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View Full Version : Report: Fort Erie Won't Race Next Year


Cangamble
12-15-2008, 03:03 PM
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2008/12/report-no-fort-erie-racing-in-2009-190.html

I'll be live blogging as I find out more.

Mineshaft
12-15-2008, 06:35 PM
where will they go?

Cangamble
12-15-2008, 06:45 PM
Ontario needs a B thoroughbred track. Ajax Downs is a quarter horse track but they just upgraded to 5/8th's of a mile. That is big enough to run thoroughbreds now.
Woodbine can also run cheaper races and more races. But I just don't see that. There are some horses who can't poly. It would kill breeding and owning horses in Ontario without an out (B track).

CryingForTheHorses
12-15-2008, 07:07 PM
Its a very sad day in Ft Erie Im sure,Ft Erie used to be the greatest,Remember the spring meet?..We would come back from Florida to get there opening day,Cold as heck but a fun track..I feel bad for the people with the small farms around the niagara area.What are these people going to do??..Not to mention all the horseman and owners and trainers.what a waste!!

garyoz
12-15-2008, 07:51 PM
A beautiful track with a really nice turf course. Slots were the beginning of the end. Once they were installed, the ambiance was gone. Doesn't help that Buffalo is an economic joke in a state of population decline. It also got to be a hassle crossing the border after 9/11.

Surprised the government won't step in to protect the jobs and breeding industry. The Canadians have much more practice at bailouts than the US.

proximity
12-15-2008, 08:10 PM
where will they go?

presque isle downs maybe??

Tom
12-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Finger Lakes - 90 miles down the thruway.
Good purses. We'd love to have you.

trying2win
12-16-2008, 01:46 AM
To Fort Erie Management:

Start thinking outside the box! Yes, first...close down the #%$&@ slot machines at Fort Erie. Then get in a huddle with the Ontario Provincial Government to first cut their provincial tax take off wagers, and then cut the Fort Erie track takeouts down to 10 % for straight bets and 15 % for all gimmicks. Become the WAL-MART of racetracks in North America with the lowest track takeouts and watch your business grow tremendously.

Then in my opinion, after awhile the parimutuel handle would more than enough to make a bigger net profit for this track after expenses. I think bettors would see the great possibilities of making a profit at your track, and bet larger amounts there than in the past. I'm guessing that the bigger prices returned to bettors because of lower takeouts, would attract newer bettors too. Oh wait a second!....my ideas make too much sense :D.

T2W
-------------------------------------------------------------------
~"Persons of mediocre accomplishments are quick to explain why they haven't, why they don't, why they can't, and why they aren't"

--David J. Schwartz Ph. D (not the Dave Schwartz of HSH fame)

trying2win
12-16-2008, 06:16 AM
To Fort Erie Management:

You don't have a money problem, you have an idea problem.


T2W

-----------------------------------------------------
~"Never think IF you can solve a problem, think HOW you can solve it!"

--Norman Vincent Peale

Cangamble
12-16-2008, 08:11 AM
To Fort Erie Management:

Start thinking outside the box! Yes, first...close down the #%$&@ slot machines at Fort Erie. Then get in a huddle with the Ontario Provincial Government to first cut their provincial tax take off wagers, and then cut the Fort Erie track takeouts down to 10 % for straight bets and 15 % for all gimmicks. Become the WAL-MART of racetracks in North America with the lowest track takeouts and watch your business grow tremendously.

Then in my opinion, after awhile the parimutuel handle would more than enough to make a bigger net profit for this track after expenses. I think bettors would see the great possibilities of making a profit at your track, and bet larger amounts there than in the past. I'm guessing that the bigger prices returned to bettors because of lower takeouts, would attract newer bettors too. Oh wait a second!....my ideas make too much sense :D.

T2W
-------------------------------------------------------------------
~"Persons of mediocre accomplishments are quick to explain why they haven't, why they don't, why they can't, and why they aren't"

--David J. Schwartz Ph. D (not the Dave Schwartz of HSH fame)

The government only gets 1 or 2% on bets in Ontario. The government cut the tax quite a while ago. Yet Fort Erie has very high takeouts. 28% on tris and 25% on exactors.

Slots gives them a 4 million dollar profit, and the horsemen also get 4 million a year from slots, so cutting slots makes little sense. The horsemen also get around 4.5 million from betting for the year. At the peak, slots generated 17 million in one year for the horsemen's account.

The problem with one track doing a Wal Mart thing is that other tracks and ADWs will avoid them like a plague, and Fort Erie's home market only has 400,000 people, a fraction of which are horse players.

Gallop58
12-16-2008, 12:47 PM
Old Frankie boy should open up his Adena north training track and pull a Keeneland north by developing the Magna acres into another track for Ontario. Would be fun to see the competition and fur fly.
When Magna bought into Flamboro way back when, I recall mention (rumor) about TBs being added there, though that was at a time of tension between the OJC and Herr Stronach in his heady optimistic days, so it wasn't likely more than a publicity jab.
In reality the horse population will go to PID, finger lakes, Beulah and down from there. I'd like to see a track with not backstretch and only shipping in like the SBs do it.
I'm a contraction guy, so this hasn't got me all worked up, but it's still sad to see they couldn't make it work even with the subsidies. Let's mothball it for a few years, sell it to someone who'll innovate and we can all meet at the grand reopening.

KH

CryingForTheHorses
12-16-2008, 02:59 PM
This makes me wonder what is in store for Woodbine,A MSW purse is almost 80k. Do the people really need purses like this,Its nice to win but I feel if something was put back into the business for a rainy day there would be more money to operate. Ft Erie did the same thing,These guys went ga-ga over their purses and never put anything back into it.You have to blame all involved including the horseman,owners and track management. They thought their golden cup would pour forever.I really feel for the thousands of people who may now lose their livelyhood,their homes and businesses.Lower the takeout,moderate the purses and give back a little more to the bettors and you will have a full grandstand.I raced in Ft Erie for years,The purses were low,The grandstand was full and you were happy to win the purse that you did. Greed is what killed Ft Erie.

Cangamble
12-16-2008, 03:44 PM
This makes me wonder what is in store for Woodbine,A MSW purse is almost 80k. Do the people really need purses like this,Its nice to win but I feel if something was put back into the business for a rainy day there would be more money to operate. Ft Erie did the same thing,These guys went ga-ga over their purses and never put anything back into it.You have to blame all involved including the horseman,owners and track management. They thought their golden cup would pour forever.I really feel for the thousands of people who may now lose their livelyhood,their homes and businesses.Lower the takeout,moderate the purses and give back a little more to the bettors and you will have a full grandstand.I raced in Ft Erie for years,The purses were low,The grandstand was full and you were happy to win the purse that you did. Greed is what killed Ft Erie.

Purse account money wouldn't be used to save Fort Erie today regardless. In fact, purse money, though low today, isn't the problem at all. The horsemen get 10% of the slot profits and the owners of the track get 10% of the slot profits as well. They also split up the money from betting.

If Fort Erie stayed open, they would have 8-9 million for purses next year.

The problem is that the track owner (Nordic) claims they are losing money.

How? I haven't got a clue. Non slot tracks seem to get by even if barely. And Nordic gets a 4 million cushion from the slots on top of revenues from the track.

Yes, I agree 80k for a maiden special is ridiculous. Woodbine should distribute their purse money more evenly so the owners with bottom horses that run for 10-12,5000 have a shot to make money as well. But that really has nothing to do with Fort Erie.

You aren't going to get an argument from me when you mention track takeout needs to be reduced:)

And Nordic's problem stems from greed. They had a chance to sell to Magna Entertainment when Magna was blowing dollars out the window, but Nordic wanted slightly more than Magna offered (and I heard the offer was lots considering that Nordic may not be able to give the track away today, if it is true that they are losing so much).

But getting people in the stands again isn't an easy trick. Lots of people are content with playing at home, and of course, many have left to either play slots, online poker, sports betting, etc.

Nmytwenties
12-16-2008, 05:39 PM
Sad to see a track with so much history go the way of history. My second biggest TRI I have hit to date was at that track, though it was one that made little sense on many other occasions. The Prince of Wales stakes will go to Woodbine now I guess????

From what I understand it is an absolutly beautiful track with an infield that is picturesque in the summer. I was looking foward to those 2F races that they carded, betting those early in the meet can be very easy and profitable.

I am determined to stay off politics on this board as I have views that are kinda outside the polite mode of discussion that most prefer. Lets just say I am not a Republican or a Democrat so I am not Bush bashing here, the upcoming administration will serve the same masters.

Fort Erie was a victim of this stupid war on terror smoke and mirrors scam that has gripped the world for the past 7 years. I have heard many close to the track say that the difficulty crossing the border because of the checks had much to do with their suffering business, not to say there were not other factors. All those affected might want to take up their grievences with all of the American politicians, Democrat and Republican alike, who have been the prostitutes of AIPAC and who have fashioned a foriegn policy that has made enemies in the Middle East for America because they treat a foriegn country there like its the 51st state. That will be all I have to say about that, I would like to keep it to horse racing only on this board...lol

Anyway I guess those like myself who hate to see Fort Erie close can hope that it might be opened in the future if things change with the economy. Maybe 2010 or 2011.

Cangamble
12-16-2008, 06:09 PM
Border crossing was a problem, but the biggest downfall to Fort Erie came from slots competition in Niagara Falls, and now NY State.
The stronger Canadian dollar also played a major part to slots decline. Now the CDN dollar is down again, but not nearly as much as it was 4 or 5 years ago.

Nmytwenties
12-16-2008, 07:07 PM
A B Track with the same horses running at Fort Erie being switched to a 5/8 mile track, would make an already difficult job of nailing down correct selctions even tougher. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, a good number of races run at FE are marred with results that make no sense. Many variables with the switch from poly and Woodbine competition being only one of them. I don't have that track on the short list of one's I detest (basically just MNR and PHA) because it is easy to spot the races that are trouble and stay away from them. That's all fine and dandy but adding a gimmick track circumference makes wagers there down to probably two or three solid bets on average for me, guess we'll see.

maxwell
12-16-2008, 10:16 PM
When The Fort was cut loose by Woodbine I thought it was game over for sure. Nordic kept the show going for 10 years or so ( ? ) but it was a hard sell based on the quality of the product and location. The slots kept the track rolling but that tire soon went flat. And now it appears that Hollywood is next in line.

It's probably a natural progression that will result in one major ( or mid-level ) track dominating a region. The law of the jungle, if you will : Kill or be killed, baby! :eek:

Cangamble
12-17-2008, 08:46 AM
When The Fort was cut loose by Woodbine I thought it was game over for sure. Nordic kept the show going for 10 years or so ( ? ) but it was a hard sell based on the quality of the product and location. The slots kept the track rolling but that tire soon went flat. And now it appears that Hollywood is next in line.

It's probably a natural progression that will result in one major ( or mid-level ) track dominating a region. The law of the jungle, if you will : Kill or be killed, baby! :eek:
Nordic did next to nothing to promote horse racing to the area, they just took the slot money and viewed racing as a necessary evil.
I disagree about quality and location. Ontario needs a B track and Fort Erie has a good location as far as being next to Buffalo who have a choice of going over the border in 5-20 minutes or drive 90 minutes to Finger Lakes in order to watch live racing.

maxwell
12-17-2008, 06:12 PM
Cangamble,

First of all, it doesn't matter what Nordic did or didn't do, if they hadn't stepped in racing at the Fort was over. Secondly, it's not a "B" track, it's a "C" track. Third, Buffalo has their own problems keeping the Bills and Sabres in town.

A - major ( Belmont,CD, etc.)

B - mid-level ( WO, AP, etc. )

C - minor ( I don't want to even think about it. :D )

Nmytwenties
12-17-2008, 06:19 PM
My sympathy is with ya there cangamble, it must be very discouraging to have your home track close regardless of what level the horses are at. It doesn't sound like the prospect of closing is being used as a negotiating ploy either which doesn't leave much chance of opening next year. A real shame I thought it was a really unique track, lots of route races which is rare for lower to mid level tracks and I really took a liking to some of the jockeys there. Pimpetel, Beckon and Cory Clark my top three. I don't think there is a track that has more girl jockeys riding there either, I am probably wrong but it seemed like it was 50/50 there between the sexes.

Cangamble
12-17-2008, 06:49 PM
Cangamble,

First of all, it doesn't matter what Nordic did or didn't do, if they hadn't stepped in racing at the Fort was over. Secondly, it's not a "B" track, it's a "C" track. Third, Buffalo has their own problems keeping the Bills and Sabres in town.

A - major ( Belmont,CD, etc.)

B - mid-level ( WO, AP, etc. )

C - minor ( I don't want to even think about it. :D )
I believe that when Nordic got the track, the Fort Erie horsemen tried to buy the joint but were turned down at the time by Woodbine. Someone would have bought it.

OK, you can argue it is a C track and the Woodbine is a B track, makes no difference. But Woodbine owners need an out in Ontario for their horses that can't cut it at Woodbine.
Fort Erie is equal to Finger Lakes and very close to Turfway as far as caliber is concerned.

Cangamble
12-17-2008, 06:52 PM
My sympathy is with ya there cangamble, it must be very discouraging to have your home track close regardless of what level the horses are at. It doesn't sound like the prospect of closing is being used as a negotiating ploy either which doesn't leave much chance of opening next year. A real shame I thought it was a really unique track, lots of route races which is rare for lower to mid level tracks and I really took a liking to some of the jockeys there. Pimpetel, Beckon and Cory Clark my top three. I don't think there is a track that has more girl jockeys riding there either, I am probably wrong but it seemed like it was 50/50 there between the sexes.

The more I know about this the more the owners are using it as a ploy, but they had no choice according to Ontario laws but to give layoff notices Monday, because there is a fair chance they won't open in March.

Letting the place just stand there does Nordic absolutely no good at all. Meanwhile, they are trying to get 3 million a year extra from the gov't. It is extortion if you asked me. I can't see how they can lose money while Beulah and River Downs seems to get by without slot money.

Indulto
12-17-2008, 10:21 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=moran_paul&id=3774310
'The Fort' will be missed
By Paul Moran December 16, 2008There are moments, fleeting and at the same time monumental, that without bluster, thunder or lightning can change a life. There is no instant of catharsis, no rapture but something not yet defined becomes clearly inevitable.

I had one of those moments one sunny day, though the exact date and even the year is now lost to memory. The '60s will suffice. The last innocent generation came of age in that decade and one summer day, I walked into a thoroughbred racetrack for the first time.

The memory of that day remains vivid. …
… This was very different, uncharted territory for a know-it-all college kid -- a vast expanse of grass, an infield landscaped and throbbing with floral color, a walking ring with these massive, muscled animals at arm's length. The scent of popcorn, hot dogs, cigar smoke and manure seemed to blend as if joined in nature.

Somehow, I knew at that moment that this was the place for me and though there have been many other racetracks since then, I have not left.

The track at Fort Erie is in Canada, just across the Niagara River from Buffalo, N.Y., my hometown ...

PaceAdvantage
12-17-2008, 10:26 PM
This is a shame. Fort Erie was always a favorite of mine...

TimesTheyRAChangin
12-18-2008, 03:01 PM
First track I ever went to.
Infield lakes.
Flamingoes.
Betting windows for Canadians.
Win.Place.Show.Exactor.I think Ouinella.Daily Double.And $6.00 Combines.
Identical windows for American $$$.
Seperate,enclosed areas for the bigtime $50.00 bettors!
Cardboard-like mutual tickets.
Then the same setup on the opposite sides for cashing.
Remember the automated mechanical pencil writing the payoffs as the paper scrolled by?
Made my first ever bet,$2.00 to show on a 99-1 shot,and cashed,and immediately knew I would never have to work another day for the rest of my life!

maxwell
12-18-2008, 06:36 PM
It is a crying shame. It was a fun track to go to. It sort of reminded me of Greenwood in the fun department, but it was much prettier.

When I was a kid I stayed there for a couple of weeks walking hots for my uncle who had a small stable. The stables and tack rooms were 'economy class' all the way. We slept in the tack rooms, and they were bloody freezing during the night. I couldn't wait to go home!

Crystal Beach ... and now The Fort!

offtrack
12-18-2008, 06:58 PM
The Moran article (click on the link for the full text) is so close to my memories of the Fort that it's a bit un-nerving.

Well said, and well written. Thanks Paul....

TimesTheyRAChangin
12-18-2008, 08:32 PM
Also forgot that it was there I first saw Avelino Gomez do his famous dismount after a win.

Premier Turf Club
12-18-2008, 09:28 PM
This is a shame. Fort Erie was always a favorite of mine...

Mine too. I made a lot of money on their grass racing. I've played it pretty regularly over the past few years. Sorry to see it close.

Cangamble
12-18-2008, 09:33 PM
Mine too. I made a lot of money on their grass racing. I've played it pretty regularly over the past few years. Sorry to see it close.
I would have to say that the chance it closes is around 25% based on what I know.