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beaucap1
01-09-2009, 12:25 PM
Lotta confusion :bang: more to look at and at a $59.00 a month subscription. How good are their pace figures? I hope everyone can give me a little feed back on are they worth the monthly fee.

Is there a way to make sense to all this.....

LottaKash
01-09-2009, 01:07 PM
Lotta confusion :bang: more to look at and at a $59.00 a month subscription. How good are their pace figures? I hope everyone can give me a little feed back on are they worth the monthly fee.

Is there a way to make sense to all this.....

Beaucap1, of which pace figures and vendor do you refer to ?

best

beaucap1
01-09-2009, 01:45 PM
Sorry, forgot to mention Trackmaster. By the way Happy Birthday :)

Ray2000
01-09-2009, 02:53 PM
beaucap1

There was a little bit of discussion here in Mid November when TM beta'd this new product.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52597


It's not something for which I'd pay $600/yr .:rolleyes:

reg $1.50/card or $400/year unlimited
plat 2.50/card or $500/year unlimited
pace 3.00/card or $600/year unlimited

LottaKash
01-09-2009, 02:53 PM
Hey Beaucap, thx for the Birfday greeting......

Recently, TM had a freebie preview of their PP's, and I was impressed to say the least....For me tho, at the current state of my handicapping craft, I really have most of all that I need to win...That is not to say that I couldn't benefit in any way by using the additional information that is offered with this new product.....It really is awesome, at least in it's intent and/or content...

For me tho, the bottom line in Harness Racing is trying to asses the "TRUTH" when trying to interpret the RUNNING LINES in conjunction with the True PACE of the Race & the True Class/ability, and this part is already there in the past performances......I think these are the true essentials, and they are my baseline, and all other information is only additive or negative and are bonus' when trying to find the top contenders in a race..

If you can master this concept correctly (form & pace) you are halfway there to success.... When you understand a good form line vs. a poor form line, you can quickly make eliminations, and get on with the next order of business, which is trying to find the horse who is in the best of form and is the fastest, and who can overcome any just about any pace scenario that may be thrown at him.....I think that after all these years, that is why I have settled into just being a spot player, as I want my horses to have it all, and there are just that many horses who do...When you have less, then the risk increases greatly, and I do not like that kind of pressure..,,And adding a whole lot of information is just not going to improve a horse's current form to any great extent

There are others who have chosen a different path to the winners circle, and they do this with scads of information, and they are not wrong, not in the least, but it is work, and I have always had an aversion to work, and my way works quite well for me....It only takes me about 5 minutes to assess the chances of most horses in most races.....Sure, I do not limit myself to that time constraint, as each race is a dandy little puzzle just waiting to be solved, and I am always on the alert for some little tidbit that I may have overlooked, that just may be the key to the race.....But still, it is work....

I usually try do my baseline homework, like just getting a feel of the upcoming races for the day/nite, and then do the final analysis on a live race by race basis as they come up......So, here lies the rub, all that wonderful information requires a lot of extra interpretation on a player's part, and for me that is not a lot of fun......

For the new player, that has learned a solid way of interpreting pace and form, these new PP's could open up a whole new world and viewpoints when trying to correctly assess the chances of all the participants to win a race...

I say if you can afford it, go for it, but the learning curve will be much higher, but I think in the long run it will be worth it.....if you can learn to correctly decipher the meaning and signifcance of this new data, man, watch out....

For me, I am in pretty good touch with all the Trainer's and Driver's, and track tendencies, and a lot of their idosyncracies, at all the tracks that I play (takes years), and that too is already in the past performances, so all the added information offered in these beautiful PPs just may cause me to hesitate a bit, and also may cause me to doubt myself, and for me, if something is working the way I want it to in the first place, why monkey with it ?...I usually have a lot of confidence in my selections and plays, and I just get un-comfy at this stage of my life when trying to add new things to an already workable thing....

Still, there are some juicy races that are just crying out for some MORE reliable info, so a borderline-in-form horse may benefit greatly by the added info and could pop at a price, and you could have it, when this hidden or obscure data is revealed to you.

I wonder how much more quickly I would've learned to be a competent and confident handicapper if this information was offered to me sooner, in my life ?....I really do...

Give it a try....it's only kash...:jump: ...I would sign up today if I could afford, perhaps at a later time.....but, I am thankful that I still do ok, anyway

Best,

Tom
01-09-2009, 03:37 PM
Hey, Lotta, Happy Birthday.
Hope you hit a big one tonight. :ThmbUp:

beaucap1
01-09-2009, 04:01 PM
You are very welcome LottaKash.....I'm getting close, I'm 61 and retired also, except for Harness racing of course.

I'm like you i am a spot player per say, except when i see a horse do something it has not done in the last 10 pace lines. The Meadowlands in the 5th race on Jan 7th. The 5 horse Jaccka Seelster N comming from Chester (same class) went to the lead out of the 5 post and kept it until the finish. Did not do that in its last 10 starts. You know they tried to win last time out at 15-1. Sure it only won by a head....but paid nicely. I guess you can call this a spot play, I think. Enjoy your B-Day

Sea Biscuit
01-09-2009, 04:56 PM
Hey Lk Tonites your nite. I hope you catch a WHOPPER.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Sea Biscuit.

LottaKash
01-09-2009, 05:03 PM
Hey All, Thanks so much for the Birfday witches.......64 Yikes....!!!!

bestest,

LottaKash
01-09-2009, 05:57 PM
You are very welcome LottaKash.....I'm getting close, I'm 61 and retired also, except for Harness racing of course.

I'm like you i am a spot player per say, except when i see a horse do something it has not done in the last 10 pace lines. The Meadowlands in the 5th race on Jan 7th. The 5 horse Jaccka Seelster N comming from Chester (same class) went to the lead out of the 5 post and kept it until the finish. Did not do that in its last 10 starts. You know they tried to win last time out at 15-1. Sure it only won by a head....but paid nicely. I guess you can call this a spot play, I think. Enjoy your B-Day

Beaucap, you are quite observant on that score....That particular circumstance is one of my Pet Angles, and one that I am always on the alert for.....It carries much weight for me......I believe that Leading a race until deep into the late stages of a race, when he hasn't shown that tendency for a good while, is always a point to be noticed and respected....That particular angle shows much about the Trainer's intentions on raceday....The same can be said for a a chronic pace-setting type horse, when the trainer or driver decide to change a pace strategy with his horse, especially when they know that he can get the lead easily enough, yet still go another route and go first over or close from the deepest part of the pack in that race....This takes on added signifcance when the last part of the the race is especially quick and the horse responds favorably and powerfully to it

best.......

Ray2000
01-14-2009, 05:13 PM
The new pace programs are free this weekend (thur, fri, sat)

http://www.trackmaster.com/cgi-bin/axprodlist.cgi?tfp


Pick a Winner:)

LottaKash
01-14-2009, 05:42 PM
The new pace programs are free this weekend (thur, fri, sat)

http://www.trackmaster.com/cgi-bin/axprodlist.cgi?tfp


Pick a Winner:)

Thx Ray for the Head's Up on this...I always seem to overlook these things, these days at least......I guess when you start getting up there, you lose a step or two and it seems lately, I am always late to the Dance........:lol:

best,

Sea Biscuit
01-14-2009, 10:33 PM
The new pace programs are free this weekend (thur, fri, sat)

http://www.trackmaster.com/cgi-bin/axprodlist.cgi?tfp


Pick a Winner:)

I downloaded the Trackmaster Woodbine program but I dont find any explanations. Where can I find them?

For instance what does Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 numbers mean. Is the higher number better or the lower? What does race style numbers signify? What is Power and what does it signify? Things like that. If they are allowing you to download these programs for free for sure the idea is to promote them for getting new customers but they are absolutely useless without detailed explanations.

As it is its all Greek to me

Sea Biscuit..

mostpost
01-15-2009, 12:36 AM
Try This
http://www.trackmaster.com/harness/demos/hpc.pdf

mostpost
01-15-2009, 12:41 AM
And this

http://www.trackmaster.com/harness/info/hpcdesc.htm

mostpost
01-15-2009, 12:48 AM
Here is their explanation of Power ratings and Speed and Class Ratings and a lot of other stuff (To use a technical term)

http://www.trackmaster.com/harness/info/ratings.htm

Sea Biscuit
01-15-2009, 01:30 AM
Here is their explanation of Power ratings and Speed and Class Ratings and a lot of other stuff (To use a technical term)

http://www.trackmaster.com/harness/info/ratings.htm

Thanks for the response Mostpost.

I must have written to the Woodbine people on six different occasions to incorporate money won by horses in their last 6 starts in their programs as it is a pain to calculate it manually for every horse in the conditioned ranks but to no avail.

They are a bunch of stiffs who refuse to budge.

Sea Biscuit.

beaucap
01-24-2009, 03:52 PM
Sea Biscuit...just wondering if you are on handicapping harness? Seen your name.....any way, that harness program Focus 2000 gives you last 6 for earnings and also driver and trainer stats for last 30 days. Don't know if you have that program but is is useful for a lot of different stats....

LottaKash
01-24-2009, 05:17 PM
Sea Biscuit...just wondering if you are on handicapping harness? Seen your name.....any way, that harness program Focus 2000 gives you last 6 for earnings and also driver and trainer stats for last 30 days. Don't know if you have that program but is is useful for a lot of different stats....

All Trackmaster programs, even the basic, offer the earnings in the last 6-starts in their past performances......

best,

beaucap
01-24-2009, 05:51 PM
i hope the sea reads your comment......that's what he is looking for..thats why you call your self LottaKash....Lotta info and always trying to Kash....have a good day.............................................

Sea Biscuit
01-25-2009, 06:44 AM
i hope the sea reads your comment......that's what he is looking for..thats why you call your self LottaKash....Lotta info and always trying to Kash....have a good day.............................................

Last night (Jan 24) at Woodbine they gave out a check for $5000 to a fan for best feed back on Woodbine.

I did'nt know such a thing existed at Woodbine otherwise I would have given them some of my feed back some of which I am sure they would not have liked to listen.

Idiots wasting their money like that instead of listening to fan problems and addressing them.

Sea Biscuit.

jeebus1083
06-01-2010, 11:00 AM
The fractional times are not always correct on the Pace PPs. I know this because I add the fractions of the horse up to compare to their final time, and sometimes, the result is a few fifths off. The reason is because it seems like the beaten lengths (1 length = 1/5th of a second), are not being rounded to the nearest whole number. For example, if a horse is beat 4 3/4 lengths, the published Trackmaster line will equate their time to be 4/5ths of a second slower than the lead, when in reality, it should be 1 full second slower than the lead, as 4 3/4 should round up to 5. I see this on HUNDREDS of lines a day when looking at the Pace PPs, and it's very inaccurate. Of course, times are not always going to be accurate anyway, as the 1/5th = 1 length is basically a yardstick measurement. Still though, Harness Eye rounds to the nearest length, and the final time in relation to the fractions are always in line with one another.