Oil drops below 33 a barrell

[dutchboy]

Drudge has a story that Russia will need help from the World Bank if the price continues to slide. Seems amazing how things are changing so quickly.

[Marshall Bennett]

When Obama takes office he'll bail them out . :D ... that is if Bush doesn't beat him to it .

[boxcar]

When Obama takes office he'll bail them out . :D ... that is if Bush doesn't beat him to it .

Fer sure. After all, Russia IS far too big to fail!

Boxcar

[Tom]

Funny, gas went up 2 cents here today.......seems suspicious to me.

[cmoore]

Fer sure. After all, Russia IS far too big to fail!

Boxcar

..Lets borrow from China and Japan and then loan it to Russia. Sounds about as logical as everything else our government has done..:lol:

[ArlJim78]

I love how last week OPEC decided to get tough and reduced production by 2 million brl/day, and said the price must go up.

a week later the price is still going down. so now they've got reduced prices AND production? those guys are kinda screwed right now, along with Russia, Venezuela, etc. Maybe Henry Paulson should sign up to work for Putin now.

six months ago the experts were saying oil would never go under $100 again.:lol:

[Zaf]

Correct me if I am wrong, 10 years ago wasn't oil $11 a barrel :confused: :bang:

Z

[Dave Schwartz]

..Lets borrow from China and Japan and then loan it to Russia. Sounds about as logical as everything else our government has done..

I am sure you meant give to Russia.

[Secretariat]

Kind of makes you wonder how fast demand fell to go from $4.00+ gas to $1.60 gallon gas in such a short time. Even with OPEC cutting production. Did China stop driving? Did everybody en masse shift to fuel efficient cars?
Does anyone have any figures on the exact drop in demand over the last four months to cause something as large as this? Or is it possible that the price was inflated as Exxon kept recording record profits.

[Zaf]

They bilked the world for trillions of dollars. This would not of been possible if energy alternatives such as Ethanol, Methanol, & Electricity were more widely available.

Z

[raybo]

Correct me if I am wrong, 10 years ago wasn't oil $11 a barrel :confused: :bang:

Z

I know when all the West Texas oilfields were shut down, the oilmen were saying it cost them at least $20 per barrel just to pump it out of the ground.

[raybo]

Kind of makes you wonder how fast demand fell to go from $4.00+ gas to $1.60 gallon gas in such a short time. Even with OPEC cutting production. Did China stop driving? Did everybody en masse shift to fuel efficient cars?
Does anyone have any figures on the exact drop in demand over the last four months to cause something as large as this? Or is it possible that the price was inflated as Exxon kept recording record profits.

Around where I live, the price of gas was so high that about 80% of the locals here could no longer afford to buy gas to commute to Dallas. They simply stopped buying gas. After the prices started going down, these same people were still broke from the summer so they still couldn't buy gas, at ANY price. I have a feeling this is the case in much of rural America. Last summer put a lot of people on the unemployment roles, food stamps, etc..

Another possibility is that maybe the American people finally recognized that they do, indeed, have power as consumers, and by curtailing unnecessary driving and shopping gas prices and buying less than a tankfull at a time (happened here, for sure), they drove the prices down and they continue to fall even though the supply is decreasing.

[raybo]

They bilked the world for trillions of dollars. This would not of been possible if energy alternatives such as Ethanol, Methanol, & Electricity were more widely available.

Z

To say nothing of natural gas.

[JustRalph]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/business/worldbusiness/12oil.html


down as much as 290,000 barrels a day by mid 2009.

This is also due to the economy demanding less.

If you look around, you can find predictions for this happening for the last year.............

Hell, if Donnie Trump can predict it, it wasn't much of a forecast.

[boxcar]

They bilked the world for trillions of dollars. This would not of been possible if energy alternatives such as Ethanol, Methanol, & Electricity were more widely available.

Z

Nor would it have happened if we we became far more reliant on all the oil sitting in our own backyard.

Boxcar

[Valuist]

Interesting in that the futures are solidly higher on crude oil.....the traders are not expecting it to fall much further. If people are really driving less now, it doesn't say much for their intelligence. The time to drive less was in May and June, when prices were over $4/gallon.

As for somebody mentioning ethanol, that is a terribly wasteful fuel source. Natural gas would be a much smarter way to go for an alternative.

[raybo]

Interesting in that the futures are solidly higher on crude oil.....the traders are not expecting it to fall much further. If people are really driving less now, it doesn't say much for their intelligence. The time to drive less was in May and June, when prices were over $4/gallon.

As for somebody mentioning ethanol, that is a terribly wasteful fuel source. Natural gas would be a much smarter way to go for an alternative.

In May and June, many people had not become "broke" yet. They had to drive to work and they already had trips for the summer planned. After that time, they were "financially exhausted" and could no longer afford basic transportation costs, we're talking about the majority of people (those that are working for a living and struggling to make it from paycheck to paycheck).

Even with the decrease in those transportation costs many of those same people were just trying to survive with the basic essentials, ie: food, housing, medical bills, and their children's needs. Driving was no longer a "basic essential". Many of them couldn't even afford their own cars anymore, so no need to buy gas.

[Lefty]

Boxcar, plus all our natural gas reserves and coal reserves. We shouldn't have to be dependent on any foreign power.

[dutchboy]

Kind of makes you wonder how fast demand fell to go from $4.00+ gas to $1.60 gallon gas in such a short time. Even with OPEC cutting production. Did China stop driving? Did everybody en masse shift to fuel efficient cars?
Does anyone have any figures on the exact drop in demand over the last four months to cause something as large as this? Or is it possible that the price was inflated as Exxon kept recording record profits.

There was a program on tv a few weeks ago where a race from China to Paris in the early 1900's was recreated. One of the scenes were the riders wearing gas masks on the highway out of Bejing. There were 25,000 trucks parked or idling on the road for 75 miles waiting to get in to Bejing to unload or load. I don't know when the program was produced but now I read there is very little wait on the same highway.

[Tom]

That was the tipping point for me to realize Obama is an idiot.
We can't drill our way out of it ( yes, fool, in fact, it is the ONLY way we can get out of it) but the feeble mind thinks we can spend our way out of bankruptcy!

Are we on Bizzaro Planet? I've never seen such stupidity as BOTH parties have shown the last two months. Pure stupidity. I never knew bipartisan meant stupid.

The few real Americans left better rise up take back the country pretty soon - a revolution os our only hope. The system will NEVER correct itself. It is a cancer and needs to be removed. Whatever it takes.....

[boxcar]

Boxcar, plus all our natural gas reserves and coal reserves. We shouldn't have to be dependent on any foreign power.

Exactly! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

That was the tipping point for me to realize Obama is an idiot.
We can't drill our way out of it ( yes, fool, in fact, it is the ONLY way we can get out of it) but the feeble mind thinks we can spend our way out of bankruptcy!

Not only spend out way out of bankruptcy -- but the utterly incomprehensible stupidity runs even deeper than this: The liberals believe we can also tax our way into prosperity.

[quote] Are we on Bizzaro Planet? I've never seen such stupidity as BOTH parties have shown the last two months. Pure stupidity. I never knew bipartisan meant stupid.

This is what happens when you lay down with dogs: You can only expect to catch their fleas! This is why Rush has always rightly maintained that political answers do not lie in compromise, but in the attitude of defeating your political enemies. (Even the bible teaches that a little bit of leaven leavens the WHOLE lump!)

The few real Americans left better rise up take back the country pretty soon - a revolution os our only hope. The system will NEVER correct itself. It is a cancer and needs to be removed. Whatever it takes.....

Stay tuned. The final chapter hasn't been written yet.

Boxcar

[ddog]

What happens when demand/price falls?

You want Uncle Sam to do the new exploartion/drilling?
Oil companies won't and stay in business anyway.


Count on it.

What happens if you have oil floating around or stored that cost you almost as much to get out as you can now sell it for?

Think you might hold back for a better price??
Duh!!!!!!!!!


For guys that scream about the "free market" some of these posters sure as hell don't seem to have a clue at all.

[slewis]

Kind of makes you wonder how fast demand fell to go from $4.00+ gas to $1.60 gallon gas in such a short time. Even with OPEC cutting production. Did China stop driving? Did everybody en masse shift to fuel efficient cars?
Does anyone have any figures on the exact drop in demand over the last four months to cause something as large as this? Or is it possible that the price was inflated as Exxon kept recording record profits.

Sec,

You need to look up my posts on another thread where I stated that it was my opinion that this oil-friendly administration, manipulated gasoline prices in this country where they more than DOUBLED in a short run.
The dumb American public bought into the BS that it was China and India's tremendous growth (this all in less then a 1 yr period) that caused this "natural market condition".
Problem is in Europe and the rest of the world is that they rose more in line with oil price rises and suffered only approx. a 25% increase.
Many right wingers were all over me at first, but after I posted the European data, there were a lot of tails rubbing the inside of legs.
What really sucks is I hadn't heard one media service (CNN and MSNBC especially since they swing left) report this conflict!
The American people were had.... again.

[Lefty]

Don't worry gang, the dim congress plans on raising gas taxes. Remember, Obama said during the campaign that 'he didn't mind $4 gas.

[boxcar]

Don't worry gang, the dim congress plans on raising gas taxes. Remember, Obama said during the campaign that 'he didn't mind $4 gas.

And that I would categorize as price manipulation! But I bet not many libs would.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Pelosi has invested in wind farms, so she needs high gas prices.
Talk about corrupt - this bitch has zero integrity.

[delayjf]

The dumb American public bought into the BS that it was China and India's tremendous growth (this all in less then a 1 yr period) that caused this "natural market condition".
Problem is in Europe and the rest of the world is that they rose more in line with oil price rises and suffered only approx. a 25% increase.
Many right wingers were all over me at first, but after I posted the European data, there were a lot of tails rubbing the inside of legs.
Hardly, it was also pointed out to you that the portion of the price of gas (the cost of the gas itself) which could be affected by an increase in oil was much smaller in Europe than the comparable portion in the US. For example:

If the price of gas in Europe is 8.00 a gallon and taxes account for 6 dollars of that price, then only 2 dollar (the price of the oil) or 25% of the total cost of a gallon of gas will be affected by an increase in the price of oil. Thus doubling the price of gas from 2.00 to 4.00 dollars would increase the total cost of gas to 10.00 a gallon or an increase of 25%

If on the other side, if the price of gas in the US is 2.50 a gallon with only 50 cents a gallon in taxes than 80% of the price of gas will be subject to the increase in the price of Oil. So again if gas doubles to 4.00 gallon making the total price 4.50 and increase of 80%
I hope this helps.

[Valuist]

Oil has continued down but is at about $35.50/barrel.....I believe the title of the thread meant $43/barrel when it was posted because oil hasn't been below $33/barrel in 2008. It may get there but hasn't been there yet.

[ezrabrooks]

Kind of makes you wonder how fast demand fell to go from $4.00+ gas to $1.60 gallon gas in such a short time. Even with OPEC cutting production. Did China stop driving? Did everybody en masse shift to fuel efficient cars?
Does anyone have any figures on the exact drop in demand over the last four months to cause something as large as this? Or is it possible that the price was inflated as Exxon kept recording record profits.

It isn't that hard to figure out...the increase in price was not that wasn't enough oil to satisfy demand right then (although the world supply and demand were close to being even), but because the market expected that more supply was going to be needed in the future to make up for new demand coming online from the developing world. These new oil supplies couldn't be economically produced without higher prices. Demand dipped, with the world wide economic slow down... and the price plummeted. Was there speculation involved in the run up? You bet, but no Exxon (Big Oil) conspiracy.

Ez

[wonatthewire1]

Boxcar, plus all our natural gas reserves and coal reserves. We shouldn't have to be dependent on any foreign power.


But with the Bush New World Order - aren't we all in this together, so is there really a "foreign power"?

Wasn't globalization supposed to eliminate all this stupid country stuff?

:faint:

[raybo]

But with the Bush New World Order - aren't we all in this together, so is there really a "foreign power"?

Wasn't globalization supposed to eliminate all this stupid country stuff?

:faint:

I suspect that the only change in the "New" World Order, versus the "Previous" World Order, was the inclusion of George's son. :lol:

[JustRalph]

There is a new world order. As Islam creeps west and takes over Britain, France and Spain..........things are changing. Some day our children will be fighting this creeping theology.

[wonatthewire1]

There is a new world order. As Islam creeps west and takes over Britain, France and Spain..........things are changing. Some day our children will be fighting this creeping theology.


Have you ever seen the percentages of the population of "islam" in these countries? When was the last time you were in the UK, France or Spain to make such a statement?

Is the US of A under a similar siege from south of the imaginary border we have with Mexico, the gateway from South America? Spanish will be the majority tongue spoken here by 2040...

[dutchboy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

Have you ever seen the percentages of the population of "islam" in these countries? When was the last time you were in the UK, France or Spain to make such a statement?

Is the US of A under a similar siege from south of the imaginary border we have with Mexico, the gateway from South America? Spanish will be the majority tongue spoken here by 2040...

[dylbert]

Kind of makes you wonder how fast demand fell to go from $4.00+ gas to $1.60 gallon gas in such a short time. Even with OPEC cutting production. Did China stop driving? Did everybody en masse shift to fuel efficient cars?
Does anyone have any figures on the exact drop in demand over the last four months to cause something as large as this? Or is it possible that the price was inflated as Exxon kept recording record profits.Very simple answer -- market forces! If Exxon is that smart, do you think they would let it drop? The best cure versus cartel such as OPEC is "shift in demand" not mere "change in demand".

Any sophomore level economic student can explain this to you Sec. So, stop by your local community college and buy a kid some coffee and get an economics lesson.

[wonatthewire1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country


thanks Dutch, it was a rhetorical question

so I guess 3% is getting overrun by 'islam'?

The US of A has 34% hispanic and expected to be the majority by 2042 (i was off by 2 years)!

hmmm...guess we should keep workin' our own issues - and besides, wouldn't have to actually "go to the places that we are criticizing" just have to read something that had no reference points (?)

[Mineshaft]

Correct me if I am wrong, 10 years ago wasn't oil $11 a barrel :confused: :bang:

Z




You are correct back in 97 it went to $10-12 a barrel. I had just gotten into the oilfield when that happened

[gopony]

Kind of makes you wonder how fast demand fell to go from $4.00+ gas to $1.60 gallon gas in such a short time. Even with OPEC cutting production. Did China stop driving? Did everybody en masse shift to fuel efficient cars?
Does anyone have any figures on the exact drop in demand over the last four months to cause something as large as this? Or is it possible that the price was inflated as Exxon kept recording record profits.

I talked with an relative that works in an oil company. He's fairly high up. He said that aren't sure what happened. Part of the reason may be due to increased competitive pressure. Not that it is real, but there was some serious talk about doing something about it.
The recent decrease of 3-4% in consumption doesn't quite explain it. But he did say that refineries don't usually have a big supply on hand or large storage facilities. Which could explain some of it.
But the biggest kicker was the decrease in Natural Gas prices which were also facing increased talk of increased/subsidized competition.

So my guess is that just the threat of competition tamed some of the gas and oil prices. We should know something in a couple of months. Because refineries should be able to adjust production and the price will start going back up, as will the oil feedstock.

[Valuist]

This thread must've been the jinx since we never did hit $33/barrel. It got down to around $36....now its rallying. Just saw it at $45.75/barrel.

[Tom]

Just in case you thought we were finally getting a fair shake on gas prices, our beloved government is talking about raising the federal tax by at least a dime a gallon. So I guess that means Washington is on the same level as OPEC - miserable, money grubbing bastards. When do the issue our camels?

[prospector]

Just in case you thought we were finally getting a fair shake on gas prices, our beloved government is talking about raising the federal tax by at least a dime a gallon. So I guess that means Washington is on the same level as OPEC - miserable, money grubbing bastards. When do the issue our camels?
oregon is getting ready to tax the miles you drive...

all this to fix the highways...why not use the labor we already pay for? convicts...seems cheaper than unions...as far as i'm concerned they gave up their rights when they broke the law...take away tv...ham sandwich, sledge hammer, shovels and plenty of exercise..

[Robert Fischer]

it really shouldn't have gone below 37 that day, with opec already have publicly announced the production cut...

[Marshall Bennett]

The local station I frequent has already raised their gas a dime a gallon , but others nearby haven't . Beleive this is mainly due to the fact the owners are assholes and can't wait for the next supply truck to raise prices . :mad:

[lamboguy]

a "dead cat bounce" to the price of oil brings it up to $63 a barrel.

the real surprise in the markets for the last week is the 4 point move in the long bond raising interest rates. should be done for now