Is Fairgrounds rigged?

[lansdale]

I bet on yet another race at FG with a bizarre (to me) result, and have begun to wonder about what's going on at this track. There truly seems to me to be no correlation betwwen the PPs for some of the races here and what happens on track. Since I seem to be whining here, let put my experience at FG in perspective: I play mostly grass at many of the available tracks, and generally, the results are within a fairly predictable range. But almost never when it comes to the FG turf course.

Possibly there is something unique about this turf course which eludes me. But the unusual outcome of today's 9th gave me a deja vu feeling of human manipulation. The three favorites finished in the bottom three slots. The winner hadn't won a race in about 18 months, and the other two ITM horses hadn't won in a comparably long period. I've seen more than a few races with bizarro outcomes like this in the past couple of months there , in which none of the ITM horses had hit the board in awhile, with PPs to match. And the one explanation that might work for such results, that these were cheap races with formless animals, doesn't hold. In fact, today's 9th was an OC 40k, with some fairly formful contenders - or so I thought. The only explanation for these races which seems to fit is that this race was a Christmas present for the barns of the ITM horses.

BTW, I had the 1 horse, who I thought was pulled up by the jock after beginning to make a move at about the 1/2 mile point, but continued to run behind the pack. Would like to know if it looks this way to anyone else who played this race or watches the replay.
If I'm really off on this, would appreciate some feedback, and I'd especially like to hear from those who play FG regularly, or anyone who takes a look at the running of the race.

Cheers,

lansdale

[CincyHorseplayer]

Your guess is as good as mine but I think the fact that they had a snowstorm a week ago might have something to do with the results.There is no designation for a drying out turf course but they surely aren't the same.I haven't done last week's results but from 12/4 to 12/18 there were only 4 horses that won at 5/2 or less in routes and there were 3 off-turf designations.And they have such an affinity for Filly Turf sprints it's sick.

Sometimes I have to go back and look at weather reports on some tracks to get an idea what's going on when the results make no sense.I have to do it at Turfway because they think that because it's titled an "All Weather Surface" it's exempt from rain and snow.It's "Magic Dirt" or something.

[GaryG]

The winner was a Malcolm Pierce Woodbine shipper that had finished 2nd last out. Pierce has won with a lot of these in recent years. The 2nd horse just missed by two lengths under the same conditions. Matzoh Toga dropped the rider in his only recent start and previously liked this course. I didn't bet the race but I don't see this result as bizarre or evidence of a "fix"..

[ArlJim78]

in my view the race was loaded with uncertainty to begin with, given that horses were shipping in and coming off of layoffs. a 6/1 winner and a 9/1 place horse doesn't scream foul play to me. it looks like the winner was coming off of a pretty nice grass race at Woodbine.

Cobrador was overbet and had been dusted earlier in the year by the place horse.

the public was also uncertain, with 3/1 lukewarm co-favorites and seven horses in single digit odds.
its just racing.

[onefast99]

The turf course is like a sponge, we ran there last year in December and I couldnt believe after three days of rain it wasnt taken off the turf. Makes no sense to me. The main track has a very long stretch and that helps out the closers immensely.

[point given]

I played the race and saw it as pretty wideopen. Originally I had the 1 horse in but saw that he had never won a turf race. I used the 6 for the reasons someone else posted about the trainer and the horses last race, Must admit i spread in here though in p3 and got nosed in the finale having the 2 and 9. I like the FG turf course and don't find it fixed, but there are trainers who point to it and the form sometimes doesnot point to the winner but the connections do and past history. What I do find though are some short priced exactas when there are longshots involved where i figure it should pay 5-600 but comes 250=300.

[Hank]

Nothing fishy about that result. My (CJ's) figs had the 6 horse rated as the strongest finisher in the field.And as others have noted Pierce comes to FG with horses ready to fire.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"the public was also uncertain, with 3/1 lukewarm co-favorites and seven horses in single digit odds."

Higher odds on the top favs is one way I have to consider a race "unpredictable".

[highnote]

"the public was also uncertain, with 3/1 lukewarm co-favorites and seven horses in single digit odds."

Higher odds on the top favs is one way I have to consider a race "unpredictable".


Dick Mitchell taught me a good method for playing those types of races. Find 5 or 6 contenders and then bet all exacta combinations with those contenders that are paying over $100.

[David-LV]

A lot of strange results appear to be coming up since the introduction of the 10 cent supers. :bang:

______
David

[the little guy]

A lot of strange results appear to be coming up since the introduction of the 10 cent supers. :bang:

______
David


Yeah, that's what did it. The race fixers didn't have enough to play for dollars.....but once they went to dimes it was OFF TO THE RACES!

[JohnGalt1]

FG turf course is slower than most.

A 1:38 run at FG can be faster than a 1:36 at Belmont or Gulfstream.

I use Cynthia's par book to compare tracks.

[stu]

Racing should do everything it can to attack any perception of 'rigged' events.

On a somewhat related note -- I used to be a fan of boxing until the questionable outcome of the Evander Holyfield - Lennox Lewis fight that ended in a draw (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/03/99/lewis_vs_holyfield/296539.stm)

Hundreds of people walking out the same Santa Monica sports bar as I did were shaking their heads in disbelief. From that point I slowly became indifferent towards boxing.

I couldn't even tell you the name of one title holder, but I can sure tell you the UFC 92 has 10 nice mixed martial arts matches tonight.

The integrity issue is key to preserving the sport.

That said I didn't get to see the race in question and will give the participants the benefit of the doubt.

[point given]

Racing should do everything it can to attack any perception of 'rigged' events.

On a somewhat related note -- I used to be a fan of boxing until the questionable outcome of the Evander Holyfield - Lennox Lewis fight that ended in a draw (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/03/99/lewis_vs_holyfield/296539.stm)

Hundreds of people walking out the same Santa Monica sports bar as I did were shaking their heads in disbelief. From that point I slowly became indifferent towards boxing.

I couldn't even tell you the name of one title holder, but I can sure tell you the UFC 92 has 10 nice mixed martial arts matches tonight.

The integrity issue is key to preserving the sport.

That said I didn't get to see the race in question and will give the participants the benefit of the doubt.

Yes sir. If you don't have that everyone walks. What I'd like to see is a racing czar, as has been mentioned more this year. And thinking about it now, since Bill Nader (ex NYRA head ) has gone to Hong Kong and been involved in an organzation with zero tolerance; he might be the best choice to head up the effort here if it ever could come to fruition.

[David-LV]

Yeah, that's what did it. The race fixers didn't have enough to play for dollars.....but once they went to dimes it was OFF TO THE RACES!


Well, let's examine your statement above.

If you hit a 10 cent super 20 times that pays $500 that means you collected $10,000 without any signning or any tax implications or sharing with the owners.

Believe me there are trainers running those chalks out of the top 4 spots daily and are taking down some nice payouts.

Yes my friend it was OFF TO THE RACES when they went to the dime supers, just another way among the many to screw us suckers.

_______
David

[the little guy]

Well, let's examine your statement above.

If you hit a 10 cent super 20 times that pays $500 that means you collected $10,000 without any signning or any tax implications or sharing with the owners.

Believe me there are trainers running those chalks out of the top 4 spots daily and are taking down some nice payouts.

Yes my friend it was OFF TO THE RACES when they went to the dime supers, just another way among the many to screw us suckers.

_______
David


I assume you don't bet....because if you actually believe this kind of stuff then you would be crazy to ever bet a horse race.

It's also fair to say that you don't know one single trainer.

[onefast99]

I assume you don't bet....because if you actually believe this kind of stuff then you would be crazy to ever bet a horse race.

It's also fair to say that you don't know one single trainer.
I have to agree with TLG many a time I have sat with a trainer and many handicap poorly, in fact they always seem to have issues picking the first two finishers let alone a pick 6. That doesnt mean they are bad trainers just bad handicappers.

[JustRalph]

yes :lol:

[point given]

Dick Mitchell taught me a good method for playing those types of races. Find 5 or 6 contenders and then bet all exacta combinations with those contenders that are paying over $100.
I like that . Simple enough. Thanks

[Pittsburgh Kid]

I love the FG sod. Many memorable scores there.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Thanks all for activating my mind!!
I refer again to Brisnet "At a Glances" for meet stats of favs etc winning %.

[lansdale]

The winner was a Malcolm Pierce Woodbine shipper that had finished 2nd last out. Pierce has won with a lot of these in recent years. The 2nd horse just missed by two lengths under the same conditions. Matzoh Toga dropped the rider in his only recent start and previously liked this course. I didn't bet the race but I don't see this result as bizarre or evidence of a "fix"..

Gary,

I agree with everyone who called this a wide-open race with a false favorite. I had no problem with the winner, who I made roughly even with the 1 and the 5 on my figures, and gave the edge to the 1 based on the improving 3yo angle vs. the 18-month winless streak for the 6 and the advanced age of the 5. I still find the others ITM a bit dubious, but I'll live with it.

So maybe this just comes down to FG being a trainer's track, as Point Given observed below, and since that is generally a minor factor in my play, (one which doesn't present much of a problem for me elsewhere) I should just back off FG, and accept that I'm wasting my time there.

Appreciate your input.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

The turf course is like a sponge, we ran there last year in December and I couldnt believe after three days of rain it wasnt taken off the turf. Makes no sense to me. The main track has a very long stretch and that helps out the closers immensely.

onefast99,

Thanks for your reply. I was aware of the physical aspects of the course you mention, but it hasn't really seemed to help me :-). No doubt, it is a very different kind of course.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

I love the FG sod. Many memorable scores there.

Just for the FG meet. As you can tell, I can use the help.

[lansdale]

I played the race and saw it as pretty wideopen. Originally I had the 1 horse in but saw that he had never won a turf race. I used the 6 for the reasons someone else posted about the trainer and the horses last race, Must admit i spread in here though in p3 and got nosed in the finale having the 2 and 9. I like the FG turf course and don't find it fixed, but there are trainers who point to it and the form sometimes doesnot point to the winner but the connections do and past history. What I do find though are some short priced exactas when there are longshots involved where i figure it should pay 5-600 but comes 250=300.

Point Given,

I think this might be close to the truth. I think FG (at least on the grass) is more of a trainer's track than anywhere else I play, and since this is just not much of a factor for me, maybe I should just back off this place. Also, I think the FG betting public is as sharp as the NY or CA circuits, so that even when races seem wide open, they're still bet pretty correctly. The evidence for this to me, is that the races I actually can beat at FG usually come in below my 3-1 cutoff, and that was part of the frustration I was expressing in my post. The exacta comments you make would seem to confirm my point.

Much thanks for your insights, and helping to save what's left of my sanity.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

Nothing fishy about that result. My (CJ's) figs had the 6 horse rated as the strongest finisher in the field.And as others have noted Pierce comes to FG with horses ready to fire.

Hank,

I should be so lucky as to have access to the same numbers as you and CJ. I had the 6 in a 3-way closers tie with the 1 and the 5. Looks like one of us was right ;-).

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

Dick Mitchell taught me a good method for playing those types of races. Find 5 or 6 contenders and then bet all exacta combinations with those contenders that are paying over $100.

Thanks for reminding me of this play. Long time Dick Mitchell fan.

Cheers,

lansdale

[dav4463]

Dick Mitchell taught me a good method for playing those types of races. Find 5 or 6 contenders and then bet all exacta combinations with those contenders that are paying over $100.

Another similar one in a wide open race where you have six contenders is to play on top no less than 3/1 odds in combos where the horses combined odds are 13-1 or higher at 3 mtp.

example: horse on top is 4/1, combine in exacta with horses who are at least 9/1. It cuts down combos and puts you on the high paying combos. Sometimes that is easier than waiting for exacta payoffs which change more frequently than the odds do, especially at smaller tracks.

[juanepstein]

free simon husbands!

[gm10]

I bet on yet another race at FG with a bizarre (to me) result, and have begun to wonder about what's going on at this track. There truly seems to me to be no correlation betwwen the PPs for some of the races here and what happens on track. Since I seem to be whining here, let put my experience at FG in perspective: I play mostly grass at many of the available tracks, and generally, the results are within a fairly predictable range. But almost never when it comes to the FG turf course.

Possibly there is something unique about this turf course which eludes me. But the unusual outcome of today's 9th gave me a deja vu feeling of human manipulation. The three favorites finished in the bottom three slots. The winner hadn't won a race in about 18 months, and the other two ITM horses hadn't won in a comparably long period. I've seen more than a few races with bizarro outcomes like this in the past couple of months there , in which none of the ITM horses had hit the board in awhile, with PPs to match. And the one explanation that might work for such results, that these were cheap races with formless animals, doesn't hold. In fact, today's 9th was an OC 40k, with some fairly formful contenders - or so I thought. The only explanation for these races which seems to fit is that this race was a Christmas present for the barns of the ITM horses.

BTW, I had the 1 horse, who I thought was pulled up by the jock after beginning to make a move at about the 1/2 mile point, but continued to run behind the pack. Would like to know if it looks this way to anyone else who played this race or watches the replay.
If I'm really off on this, would appreciate some feedback, and I'd especially like to hear from those who play FG regularly, or anyone who takes a look at the running of the race.

Cheers,

lansdale

Hi, I think the result was not too unlogical. The Fair Grounds has a long stretch which benefits horses who can produce a strong late kick. If you look at my website, you will see that the horses with the top late kick finished third, second and first resp. (just go to the race and rank the column called LATE)

[raybo]

Well, let's examine your statement above.

If you hit a 10 cent super 20 times that pays $500 that means you collected $10,000 without any signning or any tax implications or sharing with the owners.

Believe me there are trainers running those chalks out of the top 4 spots daily and are taking down some nice payouts.

Yes my friend it was OFF TO THE RACES when they went to the dime supers, just another way among the many to screw us suckers.

_______
David

Are you serious!!!??? :rolleyes:

[Mineshaft]

FG is not rigged. They dont play games over there. Now at smaller tracks its a different story.

[supercap]

I assume you don't bet....because if you actually believe this kind of stuff then you would be crazy to ever bet a horse race.

It's also fair to say that you don't know one single trainer.

I agree with your assessment , if you believe the game is fixed why bother?
Maybe just bad handicapping!

[Valuist]

Either its pouring at the FG today or they are going to set some kind of record for non-also eligible scratches for a race card. On their website, the track is listed as fast with the turf firm. A total of 31 scratches not counting also eligibles.

[Mineshaft]

Either its pouring at the FG today or they are going to set some kind of record for non-also eligible scratches for a race card. On their website, the track is listed as fast with the turf firm. A total of 31 scratches not counting also eligibles.




EHV virus found on a horse there-They are not allowing any ship-in horses thus the scratches.

[toussaud]

i've been racking up the last week at fair grounds. it's not rigged. every track is it's own eninity. what's so important in one instance might not be the case somehwere else.

[BIG49010]

I had a turf horse that loved to be rated on the front end, and he won his share of races at Arlington, Hawthorne, and Churchill. We sent him to the Fairgrounds for the winter racing, he would get an easy lead go 1:15 for 3/4's and still get caught by 3 or 4 horses. It didn't seem to matter how slow he went, he always got caught. It's the strangest turf course in the county, being below sea level, it can be like a bog one day, an a week later it drys out and sand appears to be flying. As for horses some love it, others hate it which is similar to the Florida racing.

Traditional methods of turf handicapping out the window. I have avoided it for years.

[Marshall Bennett]

Either its pouring at the FG today or they are going to set some kind of record for non-also eligible scratches for a race card. On their website, the track is listed as fast with the turf firm. A total of 31 scratches not counting also eligibles.
Horses that scratch should not be able to re-enter for 30 days unless a medical condition exist . That would put an end to this crap and do the game a world of good ... of course this will never happen . Some day the horse players will have enough of getting screwed over day in and day out and quit playing . I already have . Scratch all of them ... I don't care anymore !!

[WinterTriangle]

EHV virus found on a horse there-They are not allowing any ship-in horses thus the scratches.

This has wide reaching effects. "Oaklawn is not accepting any horses from Fair Grounds in New Orleans after a 3-year old filly there recently tested positive for equine herpes."

So, it affects both in and out.



Yeah, the 3rd race FG just had 6 scratches out of 10 runners!

[WinterTriangle]

[QUOTE=Marshall Bennett]Horses that scratch should not be able to re-enter for 30 days unless a medical condition exist . [QUOTE]

When dealing with a highly contagious disease, not so easy to pinpoint.

The quarantines are to protect the horses, not the wagering public. As it should be.

I have no problem with the scratches under these circumstances, as I would not expose my horse to grounds where equine herpes was found, simply to make the bettors happy.

[David-LV]

Are you serious!!!??? :rolleyes:


Very Serious!!!!!:rolleyes: :blush: :rolleyes:

_______
David

[Mineshaft]

[QUOTE=Marshall Bennett]Horses that scratch should not be able to re-enter for 30 days unless a medical condition exist . [QUOTE]

When dealing with a highly contagious disease, not so easy to pinpoint.

The quarantines are to protect the horses, not the wagering public. As it should be.

I have no problem with the scratches under these circumstances, as I would not expose my horse to grounds where equine herpes was found, simply to make the bettors happy.




Correct they have to protect the horses. Its not about fawking the betting public they cant afford for this virus to spread. They are trying to get races filled with only horses stabled at the track and also trying to get full fields for them. Might be a problem for a couple of days until the ban is lifted.

[Marshall Bennett]

[QUOTE=Marshall Bennett]Horses that scratch should not be able to re-enter for 30 days unless a medical condition exist . [QUOTE]

When dealing with a highly contagious disease, not so easy to pinpoint.

The quarantines are to protect the horses, not the wagering public. As it should be.

I have no problem with the scratches under these circumstances, as I would not expose my horse to grounds where equine herpes was found, simply to make the bettors happy.
I wasn't speaking so much in terms of the EHV virus which is understandable , but more of scratches in general . For instance when 3/4 of the field scratches due to a change in track conditions , or often for little if any reason at all . Trainers often enter horses knowing damn well they likely won't run . I've heard them say so . Its not viruses that have the game screwed up , its so much else , scratches being a large part of it .

[WinterTriangle]

[QUOTE=Marshall Bennett]For instance when 3/4 of the field scratches due to a change in track conditions , or often for little if any reason at all . Trainers often enter horses knowing damn well they likely won't run. I've heard them say so . [QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm with ya. I have horses on my watch list , I get the notification in advance, I handicap the horse against the present field, and look forward to making a value wager, then the horse is scratched. Lots of my time down the drain. Not to mention, don't know whether to take off my list, and then have to re-assess 'em against the next field, in many cases, they are no longer the value wager anymore.

If you wager the australian tracks, you hardly ever see a scratch.

[onefast99]

[QUOTE=WinterTriangle][QUOTE=Marshall Bennett]Horses that scratch should not be able to re-enter for 30 days unless a medical condition exist .
I wasn't speaking so much in terms of the EHV virus which is understandable , but more of scratches in general . For instance when 3/4 of the field scratches due to a change in track conditions , or often for little if any reason at all . Trainers often enter horses knowing damn well they likely won't run . I've heard them say so . Its not viruses that have the game screwed up , its so much else , scratches being a large part of it .
When a field is reduced to what the stewards feel are short then the horses that scratched will get days, normally 10. In the event someone cant ship in due to a quarantine nobody will get days. Trainers that enter into races and then see they come up tough(we all know who these guys are)then re-enter into a race three days later seem to get away with this type of activity a lot. If a horse scratches out of a race due to the track conditions I would not be in favor of giving that horse any days.

[Grits]

I always have trouble understanding those who ask "is so and so track rigged?"

"Is this game rigged?"

Why put your money through the windows if you believe this to be the case?

What do some of you guys think? Jocks, maybe, sitting around the jock's room drawing straws to see who gets to win the next one?

[cj's dad]

Seriously, does anyone on this board think that games are not played in some races. I wager and will continue to do so, but to think that every race is on the up and up every day at every track in America is, to say the least, a bit naive.

NBA games were tampered with. Do you think it stops there?

[Grits]

What you are noting can, indeed, be true, CJD. Sure. But, I couldn't follow this sport and wager on it, IF I were to dwell very long on this. I really try not to let it enter into my thinking.

Seriously, does anyone on this board think that games are not played in some races. I wager and will continue to do so, but to think that every race is on the up and up every day at every track in America is, to say the least, a bit naive.

NBA games were tampered with. Do you think it stops there?

[cj's dad]

Not dwelling Grits- just acknowledging that it does happen- doesn't effect my thought process.

[BUD]

NFL players normally tell friends O/U Tips---This I know to be so true.

The Cop in me swears I see (some) shenanigans at times..In our game.

Cmon its in our Nature---It just probably does not happen as much as a guy like me thinks----

[Grits]

Bud, couldn't you liken this to the same . . . . as "the barn" of said horse touting, "we got a live runner in today's 6th. A sure thing. Count on it, go to the windows and bet him with both fists."

NFL players normally tell friends O/U Tips---This I know to be so true.

The Cop in me swears I see (some) shenanigans at times..In our game.

Cmon its in our Nature---It just probably does not happen as much as a guy like me thinks----

[dav4463]

There are so many races and so many tracks running every day. Upsets will happen occasionally and at least 99.9% of races are not rigged in my opinion.

It's too easy to get caught and punishments are pretty severe. It's not worth it to rig a race in most situations.

We don't question upsets in football and basketball near as much as we do racing.

How could Appalachian State beat Michigan? How did the Jets beat the Colts in SuperBowl III? How did NC State beat Houston's Phi Slamma Jamma team?

Upsets happen.

[raybo]

I always have trouble understanding those who ask "is so and so track rigged?"

"Is this game rigged?"

Why put your money through the windows if you believe this to be the case?

What do some of you guys think? Jocks, maybe, sitting around the jock's room drawing straws to see who gets to win the next one?

:lol: :ThmbUp:

[Marshall Bennett]

Not to suggest any races are fixed , however if there were , why would a track in New Orleans be of any surprise ? :bang:

[overthehill]

I have a couple of stories to share with you:

I new a guy who was a pretty heavy gambler and he told me he was friendly with with a noted new york jockey , who knew he bet pretty heavy on horses with different bookies. one day the jockey gave him $1000 to bet on a long shot he was riding in the ninth and told him to spread it with a bunch of bookies. I remember the race because the horse had been a maiden with at least a dozen out of the money tries and that day it won for fun and paid over $100.

I used to go to the meadowlands quite a bit and was friendly with an older guy and his even older mom. they went frequently and were $2 bettors at the harness meets. One day they told me they were visiting a friend at the hospital and in the same room was a driver who had been hurt the night before. they struck up a conversation and hes asked them if they were going to the track that evening. When they he asked them to make a couple of exacta bets for him. They did and the driver collected!


For a while I went to the races everyday in New York and I could clearly see when one particular leading rider did not want to win. He would put his horse in a position where if the horse tried to run he would run up on the heels of another horse and have to check. If the horse still had run he would swing him to the inside, if he didnt he would swing him to the outside and start whipping and driving in the stretch.

One day I saw an apprentice rider doing the same thing with a favorite in a race. The next time the horse ran I bet him even though he was stepping up in class. The horse won and paid 5-1.

The worst thing i ever saw involved the stewards though. It was at Saratoga and my friend had a 6 -1 winner in a maiden race. There was a stewards inquiry and they took the horse down after about 5 minutes. Then they showed the replay and the horse they took down wasnt involved in the incident they showed. There was a subsequent inquiry behind closed doors and they reassigned or retired all three of the stewards. I guess we'll never know what really happened. That incident and the clandestine handling by the racing board really disillusioned me and made me realize that there really was no one out there protecting the average bettor. after that i joined the camp of those who believe that the betting order should never be changed by the stewards.

[Lefty]

I always ask one question of bettors who blve the races are rigged.
"if you think they're rigged and you bet your money, what does that make you?"

[Hank]

The majority of races are honestly run.However some are NOT, jocks read the form they know when a certain horse will take lots of money and if that horse runs OUT they also know who the other contenders are...............:ThmbDown:

[gopony]

I always ask one question of bettors who blve the races are rigged.
"if you think they're rigged and you bet your money, what does that make you?"

Yeah, I still bet on the races. But in the past year there have been a couple of races, where I would have paid some money to put some people under a lie detector test to find out what had really happened.

But I think for the most part it is a pretty clean sport. There are some heavy bettors out there with clout that would probably take exception to losing a $2,000 dollar wager if they thought that something was up.

But there are some tracks which I tend to stay away from because of suspicions. FG isn't one of them. But there have been some recent races there which I questioned the outcome, but there was nothing overtly going on that I could see. Just a $5,000 .10 superfecta. But hey it could happen.

And I'm actually surprised at how well the Louisiana race tracks seem to perform. I mean if it ain't happening overtly there, then it's probably not a big problem.:)

[FUGITIVE77]

I bet on yet another race at FG with a bizarre (to me) result, and have begun to wonder about what's going on at this track. There truly seems to me to be no correlation betwwen the PPs for some of the races here and what happens on track. Since I seem to be whining here, let put my experience at FG in perspective: I play mostly grass at many of the available tracks, and generally, the results are within a fairly predictable range. But almost never when it comes to the FG turf course.

Possibly there is something unique about this turf course which eludes me. But the unusual outcome of today's 9th gave me a deja vu feeling of human manipulation. The three favorites finished in the bottom three slots. The winner hadn't won a race in about 18 months, and the other two ITM horses hadn't won in a comparably long period. I've seen more than a few races with bizarro outcomes like this in the past couple of months there , in which none of the ITM horses had hit the board in awhile, with PPs to match. And the one explanation that might work for such results, that these were cheap races with formless animals, doesn't hold. In fact, today's 9th was an OC 40k, with some fairly formful contenders - or so I thought. The only explanation for these races which seems to fit is that this race was a Christmas present for the barns of the ITM horses.

BTW, I had the 1 horse, who I thought was pulled up by the jock after beginning to make a move at about the 1/2 mile point, but continued to run behind the pack. Would like to know if it looks this way to anyone else who played this race or watches the replay.
If I'm really off on this, would appreciate some feedback, and I'd especially like to hear from those who play FG regularly, or anyone who takes a look at the running of the race.

Cheers,

lansdale


Fairgrounds is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful track I've ever known in my life.

[the little guy]

I have a couple of stories to share with you:

I new a guy who was a pretty heavy gambler and he told me he was friendly with with a noted new york jockey , who knew he bet pretty heavy on horses with different bookies. one day the jockey gave him $1000 to bet on a long shot he was riding in the ninth and told him to spread it with a bunch of bookies. I remember the race because the horse had been a maiden with at least a dozen out of the money tries and that day it won for fun and paid over $100.




Bookies pay no more than 20:1 on win bets....and usually only 15:1. Somebody smart enough to put over a fantasy situation like you described would know that you could bet $1K to win on a 50:1 shot in NY and still get well over 20:1.

Nice throw in on the Allumeuse story. You get style points for that.

[Bruddah]

Seriously, does anyone on this board think that games are not played in some races. I wager and will continue to do so, but to think that every race is on the up and up every day at every track in America is, to say the least, a bit naive.

NBA games were tampered with. Do you think it stops there?

Has an honest and correct assesment of the question, are races fixed at the Fair Grounds or other tracks. He is 100% acurate in his opinion. Believe it and accept it. :ThmbUp:

Remember that money (greed) is the root of all evil and Racing does not get a pass. Thanks for telling it like it really is Daddy'O.

[lansdale]

Fairgrounds is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful track I've ever known in my life.

FUGITIVE77,

Since you quote from one of my favorites movies, 'The Manchurian Candidate' and your avatar is taken from my favorite TV show of the 60s, I'd really like to hear more from you on this subject, if you know anything. If you feel that's inadvisable, for whatever reason, thanks for at least giving me a smile.

Cheers,

lansdale

[RichieP]

For a while I went to the races everyday in New York and I could clearly see when one particular leading rider did not want to win. He would put his horse in a position where if the horse tried to run he would run up on the heels of another horse and have to check.

Sorry but this is hard for me to believe.

Jocks put their lives on the line riding races and to think one would intentionally put a horse in position to run up the heels of another would be the equivalent of playing Russian roulette. No way

[rokitman]

Sorry but this is hard for me to believe.

Jocks put their lives on the line riding races and to think one would intentionally put a horse in position to run up the heels of another would be the equivalent of playing Russian roulette. No way

I don't think he meant the jock actually ran the horse into the heels. Creating a necessity to check was the operative point, and that is exactly what I would do if I were a jock fixing a race.

Jockeys have fixed plenty of races. What's so hard to believe?

[ddog]

there can be/are horses in this race that are not going to try to win.
that doesn't mean a fix or they are rigged everytime.
there are fixes/riggs as history shows but everytime a horse doesn't run well isn't a fix/rig job.

there are races as preps all the time.

no news here ?

[ddog]

I always ask one question of bettors who blve the races are rigged.
"if you think they're rigged and you bet your money, what does that make you?"


and i always reply , an investor.

life is rigged , big deal.

[ddog]

There are so many races and so many tracks running every day. Upsets will happen occasionally and at least 99.9% of races are not rigged in my opinion.

It's too easy to get caught and punishments are pretty severe. It's not worth it to rig a race in most situations.

We don't question upsets in football and basketball near as much as we do racing.

How could Appalachian State beat Michigan? How did the Jets beat the Colts in SuperBowl III? How did NC State beat Houston's Phi Slamma Jamma team?

Upsets happen.

how do you know a player or two on one of those events wasn't in the tank?
How would you???

I don't think you would.


And... I didn't think jets/Colts was an upset. Not sure to this day if anything was rigged.
:)

[cj's dad]

And... I didn't think jets/Colts was an upset. Not sure to this day if anything was rigged.
:)

Stop bringing up bad memories :( :faint:

[FUGITIVE77]

FUGITIVE77,

Since you quote from one of my favorites movies, 'The Manchurian Candidate' and your avatar is taken from my favorite TV show of the 60s, I'd really like to hear more from you on this subject, if you know anything. If you feel that's inadvisable, for whatever reason, thanks for at least giving me a smile.

Cheers,

lansdale

Favorite TV show and movie also. Maybe best written TV series ever.

Some people run for exercise, some are professionals chasing a record -- and still others run to live. Theirs is the longest race -- if they can last until tomorrow, their reward is one more day of running