be replaced by a 30 something dipshit from China or somewhere flying for 25K a year?

You betcha ya!


maybe Joe da Pluma could second seat!

[Tom]

As I wrote from what I saw first hand, I was impressed by the level of organization from all involved.

Including the plane passengers, unrepresented, and the passengers on the ferries who, also unrepresented, jumped into action with no leadership and help with the rescue.

And, since they brought up 9-11, it was a UNION boy who failed to stop the one death pilot crew at security, BOSTON security, as seen on tape. Clearly too lazy to do his job. A situation with union boys I have seen repeatedly over the years.

[JustRalph]

I just heard that the Union is filing a grievance against the airline........the pilot wasn't qualifed to pilot a boat on the Hudson............and they want new rules and extra overtime pay for the time he spent as a Sea Captain. :bang:

[Tom]

USAIR just announced that they will give all the passengers double ff miles for that trip......6 miles total!!!!!

[Marshall Bennett]

PETA is pissed because of what happened to the birds . :lol:

[dutchboy]

Amusing to read that global warming caused the plane to crash. Apparently the migratory patterns of the geese and other birds has changed as a result of global warming.

[dutchboy]

PETA is pissed because of what happened to the birds . :lol:

Maybe 30 minutes ago someone called in to a local radio station to repeat a conversation he had with his wife last night. He was telling his wife about the crash and the how no one was killed and what a great job the pilot did.

The wife only reply was to ask "are the birds ok"

[Rookies]

And, since they brought up 9-11, it was a UNION boy who failed to stop the one death pilot crew at security, BOSTON security, as seen on tape. Clearly too lazy to do his job. A situation with union boys I have seen repeatedly over the years.

And since YOU'VE brought it up Tom...

I've witnessed time and again situation with managments I've encountered in 30 years of work with the private sector, is that so few turn into Gates/ Jobs; so many couldn't find their ass with their own hands, about their own biz !(This doesn't even count the hundreds of Joe the Plumb Yours wannabees, who couldn't speak 5 continuous coherent sentences or write anything with erudition.)

A few persons in both private & public sectors are brilliant; and many in both just can't cut it !

[PaceAdvantage]

I find it interesting the DU post doesn't mention the pilot's military training...

[Tom]

..... so many couldn't find their ass with their own hands, about their own biz !(This doesn't even count the hundreds of Joe the Plumb Yours wannabees, who couldn't speak 5 continuous coherent sentences or write anything with erudition.)

A few persons in both private & public sectors are brilliant; and many in both just can't cut it !

Wow, you got a translation for that? :D Try to be more eruditious.

[boxcar]

I find it interesting the DU post doesn't mention the pilot's military training...

Bingo! An ex-fighter pilot, at that. The military surely helped build this hero's character.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Holy Cow, good thing Dingy Harry wasn't flying it.....

[jballscalls]

Bingo! An ex-fighter pilot, at that. The military surely helped build this hero's character.

Boxcar

I thought most airline pilots were retired Military pilots? either way, kudos to the pilot on the safe landing and his military service!

[headhawg]

I thought most airline pilots were retired Military pilotsYes. I think that's because one needs mega flight hours to qualify for a commercial pilot's license. It would be way too expensive for most people to get to that level without military flight hours.

But I think the key here might be that he was a fighter pilot, not some schlub flying cargo transports. You know, the "Right Stuff" kind of thing....

[JustRalph]

Yes. I think that's because one needs mega flight hours to qualify for a commercial pilot's license. It would be way too expensive for most people to get to that level without military flight hours.

But I think the key here might be that he was a fighter pilot, not some schlub flying cargo transports. You know, the "Right Stuff" kind of thing....

He is an Air Force Academy Grad.

It would be way too expensive for most people to get to that level without military flight hours.
Nope. 28-35k in today's environment. In the midwest cheaper depending on what plane you fly. If you want to fly the bigger plane add about 20 bucks an hour X 250

Commercial Pilot:250 Hours 50 Cross Country 10 Instrument 8 Night hours.

Most are not fighter pilots, and most pay their own way through the training. Some through college programs, etc. Your Local Small- Medium Airport probably has an instructor for this.

ATP: Airline Transport Pilot
What the Captains Always have;
Only Commercial Pilots can upgrade to Airline Transport Pilot. 1500 Hours 500 Cross Country 75 Instrument 100 night. * Most get these hours while flying for a living somewhere in the lower ranks (Freight, Checks etc) But most of these guys far exceed these flight hours. After being a Commercial Pilot for 5 years or so, they add up pretty fast. Not uncommon to hear about 20 yr commercial pilots with 20k hours.

Here is an example site for Ratings, from a School in the SF Bay area.........

http://www.pilotratings.com/index.html

Btw, He flew F-4's in the Air Force. Perfect Training for his heroics on the Hudson. Most Pilots who flew them call them flying Rocks............. they have the glide potential of a rock........ :lol:

[witchdoctor]

]

Btw, He flew F-4's in the Air Force. Perfect Training for his heroics on the Hudson. Most Pilots who flew them call them flying Rocks............. they have the glide potential of a rock........ :lol:

My dad was an engineer on the F4 before leaving for NASA. I thought the same thing when Sully landed that Airbus. My dad always said the F4 would glide like a rock. :ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/17/video-the-us-airways-splashdown/


You can see the splash down at 2 minute mark, Left side of the frame, from afar. Then they zoom in on the plane............ from what I can tell, it took the first ferry 3 minutes, almost exactly, to get there. Good stuff here........watch the whole thing........

at about the 4 minute mark,,,,,,,, you can see the current really take over and the plane starts floating away pretty quickly. I didn't realize it moved that much........

[Marshall Bennett]

I would assume he was operating on a backup hydraulic system to be able to perform such a landing manuver with both engines dead . If I'm not mistakened , a separate such system was installed in jets following the Sioux City disaster where the only system was severed after an engine exploded during flight . Improvements in safety over the past few decades has made air travel safer than sleeping in your bed at night .

[Tom]

Ralph, excellent video! :ThmbUp:

Unbelievable.

[JustRalph]

more vids here

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/17/usair.splash.video/index.html

The way he put this thing down.........

They need to start calling him "Silky Sullenberger"

smooooooooothhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! :lol:

[strapper]

The movie is already in the works I would imagine. Really was a miraculous landing. Thumbs up to the veteran pilot on a masterful landing.

[Nmytwenties]

I heard that a movie is being discussed. As great of an achievement it was, a superb job by the pilot, I just don't know how it would be made into a movie, it was a quick event that spanned about 10 minutes.

You would think that something could be done to design planes so that a simple bird could not bring it down. Why bother with that though when money can be spent on such pressing issues like "the earth having such a fever".

[JustRalph]

You would think that something could be done to design planes so that a simple bird could not bring it down. Why bother with that though when money can be spent on such pressing issues like "the earth having such a fever".

He was probably at about 200 knots when he hit the birds. A large Canada Goose probably weighs 12-15 pounds. Think about that Thanksgiving Turkey you have every year........... now watch this video and think about throwing that Turkey into the engine at 200 mph. Btw, this is a pretty nice video........ right up to the end where it describes the different kinds of Jet engines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1TqwAKwMuM

Btw, they have tried screens over engines and lots of other methods.........they all restrict the air flow too much.........

[Grits]

It's always inspiring to see people saving other people's lives....We had a serious automobile accident down the street from me in Southwest Florida a few years ago, and people were running from everywhere to help, and I'm quite sure it was instrumental in those folks surviving. The entire crew of the US Airways flight are heroes, ESPECIALLY the pilots for somehow landing that plane on the Hudson, and watching the tape again of Lenny saving that lady's life was incredible! Thanks for sharing Ralph!

Boomer

THIS is unusual as coincidence goes . . . . the date on this byline is JANUARY 13, 2007, a year ago, on the 25th anniversary of the Air Florida crash at (the time) National in DC. The article's about Skutnik and others who risked their lives that day, and were hailed as heroes in the rescue of the few passengers who survived.

Hopefully, the link connects.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/01/12/AR2007011202052.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/12/AR2007011202052.html)

I remember this as it was yesterday, though, I've not watched tapes of it anywhere since. Last Thursday's crash, 25 years and 2 days later is so different in conditions and circumstance. The National disaster much worse in a blinding snowstorm; these people were in the frozen waters as much as 15 minutes before help arrived.

Today, aircraft technology, emergency response, all have come a long, long, way. I'm not sure I can say the same about Presidential opportunities and invites. They remain in place, now, with Captain Sullivan's invitation to the Inauguration. That's not a bad thing, simply, an unchanging, ongoing thing.

Captain Sullivan was trained for Thursday's remarkable feat which he carried out without flaw. Lenny Skutnik, on the other hand, had no training, but for heart.

Both men will long be remembered. And, likely remain, humble.

I'd still rather live here than anywhere in the world.

[ddog]

He was probably at about 200 knots when he hit the birds. A large Canada Goose probably weighs 12-15 pounds. Think about that Thanksgiving Turkey you have every year........... now watch this video and think about throwing that Turkey into the engine at 200 mph. Btw, this is a pretty nice video........ right up to the end where it describes the different kinds of Jet engines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1TqwAKwMuM

Btw, they have tried screens over engines and lots of other methods.........they all restrict the air flow too much.........


A little something to keep an ear open for, birds don't intercept jetliners , it's the other way around.

Lots of bird abatement things are done around major airports, wonder what the backstory on this is, if there is one.

Just how many birds were there and what was the pre-fight looking like.

this kind of stuff is everyday at some airports, not the crash landing but the bird issues.

You see guys, while it's nice to throw around the hero stuff for a guy doing his job, fine and dandy, the object is not to need heroic efforts in the first place.

[Marshall Bennett]

Obviously it was a planned attack by the birds !!

[lsbets]

Obviously it was a planned attack by the birds !!

If Bush had only secured the borders, those damned geese would have stayed up in Canada. Its all Bush's fault!

[Steve 'StatMan']

Al-Quida trained geese. ;)

[Grits]

A little something to keep an ear open for, birds don't intercept jetliners , it's the other way around.

Lots of bird abatement things are done around major airports, wonder what the backstory on this is, if there is one.

Just how many birds were there and what was the pre-fight looking like.

this kind of stuff is everyday at some airports, not the crash landing but the bird issues.

You see guys, while it's nice to throw around the hero stuff for a guy doing his job, fine and dandy, the object is not to need heroic efforts in the first place.

Dog, hate it for ya, but you need to hear this. Keep both ears open 'cause birds DID intercept this one. And did it, probably flying in V formation like Canada Geese always do. And a flock can be less than a dozen, anytime.

Now about the preflight, according to the NTSB spokesperson, I'm sure you know, like us, the tower cleared 'em for takeoff. No geese hanging out, lunching and lounging on the runway. Clear path. Or so it was 'til 'bout 3K up when "said interceptors" came to their untimely demise.

In the meantime, keep this number: 1-800-BOEING.

Call 'em if you come up with an innovative prototype or concept that'd keep jet engines from eating geese at 200mph. That way we wouldn't need anymore of those heroic efforts you mentioned.

I know they'd appreciate it. And Dog, you'd be able to retire, it'd make you filthy rich!! ;)

[JustRalph]

Just a guy doing his job.........nothing to see here.....move along.............. :lol: :lol:

[highnote]

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/17/video-the-us-airways-splashdown/


You can see the splash down at 2 minute mark, Left side of the frame, from afar. Then they zoom in on the plane............ from what I can tell, it took the first ferry 3 minutes, almost exactly, to get there. Good stuff here........watch the whole thing........

at about the 4 minute mark,,,,,,,, you can see the current really take over and the plane starts floating away pretty quickly. I didn't realize it moved that much........


I didn't realize the current was that strong either. I got out of work at 3:35pm. At 3:37pm it looks like it was at the Intrepid Museum 42nd street. I should have stayed in the office. I had a clear view of the Hudson at 33rd Street and would have seen it go by. Who knew the current was so swift. By the time I got in my car at about 4:15 and turned on the radio to hear the reports, the plane was already nearing lower Manhattan.

[Tom]

Those NY Ferries did what the writers of LOST couldn't do in three seasons!