World Series of Handicapping Format.

[Bobzilla]

Can anybody tell me what the format is for the annual World Series of Handicapping at the Orleans? I know the DRF/NTRA NHC involves two days of mythical $2 WP bets with 7 mandatory races and 8 optional races each day. Last year the NHC picks were chosen from Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Fair Grounds, Tampa Bay, Oaklawn, Santa Anita and Golden Gate Fields. Is the WSH similar to this and if not, how is it different? Also, how many positions do they pay out for and what are the cash rewards?

[boomman]

Can anybody tell me what the format is for the annual World Series of Handicapping at the Orleans? I know the DRF/NTRA NHC involves two days of mythical $2 WP bets with 7 mandatory races and 8 optional races each day. Last year the NHC picks were chosen from Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Fair Grounds, Tampa Bay, Oaklawn, Santa Anita and Golden Gate Fields. Is the WSH similar to this and if not, how is it different? Also, how many positions do they pay out for and what are the cash rewards?

Bob: Looking at a flyer I received from them in the mail yesterday (as I host one of their qualifying tournaments each summer at Yavapai). The format is full track odds paid up to 19x1 for win and 9x1 for place, so maximum mutuel paid on any one horse for tournament purposes will be $40 win and $20 to place. Only $20 mythical win and place wagering, no show wagering. Each day (3 days) will require 11 $20 win and place wagers being made, and more than one horse per race can be used. Point totals accumulate for 3 days. Here's the prize pool based on 750 entrants: (which I believe they have reached this number of entries over the past few years, I know when I went a couple of years back they had 836)

1st Place: $337,500
2nd Place $60,000
3rd Place $52,500
4th Place: $37,500
5th Place: $22,500
6th through 10th Place: $7500 each
11th through 20th Place: $3750 each
21st through 30th: $1,875 each
31st through 80th: $1,125 each

$90,000 in Daily Prizes will also be awarded.

We as players were asked our opinion on format and pay-out a few years ago and they have gone from win only wagering to win and place and are now paying 80 spots instead of 36 which was ridiculous given that many entries. IMHO the tournament is still top heavy, reduce the top prize to $250,000 (which is still a nice payday) and raise the bottom level pay-offs which will help defer more expense of going there. I believe that the more players that cash the better the tournament becomes............;)

Boomer

[Bobzilla]

Boomer, thanks for all the information. Everything I wanted to know you provided. With 33 $20 WP picks I would guess $2500 to $3000 to be the target range for an in the money showing. I agree that the distribution of winnings seems top heavy and I for one certainly would not be disapointed with 250,000 if I were to win something like this. Finishing in the top 10% deserves something better than only recovering the cost of entering given the other costs associated with participation. Thanks again.

Bob

[boomman]

Boomer, thanks for all the information. Everything I wanted to know you provided. With 33 $20 WP picks I would guess $2500 to $3000 to be the target range for an in the money showing. I agree that the distribution of winnings seems top heavy and I for one certainly would not be disapointed with 250,000 if I were to win something like this. Finishing in the top 10% deserves something better than only recovering the cost of entering given the other costs associated with participation. Thanks again.

Bob

Bob: My pleasure, and your target seems reasonable, (although I played when it was win wagering only so not entirely sure), but just keep a close eye on the leader board and that should give you a good idea soon enough of a solid "target number" to work towards. As for the prize money, Randi Muniz and Linda Ferris run the tournament, and be sure and let them know your thoughts on the pay-off return and any other concerns you have, because they DO listen to their players and your opinions will be heard...............;)

Boomer

[JimG]

A couple of things must have changed since I played in the tournament. As I recall, the first $2 of the win and place bet are paid at full track odds and the cap is applied to the remainder of the $20win and place bet.

Also, the leader board was not updated very often so really did not know where you stood. Since there are no mandatory races, you really have to shoot for long shots there.

On the positive side, the staff is very nice and experienced at running a contest. Randi Muniz and Linda Ferris are top notch.

Jim

[boomman]

A couple of things must have changed since I played in the tournament. As I recall, the first $2 of the win and place bet are paid at full track odds and the cap is applied to the remainder of the $20win and place bet.

Also, the leader board was not updated very often so really did not know where you stood. Since there are no mandatory races, you really have to shoot for long shots there.

On the positive side, the staff is very nice and experienced at running a contest. Randi Muniz and Linda Ferris are top notch.

Jim

Jim: You are absolutely right! The 1st $2 of each wager does receive full track odds, it's the remainder that has the cap. As for the leader board, it is difficult to keep it updated with so many players playing so many different races, but I thought they kept it updated enough (and the effort was certainly there) that you could get an idea of where you were at..............;)

Boomer

[Light]

Does anyone know if it is televised either live or on tape?

[JimG]

No, it has not been for the last few years. The NHC tournament gets more press and is usually carried by TVG since ESPN no longer carries it. TVG at least interviews the winner and provides updates throughout the day.

Overall, I do not think tv execs found watching people root for horses very interesting and when ESPN did televise it, there were contestants in the hunt that practically refused to appear or talk on camera.

Jim

[Jay Trotter]

Tough to find much info on the World Series.

From what I could piece together....

659 Entrants in 2011
Top Prize $296,550
Format: 3 days -- 15 plays per day -- $20 Win/Place wagers
Full Track Odds on first $2.00 Win/Place
Capped at 19/1 and 9/1 Win/Place for balance

Can anyone confirm this info or correct me. Also, any info on seating, use of computers, etc. would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Trotter :ThmbUp:

[Bill Cullen]

I can confirm for 2010, when I was there, that it was 15 races a day for three days. Your other info looks similar if not the same as it was when I was there.

Best,

Bill C

[Charli125]

I can confirm for 2010, when I was there, that it was 15 races a day for three days. Your other info looks similar if not the same as it was when I was there.

Best,

Bill C

I qualified on Saturday and this will be my first trip to the HPWS, 2nd to the NHC. Is it true that you can spread your $20 out over several horses? Having the first $2 uncapped is an interesting aspect which could make you look at some longer odds horses, so I like that one. I've never played in a WP contest where you can spread over several horses though, so I'm wondering if anyone can confirm that.

Anyone else who's been before, I'd appreciate any input. Things like, are laptops allowed, is there wifi, is the tournament held in the sportsbook, etc.

Also, any other PA members that will be there, we should meet up and say hello.

[Jay Trotter]

Charli,

KidCapper messaged me a little info about the contest:

* The tournament is held in the ballrooms on the 2nd floor of the Orleans

* If I recall correctly about $1000 a day gets you right up there with the leaders

* It's a ballroom setting with Tv's on all the wall's

* There is a huge video screen in the middle that shows the next race

* We always tried to get there early to get good seats

*They give you a piece of paper to put on your chair to reserve your seat

Hope to see you there! :ThmbUp:

[Charli125]

Charli,

KidCapper messaged me a little info about the contest:

* The tournament is held in the ballrooms on the 2nd floor of the Orleans

* If I recall correctly about $1000 a day gets you right up there with the leaders

* It's a ballroom setting with Tv's on all the wall's

* There is a huge video screen in the middle that shows the next race

* We always tried to get there early to get good seats

*They give you a piece of paper to put on your chair to reserve your seat

Hope to see you there! :ThmbUp:

Thanks Jay, that's great info. I'll definitely see you there. I did a little more sleuthing and the Twinspires blog had video from last year which also gave me a bit of a feel for it.

Personally, I'm going to focus on the NHC until it's over, take a week off, then focus on the HPWS.

[horses4courses]

Great job, Charli!
Hit it big in LV...... :ThmbUp:

Best of luck to you and all other PA members in those tourneys!

[Donnie]

Charli-- Congrats!! While I did not play in the Sat TS contest, I did qualify the following day, Sunday, at HPQualify.com, so I will be returning to the WS again this year.

Regarding some of your questions:

Yes, no problem with laptops. You'll want to get there early and let them know you will need electricity to your table. They are top notch and have always accomodated us.

Although you can play more than one horse in any given race, you cannot "spread" your $20 across multiple horses. You can make multiple $20 bets within one race, but I would challenge that strategy.

There is no wifi in the ballroom, at least not free wifi. Many laptop players have already switched to a data card to get around that issue.

As already confirmed by Bill, 15 races each for 3 days. Total of 45 races. No mandatories. Usually 5-8 tracks per day.

Another reason to get there early is to reserve your seat if you want to be able to see the monitors. Personally, I carry a small pair of binoculars with me.

Each day they serve an excellent buffet. If you go home hungry it's your own fault. :)

Racing Forms are available each day; actually the night before. Live betting windows are available right in the ballrooms. Drink tickets are usually issued at all the Coast Casino tournaments, and they always have servers passing by to get you drinks/refreshments.

They also have a free tournament on Sunday called Beat The Champs. Usually 5 races, if I remember. You submit your slip before the first race is run, but you can win up to I think $5000 if you win it. A lot of people schedule their flight out of Vegas first thing Sunday morning and miss this.

Good luck! Maybe we'll run into each other there!!

-Donnie

[Donnie]

Ohhhh and I think the most I have ever seen a leaderboard update at the Coast Casino Tournaments is twice over the course of each day.

[Charli125]

Charli-- Congrats!! While I did not play in the Sat TS contest, I did qualify the following day, Sunday, at HPQualify.com, so I will be returning to the WS again this year.

Regarding some of your questions:

Yes, no problem with laptops. You'll want to get there early and let them know you will need electricity to your table. They are top notch and have always accomodated us.

Although you can play more than one horse in any given race, you cannot "spread" your $20 across multiple horses. You can make multiple $20 bets within one race, but I would challenge that strategy.

There is no wifi in the ballroom, at least not free wifi. Many laptop players have already switched to a data card to get around that issue.

As already confirmed by Bill, 15 races each for 3 days. Total of 45 races. No mandatories. Usually 5-8 tracks per day.

Another reason to get there early is to reserve your seat if you want to be able to see the monitors. Personally, I carry a small pair of binoculars with me.

Each day they serve an excellent buffet. If you go home hungry it's your own fault. :)

Racing Forms are available each day; actually the night before. Live betting windows are available right in the ballrooms. Drink tickets are usually issued at all the Coast Casino tournaments, and they always have servers passing by to get you drinks/refreshments.

They also have a free tournament on Sunday called Beat The Champs. Usually 5 races, if I remember. You submit your slip before the first race is run, but you can win up to I think $5000 if you win it. A lot of people schedule their flight out of Vegas first thing Sunday morning and miss this.

Good luck! Maybe we'll run into each other there!!

-Donnie

Thanks Donnie and Horses4courses, and congrats Donnie. As the date gets closer I'll post something so that all of us PA'ers can meet up for a drink. One of the things I really enjoy about tournaments is the social aspect, and I've been able to meet several PA'ers at contests.

I too wouldn't bet multiple $20 bets on the same race, and I'm glad you can only bet one horse per bet. It would've been a lot more complicated if you could spread.

[Jay Trotter]

Question on Past Performances

I'm a Brisnet guy. I would imagine the DRF would be easily accessible at this event but what do you do if you're a Bris guy? Any thoughts?

[JimG]

Question on Past Performances

I'm a Brisnet guy. I would imagine the DRF would be easily accessible at this event but what do you do if you're a Bris guy? Any thoughts?

I have not been in the past couple of years, however in the past BRIS had a representative there and would give you whatever printed reports you wanted, gratis. You may want to contact them in advance of the tournament to see if they plan to be there. It is good PR for them.

Jim

[Jay Trotter]

I have not been in the past couple of years, however in the past BRIS had a representative there and would give you whatever printed reports you wanted, gratis. You may want to contact them in advance of the tournament to see if they plan to be there. It is good PR for them.

JimThanks Jim, I'll drop them a line and report back on what I find out.:ThmbUp:

[Jay Trotter]

What are the hours the contest runs each day?

[Donnie]

They start with the first race of whatever they list as their East Coast tracks and usually finish up with the last race from Santa Anita. But the doors to the rooms are usually open by 8AM.

[Jay Trotter]

They start with the first race of whatever they list as their East Coast tracks and usually finish up with the last race from Santa Anita. But the doors to the rooms are usually open by 8AM.

Thanks. That's a long day then.

I have that pegged as 12:25 pm EST to 5:08 pm PST or 9:25 am Las Vegas time to 5:08 pm Las Vegas time.

[Donnie]

Yep....you got that just about right, Trotter. The rooms start to ramp up between 9:30 and 10:00 AM.......around 3:30 -4:00 PM, the crowd starts to thin out a little bit. For non-experienced tournament players, they are mentally and physically exhausted by the end of the day. Gotta learn to pace yourself.

[Jay Trotter]

I noticed the Contest Tracks are now posted on The Orleans website:




Thursday: Tampa Bay, Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Fairgrounds, Oaklawn, Santa Anita
Friday: Tampa Bay, Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Fairgrounds, Oaklawn, Hawthorne, Golden Gate, Santa Anita
Saturday: Tampa Bay, Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Fairgrounds, Oaklawn, Hawthorne, Golden Gate, Santa Anita

[Jay Trotter]

In answer to my question about the availability of Brisnet PPs for the event, Ed DeRosa contacted me to advise Brisnet would have a presence at the tournament and that PPs would be availalbe. He didn't have all the logistics yet but promised to follow-up when he did.

Ed DeRosa
director of marketing, BRIS
(859)219-4645 (http://tel:%28859%29219-4645)

ed.derosa@brisnet.com

[Badactor]

Taking a shot @ The Orleans Last Chance Qualifier!

Buy-in $100, Win & Place
Thursday, January 26, 2012
Registration @ 8:00am
Twelve Contest Plays
Top 3 qualify for the 2012 Horse Player World Series
Top 5 prize money

Contest Tracks:
Aqueduct, Fairgrounds, Gulfstream, Oaklawn, Tampa Bay, Laurel, Santa Anita and Golden Gate


It would be great to meet a few new folks...
if any PaceAdvantage players are attending,
take a moment and say hello during the contest.
:)
Dell Yount (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0950306/)

[Jay Trotter]

I just received notice in my email that Brisnet Ultimate PPs will be available for Free from February 23rd to 29th for all registered users. As the World Series goes February 23rd to 25th this works out perfect.

http://www.brisnet.com/promos/pictures/savethedateppshead.jpg

[Charli125]

Just wanted you guys to know that I'll tweet updates whenever I can. I'm not sure how often they're posted, but I heard that they're not updated online, so I'll do my best. I'll also post them here if I can, though it depends on how good the internet is. I know at NHC the signal was so bad I couldn't load PA.

My twitter is @Charli125

[Beachbabe]

Good luck to Charli and Trotter and any other PA' ers. :jump:

Keep us posted, guys.

[Jay Trotter]

I posted only three 2nd's and three 3rd's on Day 1. The 3rds don't pay! Hopefully, tomorrow brings in a few winners.

[Beachbabe]

I posted only three 2nd's and three 3rd's on Day 1. The 3rds don't pay! Hopefully, tomorrow brings in a few winners.

Better days are coming. Get rid of the hooker and start handicapping for tomorrow.

Hey look Jay, if perchance you should win this thing, you will come back here and converse with the great unwashed.....wont ya ??

[Jay Trotter]

Better days are coming. Get rid of the hooker and start handicapping for tomorrow.

Hey look Jay, if perchance you should win this thing, you will come back here and converse with the great unwashed.....wont ya ??I'm just hopin' they let me back in here after the Day 1 debacle. Off to Day 2 in a couple minutes. :cool:

[Jay Trotter]

Well, Day 2 is in the books for me..............one 1st and two 2nds; marginally better than yesterday. Tomorrow's the day!

[Charli125]

I posted only three 2nd's and three 3rd's on Day 1. The 3rds don't pay! Hopefully, tomorrow brings in a few winners.

On day 1 I had 2 winners, 1 2nd, and 5 3rds. Unfortunately, I'm in the same predicament as Jay, 3rd doesn't pay.

On day 2 I have 1 left and I'm taking the 9 in the 9th at Fairgrounds. Today was 3 winners, and 2 3rds and hopefully we'll make it 4 winners in the next.

Total points without this last race is 1,212 which would barely have been enough to be in the top 10 for day 1 money!

I'm going to need some bombs tomorrow.

[Charli125]

I was painfully nosed out in that last race going from around 160 points to 52. Final total through day 2 is 1,264.

Jay, where are you sitting? I'll stop by and say hello.

[Charli125]

Just saw the updated standings after day 2. I'm in 123rd, and the leader has about 3,500. That's quite a lead.

[Beachbabe]

Just saw the updated standings after day 2. I'm in 123rd, and the leader has about 3,500. That's quite a lead.


Good luck, Charli.
It sounds like you're at least in striking distance to crack the top 25 or better.

:ThmbUp:

[Charli125]

Good luck, Charli.
It sounds like you're at least in striking distance to crack the top 25 or better.

:ThmbUp:

Thanks. The goal is day money and a top 25 finish. 1st is probably out unless I hit everything, but then again, the leaders usually start playing safe so there's still a chance.

[JimG]

Just saw the updated standings after day 2. I'm in 123rd, and the leader has about 3,500. That's quite a lead.

Bob Gregory is the current leader. A heck of a nice guy and great tourney player that has had recent health issues. Glad to see him do well.

Charli, best of luck to you and all the players here at PA that are in the contest. Should be a good finish. Wish I was there.

Jim

[cj]

Bob is a customer of mine. He came in 2nd in the DRF contest in 2010.

He actually won the most money on each of the first two days. For a contest with nearly 700 people, that is mind boggling.

[Jeff P]

Confirmed a few minutes ago. Final leaderboard now up and Bob posted 1st.

I am absolutely THRILLED that Bob won. It couldn't have happened to a nicer and more deserving guy.


-jp

.

[Sly7449]

Greetings,

Bob G may be using more than one Program.

He does post on HTR BBS so it appears that he is also an HTR User.

Interesting to hear which one or combo that helped in his continuing

success.

Congrats Bob.

Sly

[SpotPlays]

I'm sure he mixes it with his own handicapping, but what is the other program besides HTR that Bob Gregory would have been using?

[Jay Trotter]

Charli,

Sorry I missed your post .... I hadn't come on line! I didn't fair too well, finishing 551st. An experience never the less.

Trotter

[Charli125]

Charli,

Sorry I missed your post .... I hadn't come on line! I didn't fair too well, finishing 551st. An experience never the less.

Trotter

No worries Jay. I'm back here playing the Beat the Champion tournament now! I finished 102nd with just shy of 2K points.

Bob deserved that win by having the high points for day 1 and 2. It's unbelievable that someone could do that with all these players. Day 3 is more of a crapshoot because lot's of folks were just playing the longest shot on the board.

Very impressive.

[Bill Cullen]

I was there too and didn't fare too well either.

I did better each day, though, and would have showed a profit ($1800+) if I was betting my contest selections because I had a double-capper late on the third day at Golden Gate ($80+ winner).

I think my ranking was about 239 out of the 687 entries putting me in the top 35%.

This was my second time at the World Series event and I really learned a lot.
I really worked the event knowing it took just another capper or two to be a contender for one of the daily awards or one of the lower overall contest awards.

I really love this tournament at the Orleans. I won into the event just two weeks before it began through one of the horsetourney.com contests on Feb 10. Back in 2009 I technically won into the 2010 World Series by placing high enough in one of the hpqualify.com contests to get in, but I took the $1000 in cash because i wasn't sure if my schedule would let me attend the 2010 event. But I was able to attend so I bought into the event with the thousand dollars.

Here's the one secret I know of that the general public doesn't know yet: if your handicapping is good enough at least to break even over the long run, you can be a contender in these contests, whether it's a national event or just a small weekend contest. I've proved this personally at least a half a dozen times over and I know that if I'm doing it, a hell of a lot more people could also be doing it.

All the best,

Bill C

[cj]

Bob is on At the Races with Steve Byk today at 10 EST.

[kingfin66]

Where can I listen to At the Races?

[cj]

Sirius/XM, but there is also a link on the Derby Trail site.

http://www.clearstreaming.com/radiostreams/attheracesandbeyond/attheracesandbeyond.asx

[maddog42]

Sirius/XM, but there is also a link on the Derby Trail site.

http://www.clearstreaming.com/radiostreams/attheracesandbeyond/attheracesandbeyond.asx

CJ, he gave you and HTR a very nice plug.
Congrats!!
Also Congrats to Bob. I think he deserved it after his health ordeal.

[Donnie]

I was fortune to have dinner with Bob and 10 others following the tournament. CJ, he gave your pace figures high kudos there as well. Between your pace figures and HTR, those are the only 2 tools he uses. Congrats on the "assist"!!!

[maddog42]

I was fortune to have dinner with Bob and 10 others following the tournament. CJ, he gave your pace figures high kudos there as well. Between your pace figures and HTR, those are the only 2 tools he uses. Congrats on the "assist"!!!

I give CJ half an assist, like half a sack in football. Cj ,Why don't you send Bob an invoice for half of 35k or half of 10 percent. Seems fair. 350k is enough to go around. Ought to be good for a few chuckles.

[Badactor]

Photos & Interview (http://upinclass.blogspot.com/2012/02/2012-hpws-champion-robert-gregory.html) with 2012 HPWS Champion, Mr. Robert Gregory!

[Tom]

Good interview.
:ThmbUp:

[Jay Trotter]

Badactor, it was a real pleasure meeting you and having the opportunity to speak for a bit!

A real pleasure,

Bear
aka Jay Trotter :ThmbUp:

[bcgreg]

Hello everyone,

I have to catch a plane for Houston in a few minutes but I wanted to thank everyone for your very kind comments before I left town. I will post more upon my return home on Friday.

I am still pinching myself after this past weekend. Unfortunately, sitting in my doctors office tomorrow morning will probably bring me back into reality very fast.

Regardless...I am a very lucky guy.

With gratitude,
Robert (Bob) Gregory

[maddog42]

Good luck Bob!! Give em hell.

[Light]

Regardless...I am a very lucky guy.



Congrats. Did you use HTR as your main form of handicapping to win the contest?

[Beachbabe]

Congrats to everyone who participated, especially to "Bob" who is a member here and won the tourney. Kudos to CJ, since I gather his "program" (for lack of a better word) was instrumental in the winner's outcome.
To those who participated and didn't do too well, I know the feeling. Been there, done that. It only takes one off day (and hey, we've all had out share of off days),and your treading water after that.
I've got to say, I love the experience of participating in these things. You get all the highs & the lows.....and the food aint bad; and you can always pick up a few bucks at the table of your choice after the racing day is done.

[cj]

Congrats. Did you use HTR as your main form of handicapping to win the contest?
He said he formulated his own unique approach using both HTR and PaceFigures.com figures.