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View Full Version : 16 Hours Of Handicapping and all I get is a closed sign...I'm done.


Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 07:51 PM
Well I have officially had it with this sport, rather the people who run it. Thought I would spend a minute or so sharing my experiance yesterday and give those of you who are near your wits end something to ponder.

Sunday I engaged in my normal routine, get the form before going to work, start handicapping during slow periods at work, then after 5pm focus on it 100%. With the Fair Grounds card having 11 races with stacked and packed fields it took me until 8 in the morning on Monday morning to do all five tracks running on Monday. Normally I can do eight or nine tracks in that time period but with all tracks scheduled having full fields it took me a while. I am someone who is a detail freak and that has aided me in doing pretty well in this sport though it takes me longer than most because I crunch so many numbers.

Well my time invested was completly wasted as my heart sunk as I arrive at the track (River Downs) to see that they decided not to open AS SCHEDULED on Monday. Guess they figured much business wouldn't be done on a day when only 5 tracks were scheduled and two ended up cancelling. Well they obviously weren't too concerned about the folks who HAD BOUGHT ONE OF THE FORMS THAT THEY HAD FOR SALE ON SUNDAY to study the races that they didn't even open to simulcast. I thought about driving up to Lebanon Raceway, about 45 minutes away but as I got in my car I just thought to myself, why in the hell to I want to work to participate in a sport and industry that couldn't give a f**k about me or my time and efforts???

So I have made the decision to quit, it's the end of the line for me in regards to the jerks that run this sport. I found today that I would have ended up $29.50 ahead (pretty normal day for me) based on the selctions I had made at TuP,CRC,and FG and was glad to see I didn't miss any big scores, but what if I had?? What if someone else who was given the bone on this day had??? I can tell you one thing that most of you know, they (the tracks) don't care!!! They couldn't care less how they inconvienence the customer and they don't care about the time and effort players put into it.

They mess up your tickets, it's your fault. The tellers are surly, apathetic, and pay little attention to detail. Last week I had to return to the window twice to fix tickets that a teller, who was more interested talking to her coworkers than serving me, had fouled up. I have to return to my table every time and like gaze at my ticket and compare it to my written seletions on my form to assure myself I am ok. I am already obsessive compulsive about getting things perfect and right and this place drives me crazy. Since September I have had to go to machines to make my 10 cent super wagers (some of my best moneymakers) because I guess my money is not worth them taking that bet at the windows.

I make probably $150 to $200 worth of wagers every Monday visit to the track. I know that's less than many bettors on here but I figured it was something more than nothing. For the last year it's been the same, every Monday. 2 four dollar cheeseburgers as well on top of the 2 dollars for the table, which the dumbass that takes the ticket for that beats me to table before I can even get there (they never miss their customer service obligations when it comes to you paying these fees, can't tell you how many people I have seen run out of empty seats because they don't have a $2 ticket, probably alienating them too.). That would be fine if they actually acted as if they gave a damn about your business after that was over with.

I think a person would have to be plum crazy to pick up a form and invest the time necessary to do well and rely on these tracks not pulling this kind of garbage. You can call me crazy after returning after I had a $100 winner cancelled out by a teller error back in May. Somehow I have actually rationalized this and used it as a lesson to always check tickets with crazy attention to detail to prevent a bigger winner being cancelled out. I am crazy for doing this as I shouldn't have to even look twice.

By getting the form Sunday, I was accepting and saying I was ok with future borderline DQ's like I got at MNR on a previous Monday. This was not a customer service issue and could be tallied as a hazard of the game. But not opening when scheduled is abother matter, no matter what excuse they have ready to give.

My message to all of you is an important one and one I hope all of you will consider. I am writing this because I know many of you are not short on gripes about the industry. Whether it be the ADW issues, drugs in the sport, high takeout rates, past posting, or poor customer service at tracks and OTB's it is the responsibility of one person to make the decision on whether it continues in a disatisfying way it does now or maybe it stands a chance to improve for the benefit of the bettors and that person is YOU.

I am convinced that this industry survives only because it operates with the benefit of a unique customer base. Most of us have a genuine love for this sport and we are proud that hard work and dedication to getting better have given us an edge over other bettors who put less time and effort into it. It is a challenge for the mind that really has no equivalent, it is a one of a kind game. I can't tell you how hard it is for me to quit, I am going to be lost on Monday's, can't tell you what I am going to be doing. I was planning on adding an occasional Friday night as well.

But I refuse to let these cretins who run this sport use my love for the sport against me. That is what they do to all of us isn't it?? They know we will be back no matter how much they piss us off with their endless BS. The next time you complain about anything regarding this sport on this board or anything else go and take a look in the mirror because you enable it to go on.

Up until yesterday I did too, but no more. Not to wish any ill will toward anyone who doesn't have any control over these issues who makes their living in the industry, but this industry deserves to meet its end, first time I have ever said that but it's true. No other business treats it customers the way this one does, with this smug additude that ," hell who cares how they feel today they will be back the day after tommorow." Well I am 28, I would think I was an asset worth keeping happy as I am not a part of the customer base that will be passing on in the next ten years or so. Well I guess not.

Loved the conversation on here in the short time I was on here, I will be back now and then and will stay tuned the next few days to see how you guys respond, but I really am done with this sport. The reason I ask you to think about whether you should continue the next time you are royally screwed by its genius leaders is because I know how hard it is to confront that issue. You really can't complain if you continue to participate and support it.

Anyone have any ideas for a good replacement hobby????...lol

Greyfox
12-23-2008, 08:00 PM
I am already obsessive compulsive about getting things perfect and right and this place drives me crazy. lol

You know what's best for you and hopefully you've made the right decision.
I only played Fair Grounds yesterday and had no problems making hay.
In the meanwhile, "perfectionism" aint gonna work at the race track.
Perhaps you should take a breather and evaluate whether or not that is the way to approach this sport. Roll with the waves in this game.

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 08:10 PM
With the handicapping side of it aside, which I will admit it takes me longer to be accurate as I have to check and recheck things, it really benefits me at the track. I have spotted about a dozen errors on tickets since the mistake in May that I have been able to fix in time. And I don't speak with a stutter or anything either...lol...it's just apathy from the tellers, that's it. I don't know how you can avoid problems like this if your not checking things like a hawk.

Just to clarify on the OCD, I am just a freak when it comes to not losing stuff and not forgetting stuff. Basically deal with it by writing down stuff, reminders. I am not one that worries in the least about dieseses and stuff like that.

JustRalph
12-23-2008, 08:12 PM
take a break...........and come back after the holidays. I know you are pissed now....... but just take a break.



One thing I will say............you make very valid points. I don't disagree with much of what you say.

16 hours to handicap 5 cards? Wow!

Why aren't you playing from home? Don't you live in Ohio?

Again, relax and get through it.............

badcompany
12-23-2008, 08:15 PM
I am convinced that this industry survives only because it operates with the benefit of a unique customer base. Most of us have a genuine gambling problem and we are proud that hard work and dedication to getting better have given us an edge over other bettors who put less time and effort into it. It is a challenge for the mind that really has no equivalent, it is a one of a kind game. I can't tell you how hard it is for me to quit, I am going to be lost on Monday's, can't tell you what I am going to be doing. I was planning on adding an occasional Friday night as well.



FYP

dartman51
12-23-2008, 08:19 PM
I hate to hear of another one fed up. You sound like a prime candidate for on-line wagering. I use to make that trip twice a week every week from Nashville to Kentucky to the simulcast outlet. Then it got to be 2 or 3 times pr month then I got started on the internet. Haven't been back for 4 years now. I can honestly say, I don't miss it. I have 2 wagering accounts, Philly Park, and Twin Spires and I'm a happy camper.

Maybe you could give that a shot before you give up all together.:ThmbUp:

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 08:28 PM
Hey badcompany,

Yeah I will take my gambling problem to a casino. Oh wait, I have never been to a casino in the 28 years I have been on this planet.

I could swear that three weeks ago I had a nice trifecta about 100 yards away from the wire and the horse on the lead broke down. Nah I wasn't the only guy who was more concerned about the welfare of horse and rider and could care less about the stupid losing ticket or anything. Nah that wasn't me it was someone else.

I am sure some folks tolerate this stuff because of a gambling problem but if you are implying that I have one you are mistaken sir and your way off base. I run my own business and put alot of effort into it and I resent the way this business the run, the lack of effort I see and the lack of care for how the customer is treated. I do have a love for the sport that will never die, I guess the concept of that is lost on you sir. I am just not going to support it with my time, effort, and money, I will just watch from afar.

To those of you telling me to take a break, I appeciate the comments. I would have probably told you the same thing prior to yesterday. I am a person of principles though, and I would be ashamed of myself if I went back on my decision. I am sure it will be one I won't regret once I find something else to do. Like I said, yesterday did it for me, no way I ever go back. Maybe I will try my luck with women again....lol.....I am really not mad, I just think what I said about toleration of these type of things is what is at the root of the inaction on the part of the industry. Why should they do anything to improve things if people like me come back again and again no matter what kind of stuff they pull.

scgmhawk
12-23-2008, 08:31 PM
The horses are obviously something you enjoy so who are you hurting by quitting? Only yourself. I agree with some of the other sentiment to take a deep breath and re-group. If it's really not fun for you anymore, then stop. That doesn't sound like the case, though.

ralph_the_cat
12-23-2008, 08:42 PM
http://happymonkeyplanet.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/tissue_box.jpg

Charlie D
12-23-2008, 08:44 PM
another frustrated and fed up US racing fan bites the dust



I wonder how many more will have to bite the dust before the US racing industry wakes up


Good post Nmytwenties imho

Zman179
12-23-2008, 08:46 PM
Well, NMT, I'm in the same boat as you. I got fed up and had it up to here (hand currently horizontal over my head) and essentially gave up on racing.

Right now, I wager on average $20 per week on weekends; however, I still go to the track once in a while. For example, my friend and I might decide to pass up on Aqueduct and make the 1:15 drive to Philadelphia Park. I'll print up the Bris pp's online, plop 75 clams into my TwinSpires account, and bet Philadelphia Park on the phone. No need to deal with potentially surly tellers, no need to purchase any overpriced DRF's at Philly which still charges a 50 cent to 75 cent surcharge on the papers even though they're swimming in slots profits, no need to rise out of my seat in order to make a bet, no need to tip a teller when I score, in fact there is no need to pay for anything except food. And I do this at almost every track that I go to, you might want to try the same thing. I could give two sh*ts if the horsemen and tracks only get a fraction of the money than with an on-track wager, they should be happy that they're getting my little bit of money (which, by the way, used to be $500 to $1000 per week.) I'll never bet that kind of money on the races ever again; their greed simply disgusted me to the point that my action no longer registers a blip on the radar.

In the meantime, I still go on this board (and one other) every day and often have zero gumption to make a bet like today. Though Sunday I weakened and wagered a grand total of $2 at Northlands...turned it into $11. Woohoo! :jump:

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 08:57 PM
This sport never has stopped being fun for me, it was my favorite hobby. I never feel anger about losses, it's a game.

My decision is purely about customer service, or the lack thereof in this case. If I walk into a store and I am unhappy with the service, then why should I go back?? Why should the same thing not apply here. It has nothing to do with wins and losses, gambling problems, having momentary displeasure with the most recent incident, or anything else. I am just one of those people that refuse to patronize places that don't deserve my business. I drive 5 miles to a McDonald's when there is one only a 1/2 mile from where I live because the one I live closest to always fouls up the order and seems not to care one bit.

I mean you sell forms to customers for the next day but you don't open as scheduled????...WTF....I will be back one more time actually now that I think about it, to get my money for the form back.

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 09:08 PM
hawk - Yeah I will miss the sport and my routine, I was planning on it being my weekely routine for an indefinite amount of time, perhaps until I was old and gray. But I will get over it in time and won't have to deal with the guilt that I am not living my life by a set of principles, one of which is not to patronize businesses that seem not to give a damn about me.


Ralph - I had a giggle at your picture there, as I am sure some others on here did. I am a good sport so I will admit I chuckled. I may have a case of the goo-goo right now but I will get over it. One thing is for sure, if the things keep going as they are, the executives "leading" this sport keep on the same path they are they will need plenty of boxes of tissues when things inevitably go belly up.

ralph_the_cat
12-23-2008, 09:11 PM
Im glad you giggled, because some people take this sport way to serious... it is what it is...

Charlie D
12-23-2008, 09:17 PM
Im glad you giggled, because some people take this sport way to serious... it is what it is...


I tend to take the things i'm investing my hard earned in very seriously

cj's dad
12-23-2008, 09:17 PM
NMT-

Why in the hell are you dealing w/ the tellers???
Use the damn ATM's- at least if you make a mistake, it's on you !!

so.cal.fan
12-23-2008, 09:20 PM
It sounds like the track you are attending is a crappy little third rate place and I'm sure you are accurate in your description. I'm sorry this happened to you. We don't need to be losing nice young players in the game.
Not all tracks are like that Nmytwenties. I can't imagine Santa Anita doing that to the people.
They had to close their track down several days last winter due to an unsafe synthetic surface, but if I'm not mistaken......they stayed open to take simulcasting wagers.
Shame on your little racetrack, they sure don't deserve your patronage.
I hope you sent them a letter listing your complaints?
Many players who have abandoned horseracing are now involved in Texas Hold Em poker.
I hope you will find a way to stay in the game, again, very sorry this happened.

Dan H
12-23-2008, 09:34 PM
Nmytwenties,

The DRF for Friday has a small article on Page 22 (West Coast edition) that says the race book was closed down because it lacked heat in the face of a winter storm. Tough beat.

Hope you come back as Nmythirties.

Dan H

ralph_the_cat
12-23-2008, 09:43 PM
I tend to take the things i'm investing my hard earned in very seriously

I take the races very serious, everything else is meaningless... How Im treated doesnt make me a better player or increase my chances... keep taking that part of the sport serious and see how far it gets you...

and did anyone factor in it was 2 degrees that morning in ohio...:eek:

phatbastard
12-23-2008, 10:07 PM
as i was reminded many years ago during one of my racetrack rants by the old timers.....''the quit file is full kid...you'll be back, its in your blood''

Charlie D
12-23-2008, 10:08 PM
So far how i'm treated by those that run the sport has seen me quit UK racing, so far it's seen me become a frustrated and fed up US racing fan


I can bet/trade NFL, soccer or any other sport a UK platform provides


I don't need horse racing, horse racing needs me and others like me

Horse racing treats me as a valued customer just like my bank or i'm off to find another provider

CincyHorseplayer
12-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Nmytwenties,

We have talked about this because we're in the same city.Intead of going every Monday just save the cash and buy a computer and stay home to watch races.You're betting all simulcast races anyway.

I am absolutely sick of all the BS at Turfway Park and River Downs during the winter-can't sit where you want,whole card cancellations,crappy purses,spurious polytrack form,bad weather to drive in,stinky bathrooms,jaded mutuel clerks.I always wanted to support local and regional tracks but in the winter it's just not worth it.

I bet Fair Grounds Monday and Tampa Bay today,all from home and it was great.This was the first time I have used an ADW account and I'm just starting my new betting year after a hiatus since the Breeders Cup and a few weeks of note taking and dumping money into the accounts.Man,it is liberating and awesome to not have to leave the house in zero degree weather and drive back in rush hour during an oncoming winter storm to bet tracks that are alternately wet,muddy,frozen,drying out,and heavy.I'm not betting anything north of Florida,Louisiana,or SoCal all winter.And I sure as hell won't be doing it at RD or TP.At least until March.

Do yourself a favor and bet from home.It's a lot more enjoyable,not to mention cheaper.I had a pot of gumbo on the stove,christmas music on in the background,and sat around in sweatpants all day watching races.Most enjoyable pre-Christmas raceday experience I ever had.And I have to thank the ADW disputes for driving me away from Ohio races with their chicanery and 1970's purses that turned a bad game into pure farce,and Turfway's utter hatred of the customer looking for the best vantage point to watch the races via a pair of binoculars and unavailability of racecards to Ohio residents on weekdays.I just said F**k em all.There's better racing to be had elswehere anyway.Temperate weather reduces the X-factor of senseless results for the most part,I don't care what anybody says.Take a breather for a few weeks,invest your bet money into a computer,and liberate yourself from the red tape.I'm only 2 days in and I tell you,I might not ever bet a cold weather site ontrack again from October til February.Take care.

Rod

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 10:21 PM
So cal, your just about on the mark with your comment on the track in question. You could add in that they are just kinda pouting in the corner, apathetic on the horse racing side of things because they have failed in their bid to get slot machines. Wish I could patronize a place that cared, perhaps I wouldn't be finished with it all. And to all of those who have defended the track in question in the past, I am in no mood after yesterday, they show their true colors over and over for all to see.

CJSDAD-I know alot of bettors like the machines but I find them very testing on the patience. The ones at RD take two or three attempts to get the voucher to register and the touch screen is not sensitive to the touch you have to plant your fingure on it to get it to respond.

Dan, I found out why they closed. There were no other businesses closed because of the cold and road conditions were perfect. The business I own lost heat for two days earlier this month because of a electrical problem that knocked out power in the whole strip center and we were open business as usual despite it being a bit uncomfortable. As far as I am concerned the customer should be able to decide whether it is too cold or not in the place, I sure as hell would have still stayed the whole day. As So Cal said , it's a third rate operation at RD. I have been unable to place bets in the past because their machines have went down and watch my selctions come in without a wager being able to be placed. This is similar to that, if you can't keep your business in operational order because you skimp on making upgrades and repairs then you stand to lose customers when stuff like this occurs.

They can open back up whenever they feel like it when its warm enough for them to do so, whenever that will be. I just won't be there. I highly doubt they would have closed on Breeder's Cup day or Ky Derby day because or something trivial like that. They gave the bone to the consumer in this case because they didn't figure they were losing anything by doing so, with it being a Monday. They are wrong.

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 10:25 PM
phatbastard - I totally understand your train of thought as you can't help to think that I am like all the rest. That is what I am trying to emphasize with my post, we just have to stop tolerating it. Too many people say they are going to quit because of displeasure with the state of affairs only to return as you say I will.

My wagering days are over but I would be willing to make a large wager that I will prove you wrong, I assure you my friend, I will never be back.

boomman
12-23-2008, 10:38 PM
This sport never has stopped being fun for me, it was my favorite hobby. I never feel anger about losses, it's a game.

My decision is purely about customer service, or the lack thereof in this case. If I walk into a store and I am unhappy with the service, then why should I go back?? Why should the same thing not apply here. It has nothing to do with wins and losses, gambling problems, having momentary displeasure with the most recent incident, or anything else. I am just one of those people that refuse to patronize places that don't deserve my business. I drive 5 miles to a McDonald's when there is one only a 1/2 mile from where I live because the one I live closest to always fouls up the order and seems not to care one bit.

I mean you sell forms to customers for the next day but you don't open as scheduled????...WTF....I will be back one more time actually now that I think about it, to get my money for the form back.

nmy: So the point you're making is that when you hate customer service at one place, you seek another place offering the same type of product, whether it be a Big Mac or whatever. So IMHO that's what you need to try here: Go to an ADW like PTC that offers EXCELLENT customer service instead of leaving a game you love because of lousy customer service at one establishment. I can assure you that PTC will NEVER take your business for granted, and as many posters have noted here: One of the owners actually answers the phone!:ThmbUp:

Boomer

proximity
12-23-2008, 10:41 PM
Anyone have any ideas for a good replacement hobby????...lol

writing articles for h.a.n.a. maybe??:)

badcompany
12-23-2008, 10:45 PM
Hey badcompany,

Yeah I will take my gambling problem to a casino. Oh wait, I have never been to a casino in the 28 years I have been on this planet.

I could swear that three weeks ago I had a nice trifecta about 100 yards away from the wire and the horse on the lead broke down. Nah I wasn't the only guy who was more concerned about the welfare of horse and rider and could care less about the stupid losing ticket or anything. Nah that wasn't me it was someone else.


Your statement implied that the sport survives because of "love of game." This is absurd. It survives because of gambling. Would you go to River Downs just to watch the horses run and not bet?

098poi
12-23-2008, 11:04 PM
Nmyt-

I wish you well. Although you may not be a compulsive gambler it sounds like you are hooked! I am envious of your attention to detail and your willingness to put in so much time to get your results. Seems like it was paying off. I think you may not leave for long. You did state that you had, "2 four dollar cheeseburgers as well", as part of your visit to the track. I am not a doctor but you might try cutting back to one.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

SaratogaSteve
12-23-2008, 11:04 PM
Im glad you giggled, because some people take this sport way to serious... it is what it is...

that's the wisest thing I've seen posted here since joining. :ThmbUp:

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 11:14 PM
proximity - Funny suggestion there, I actually have about a dozen articles that I have written that have been posted on a political website (probably one you have never heard of..lol) Ashamed to say that in light of some of my spelling errors on here I notice after I have made posts....lol...Might be something I could start doing again though I really am not motivated to do it as much as I was as I don't see Western Civilization and the people who built it (their children and grandchildren that is) ever seeing the light regarding what has to be done to save it. People like to read but they don't really take action on things, at least with the subject matter that I was writing about.


Badcompany - I am surprised that you seem to think that all people who follow the sport are not interested in anything else other that betting. I would like to think most people on this board are not like that maybe I am wrong. I never bet on Triple Crown races but you better believe I never miss any of the TV coverage of them. I watched this sport before I ever bet on it and I guess I will return to my roots,so to speak, as of now

There have been races I have watched in the past at some lower end tracks that I have watched and not bet on because they were just unbettable. One was a month ago, a horse won a NW of 2 race in his 66th start that I enjoyed watching,even though I hadn't bet on it, because it was just a sight to see, a race so devoid of any talent. I watched this race while a race that I actually had a wager on was running at the same time.

Of course the lifeblood of the sport is gambling. And that is fine, but do you think all people who gamble are addicted to it??? I certainly am not and I would think a majority of posters on this board aren't either. I did not participate in this sport for reasons of "making a big score" it was about the challenge for me. I was more concerned with winning percentage than overall amount won or lost when I went. And I also think it is a great sport to watch whether you have a bet or not, I just wish the people who ran the industry were not so apathetic. But they are what they are and they will probably never change, so it is what it is.

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 11:24 PM
098poi --- The mental challenge was what attracted me to the sport more than anything. There are so few places or things you can do in this "reality show" based society, that is geared toward the wants and needs of people that will do everything in their power to NOT THINK, that actually challenge the mind. That is mainly the reason why I went.

Perhaps my freind Cincyhorseplayer could back me up on this, the burgers were not what you might think a four dollar burger would be like. Like a big one. Smallest burger I have ever ate regardless of the price,sure as hell didn't fill me up and I am a skinny guy. I am about 48 hours away from ribbing from my mom about not having enough weight on my bones...lol Thanks for the concern though.

bigmack
12-23-2008, 11:27 PM
You're seriously upset as a result of a track closing that you bought The Form for & a McDonald's fouled-up your order resulting in your deduction that they don't seem to care?

I'd learn a larger lesson. Get over it.

You're involvemenet in this world asks for your understanding that some things go awry. You're 20'somethin' - Pardon is granted on that basis in this case. Anything passed 30 with you feeling anything remotely similar is grounds for your union card being pulled from being an adult. K?

Nmytwenties
12-23-2008, 11:52 PM
bigmack - Why do you think I am seriously upset?? I assure you this is not something I am seriously upset about, it's really just a matter of me having my fill of the BS. I assure you I am not viewing myself as the most cheated person in the world. There are people who are losing their homes and other similar hardships and I happen to be doing very well right now business wise. I have nothing to be upset about in the overall scheme of things.

I am simply not going to waste my free time with it anymore when I am subject to so much BS. Why reward apathy and indifference, do you have any standards of performance you expect a place of business to achieve?? I would not be quitting if there had been a blizzard and all other businesses had been closed as I would have taken into account the circumstances, it just wasn't the case here.

Are you a parent BigMack??? I am not but using your apparent train of thought you would allow your children to do whatever they wanted regardless of the rules and reward them regardless of their behavior. If you think I am unreasonable and think I should spend money at a resturant that, for whatever reason (they don't care or they can't understand English to properly process my order, whatever the reason) can't get it right or if you think I should be ok with my time being wasted handicapping races that I can't even wager on because the place decides to close when they are scheduled to be open then I can only imagine that you would allow your kids to do whatever they wanted as well regardless of if they follow your rules or not.

Your expectations (which are evidently none) are just what enable this industry to operate as it does. Didn't know that it was unreasonable to expect a place to open when they are scheduled to. It's really not that big of a deal to me, I am not going to support it anymore so I am content.

bigmack
12-24-2008, 12:04 AM
On behalf of the industry and me... Good riddance.

Whiny types are unwelcome everywhere and most certainly, are a dime a dozen.

Nmytwenties
12-24-2008, 12:14 AM
That's cool dude. Believe me that "good riddance" vibe is one that I think alot of disatisfied bettors are well acquanted with. Hey it survived before me and it will afterwards. Funny though that I could count on one hand how many people my age were there every visit I made. It didn't seem like people my age were a dime a dozen at any time I was there.

Its certainly a good thing for them that they have folks like yourself who are quick with a "thank you sir may I have another" every time things like this happen.

Have fun with it and believe me I wish you all the luck in the world to avoid the problems I endured in my time involved in the sport, unless things do a 180 soimetime soon ,I think you'll need it.

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 12:14 AM
On behalf of the industry and me... Good riddance.

Whiny types are unwelcome everywhere and most certainly, are a dime a dozen.


Wrong attitude mate as whiny type contribute millions of dollars to betting markets around the world

HUSKER55
12-24-2008, 12:19 AM
NMT,hate to see you go but you gotta do what you gotta do.


However, get on your computer like everyone else, and go to the warmer atmospheres and bet the horses and enjoy the sport. It is more fun being at the track, but in the middle of winter? Florida or Arizona maybe.

Give it some thought. Good luck.

husker

the little guy
12-24-2008, 12:26 AM
Sorry, but being a dedicated horseplayer is ALL about how well you deal with frustration. This board is full of people who love the game, and have dedicated a great deal of their lives to that end, and I can guarantee you we have all dealt with a lot more frustrations without all the histrionics. It simply goes with the territory.

How many combined hours of our lives have been wasted with hard work scoping out a live longshot, only to get to the track and find it scratched....and then entered in the wrong spot the next time? For most of us the beauty outweighs the pain.....you just have to find it and deal with the rest.

Greatest game in the world.

CincyHorseplayer
12-24-2008, 12:32 AM
Wrong attitude mate as whiny type contribute millions of dollars to betting markets around the world

That's what I was thinking.

If this guy is a legitimate part of the industry this attitude right here goes to show exactly what the problem is with it.

Greyfox
12-24-2008, 12:46 AM
Thank you Nymtwenties,


The racing industry needs more like you to tell us and it what turns you off.
We have to learn from your complaints and do something about them.

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 12:59 AM
The racing industry needs more like you to tell us and it what turns you off.
We have to learn from your complaints and do something about them.


Correct

proximity
12-24-2008, 01:00 AM
proximity - Funny suggestion there, I actually have about a dozen articles that I have written that have been posted on a political website (probably one you have never heard of..lol) Ashamed to say that in light of some of my spelling errors on here I notice after I have made posts....lol...Might be something I could start doing again though I really am not motivated to do it as much as I was ....

i'm not smart enough to read political websites, so i can't help you there.

and you say you're not really motivated to do that stuff anyway. well what are you motivated about??

answer: horseracing

sure you've had several bad experiences with the game in rapid succession here lately. and i won't judge you because we all play this game in drastically different environments. but you don't stay up all night until 8am handicapping only to have the fire suddenly go out. so take a step back, consider the advice on this thread, and find a way to make the game work for you as a positive part of your life...

prox

Nmytwenties
12-24-2008, 01:02 AM
It seems like I am in a tiny minority as far as my expectations. I guess no one really has any standards anymore. Maybe its because I really strive to do whatever I can to make sure my customers are not unhappy with service at my business that I might expect more than most. But I still don't think that my "last straw" incident that happened yesterday was really a minor thing. I mean square one of running a business is opening the doors when you are scheduled to.

Little Guy, the examples you brought up were things that I have absolutly no problems or gripes about. I have always been like "darn I liked that horse" after getting those early scratches of my selections and just moved on. There is really no customer service issue there at all and that is something I have never really even thought about being dissatisfied with.

I appreciate the suggestions from those of you who tell me to set up a ADW account. But think about that for a minute. Should it have to come to that, should customer service be so bad that people can't even fathom actually going to a track. I couldn't stomach supporting these people, no matter how much I enjoyed the sport. Those of you who agree with my opinions that many of these track lack in the customer service department, don't you feel a little phony betting online, your still filling their pockets despite their defficiencies.

I appreciate your love for the game but you really are supporting the problem. I don't think I am in any way "whiny" or expecting too much.

Is it really that damn hard to open the doors when scheduled, have equipment that works so bettors are not cheated because of machines that "go down", have employees that act like they aren't being held there against their will, and have employees that simply listen to you say a few words and numbers and type them in correctly???

That's all that I ever expected from them. I never complained about the drug problem in the sport because I thought it was something that good players could adapt to to an extent. I never had a huge gripe with the past posting issue because again the money side of things was secondary to me.

I just expect a certain degree of competance and service that I guess many of you internet bettors have long ago gave up on ever getting from the tracks. I don't blame you and I won't curse you for doing what you do, but I will respectably decline as they don't deserve my money or time and they don't deserve yours either, again they are lucky to have a unique situation as they do, running a game that so many love, any other business would simply not make it.

the little guy
12-24-2008, 01:11 AM
I don't understand....I thought it was said in this thread that DRF had an article explaining the very legitimate reason the track was closed. Why is that being ignored?

Imriledup
12-24-2008, 01:14 AM
Well I have officially had it with this sport, rather the people who run it. Thought I would spend a minute or so sharing my experiance yesterday and give those of you who are near your wits end something to ponder.

Sunday I engaged in my normal routine, get the form before going to work, start handicapping during slow periods at work, then after 5pm focus on it 100%. With the Fair Grounds card having 11 races with stacked and packed fields it took me until 8 in the morning on Monday morning to do all five tracks running on Monday. Normally I can do eight or nine tracks in that time period but with all tracks scheduled having full fields it took me a while. I am someone who is a detail freak and that has aided me in doing pretty well in this sport though it takes me longer than most because I crunch so many numbers.

Well my time invested was completly wasted as my heart sunk as I arrive at the track (River Downs) to see that they decided not to open AS SCHEDULED on Monday. Guess they figured much business wouldn't be done on a day when only 5 tracks were scheduled and two ended up cancelling. Well they obviously weren't too concerned about the folks who HAD BOUGHT ONE OF THE FORMS THAT THEY HAD FOR SALE ON SUNDAY to study the races that they didn't even open to simulcast. I thought about driving up to Lebanon Raceway, about 45 minutes away but as I got in my car I just thought to myself, why in the hell to I want to work to participate in a sport and industry that couldn't give a f**k about me or my time and efforts???

So I have made the decision to quit, it's the end of the line for me in regards to the jerks that run this sport. I found today that I would have ended up $29.50 ahead (pretty normal day for me) based on the selctions I had made at TuP,CRC,and FG and was glad to see I didn't miss any big scores, but what if I had?? What if someone else who was given the bone on this day had??? I can tell you one thing that most of you know, they (the tracks) don't care!!! They couldn't care less how they inconvienence the customer and they don't care about the time and effort players put into it.

They mess up your tickets, it's your fault. The tellers are surly, apathetic, and pay little attention to detail. Last week I had to return to the window twice to fix tickets that a teller, who was more interested talking to her coworkers than serving me, had fouled up. I have to return to my table every time and like gaze at my ticket and compare it to my written seletions on my form to assure myself I am ok. I am already obsessive compulsive about getting things perfect and right and this place drives me crazy. Since September I have had to go to machines to make my 10 cent super wagers (some of my best moneymakers) because I guess my money is not worth them taking that bet at the windows.

I make probably $150 to $200 worth of wagers every Monday visit to the track. I know that's less than many bettors on here but I figured it was something more than nothing. For the last year it's been the same, every Monday. 2 four dollar cheeseburgers as well on top of the 2 dollars for the table, which the dumbass that takes the ticket for that beats me to table before I can even get there (they never miss their customer service obligations when it comes to you paying these fees, can't tell you how many people I have seen run out of empty seats because they don't have a $2 ticket, probably alienating them too.). That would be fine if they actually acted as if they gave a damn about your business after that was over with.

I think a person would have to be plum crazy to pick up a form and invest the time necessary to do well and rely on these tracks not pulling this kind of garbage. You can call me crazy after returning after I had a $100 winner cancelled out by a teller error back in May. Somehow I have actually rationalized this and used it as a lesson to always check tickets with crazy attention to detail to prevent a bigger winner being cancelled out. I am crazy for doing this as I shouldn't have to even look twice.

By getting the form Sunday, I was accepting and saying I was ok with future borderline DQ's like I got at MNR on a previous Monday. This was not a customer service issue and could be tallied as a hazard of the game. But not opening when scheduled is abother matter, no matter what excuse they have ready to give.

My message to all of you is an important one and one I hope all of you will consider. I am writing this because I know many of you are not short on gripes about the industry. Whether it be the ADW issues, drugs in the sport, high takeout rates, past posting, or poor customer service at tracks and OTB's it is the responsibility of one person to make the decision on whether it continues in a disatisfying way it does now or maybe it stands a chance to improve for the benefit of the bettors and that person is YOU.

I am convinced that this industry survives only because it operates with the benefit of a unique customer base. Most of us have a genuine love for this sport and we are proud that hard work and dedication to getting better have given us an edge over other bettors who put less time and effort into it. It is a challenge for the mind that really has no equivalent, it is a one of a kind game. I can't tell you how hard it is for me to quit, I am going to be lost on Monday's, can't tell you what I am going to be doing. I was planning on adding an occasional Friday night as well.

But I refuse to let these cretins who run this sport use my love for the sport against me. That is what they do to all of us isn't it?? They know we will be back no matter how much they piss us off with their endless BS. The next time you complain about anything regarding this sport on this board or anything else go and take a look in the mirror because you enable it to go on.

Up until yesterday I did too, but no more. Not to wish any ill will toward anyone who doesn't have any control over these issues who makes their living in the industry, but this industry deserves to meet its end, first time I have ever said that but it's true. No other business treats it customers the way this one does, with this smug additude that ," hell who cares how they feel today they will be back the day after tommorow." Well I am 28, I would think I was an asset worth keeping happy as I am not a part of the customer base that will be passing on in the next ten years or so. Well I guess not.

Loved the conversation on here in the short time I was on here, I will be back now and then and will stay tuned the next few days to see how you guys respond, but I really am done with this sport. The reason I ask you to think about whether you should continue the next time you are royally screwed by its genius leaders is because I know how hard it is to confront that issue. You really can't complain if you continue to participate and support it.

Anyone have any ideas for a good replacement hobby????...lol


Fantastic post. All of us who have been around this game for a long time have been shat on by the racing industry in some fashion.

Here's my advice for you.

1) enjoy your holidays

2) Get a fresh start in January.

3) Open a telephone account with someone other than River Downs.

4) Never go to River Downs again for any reason.

5) Send this post and thread to the head of the NTRA, let your voice be heard by them.

6) You know how they say that if you are scared of terrorism, the terrorists win? Well, if you quit this game, River Downs wins. Don't let them win. Punish them by not betting at their track ever again...that way, you don't have to punish yourself in order to punish them. Santa Anita, Oaklawn, Gulfstream, etc don't care if you stop going to River Downs. But, River Downs will care. Hurt them in the pocket and let them know about it. Let them know that THEY are one of the reasons the racing industry is going down the tubes.

7) Send a letter to the governor of your state and tell them that because of the general manager of RD ( mention him by name in your letter), you won't be giving their track any more revenue.

Nmytwenties
12-24-2008, 01:22 AM
prox - I really appreciate the insight. You seem like a cool dude. The thing is about the writing was it was motivating to do that when it seemed like it mattered. I soon discovered that there are alot more talkers out there and not enough doers. As far as revolutionary politics go, a gifted speaker is much more valuable to a cause than the written word. A skilled orator is what moves people to act on your ideals and no matter how good of a writer you are, the masses will never be moved to act by the written word but only the spoken word out of the right mouth.

I think if your going to do something you have to do it 100%. I have a fire for anything I do. My business and anything else I choose to tackle

The thing is I no longer have any desire to pick up a form. I usually am thinking about next week on Tuesday but right now I could care less. This latest incident just estiguished it for me.

I have only had one stretch of bad fortune in the year + I have been at it (a three week stretch back in August.)and never once thought about quitting. My experiances I have shared with you in these posts have been over the entire year + I have participated. I was initially shocked when I would go to a mutual window and not get an utterance from the clerk to my "good afternoon" greeting. I mean what the hell. But that didn't make me think about quitting. Having winning selections nullified by machines that "went down" was something I thought I took in stride. I really considered it after the $100 ticket was nullified but I even tolerated that.

At what point do you say enough, I really can't complain if I continue to reinforce their behavior by further participation. Yeah I will miss it but you know what, I would be more pissed at myself if I did continue. I can find something else to do that I can and will have a fire for.

proximity
12-24-2008, 01:28 AM
I don't understand....I thought it was said in this thread that DRF had an article explaining the very legitimate reason the track was closed. Why is that being ignored?

believe me if there was even a single slot machine in that building the heat would have been miraculously turned back on faster than nmy20s could zip up his bengals parka;)

2low
12-24-2008, 01:31 AM
So fire the OTB and hook up with PTC or Twin Spires or something. I haven't read the thread, so if you've stated you can't for some reason, my bad.

Anyway, punishing yourself is not the best course of action ever. Refuse to give the OTB your money, but give it to somebody who will treat you right. Everybody seems to love PTC, plus you get a rebate from them. I can't use them, but I like Twin Spires quite a lot. Lots of ways to figure a race.

Plus, no smelly dudes explaining over and over again how the meatball sandwich has really gone downhill in the past 20 years. No teller holding the singles from your winnings in a death grip. No machine sucking in your voucher and pretending nothing happened. I really hate the OTB. I'd like the track if it was just me and the horses and the other people would go get on the internet at home and leave me alone.

bigmack
12-24-2008, 01:34 AM
I don't understand....I thought it was said in this thread that DRF had an article explaining the very legitimate reason the track was closed. Why is that being ignored?
Why that would bust up a good whine?

Nmytwenties
12-24-2008, 01:35 AM
Hey I'm Riled, i appeciate your suggestions.

I was looking for a suggestion for a new Monday hobby on that list but there was none....lol

As good as your suggestions are I would feel like a putz for wasting my time on it. They wasted 16 hours of my time, I will be damned if they get another hour for a good letter or 10 minutes for a phone call. They don't need any help anyway dude, young guys like me are a dime a dozen for this industry as I think one guy put it.

Believe me I will get over it, might be a day or two more responding to you gents on here and then its old news. I think I have decided on going to the Zoo on Monday, seems like a better prospect for a relaxing fun afternoon than this game is subject to be at times. That is another industry that is struggling a bit, many zoos are always having to ask for assistance from city governments, but at least they seem to care about the customer, never had a single problem on any visit to a zoo.

2low
12-24-2008, 01:38 AM
Hey I'm Riled, i appeciate your suggestions.

I was looking for a suggestion for a new Monday hobby on that list but there was none....lol

As good as your suggestions are I would feel like a putz for wasting my time on it. They wasted 16 hours of my time, I will be damned if they get another hour for a good letter or 10 minutes for a phone call. They don't need any help anyway dude, young guys like me are a dime a dozen for this industry as I think one guy put it.

Believe me I will get over it, might be a day or two more responding to you gents on here and then its old news. I think I have decided on going to the Zoo on Monday, seems like a better prospect for a relaxing fun afternoon than this game is subject to be at times. That is another industry that is struggling a bit, many zoos are always having to ask for assistance from city governments, but at least they seem to care about the customer, never had a single problem on any visit to a zoo.

Tigers ate some drunk dude here last year. Stick to racing.

the little guy
12-24-2008, 01:39 AM
A day or two more????

Why not just write the sequel to War and Peace instead? At the rate you're going it would be shorter.

Nmytwenties
12-24-2008, 01:48 AM
I think I made my view on that clear earlier, maybe you missed it. I think "no heat" should be an issue the customer makes the decision on, they should decide if it is too uncomfortable to stay. I know I am a "whiner" and all but I can stand it being a little cold,no big deal. This might seem a little unreasonable to many but like I said the heat went out earlier this month in my business's building and we didn't close even though it was a bit uncomfortable. No one else in the complex did either and we didn't even consider it. I am sure the track would have opened had it been Breeders Cup day as more money would have been lost on their part.

Had there been a person at the door who delivered a sincere explanation and apology, perhaps some sort of voucher for a couple of free forms. Had I been running the place I would have offered those patrons who showed up for the entire day cards the oppurtunity to place betsat the machines on the first few races so that they could then travel to Lebanon if they wished to continue their day without missing a selection. The thing is, I will say it again, they don't care and they think that miffed customers will come back regardless. Well this little whiner won't be. I mean if I lost a customer that had been a customer for two weeks thats one thing,that's bad enough, but one year??? That is pretty solid patronage. Like I said I just don't know how a business surviives like that.

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 01:52 AM
A day or two more????

Why not just write the sequel to War and Peace instead? At the rate you're going it would be shorter.


Why not stop trying to be a smart asss

proximity
12-24-2008, 01:54 AM
. I think I have decided on going to the Zoo on Monday, .

maybe you could drop a river downs cheeseburger over the rail and handicap which rhinoceros you think will get to it first? you could save on racing forms by using "observation" handicapping like karlskorner!!

the little guy
12-24-2008, 01:58 AM
Why not stop trying to be a smart asss


You better get a sense of humor if you want to survive this game.

Nmytwenties
12-24-2008, 02:01 AM
Some of you seem to understand where I am coming from and I appreciate all of your comments in my defense. And I don't detest all of the comments that are critical.

But that war and peace one did it for me, I realized a minute ago, I am wasting even more time on this game by writing these posts.

Hell with it dude, I am done with writing then too. I thought I would get a little more sympathy from some of you guys but you are obviously cool with the whole ball of wax so, hey I say have at it. Let them treat you like second class citizens, just think about some of the things I have said the next time your about to complain about anything regarding this sport, the only way things change is to stop supporting it.

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 02:10 AM
Some of you seem to understand where I am coming from and I appreciate all of your comments in my defense. And I don't detest all of the comments that are critical.

But that war and peace one did it for me, I realized a minute ago, I am wasting even more time on this game by writing these posts.

Hell with it dude, I am done with writing then too. I thought I would get a little more sympathy from some of you guys but you are obviously cool with the whole ball of wax so, hey I say have at it. Let them treat you like second class citizens, just think about some of the things I have said the next time your about to complain about anything regarding this sport, the only way things change is to stop supporting it.


Thats the way Nmytwenties, let people like Bigmack, TLG have it, they will be first in whinging line when there is no money in pools, i guarantee it

2low
12-24-2008, 02:22 AM
The ADW gods have spoken. OTB sucks.

On the bright side of all this, 16 hours of work and breaking even is a pretty good day for most people from what I understand.

CincyHorseplayer
12-24-2008, 02:32 AM
Some of you seem to understand where I am coming from and I appreciate all of your comments in my defense. And I don't detest all of the comments that are critical.

But that war and peace one did it for me, I realized a minute ago, I am wasting even more time on this game by writing these posts.

Hell with it dude, I am done with writing then too. I thought I would get a little more sympathy from some of you guys but you are obviously cool with the whole ball of wax so, hey I say have at it. Let them treat you like second class citizens, just think about some of the things I have said the next time your about to complain about anything regarding this sport, the only way things change is to stop supporting it.

Don't sweat this Mickey Mouse BS Nmytwenties.These guys think they're being realists when they're really competing as candidates for the a$$hole of the month club.Dime a dozen.You're doing the right thing but not taking it from anybody and ending up as jaded and selfless as these folks.

bigmack
12-24-2008, 02:38 AM
You better get a sense of humor if you want to survive this game.
As much as any knowledge wanting to be imparted, no better example of internet nonsense is brought out than a dopey thread such as this.

Golly, they made me upset. I think I'll quit.
If that's enough to leave, who would be involved in anything?

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 02:50 AM
As much as any knowledge wanting to be imparted, no better example of internet nonsense is brought out than a dopey thread such as this.

Golly, they made me upset. I think I'll quit.
If that's enough to leave, who would be involved in anything?



The internet nonsense is coming from those people stating " good riddance" and those trying to be smart ass

proximity
12-24-2008, 02:53 AM
.You're doing the right thing but not taking it from anybody and ending up as jaded and selfless as these folks.

you better get a sense of jaded selflessness (?) if you want to survive this game!!:)

bigmack
12-24-2008, 03:51 AM
You better get a sense of humor if you want to survive this game.
Dodging the exotic nature of this thread, I wanted to point out what a HUGE point I believe you just made. From my experience, the intellect to survive in this game requires a keen wit. It's fun to be around when you can find it, and it ain't often.

Likewise, whiners ain't exactly a box of chocolates to fraternize w/

ralph_the_cat
12-24-2008, 04:02 AM
People complain about their doctors that end up saving their lives, people complain about their children even though they'd give their life for them,

My 20-something-friend, you love horse racing so much that you claim you are going to walk away just because you were denied access to it... thats love my friend...

If you guys aren't getting it by now you never will, there will always be money in the pools... always...

sure a track will close here and there, you think thats never happened before?...


hmm... you'll bet on another sport right?... sure and you wont get fed up with that sport either... right?... you wont find anything to complain about... right?...

The day people stop complaining about our sport... is the day pools are at $0, and all tracks are closed... the same day when there are no handicappers that care to play there will be no handicappers that care to complain...

Do you have the right to complain?... of course you do... but you dont have the heart to walk away, so why claim you are... those that claimed to have "walked away" were never here to stay or dont yet realize that they'll be back... I would find it odd to come across a guy on a handicapping forum that claims to have "walked away"... wouldnt you?...

Happy Holidays to everyone, spend your money this week on your family, horse racing will survive a week with out it... :)

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 04:51 AM
If you guys aren't getting it by now you never will, there will always be money in the pools... always...


It's the racing industry that ain't getting it Ralph, they are driving the Doug Hillstrom's , the Nmytwenties of this world away


What does this do?? reduce liquidity, what does this do, weaken already weak markets, what does this do?? drive other players away, what does this do?? weaken markets further. driving more people away, leaving whats left for people like Ralph, Bigmack, TLG


I wish them all the best in placing a decent bet and getting a decent divvi, in such weak markets

HUSKER55
12-24-2008, 05:49 AM
You can get crappy service at Wal-Mart. Do you think they really care? Wal-Mart treats their customers like dirt and no one cares. Hell, they have brought second rate drugs, and diseased food from China, even distressed baby formula.

Customer service is a thing of the past. Why do you think the internet is prospering?
There are ways around the problems NMT was complaiing about. But if he does not want to do it then that is his choice and he made it. There is a certain thrill being at the track that the internet can not replace. If that is what has the most value then his decision is obvious.

WinterTriangle
12-24-2008, 05:54 AM
Badcompany - I am surprised that you seem to think that all people who follow the sport are not interested in anything else other that betting. I would like to think most people on this board are not like that maybe I am wrong.

Can only speak for myself, but when I want to study hard, hunker down and try to win some $, I stay home and use my online account. I can concentrate better, watch the tote, key in my own wagers, and then sit back and watch the race.

When live racing comes to Oaklawn, I go to watch the horses run. It's an excuse to get out in January, Feb, and March when the weather isn't great, and then I wager for fun, just to cover the cost of my "day" at the track and a great corned beef sandwich. It's purely entertainment.

It's exhausting sometimes to find parking, deal with uncomfortable seating, waiting in a line to wager with a clerk, and keep track of physical pieces of paper (tickets), my purse, my notes, my money. The lighting is dim, I can't use my laptop and wouldn't anyway, just something else to keep track of and worry that it will be stolen and another heavy object to carry around. The air quality in there is bad, perhaps from paper dust and dirt track ... I come home conjested EVERY time I go.

I have never been able to really relax and concentrate AT the track.

As for the game itself, I have tons of friends who are just really into pedigree and breeding, and do nothing but track maidens, etc. It's a hobby, they don't even wager. Maybe just on the big Derbies and/or Breeders Cup, etc. For them, it's fun, fascinating, esp. for someone who loves details.

There's all kinds of "interest" in this game and it's not just for "gamblers" IMHO.

nMyTwenties, I will say this: all the advances, and improvements in the world, have been accomplished because somebody wanted to IMPROVE something. They saw something wrong, and set out to talk about it, ask others, and get the ball rolling on solutions. I truly do not understand people who say "quit whining". I applaud you for taking the time and making the effort to put your thoughts out there. !!!!

boomman
12-24-2008, 09:56 AM
Tigers ate some drunk dude here last year. Stick to racing.

HYSTERICAL! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Boomer

miesque
12-24-2008, 10:08 AM
Some of you seem to understand where I am coming from and I appreciate all of your comments in my defense. And I don't detest all of the comments that are critical.

But that war and peace one did it for me, I realized a minute ago, I am wasting even more time on this game by writing these posts.

Hell with it dude, I am done with writing then too. I thought I would get a little more sympathy from some of you guys but you are obviously cool with the whole ball of wax so, hey I say have at it. Let them treat you like second class citizens, just think about some of the things I have said the next time your about to complain about anything regarding this sport, the only way things change is to stop supporting it.

Nmytwenties - I sincerely hope you don't let some of the negative comments on this thread turn you against handicapping and the game, we sorely need an infusion of new, younger blood to the sport, especially at a time when people are leaving it. I was initially not going to post in this thread but I personally have found some of the responses to your comments to be a bit appalling and consider them an illustration of a serious problem this sport is facing, most especially in light of where they are coming from and customer service in the racing world is a big push button issue for me. Its one thing to respectfully disagree with a persons opinion but this take it or leave it you whiny baby attitude and good riddance by some is an amazing illustration of one of many reasons why racing is facing an uphill battle attracting new horseplayers, fans, owners, etc to the game. If you profess to love horse racing, you should not be trying your best to humiliate and berate people who are pointing out deficiencies in their experiences.

First of all, lets go back to your McDonalds example. Due to poor experiences at your nearest McDonalds, you have not stopped eating at all of their franchises but instead you have shifted your patronage to one which is further away but obviously the improved overall experience is such that it more then compensates for the extra time and effort of going the extra distance otherwise you wouldn't do it. I think that situation is very applicable in the sport of Thoroughbred racing and the fact that you have had bad experiences at River Downs does not in and of itself mean you should stop patronizing the sport of horse racing. While I have never stepped foot in River Downs, I have spent time in quite a few different racetracks across the country of varying levels from the marquee to blue collar and I can tell you that there is a vast discrepancy in customer service ranging from attrocious (NYRA) to pretty decent (Arlington Park) and everything in between. Now as a customer you can (and should) make the decision as to which track most deserves your patronage based on your experiences and spend your money accordingly. Before you storm away from a game you obviously enjoy, I would highly recommend taking the time to experience racing at other venues and see if you still feel the same way. Also, please keep in mind that while you may consider no heat to not be a big deal, the more elderly usually account for a pretty significant percentage of patrons at most tracks as well as the workers therein and they tend to not be enamoured by freezing. This was obviously an inconvenience to you and I can understand that, but it sounds like this occurence was an isolated incident. Now if they started closing once a week without notice due to heating issues and fail to fix the problem, thats a different story.

Lastly, as a very general comment from an inmythirties to an inmytwenties (which I hope you don't take offense to), I would like to point out that perfection is a nice concept and goal but if you are going to require that standard for everything you are going to find it tougher and tougher to be happy with anyone or anything because true perfection is almost impossible to find. Also remember everything is relative.

JustRalph
12-24-2008, 11:43 AM
Wow, I never dreamed this thread would go this far....... :lol: Hysterical. I gotta lean on the side with BigMack and TLG on this one.

I see a 28 yr old kid who got pissed in albeit a crappy situation, but instead of chalking it up to being just caught up in bad turn of events..........he came home and wrote a rant about how bad the business is. Threw the game under the bus publicly........ which is a damn easy thing to do considering how they act.

After the rant he finds out that the place had a legitimate reason to close. He gets 4 pages worth of attention out of it. NYM20 There has been some sage advice in this thread. I suggest you re-read some of it.

If you are lucky you won't go through much more traumatic events than finding the OTB closed........

If you are going to react like this to this situation you need to grow up a little. You are going to face much tougher in your life. Get over it and stop whining. Now get to work on next weeks card for Monday.

For those of you who are screaming that the game needs to figure out how to keep guys like this in the sport, what the hell are you talking about? The damn place closed because it didn't have any heat!!! The game didn't conspire against the kid. And for those of you who don't know, fixing a HVAC problem can take a few days. There are situations where the building is locked down and forced to close also. They may not have had a choice, slots or not. :bang: :bang:

DanG
12-24-2008, 12:00 PM
Isn’t this guy glad he decided to vent here.

Merry Christmas to all.

njcurveball
12-24-2008, 12:08 PM
Just one more bad beat. Put it behind you and have a Merry Christmas. We all remember the horse that won when we got shut out trying to bet. We rarely if ever remember the losers we got shut out trying to bet.

It is an interesting story and I am sure we all have our version of this if we have been around the game long enough. A long while back I handicapped a Meadowlands card in January and went to ACRC to bet it. Their gates were locked and I assumed the track closed. This was before the Internet and my next choice to bet would have been a 2 hour ride in the snow.

Turns out they ran, my bets written on the program would have made over $1,000 and I had the choice of beating myself up about it or putting it in the rear view mirror.

Thank goodness there wasn't a forum back then because not only would I beat myself up, but many others would just love to join in. :mad:

Have a great holidays Nmytwenties! Put it in the rear view mirror and come out swinging in 2009!

Jim

the little guy
12-24-2008, 12:18 PM
Isn’t this guy glad he decided to vent here.



Venting is one thing....this goes far beyond that. The sanctimonious behavoir in this thread is way over the top. Surely you see that Dan. Sorry, but one of the reasons this game is so great is just that it is so brutal that a thick skin and a good sense of humor are both absolute requirements.

Please, I could post endlessly about my dedication to the game, and the unending hours of my life I dedicate to it, but that's just more self-serving crap. We do it because we love it and wouldn't have it any other way. Thankfully I am able to laugh when my friends make fun of me when I get overly frustrated. To quote a man VERY high on the Hinsdale list of creditors......" be a man Andy. "

You better be one to survive this game.

DeanT
12-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Nice avatar Ralph! :)

I did not read this kids post being about the place being closed. It looked like that was simply the culmination of the frustration. He speaks of bad tellers, bad service, bad prices, bad food etc.

I think it was kind of a poignant rant, as far as rants go. People in racing say that ADW is stealing from them and cannibalizing wagering. This post seems to point out that it is not doing that, it is just getting people away from situations like this, that have gone on for like 50 years in our business.

njcurveball
12-24-2008, 12:20 PM
one of the reasons this game is so great is just that it is so brutal that a thick skin and a good sense of humor are both absolute requirements.



Well this basically paints a clear picture why young fans are attracted to it. And I thought it was about the horses. :bang:

Light
12-24-2008, 12:38 PM
I doubt it would be compatible with the conditions of a commercial operating permit to run a facility without heat when required.

Bubba X
12-24-2008, 12:43 PM
I wonder if the folks casting a jaundiced eye at NYM's vent are a bit older than late 20's. My guess would be they, like me, are in the 40+ group. I remember being a fan of racing before ADW's, OTBs, on-line live video, replays and simulcasting. I remember things like having to go to the track to make a wager, late-night outings to get the next day's DRF and, especially, being at the track (after a drive of up to three hours) when the day's card got cancelled at 12:00 noon.

Problems aside, there is no doubt in my mind that the wagering aspect of the sport is better than ever. I can follow and wager on whatever circuit I want, either at the track or in my living room. I can watch replays over and over and I have tools like Formulator that didn't exist when I was 28.

I just think the 20-somethings have a different mindset and expectations than people just a half-generation or so older.

happy holidays to all.

DanG
12-24-2008, 01:02 PM
Venting is one thing....this goes far beyond that. The sanctimonious behavoir in this thread is way over the top. Surely you see that Dan. Sorry, but one of the reasons this game is so great is just that it is so brutal that a thick skin and a good sense of humor are both absolute requirements.

Please, I could post endlessly about my dedication to the game, and the unending hours of my life I dedicate to it, but that's just more self-serving crap. We do it because we love it and wouldn't have it any other way. Thankfully I am able to laugh when my friends make fun of me when I get overly frustrated. To quote a man VERY high on the Hinsdale list of creditors......" be a man Andy. "

You better be one to survive this game.
I agree in one sense; but our interpretations of humor and sarcasm differ slightly. (Not that that’s a bad thing) You have to remember; I’ve been out of the north east for many years now and I’ve lost some of that sledgehammer edge in discourse.

Enjoy your New Years Andy

miesque
12-24-2008, 01:04 PM
Maybe this all boils down to the fact that racetracks and OTBs should have an appropriate disclaimer when you walk in such as


"Warning - If you are not a grumpy, bitter, old, crusty male you may not find the service here to your liking."

Then techinically nobody can complain since they were warned. That seems to be the point that is being made.

ralph_the_cat
12-24-2008, 01:20 PM
It's the racing industry that ain't getting it Ralph, they are driving the Doug Hillstrom's , the Nmytwenties of this world away



LOL, so you think Nmy20s isnt going to bet anymore... :lol:

The Rivers Down Facility closed on a Monday afternoon a couple days before christmas when it was 2 degrees and there were 2 tb tracks running... rather than keep an entire facility up and running for 3 bettors to show up to bet on where they wouldnt make enough money to pay for the employees to run the joint... they closed it... They dont get it?... lol, so you really believe this is going to push away nmy20s from the sport... whos not getting it?... The Charlie Ds of the world...

GaryG
12-24-2008, 01:45 PM
I can not imagine going out to River Downs in 2 deg temp when I can bet from right here in my warm office. I even get table service if my wife isn't mad at me. Like TLG said, those of us that have been around this game for a long time do it because we love it. I could give you horror stories of mutuel clerks on strike, bridges out etc, but what the hell, it's racing.

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 01:46 PM
LOL, so you think Nmy20s isnt going to bet anymore... :lol:





This he/she's a gambling addict, they will be back attitude is the exact attitude that leads to high take and weak pools

What is the take?? HIGH, what are the pools???WEAK






Merry Xmas


A frustrated and fed up US racing fan

bigmack
12-24-2008, 01:55 PM
You can get crappy service at Wal-Mart. Do you think they really care? Wal-Mart treats their customers like dirt and no one cares. Hell, they have brought second rate drugs, and diseased food from China, even distressed baby formula.

Customer service is a thing of the past. Why do you think the internet is prospering?
Of all the garrulous posts in this thread this one is beautiful. May I use that that line over Christmas dinner? I can hear it now; Listen up folks, you have to realize the internet is popular because customer service at places like WalMart is lousy. :lol: :lol:

I have to assume people actually think things like that but you never hear them in real life. Thank goodness for the internet, and its 'popularity'

jballscalls
12-24-2008, 02:39 PM
This thread has been fantastic to read. Both educational, entertaining and appalling at the same time.

First things first. Its bad what happened to Nmytwenties. However, i called some people at RD and they said exactly what Ralph said, the boiler in the clubhouse was down and it was literally 10 degrees in there. So instead of letting their employees and players freeze and work in unacceptable conditions, they closed the place down. Unfortunate, absolutely and i'm sure its something their working to remedy sooner than later.

The things i love in this thread in the sides people are taking. There are the usual suspects who just tie this into the same argument they always have "racing is anti fan, hates the fans, ****s the bettors, we're never coming back."

And then there are the "it is what it is, just deal with it" group. Nothing is going to ever change, either beat the game as it is, or learn to accept losing"

I left this site like 7 months ago and came back a couple weeks ago, and in that time its turned into a big crybaby fest here. It's kinda sad, but the good part is there is SOME constructive dialogue going on.

Bad things happen in this game all the time, just like bad things happen in every game. Every sport jacks up ticket prices to the moon, every year!! Are they anti fan?? I've driven to baseball games to play just to have them rained out when i was in high school. I drove an hour, got all warmed up to play, and then a little drizzle rained it out, but did i quit baseball?.

I remember driving to Portland Meadows my first year i worked there and after a 2.5 hour drive, got to work and the little guys cancelled cause it was too windy. Was i upset, absolutely. But it wasnt Racing's fault. It wasnt anyones fault, things just happen. And i was out not only gas money, but a day's pay. But you suck it up and you move on. Life's not fair. Racing is not fair. Are there certain things that need changing.............ABSOLUTELY. And i know on my end, we're trying our ass' off to make things better for our customers, and hopefully every other track in the country will do their part to try and improve customer service.

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 02:49 PM
in that time its turned into a big crybaby fest here


Well, thats what happens when people get frustrated and fed up, have had enough of being shat on and if racing rulers have the same attitude as some on this thread there's more frustration, more being shat coming in 2009


Merry Xmas

jballscalls
12-24-2008, 02:54 PM
Well, thats what happens when people have had enough of being shat on and if racing rulers have the same attitude as some on this thread there's more shat coming in 2009

I understand, it just seems more exclusive to this site than some of the others.

I guess as a player i just dont feel shat on, but maybe my experience is different than the others. I'm a long term losing bettor, but thats my fault not anyone elses.

ralph_the_cat
12-24-2008, 03:02 PM
Pretty odd that the biggest "fed-up" player on here is a guy from the UK, in a thread thats about United States OTBs and Racing Facilities... :ThmbDown:

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 03:05 PM
Pretty odd that the biggest "fed-up" player on here is a guy from the UK, in a thread thats about United States OTBs and Racing Facilities... :ThmbDown:


Pretty odd that you use where i come from in your post

Is this a US v UK pissing contest now???

speldedo
12-24-2008, 03:09 PM
Sorry, but being a dedicated horseplayer is ALL about how well you deal with frustration. This board is full of people who love the game, and have dedicated a great deal of their lives to that end, and I can guarantee you we have all dealt with a lot more frustrations without all the histrionics. It simply goes with the territory.

How many combined hours of our lives have been wasted with hard work scoping out a live longshot, only to get to the track and find it scratched....and then entered in the wrong spot the next time? For most of us the beauty outweighs the pain.....you just have to find it and deal with the rest.

Greatest game in the world.


I agree with you little guy. Several people have suggested ways to improve nmt's experience (i.e. use the self serve terminals, open an ADW account) but he doesn't really seem to want to make the effort - you can always make an excuse (the self serve terminals are hard to work with). I think it's a good idea for him to hit the road. I thought I was type A, but wow this guy has taken it to a whole new level.

ralph_the_cat
12-24-2008, 03:09 PM
Im not saying Im getting shit on by UK OTBs and Racing Facilities am I?...

speldedo
12-24-2008, 03:16 PM
A day or two more????

Why not just write the sequel to War and Peace instead? At the rate you're going it would be shorter.

Laughed my as off!:lol::lol::lol:

Steve 'StatMan'
12-24-2008, 03:17 PM
Well, if you're still reading the thread NYM20, if you've invested a serious amount of time learning this game and trying to get good at it, I'd hate to see you let this incident turn thousands of hours worth of study away.

Legit problems or not, Ohio does have limited options as far for off-track betting, as one must go to another track, and I don't think all tracks are even open for simulcasting all year long - at least not in the River-Beulah-Lebanon situation anyway.

If you don't want to throw the game away, as so many others have said, get an online account or two that cover the tracks you (still) care about. That way, you're far less likely to get shut out (unfortunate things can happen sometimes online as well.) Try to bullet proof your betting options as best you can, so you have your first plan and alternates.

Live will be full of disappointments, however. As others have said, best to learn to roll with them - and being prepared in advance for as many of them, and keeping ones perspective is one of the best ways to do that.

Having learned most things the hard way, as maybe we all do, I'll share one last thing I learned for now - being smart is no guarantee of happiness.

Steve 'StatMan'
12-24-2008, 03:18 PM
Ah! No need to write River Downs. Email a link to this thread.

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 03:24 PM
Im not saying Im getting shit on by UK OTBs and Racing Facilities am I?...



Thats because UK OTB's don't shut doors on you and i don't think i'm complaining about racing facilities, the original poster is

jballscalls
12-24-2008, 03:29 PM
Ah! No need to write River Downs. Email a link to this thread.

already been done!

Bubba X
12-24-2008, 03:32 PM
Thats because UK OTB's don't shut doors on you and i don't think i'm complaining about racing facilities, the original poster is
Do the OTB tellers wear football pants and wigs?

ralph_the_cat
12-24-2008, 03:37 PM
In the UK they would keep the OTBs open with 10 degree temps INSIDE?... you guys must be some degenerate players over there... the original poster complained about an experience he had in a US OTB... Suddenly a UK player feels the need to continually comment on US Racing... while the original guy wasnt even as hard headed as you...


I made comments directed at nmy20's... but you decided to bring MY name up in your posts in a negative manner... and claiming you get shit on by US racing?... your in the UK, How in the hell does US OTBs and facilities shit on you... you're just a bitter UK player... I think you made that clear in this thread... now go ahead, and keep commenting in a thread about US OTBs and Racing from your home in the UK... I suddenly dont care... enjoy your amazing OTBs and racing in the UK... we'll miss you :liar:

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 03:39 PM
Do the OTB tellers wear football pants and wigs?



I can't recall coming across a teller dressed like that in my town Bubba, but they may do

Charlie D
12-24-2008, 03:47 PM
In the UK they would keep the OTBs open with 10 degree temps INSIDE?... you guys must be some degenerate players over there... the original poster complained about an experience he had in a US OTB... Suddenly a UK player feels the need to continually comment on US Racing... while the original guy wasnt even as hard headed as you...


I made comments directed at nmy20's... but you decided to bring MY name up in your posts in a negative manner... and claiming you get shit on by US racing?... your in the UK, How in the hell does US OTBs and facilities shit on you... you're just a bitter UK player... I think you made that clear in this thread... now go ahead, and keep commenting in a thread about US OTBs and Racing from your home in the UK... I suddenly dont care... enjoy your amazing OTBs and racing in the UK... we'll miss you :liar:



My comments are in response to others comments posted and if that was out of order, i apologise


Anyway, enough of the internet nonsense from me


Merry Xmas and all the best with your picks in 2009

Light
12-24-2008, 03:50 PM
Maybe NMT's hasnt been around enough to enjoy some of the more serious unpleasantness of this game.How about an inquiry that could go either way and costs you hundreds or even thousands of dollars. How about pissing yourself off by changing your mind on a bet and costing yourself big time. How about finding out the horse you bet on to win a month ago that finished second was awarded first place money because the winner used drugs but you get squat. How about watching a jockey or a horse break a limb. How about some of the unscrupulous breeding in the industry.How about the way horses are treated in retirement. Having a race track facility close for a day is the least of the problems with this industry.

bigmack
12-24-2008, 03:59 PM
Having a race track facility close for a day is the least of the problems with this industry.
On that note I bring you The Winstons

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/amen_brother.jpg

HUSKER55
12-24-2008, 04:01 PM
Of all the garrulous posts in this thread this one is beautiful. May I use that that line over Christmas dinner? I can hear it now; Listen up folks, you have to realize the internet is popular because customer service at places like WalMart is lousy. :lol: :lol:

I have to assume people actually think things like that but you never hear them in real life. Thank goodness for the internet, and its 'popularity'


You know bigmack, I never realized how many people were offended until a young couple moved in about 3 blocks over from us. He has a job and she does shopping for people that don't like to shop. She came to our house the other day, during the blizzard, and asked if we needed anything and we got into a talk.

Would you believe, that (customer service) is the main reason for the growth in her business. It is like Mary said. "Maybe you are the only bastard in town".:D Hard to believe but she has a new jeep and I don't.

MONEY
12-24-2008, 04:03 PM
Maybe NMT's hasnt been around enough to enjoy some of the more serious unpleasantness of this game.How about an inquiry that could go either way and costs you hundreds or even thousands of dollars. How about pissing yourself off by changing your mind on a bet and costing yourself big time. How about finding out the horse you bet on to win a month ago that finished second was awarded first place money because the winner used drugs but you get squat. How about watching a jockey or a horse break a limb. How about some of the unscrupulous breeding in the industry.How about the way horses are treated in retirement. Having a race track facility close for a day is the least of the problems with this industry.

How about betting a triple at your local NY OTB on a simulcast track, then going home and watching your triple come in a pay $10,000. Then going back to the OTB to cash and find out that NY OTB canceled all the bets with the host track because of a dispute over the share of the signal money, and you wind up getting only a refund.
It happened to me.

money

jballscalls
12-24-2008, 04:08 PM
How about betting a triple at your local NY OTB on a simulcast track, then going home and watching your triple come in a pay $10,000. Then going back to the OTB to cash and find out that NY OTB canceled all the bets with the host track because of a dispute over the share of the signal money, and you wind up getting only a refund.
It happened to me.

money

Now that hurts!!

2low
12-24-2008, 04:14 PM
How about betting a triple at your local NY OTB on a simulcast track, then going home and watching your triple come in a pay $10,000. Then going back to the OTB to cash and find out that NY OTB canceled all the bets with the host track because of a dispute over the share of the signal money, and you wind up getting only a refund.
It happened to me.

money

Ouch.

I think we have a winner:eek:

(the rest is not directed at MONEY or anybody in specific. Just my thoughts)


signal limits and not closing the pools at post time are about the only thing I don't like at the moment. Everything else that goes wrong is my fault, or can be done differently.

If I lose, it's because I'm not properly valuing my horse or my wager/bankroll ratio is out of whack.
If I get shut out, it's because I didn't bet soon enough.
If I don't like the food, I can pack a lunch.
If I don't like the OTB I can wager online.
If my ADW sucks I can pick a new one or go to the OTB.

on
and
on
and
on

No point in crying about that which you can fix.

Either enjoy the races or don't, but it is your fault if you don't. And you can quit if you aren't willing to make necessary changes.

NMT isn't willing to make the changes, so he's quitting. Fine and dandy by me:)

jballscalls
12-24-2008, 04:22 PM
Ouch.

I think we have a winner:eek:

(the rest is not directed at MONEY or anybody in specific. Just my thoughts)


signal limits and not closing the pools at post time are about the only thing I don't like at the moment. Everything else that goes wrong is my fault, or can be done differently.

If I lose, it's because I'm not properly valuing my horse or my wager/bankroll ratio is out of whack.
If I get shut out, it's because I didn't bet soon enough.
If I don't like the food, I can pack a lunch.
If I don't like the OTB I can wager online.
If my ADW sucks I can pick a new one or go to the OTB.

on
and
on
and
on

No point in crying about that which you can fix.

Either enjoy the races or don't, but it is your fault if you don't. And you can quit if you aren't willing to make necessary changes.

NMT isn't willing to make the changes, so he's quitting. Fine and dandy by me:)

I agree with this post completely. That being said there are improvements that do need to be made in the game.

2low
12-24-2008, 04:26 PM
I agree with this post completely. That being said there are improvements that do need to be made in the game.

Oh, without a doubt improvements can be made. I'm also not advocating sitting silently and accepting whatever comes down the pipe. We need people looking out for the player to be sure.

However, I think the way it is at this moment is perfectly enjoyable if you don't get bogged down in the details. It should be fun.

porchy44
12-24-2008, 04:36 PM
2 four dollar cheeseburgers as well on top of the 2 dollars for the table, which the dumbass that takes the ticket for that beats me to table before I can even get there (they never miss their customer service obligations when it comes to you paying these fees, can't tell you how many people I have seen run out of empty seats because they don't have a $2 ticket, probably alienating them too.).

l


Go to McDonalds before you enter the track. Put a $1 double cheeseburger in each jacket pocket, and smile as you read the "NO outside food or drinks allowed" sign, thinking to yourself you just saved $6 dollars.

proximity
12-24-2008, 06:49 PM
. To quote a man VERY high on the Hinsdale list of creditors......" be a man Andy. "
.

this wasn't the same man who once punched a defenseless press box wall at gp was it?? :)

cj
12-24-2008, 07:09 PM
I can answer that...no.

proximity
12-24-2008, 07:37 PM
I can answer that...no.

well that's good!! we wouldn't want nmy20s to go thinking it's ok to lash out like that when his second choice gets dq'd at single digit odds or anything!! :)

the little guy
12-24-2008, 07:46 PM
well that's good!! we wouldn't want nmy20s to go thinking it's ok to lash out like that when his second choice gets dq'd at single digit odds or anything!! :)


We don't have to worry about that.....his act of aggression is to beat a message board silly with 20,000 words in an hour.

proximity
12-24-2008, 07:49 PM
We don't have to worry about that.....his act of aggression is to beat a message board silly with 20,000 words in an hour.:lol:

lol, i guess the keyboard is mightier than the fist!! :D

michiken
12-24-2008, 07:53 PM
20...

as you get older, life only gets worse than a otb closing..

you could get prostate problems.

your sex drive goes down.

your hair starts falling out.

your bones ache with arthritis.

people die and leave you alone.

YOU are YOUNG! so take the time to make life Enjoyable!

Good Luck in whatever you do!

JustRalph
12-24-2008, 08:42 PM
We don't have to worry about that.....his act of aggression is to beat a message board silly with 20,000 words in an hour.

:lol:

JustRalph
12-24-2008, 10:20 PM
go ahead, quit cold turkey

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=cronley_jay&id=3755444

the little guy
12-24-2008, 10:43 PM
go ahead, quit cold turkey

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=cronley_jay&id=3755444


" All winners have value "


Um.....no they don't.

samyn on the green
12-24-2008, 11:57 PM
What the heck are you doing buying $5 racing forms at the track and depending on the track being open to make a wager. Not only are you wasting money on racing forms/gas you are wasting natural resources. You obviously have access to a computer, why don't you use it for something else other than complaining. This is almost 2009 and your New Years resolution should be to open an on-line wagering account so you can bet at home or on the run. Then instead of wasting $5 on the form just print the damn thing out at home. You will save time, money and future frustrating moments.

I think the industry has to assemble care teams to go door to door to show the fossils that follow this game just how easy it can be. Now that you haved saved all this time and money on steps 1 and 2 you can work on shaving that 16 hour capping time allocation down too. This game is good if you are just fairly sharp.

Donnie
12-25-2008, 12:06 AM
nmytwenties--
Pretty sure you are still reading this thread. I would be.
Bummer situation, but not the end of the world. Lots of good suggestions here. Question:
Why haven't you turned to an Internet based ADW yet? You're obviously computer literate. You have a good writing style.
I'll ask the question everyone else has been afraid to ask:
How much do you want for all your books, systems and software? Sounds like you won't be needing them much anymore! :D
Merry Christmas man!
A new year starts in 7 days! Whole new attitude, Baby!!!

raybo
12-25-2008, 01:27 AM
Anyone have any ideas for a good replacement hobby????...lol

Yeah, the stock market. It's basically the same game, and requires many of the same skills and methods.

joelouis
12-25-2008, 05:15 AM
With the handicapping side of it aside, which I will admit it takes me longer to be accurate as I have to check and recheck things, it really benefits me at the track. I have spotted about a dozen errors on tickets since the mistake in May that I have been able to fix in time. And I don't speak with a stutter or anything either...lol...it's just apathy from the tellers, that's it. I don't know how you can avoid problems like this if your not checking things like a hawk.

Just to clarify on the OCD, I am just a freak when it comes to not losing stuff and not forgetting stuff. Basically deal with it by writing down stuff, reminders. I am not one that worries in the least about dieseses and stuff like that.

Tell me what makes you HAPPY? Is this your life Gambling, how sad.

Zman179
12-25-2008, 09:01 AM
I remember driving to Portland Meadows my first year i worked there and after a 2.5 hour drive, got to work and the little guys cancelled cause it was too windy. Was i upset, absolutely. But it wasnt Racing's fault. It wasnt anyones fault, things just happen. And i was out not only gas money, but a day's pay.

Now THAT puts everything into perspective. You go to a track and it cancels, then you simply go someplace else or head back home. JBalls goes to a track and it cancels, he doesn't get paid! Damn!

I feel like I don't have the liberty to complain any more after that. :faint:

affirmedny
12-25-2008, 11:06 AM
Why didn't he just go to Turfway? 15-20 minutes away

Driving directions to Turfway Park Race Course
15.1 mi – about 18 mins

MMM59
12-25-2008, 02:15 PM
....start going to strip clubs instead, about the same financial outlay and the fillies are more reliable.

JustRalph
12-25-2008, 02:22 PM
....start going to strip clubs instead, about the same financial outlay and the fillies are more reliable.

yep, but instead of the fillies taking the antibiotics, you will be taking them..............

dylbert
12-25-2008, 07:56 PM
Life imitating art. Very similar thing happened to Matt Bosch in Mark Cramer's novel, Scared Money.

Get over your bad beat. Probably countless others have similar stories. My least favorite is card gets cancelled AFTER you've made it to track!

Greyfox
12-25-2008, 11:35 PM
Life.

098poi
12-25-2008, 11:52 PM
With Christmas chores and obligations finally behind me (I could whine but I am very fortunate so I must remember to be grateful) this thread has made me reflect a little. How spoiled we are with the ability to handicap and play so many tracks from the comfort of our home. I wonder now how I was able to handle one track, Hollywood or Santa Anita. Only nine races to play like them or not. If you wanted to play you had to go to the track (at least I did, no bookie). But the wonder of winning, breaking even or being completely defeated and leaving the track with head down only to bump in to what, tomorrow's form!! Yes now there was hope! A new day, a fresh form, it could all turn around! I don't seem to get that feeling anymore. Spoiled I guess.

Merry Christmas all!!!!!!!!

thespaah
12-26-2008, 12:36 AM
bigmack - Why do you think I am seriously upset?? I assure you this is not something I am seriously upset about, it's really just a matter of me having my fill of the BS. I assure you I am not viewing myself as the most cheated person in the world. There are people who are losing their homes and other similar hardships and I happen to be doing very well right now business wise. I have nothing to be upset about in the overall scheme of things.

I am simply not going to waste my free time with it anymore when I am subject to so much BS. Why reward apathy and indifference, do you have any standards of performance you expect a place of business to achieve?? I would not be quitting if there had been a blizzard and all other businesses had been closed as I would have taken into account the circumstances, it just wasn't the case here.

Are you a parent BigMack??? I am not but using your apparent train of thought you would allow your children to do whatever they wanted regardless of the rules and reward them regardless of their behavior. If you think I am unreasonable and think I should spend money at a resturant that, for whatever reason (they don't care or they can't understand English to properly process my order, whatever the reason) can't get it right or if you think I should be ok with my time being wasted handicapping races that I can't even wager on because the place decides to close when they are scheduled to be open then I can only imagine that you would allow your kids to do whatever they wanted as well regardless of if they follow your rules or not.

Your expectations (which are evidently none) are just what enable this industry to operate as it does. Didn't know that it was unreasonable to expect a place to open when they are scheduled to. It's really not that big of a deal to me, I am not going to support it anymore so I am content.
I am going thru this thread and I realize there are two items that jump off the page.. #1..why are you using tellers? I saw your answer to that question and I just do not buy it. I have used various types of wagering machines and while some are more complex than other, I get used to them pretty quick. Next..I noticed you stated you have had to return to get your tickets fixed. Now I have been to at least 30 different race tracks up and down the east coast. And there is one constant.In fact it is a rule that every racing jusrisdiction I have been in upholds. That is to check your tickets before leaving the window. And you do not do this why?
You admit to being OCD. You expect perfection from services rendered to you. Now look, I am a stickler for doing one's job. But for christ's sake, Perfection? Perhaps your OCD makes you a bit high maintenence. I respect your decsion not to return to RD But you can wager on line.
Take a break. Go on line and wager at your leisure from home. If you want to punish RD I am with you. But it's silly to trash the whole thing..
Be happy for crying out loud. Come back strong in the New Year. ANd if you really want to get back at the business...hit a bunch of bets and make money!!!!!

raybo
12-26-2008, 07:39 AM
I can understand your dissatisfaction over your experience. I can understand your decision to never patronize RD. As a mater of fact I can understand your not wanting to patronize any track, live. I quit going to the track years ago, except for maybe a couple of times per year, if that, as a diversion, but I don't wager at the track, ever.

What I don't understand is, if 16 hours of handicapping is required for you to do 5 tracks, full fields or not is irrelevant, you must either love pouring over the Form and writing notes and highlighting things, or you love punishment. My goodness, if I had to work at handicapping more than an hour per track I'd quit, too.

My question is, "Why have you not figured out that most of the stuff you do prior to the opening of wagering, can be done on your computer in just a few minutes per race without having to buy some supposed "black box" that does it all for you"? If nothing else, write a program in Excel to crunch the numbers and highlight things for you. If you don't know how, just ask here and you'll get all the help you need.

My second question has already been asked, without a reply by you. That is, "Why don't you become a member of an ADW, throw a few bucks into the account, sit back with a cold drink and some snacks, turn on the stereo and wager from the peace and quiet of your own home"? Or, if you like distractions, which is all I ever got from going to the track, then find a hotspot, plug in your laptop and wager away. Gosh, there are so many alternatives for you, why would you give up something that you obviously enjoy and, according to your statement, are doing pretty good at, just because you have bad experiences with track management and employees?

Why don't you tell us the real reason you started this thread, yeah we know the state of the industry sucks right now, that's a given, that's why we started HANA, are you a member? If you want to make things better, get on board.

Maybe you just needed to vent and decided to do it here. Who knows, but your reasoning to quit racing doesn't jive with many of us here.

Lasix67
12-26-2008, 09:56 AM
I just wonder if customer service is the biggest problem we face in this game as players. I've always been of the belief that players are looked at as low life scum degenerates. I sometimes have a feeling of shame when telling people my true passion, due to the perception. I for one have invested in a nice setup at home to watch all the races and play online at one of my three accounts which just about covers all interest, and at the same time it allows me the freedom to use my own restrooms and smoke my cigars or eat and drink for a reasonable price and as I want to without paying a entrance fee. I love this sport and still enjoy going to the track nearby at Evangeline and a couple of times a year riding into my birthtown of New Orleans to visit the Fairgrounds, which I did for Thanksgiving and I must admit has made tremendous upgrades to the facility, especially the new slot casino. Of course my complaint about going to the track is the lack of quality customer service. It would be nice if for once you felt like your buisiness was so much apprieciated, but that is why I choose to play primarily from home. If there is something I miss or wish I could have more of in this passion of mine is other players to participate with. I have been self taught and with the exception of a casual family member wanting to play on a couple of days a year, it is usually a love that is done solo, and maybe that isn't such a bad thing. I only hope is that this wonderful sport can grow and I wonder if new players can be attracted to this beautiful game with so many other oppertunities out there that offer better services ie. poker, casino gaming, and yes even the stock market. I saw something on tv the other day about college grads, ( in particular and example of Penn. University) were not interested in jobs in medicine and law, but more than 60% were entering the job market in none other than investment banking, and financial marketing. I thought that was quite interesting for what it's worth.

JustRalph
12-26-2008, 11:16 AM
I just wonder if customer service is the biggest problem we face in this game as players. I've always been of the belief that players are looked at as low life scum degenerates. I sometimes have a feeling of shame when telling people my true passion, due to the perception.

I for one have invested in a nice setup at home to watch all the races and play online at one of my three accounts which just about covers all interest, and at the same time it allows me the freedom to use my own restrooms and smoke my cigars or eat and drink for a reasonable price and as I want to without paying a entrance fee. I love this sport and still enjoy going to the track nearby at Evangeline and a couple of times a year riding into my birthtown of New Orleans to visit the Fairgrounds, which I did for Thanksgiving and I must admit has made tremendous upgrades to the facility, especially the new slot casino.

Of course my complaint about going to the track is the lack of quality customer service. It would be nice if for once you felt like your buisiness was so much apprieciated, but that is why I choose to play primarily from home. If there is something I miss or wish I could have more of in this passion of mine is other players to participate with. I have been self taught and with the exception of a casual family member wanting to play on a couple of days a year, it is usually a love that is done solo, and maybe that isn't such a bad thing.

I only hope is that this wonderful sport can grow and I wonder if new players can be attracted to this beautiful game with so many other oppertunities out there that offer better services ie. poker, casino gaming, and yes even the stock market. I saw something on tv the other day about college grads, ( in particular and example of Penn. University) were not interested in jobs in medicine and law, but more than 60% were entering the job market in none other than investment banking, and financial marketing. I thought that was quite interesting for what it's worth.

now, isn't that much easier to read.........? :bang:

jballscalls
12-26-2008, 12:11 PM
....start going to strip clubs instead, about the same financial outlay and the fillies are more reliable.

You ever been to cincinnati?? the closest one is like halfway between there and Louisville!! It's called RACERS. I mean my buddy told me its called racers.

miesque
12-26-2008, 12:15 PM
[QUOTE=Lasix67]I just wonder if customer service is the biggest problem we face in this game as players. I've always been of the belief that players are looked at as low life scum degenerates. [QUOTE]

I think Customer Service is a pervasive issue across the board, from the most die hard professional horseplayer to the very casual fan, from a patron with general admission buying a hot dog to a customer in the Turf Club ordering $100 bottles of Champagne, and frankly I think service is a direct reflection of the quality (or lack thereof) of track management. I think its an important issue that requires attention because good customer service is essential to attracting new people to the game at any level, and don't forget that they can get treated ten times better at any of decent casino in Vegas then they can at your average racetrack. How can the industry hope to attract potential new horseplayers or fans when even diehard enthusiasts can barely stomach the service at some tracks? Yes, it is feasible to become a horseplayer without ever having visited a track, but I personally think its much tougher to hook a new player without any sort of at the track experience and I think we can all agree it hard attracting new players to the game.

Now we all know that we can avoid poor service and bad overpriced food and alcohol by not attending the track and watching and wagering at home and frankly I can cook much better food at home then I can order at any racetrack in the United States, with the added bonus of having proper stemware. However, I happen to really enjoy being at the track and since I am not one of the lucky few who have a nice track like Arlington Park or Santa Anita just a few miles away (I am jealous of those who do live close to either of those tracks), it means that in addition to spending time capping the card(s) I have to drive from 2-7 hours each way to attend the races at tracks no where near as nice as those, which also requires spending at least one night in a hotel (with the exception of Colonial Downs). Because I love the game, the time, money and effort is absolutely worth it if the service is at least moderate (and I have learned to significantly lower my expectations when I visit the track), however its not worth it if the service is poor, even its one of those days/nights when it feels like the track is your personal ATM machine because you are en fuego with your wagers.

I apologize for the above rant but some days I think racing asks its supporters to "tolerate" way too much and customer service is just the tip of the iceberg.

cosmo96
12-26-2008, 12:34 PM
I know River Downs can't compare with the Kentucky or New York tracks. But it is home. I was raised in Cincinnati and went to River as a child. I live in Xenia, Ohio fifty miles away. During the season I go at least once a week. The facility is clean and well kept. It is family friendly. Children ride ponies. The food is good. I have to say that all of the people that work there are very friendly. It sure is a lot cheaper than the Reds or Bengals. I can't wait till opening day in April. Derby Day is very special. Next to having a good seat at Churchill, River Downs is the next best thing.

cosmo96
12-26-2008, 12:43 PM
There have been some valid points about Winter racing. I go to live racing at least once a week. Sure it is comfortable and cheaper at home, but I love the sights, sounds, and smells of the track. Other than cashing tickets I love to see and hear people yell, scream, and cuss. I'm looking forward to Turfway, Saturday.

JustRalph
12-26-2008, 03:41 PM
I know River Downs can't compare with the Kentucky or New York tracks. But it is home. I was raised in Cincinnati and went to River as a child. I live in Xenia, Ohio fifty miles away. During the season I go at least once a week. The facility is clean and well kept. It is family friendly. Children ride ponies. The food is good. I have to say that all of the people that work there are very friendly. It sure is a lot cheaper than the Reds or Bengals. I can't wait till opening day in April. Derby Day is very special. Next to having a good seat at Churchill, River Downs is the next best thing.

you gotta slip down to keeneland........ :ThmbUp:

Hajck Hillstrom
12-26-2008, 04:10 PM
Two months to the day since I last placed a wager. I thought it would be much harder than it has been.

Today, with the traditional opening of Santa Anita, I always celebrated my Christmas for the last 24 years with the Malibu Stakes. I will watch the race today sans financial concern.

My mantra in the game for years was "that it isn't a sport for the feint of heart." One can hang his hat on that you have to have thick skin and a sense of humor, but at some point, you need to express that you won't be taken advantage of forever.

Personally, I understand why people are getting fed up, but that being said, I respect the punters that press on. After all, they are following my advice....

cosmo96
12-26-2008, 04:34 PM
I go to Keenland and Churchill often.

JustRalph
12-26-2008, 04:40 PM
I go to Keenland and Churchill often.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

PaceAdvantage
12-27-2008, 04:02 AM
I think "no heat" should be an issue the customer makes the decision on, they should decide if it is too uncomfortable to stay.I know I'm late to this party, and this guy has probably left the building already (I'm only on page FOUR) but I'd like to respond to this little quote with my best McEnroe impersonation:

YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!

PaceAdvantage
12-27-2008, 04:03 AM
Don't sweat this Mickey Mouse BS Nmytwenties.These guys think they're being realists when they're really competing as candidates for the a$$hole of the month club.Dime a dozen.You're doing the right thing but not taking it from anybody and ending up as jaded and selfless as these folks.Man, you just seem to light up after midnight!

proximity
12-27-2008, 04:40 AM
friday's racing form said that the track is never open on tuesdays (wtf?) and was already scheduled to be closed on wednesday and thursday. accuse me of being overly cynical here if you wish, but it sounds to me like they decided to "mail it in" and basically just take the extra day off......

at any rate, the simulcast schedules of too many of these tracks just absolutely amaze me. if you want us to take your signal, then stay open and take ours!!

JustRalph
12-27-2008, 11:53 AM
friday's racing form said that the track is never open on tuesdays (wtf?) and was already scheduled to be closed on wednesday and thursday. accuse me of being overly cynical here if you wish, but it sounds to me like they decided to "mail it in" and basically just take the extra day off......

at any rate, the simulcast schedules of too many of these tracks just absolutely amaze me. if you want us to take your signal, then stay open and take ours!!

did you not read the post where a phone call to some "friends" there confirmed it was 10 deg in the place?

:bang: :bang:

proximity
12-28-2008, 03:59 AM
did you not read the post where a phone call to some "friends" there confirmed it was 10 deg in the place?

:bang: :bang:

don't remember that post ralph. of course the fact that it took a bottle and a half of jack daniels to get through the thread might have something to do with that. :)

David-LV
12-28-2008, 06:07 AM
If you want customer service with free food, free drinks, free racing forms, plenty of horse racing contests, comfortable surroundings and all the racing you can stand from 9:30 AM till 9:30 PM. from a multitude of casino racebooks.

MOVE TO LAS VEGAS. :jump: :jump: :jump:

_____
David

jimmy m
12-28-2008, 11:21 AM
David your spot on. Was in Las Vegas twice over the last few months.The South Point treated me very well all of the above was available.In Laughlin at the Edgewater last March was nice, but to get a drink you had to ask for a drink ticket and the wager had to be 5 bucks or more.We have a nice little raacebook here at Prairie Meadows racing forms are available pretty much all the time soft drinks and coffee are free i like it better now that it there is no smoking and plenty of machines.I like the simo programs not bad for a buck ok information pretty much everything except a few stats and no beyer numbers and we take most tracks out there Tbs Harness QH Dogs all available would like to see Australia.Nice pleasant and mostly Quiet way to spen the day.Jimmy

rrpic6
12-28-2008, 12:48 PM
I too was caught up in this Soap Opera thread. Not having contributed here in awhile, I enjoyed all the comments from the usual characters/suspects. The one thing that stands out above all who took sides, is that many of the posts took place on CHRISTMAS EVE! No live racing anywhere, but so many horseplayers look to a common ground to feel some sense of family? All the bickering of a real family included.

The advice most given to the OP was to get an ADW account. But how many threads abound by all the problems incurred by ADW's exist now? One bad beat occurred by a good friend on opening day at Hollywood recently. No contract had been settled as racing began, therefore ExpressBet took the first two races by phone. By the third race, the contract was declared void and all bets stopped for ExpressBet. My friend, while still working, calls in a superfecta bet (after already losing bets on races 1 and 2), only to find out no wagering is being accepted. He can't get to the OTB in time, and loses out on over $3000. So even ADW wagering has its wild stories of bad beats.

Its nice to catch up here on PA. Hope all had a great Holiday.

RR

PS JustRalph your avatar "Bob", I thought that guy was put in prison for false advertising. I thought he had an Ohio based company? Ads are on HRTV again for this product. Any updates or scoops on what happened?

Pace Cap'n
12-28-2008, 01:48 PM
PS JustRalph your avatar "Bob", I thought that guy was put in prison for false advertising. I thought he had an Ohio based company? Ads are on HRTV again for this product. Any updates or scoops on what happened?

It's a long story...

JustRalph
12-28-2008, 03:02 PM
He went to prison for mail fraud and credit card fraud because he gave away Enzyte for free with a credit card number. But then he would charge you automatically for a new package every month.......and apparently you couldn't cancel........kind of like a Time Life music series........ :lol:

He is in jail, I think I heard on the radio that his mother had taken over the company..........but she sold it.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Male-Enhancement-Company-May-Be-Sold/gq7krhVHo06pCMdHRUjb5w.cspx

A. Pineda
12-28-2008, 04:30 PM
If you want customer service with free food, free drinks, free racing forms, plenty of horse racing contests, comfortable surroundings and all the racing you can stand from 9:30 AM till 9:30 PM. from a multitude of casino racebooks.

MOVE TO LAS VEGAS. :jump: :jump: :jump:

_____
David

The Gold Coast excels in each of these categoeries. Since I'm not a night owl, I begin capping for the contests at 3:00 AM, and the bright lights there keep me from nodding off in the middle of the card.

Jimmy, the new drink policy at the Edgewater has driven away many players. Their clerks are often as grouchy as the bettors. Try the Aquarius next time.

OP, you love this game so much, but can't make a 45 minute drive? We used to make a 3 hour drive to DM, loving every minute of it. Sometimes the ride home wasn't too great, but that's life.

the little guy
12-28-2008, 07:23 PM
The one thing that stands out above all who took sides, is that many of the posts took place on CHRISTMAS EVE! No live racing anywhere, but so many horseplayers look to a common ground to feel some sense of family? All the bickering of a real family included.



Believe it or not, to some of us, Christmas ( and all the days that seem to go with it ) is just another day. Hard as it may be to believe, everyone in the world doesn't celebrate Christmas....or even care about it.

Pittsburgh Kid
12-28-2008, 08:35 PM
Believe it or not, to some of us, Christmas ( and all the days that seem to go with it ) is just another day. Hard as it may be to believe, everyone in the world doesn't celebrate Christmas....or even care about it.


Andy Williams said it best, it really is “the most wonderful time of the year“

JustRalph
12-28-2008, 10:18 PM
you mean there are other religions? Wow! Who woulda thunk it!!! :lol: :lol:

My wife's Restaurant is open Xmas Day and they get a decent crowd..........

raybo
12-29-2008, 07:12 AM
you mean there are other religions? Wow! Who woulda thunk it!!! :lol: :lol:

My wife's Restaurant is open Xmas Day and they get a decent crowd..........

Agreed. There are many people who believe in God, but not in Jesus Christ, or the New Testament. My fiance is one. We celebrate Christmas but it is not centered around Christ, but God and family, in that order. Do we think Jesus actually existed, probably. Do we think he was the son of God, nope. Are we Muslim, nope.

ezrabrooks
12-29-2008, 11:23 AM
The Gold Coast excels in each of these categoeries. Since I'm not a night owl, I begin capping for the contests at 3:00 AM, and the bright lights there keep me from nodding off in the middle of the card.

Jimmy, the new drink policy at the Edgewater has driven away many players. Their clerks are often as grouchy as the bettors. Try the Aquarius next time.

OP, you love this game so much, but can't make a 45 minute drive? We used to make a 3 hour drive to DM, loving every minute of it. Sometimes the ride home wasn't too great, but that's life.

I made my first visit to Laughlin back in October. Played at the Riverside, and found it very 'Player Friendly'. 2.5% comps on sports book wagers, competent ticket writers (don't know what happened to the term Teller out there) and never had any problems with drinks. Only problem with Laughlin...is getting there.

Ez

rrpic6
12-29-2008, 06:28 PM
Believe it or not, to some of us, Christmas ( and all the days that seem to go with it ) is just another day. Hard as it may be to believe, everyone in the world doesn't celebrate Christmas....or even care about it.

Maybe you'd like to be called "Sol Invictus"? You missed my point. A gathering occurred on Christmas Eve here. It was similar to gatherings taking place worldwide. It does not matter what one believes, yet most will celebrate a Holiday this time of year, be it Christian, Jewish, and more recently, those of African Heritage have added a Holiday.

RR

the little guy
12-29-2008, 07:31 PM
Maybe you'd like to be called "Sol Invictus"? You missed my point. A gathering occurred on Christmas Eve here. It was similar to gatherings taking place worldwide. It does not matter what one believes, yet most will celebrate a Holiday this time of year, be it Christian, Jewish, and more recently, those of African Heritage have added a Holiday.

RR


Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like something uttered at a Klan rally.

Added?

Grits
12-29-2008, 08:24 PM
Coming from anyone else, I'd find this hard to believe. But your honesty is pretty much your hallmark. Even if brutal on occasion. I don't usually doubt you on horse selections, nor do I on this.

My immediate thought is you are working way, way, too much.

One day, when you marry and father triplets, you will care about it. Matter of fact, you and the bride will be like all parents, having drinks, up 'til 4 a.m. putting training wheels on bicycles and trying to outgame each other with Wii's, MarioKart or Monster Trucks 4X4 World Circuit.

. . . . oh, and they have horse games too. You may prefer those.


Believe it or not, to some of us, Christmas ( and all the days that seem to go with it ) is just another day. Hard as it may be to believe, everyone in the world doesn't celebrate Christmas....or even care about it.

rrpic6
12-29-2008, 09:13 PM
Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like something uttered at a Klan rally.

Added?

How about "created"? But "added" seems relative, as Kwanzaa has its roots in the 60's.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa

RR

mountainman
12-29-2008, 09:23 PM
Andy Williams said it best, it really is “the most wonderful time of the year“

Couldn't agree more. To me, xmas is pure magic. The food, the giving, the recieving, the lights, the tree, the hustle, the bustle, the songs. Can't get enough and can't wait for next year.

mountainman
12-29-2008, 09:25 PM
Agreed. There are many people who believe in God, but not in Jesus Christ, or the New Testament. My fiance is one. We celebrate Christmas but it is not centered around Christ, but God and family, in that order. Do we think Jesus actually existed, probably. Do we think he was the son of God, nope. Are we Muslim, nope.

Like this post.

Sherry
12-29-2008, 10:22 PM
Couldn't agree more. To me, xmas is pure magic. The food, the giving, the recieving, the lights, the tree, the hustle, the bustle, the songs. Can't get enough and can't wait for next year.

Bah, humbug! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

mountainman
12-29-2008, 10:35 PM
Bah, humbug! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Saw your pic on profile. You sure don't LOOK like the grinch.

JustRalph
12-29-2008, 10:59 PM
Not added a holiday.......it was made it up completely. By a 60's radical. Google can fill you in.