HOOVESPLAYERS GOT PAYED

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

THIS IS FROM MY WEBSITE TODAY..

CARRY OVER AT THE BIG A 100K PICK 4 WAS HAD ALSO. PRETTY CRAZY..HOPE YOU ENJOYED THE 4 PROGRAM DAY SAT TODAY WE
GET BACK TO THE BIG A AND HOLLYWOOD IF I HAVE TIME ILL DO FG OR TAMPA..
RACE 1 6F CLAIMING 20K
PP 7 BLACKFOOT TRAIL ML 6-1
PP 4 STOLIASIROS ML 3-1
PP 9 PAYIN KIND ML 9/2 WINS!
-----------------------------------
PP9 PAYIN KIND WINS 9.60
------------------------------------------
RACE 2 1 MILE MCLM 20K START OF THE PICK 4
PP 9 TIOGA TIGER ML 10-1 WINS
PP 3 SILVER HUNTER ML 20-1
PP 8 CREDIT STORM ML5-1
----------------------------------------
PP 9 TIOGA TIGER WINS 29.80 13.60
D/D 9/9 162.50
RACE 3 6F 75K O/C
PP 9 BREAK POINT 8-1 ''V' 2ND
PP 8 STETTER ML 3-1 WINS
PP 5 HUGE PARTY ML 6-1
--------------------------------------------
PP 8 STETTER 5.20
PP 9 BREAK POINT 6.50
DD 9/8 112.50
EXT 42.60
PICK 3 9/9/8 595.00

RACE 4 START OF THE PICK 6 6F CLAIMING 7K
PP 5 FRGETARA ML 12-1 WINS
PP 6 HEDGE FUND ML 8-1
PP 10 STRIGHTTHROUGH THE HART 10-1
PP 5 FREGATARA 17.60 8.20
D/D 8/5 102.50
PICK 3 9/8/5 1,604.00
--------------------------------------
RACE 5 6F ALLW 44K
PP 10 SMOKIN HERO ML 5/2
PP 9 HIERTOTHESTONE ML 3-1
PP 5 GIANT RYAN ML 6-1 WINS
PP 5 GIANT RYAN 19.60 5.60
PP 9 HEIRSTOTHESTONE 3.30
EXT 5/9 67.50
D/D 5/5 161.00
PICK 3 8/5/5 753.00
PICK 4 9/8/5/5 16,501.00
--------------------------------------
RACE 6 1 MILE MSW 44K
PP 9 MRS DARTMOUTH ML 10-1 WINS
PP 4 REFORRESTATION ML 3-1
PP 8 STRIKE THE BELL 5-1
PP 9 MRS DARTMOUTH 22.00 8.90
PP 8 STRIKE THE BELL 6.80
EXT 9/8 185.50
D/D 5/9 343.50
PICK 3 5/5/9 2772.OO

YOU SHOULD TOO..

[Mineshaft]

You should of posted this before the races started.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

i did on my web site..if you were to sign up you could have had it too

[PaceAdvantage]

Hooves is an authorized advertiser on PaceAdvantage....thanks....

[Mineshaft]

Hooves is an authorized advertiser on PaceAdvantage....thanks....




who cares?

[judd]

Hooves is an authorized advertiser on PaceAdvantage....thanks.... then he should have more class

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

what exacty did i do to not have class..

[Pace Cap'n]

what exacty did i do to not have class..

Perhaps if you had substituted "could" for "should"...

[whobet]

If you want to take credit for your picks,

DUH, you got to post them where you take credit for them,

seems like a simple rule

[michiken]

Please define payed? (http://www.google.com/search?complete=0&hl=en&q=define%3A+payed&btnG=Google+Search)

[PaceAdvantage]

who cares?I care. That should be enough.

Authorized advertisers are allowed to promote their products and or services on the board. If you don't like it, put him on ignore.

[dav4463]

The guy picks some winners. If you bought them; you would've won money. Why rag on him? Why should he post winners for free? If he picks winners and makes money selling selections....more power to him.

[Tom]

Wouldn't what he posted be considered an advertisement? Seeing how he pays to advertise, duh?

[Mineshaft]

I care. That should be enough.

Authorized advertisers are allowed to promote their products and or services on the board. If you don't like it, put him on ignore.




Thats fine but to come on here and say he had these winners is kind of well, never mind.

[PaceAdvantage]

Thats fine but to come on here and say he had these winners is kind of well, never mind.Yes, there are those who think as you do and will not patronize his business. Others might think otherwise and would be willing to give him a chance.

How is his business any different than any other? You see something advertised, and you decide whether or not you want to give the vendor your money in exchange for what he is advertising.

How do you know if and when any advertiser is telling you the truth about their product? Why single this guy out?

[Frontenac]

He does need to learn how to spell though.

[Mineshaft]

Yes, there are those who think as you do and will not patronize his business. Others might think otherwise and would be willing to give him a chance.

How is his business any different than any other? You see something advertised, and you decide whether or not you want to give the vendor your money in exchange for what he is advertising.

How do you know if and when any advertiser is telling you the truth about their product? Why single this guy out?




Not singling him out. Every tout i see come on here and other forums and say they had this and they had this winner without posting it i tell them to get lost.

[Tom Barrister]

I might as well get everybody angry at me at the same time; it's been that kind of day so far.

Please define payed?

He does need to learn how to spell though.

Why? Do you suppose that anybody over 10 years old, who didn't have their head stuck so far up their ass over spelling that they couldn't think straight, didn't mentally translate "payed" into "paid"?

Agreed that it would look better if the horses were listed here in advance, but that would just mean more Yum Yum's would hog on the freebies, beg or goad the advertiser into providing more, and never pay a dime. On the flip side, the advertiser MIGHT get a few customers. It's not likely that there would be many, as a lot (but certainly not all) people who participate here already know everything there is to know about horse racing and/or are too cynical to believe that anybody can offer a legitimate service.

The other issue being raised is that we haven't seen posts from the advertiser for the various days that may have resulted in a losing session. That's also understandable and needn't be elaborated on.

To the advertiser: if the plays you're listing as winners aren't available to the public somewhere (in other words, if access to them is restricted to subscribers), it's difficult to verify their validity, unless a known and/or trusted member here verifies it. That's the point some are making. To come in here and pointblank say "I had the winners of X races at TrackA", without any way for others to verify it, is going to raise skepticism, especially on this forum.

I care. That should be enough.

Authorized advertisers are allowed to promote their products and or services on the board. If you don't like it, put him on ignore.

Boss: Advertising their services in banners or click-to links is one thing. There have been a few over time who/which are/were questionable at best. If they post here in an interactive environment, they should be held to the same level of accountability that everybody else is.

The above is my opinion, and whoever is reading this may have different views.

[JustRalph]

The guys an advertiser........what the hell is the problem?


If he had posted the horses before, nobody would have paid, payed, any attention anyway. :lol:

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

sorry about my spelling mistakes..my fault totally..as to the validity of the plays in my service.what you see it what you get.in hindsite i should not have gone this route. ive had many years of posting plays for free on dt and my old blog. after a friend of mine was hoodwinked out of a grand from respected service that gave him chalk..i started this service...your only as good as your last winner..and my customers are happy. sorry to offend anyone who posts their picks for free..find me one that had the 16 k pick 4 at aq and the 13k pick 4 at tampa bay..thats what my site has to offer.. have a great holiday

hooves

[cmoore]

Hooves, I'm sure you hit plenty of winners..But this game is about the bottom line after all bets are played..For advertisers to come on here and say they had this or had that doesn't really hold a lot of water if the previous 4 days you got crushed. A running total on all bets is much better route to go imo..You say you hit those picks 4's and I believe you. But how many days and tickets did it take to hit those..How deep would someones pocket have to be to play those on a daily basis to actually hit the big ones. Cuz most customer don't have a bottomless pit of cash..Personally I would never pay for picks. So you know what..Do what ever the hell you want..:lol:

One more point..I'm one of the few on this site when I post picks for the day in advance. I give a final tally at the end of the day..I should start my own pick site. Maybe I could get a piece of the pie..Hey Pace..Would u hook me up with the first month of avdertising free??

[juanepstein]

usually sites that have you pay for picks give out a couple free picks daily to get people interested.

having people pay for picks just by showing them a good hit every month by giving 4 picks per race is insane.

nice hits on those pk4 though.

[Tom]

Not singling him out. Every tout i see come on here and other forums and say they had this and they had this winner without posting it i tell them to get lost.

How nice you feel free to tell sponsors of this site to get lost.

[GaryG]

Hooves....keep on rocking in the free world...:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

GG

[Mineshaft]

How nice you feel free to tell sponsors of this site to get lost.





When touts come on here and say they had that winner without posting it, its wrong. They lose all credibility with me. How about i come on here and tell you i hit that $40 horse. So we are suppose to believe this guy that he hit all these winners? watever dude.

[Tom]

He posted them on his site. What's you problem?

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

He posted them on his site. What's you problem?

his problem is hes to stupid to grasp the whole idea..im shocked..

[Mineshaft]

his problem is hes to stupid to grasp the whole idea..im shocked..





whats wrong with posting them here? Give us some picks you might be able to sign up more people if they see you can pick winners. Geez what a great idea.

[michiken]

he's TOO stupid to grasp the whole idea.

get a grip on the English Language.

[Frontenac]

I might as well get everybody angry at me at the same time; it's been that kind of day so far.





Why? Do you suppose that anybody over 10 years old, who didn't have their head stuck so far up their ass over spelling that they couldn't think straight, didn't mentally translate "payed" into "paid"?



This man is running a business, as such he should be professional in his promotional approach. This includes spelling words correctly.

Yes, we all knew what he meant, however I suspect that there might be some sort of correlation between handicapping and spelling. Pattern recogniton and all.

[Frontenac]

Tom Barrister, Did you catch the spelling mistake in my last post.
Doesn't that bug you to no end. The hypocrisy :lol: of it all.

[Tom Barrister]

Tom Barrister, Did you catch the spelling mistake in my last post.
Doesn't that bug you to no end. The hypocrisy :lol: of it all.

You need to learn proper use of punctuation.

This thread is over. We've been down this "post free picks here!" road many times in the past, and all tha's gong on now is name-calling and rehashing the same thing over and over.

[MONEY]

I've read this entire thread, and I can't see how anybody could go after hooves for advertising. He pays for the privilege to hawk his product and like all good advertisers he points out the good qualities of his product & not the bad.

As for giving free samples of his picks, he has done that in the past.

Now for the nitty gritty. Lets do the math.
The 2 pick4s that he sold on his site in the last week paid a combined $30,000.
Both of the P4s were hit with a 3x3x3x4x$2=$216 combo.
They were both hit using only the 1st three picks, but he did not specify to play only the 1st three picks.
He sells picks for many different tracks. There are 17 tracks running today with probably 25 P4s between them.

Let's say that hooves sells about 20 P4s a day.
20x$216.00=$4,320 a day on P4s.
$4,320x7=$30,240 per week.
$30,240x4=$120,960 a month.
You can see what I'm getting at with this.
I think that I saw a post about a month or two ago from hooves about another P4 hit.

I need say no more.

money

PS I only have a high school diploma from Morris High in the Bronx, so please don't correct my misspellings, punctuation or grammer.

[Tom]

Frontenac, let me guess, third grade?
How fortunate we all are you found this place. Your contributions so far have been stellar. Keep up the good work.
We really need more like you here.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

i dont do more than three tracks per day..fyi.and monday and tuesday are dark days.its all good .my selections are for multi exotic play a 'v' next to a horse gets a win place bet. i do not tell the player who why or what to bet. my service is to give full card selections and find value plays the public will not..really simple..

[speldedo]

I've read this entire thread, and I can't see how anybody could go after hooves for advertising. He pays for the privilege to hawk his product and like all good advertisers he points out the good qualities of his product & not the bad.

As for giving free samples of his picks, he has done that in the past.

Now for the nitty gritty. Lets do the math.
The 2 pick4s that he sold on his site in the last week paid a combined $30,000.
Both of the P4s were hit with a 3x3x3x4x$2=$216 combo.
They were both hit using only the 1st three picks, but he did not specify to play only the 1st three picks.
He sells picks for many different tracks. There are 17 tracks running today with probably 25 P4s between them.



Let's say that hooves sells about 20 P4s a day.
20x$216.00=$4,320 a day on P4s.
$4,320x7=$30,240 per week.
$30,240x4=$120,960 a month.
You can see what I'm getting at with this.
I think that I saw a post about a month or two ago from hooves about another P4 hit.

I need say no more.

money

PS I only have a high school diploma from Morris High in the Bronx, so please don't correct my misspellings, punctuation or grammer.



I get your point and have to agree with the other posters - it's all about the bottom line. As an advertiser he can make posts like this but I'm not impressed. Reminds me of those guys on tv touting their football picks.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

its not snake oil..wow the math on his thread is way off.. if its not for you thats fine. but some people do need help to be a successfull player.if you hit one exacta or pick 3 it pays for the month..

[Floyd]

Originally Posted by Tom Barrister
Why? Do you suppose that anybody over 10 years old, who didn't have their head stuck so far up their ass over spelling that they couldn't think straight, didn't mentally translate "payed" into "paid"?

Actually, every time I see "payed" I mentally translate it into "played," and I'm over 10 years old.
Your second condition may well apply, though.

Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure it does judging from the number of people who have mentioned it.

[Bubba X]

in hooves we trust

[Dahoss9698]

Hooves, I wouldn't worry about it. So far the best anyone has come up with to knock you is spelling mistakes. It seems pretty simple to me. You are selling picks, not trying to win a spelling bee. You pay to advertise here and PA has no problem with any way you have advertised.

Keep up the good work. Unfortunately, as we have seen A LOT there are lots of jealous people that like to knock anyone that is more successful than they are. Buying your service or anyone's for that matter isn't for everyone. But, you must be doing something right and as long as your customers are happy, I don't see the problem.

[Anderon]

Hooves, I don't ever knock any body for posting their selections I actually encourage it, as it is a very difficult game to try to master, so I appluad you for doing so. The only problem I see here is that your only showing what won out of your selections for the day but how many other selection were made that day that did not win? This would give everyone a snapshot of your day and how you are really performing. When I post my selections I always show at the end of the day my recap of every single selection and my losses and or profits bar none, good or bad, and believe me I've had some horrible days. But this then let's everyone know the true results of your handicapping talents. What everyone really wants to know is, are you making a true profit on your selection service or are you really in the end not doing very well over all.

Just my point view from what I'm reading on all this. :ThmbUp:

[ezrabrooks]

I guess Tom B. is now the Official in charge of when a Thread ends.. At least he didn't suggest incest this time.

Ez

[Frontenac]

Thanks to both Toms.

They are such warm and fuzzy fellas.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

TURFWAY PARK SAT


-------------------------------------------
RACE 2 6F MAIDEN CLAIMING 15K

PP 2 REGISTRY ML 12-1 'V'
PP 10 PROFILEING ML 2-1
PP 7 DAN STONE ML 12-1
------------------------------------------
RACE 3 1 MILE CLAIMING 5K

PP 9 BETTY SIGERLING ML 30-1
PP 10 SADDLE A WINNER ML 3-1
PP 7 CLASSY KELLY ML6-1
PP 6 IN HALE ML 20-1
------------------------------------
RACE 4 6.5F 75K

PP 3 TOSKAS KISS ML7/2
PP 5 KATIEO READY ML 20-1
PP 8 EXCITING SLEW ML 15-1'V'
---------------------------------------------------------
RACE 5 1MILE AND 1/16TH MDN 15K

PP 2 INKI BLANKFORD ML 8-1 'V'
PP 6 DEVESTATOR ML6-1
PP 9 VENTRY ML 3-1
------------------------------------
RACE 6 1 MILE CLM 15K

PP 3 MAKUTAS ML 7/2
PP 8 AUSTINAGAIN ML 8-1
PP 5 CITIZEN JOHN ML 3-1
------------------------------------------
RACE 7 6F CLAIMING 15K

PP 2 SAVY CAT ML 4-1
PP 3 PRIMETIME MISS ML 12-1 'V'
PP 4 NAVY FLEET ML 9/2
PP 9 MEDDIG0 ML 3-1
--------------------------------------
RACE 8 1 MILE ST ALLW 10K

PP 12 FLATTER ME ROSE ML 15-1 'V'
PP 9 SMART BALLET ML 4-1
PP 1 JUMP ENUF ML 4-1
--------------------------------------------
RACE 9 5.5F MSW 22K

PP 1 FLEET DAYJUR ML 12-1
PP 5 MAGICAL FREEDOM ML 6-1
PP 8 OUR CUP OF SOUP ML 8-1 'V'
-------------------------------------------------
RACE 10 1 MILE ALLW 24K

PP 3 HORSE DOCTOR ML 4-1
PP 2 LIONS C ML 2-1
PP 9 CULTURED ML 10-1 'V'
-----------------------------------------
RACE 11 6F THE GOWELL

PP 5 LADYS LAUGHTER ML 5-1
PP 9 EMMA DARLING ML5/2
PP 10 STEP OUT SMARTLY ML 6-1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RACE 12 1MILE AND 1/16TH MSW 22K
PP 5 VERDENT 7/2
PP 6 OUT OF REALITY ML 5-1
PP 9 BEAUTIFULL BREW ML 15-1 'V'
-----------------------------------------------------
GOOD LUCK HOOVES here is turfway..

[toetoe]

Consider me behooved, bothered and bewildered. :confused:

[Frontenac]

Thanks for putting the picks up Hooves.
It takes guts to post for TP.

I would venture to say that you are going to be in tough there this afternoon.
We'll see how it shakes down.

[Tom Barrister]

Thanks to both Toms.

They are such warm and fuzzy fellas.

No, actually, we're both being assholes here. I'm only an asshole when the target deserves it; that's also my impression of how the other Tom acts.

Hooves, I wouldn't worry about it. So far the best anyone has come up with to knock you is spelling mistakes.

Not really. It's been correctly pointed out that the advertiser redboarded in the original post; in other words, he posted selections that weren't verifiable before-the-fact, or at least that nobody on this forum could verify the existence of before the fact. That's hardly a minor issue.


Actually, every time I see "payed" I mentally translate it into "played," and I'm over 10 years old.


A good point, although I would think most people could figure out the correctly-spelled word from the context.

[Dave Schwartz]

IMHO, the only thing that Hooves is guilty of is not understanding the "PA Protocol." Tat is, the fact that anything resembling red-boarding, especially by a vendor, is going to be met with lots of negativity.

So, now that he seems to get it, perhaps we could give the guy a break?

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Frontenac]

No, actually, we're both being assholes here. I'm only an asshole



This type of language is not necessary.
In fact, it's rather classless.

[Tom]

Call me a book end.

[juanepstein]

does it show confidence in your picks when your giving out 3 to 4 picks a race. on top of that every race. come on who has a tip in every race.

[Dahoss9698]

Not really. It's been correctly pointed out that the advertiser redboarded in the original post; in other words, he posted selections that weren't verifiable before-the-fact, or at least that nobody on this forum could verify the existence of before the fact. That's hardly a minor issue.





Let's see. Hooves sells his picks. He is an authorized advertiser at this site, which means he pays the owner for the ability to advertise his picks. The guy that he pays to advertise has no problem with what Hooves did. He was advertising that his selections, that he sells, did well. Hence he was doing what he pays to do here, advertising.

Then, people knocked him for spelling errors. So, what did I miss? If he sells his picks, why would he post them for free here? I'm sure a bright guy like you understands how a business works. If you want his picks, sign up for his site. If not, I'm not sure what the problem is. Aren't authorized advertisers allowed to advertise? Isn't that what they pay to do?

[judd]

results so far not like what he posted other day :sleeping:

[Tom Barrister]

Call me a book end.

I'm holding up the other end of the stack of books.

Let's see. Hooves sells his picks. He is an authorized advertiser at this site, which means he pays the owner for the ability to advertise his picks. The guy that he pays to advertise has no problem with what Hooves did. He was advertising that his selections, that he sells, did well. Hence he was doing what he pays to do here, advertising.

Then, people knocked him for spelling errors. So, what did I miss? If he sells his picks, why would he post them for free here? I'm sure a bright guy like you understands how a business works. If you want his picks, sign up for his site. If not, I'm not sure what the problem is. Aren't authorized advertisers allowed to advertise? Isn't that what they pay to do?

I was one of the first to denounce the spelling critics.

The following is my opinion, and your mileage may vary.

While advertisers are obviously allowed to promote their businesses, if they post in this forum, they should be held to the same accountability standards as everybody else. The right to advertise shouldn't mean that they can make misleading claims in the forum or otherwise do as they please, without fear of being called on it. When somebody comes in here with redboarded selections and claims that he/she had a big day, that person stands an excellent chance of being roundly criticized for it, or at least questioned about it.

I see that the selections today aren't doing as well as those in the opening post: 3 winners out of 8 races and 25 selections (one scratch), for an ROI of about 0.45. While today's failure isn't a large enough sample size, neither was the redboarded spectacular day at Aqueduct. At least today was posted ahead of time. The bad part is that the results haven't included too many near misses: only 7 of the 25 selections hit the board. While I may be too demanding, when I get an average of slightly more than three selections per race, I expect more than 28% to finish in the top three.

[Dahoss9698]

I'm holding up the other end of the stack of books.



I was one of the first to denounce the spelling critics.

The following is my opinion, and your mileage may vary.

While advertisers are obviously allowed to promote their businesses, if they post in this forum, they should be held to the same accountability standards as everybody else. The right to advertise shouldn't mean that they can make misleading claims in the forum or otherwise do as they please, without fear of being called on it. When somebody comes in here with redboarded selections and claims that he/she had a big day, that person stands an excellent chance of being roundly criticized for it, or at least questioned about it.

I see that the selections today aren't doing as well as those in the opening post: 3 winners out of 8 races and 25 selections (one scratch), for an ROI of about 0.45. While today's failure isn't a large enough sample size, neither was the redboarded spectacular day at Aqueduct. At least today was posted ahead of time. The bad part is that the results haven't included too many near misses: only 7 of the 25 selections hit the board. While I may be too demanding, when I get an average of slightly more than three selections per race, I expect more than 28% to finish in the top three.

As you understand, it's a business. When you promote your business, you promote your successes. I understand the redboarded part. I just don't view it like that. I see a guy trying to promote his product. I'm not sure what the misleading claims are. He showed what his picks did on a certain day.

If you don't like the picks, don't buy them. I just figure since he pays to advertise, he should be able to advertise without getting flack about it. Guess not.

[MONEY]

As you understand, it's a business. When you promote your business, you promote your successes. I understand the redboarded part. I just don't view it like that. I see a guy trying to promote his product. I'm not sure what the misleading claims are. He showed what his picks did on a certain day.

If you don't like the picks, don't buy them. I just figure since he pays to advertise, he should be able to advertise without getting flack about it. Guess not.

You can see by reading the other threads that the members here have great respect for the advertisers on this forum and for the products that they sell. Many of the posters actually subscribe to and/or purchase the products that are advertised here and are happy to pay for them. But hooves is marketing his product the same way that Ford did with it's Pinto. Great mileage, the price is right and it will definately not explode.

money

[Tom]

I love the smell of testosterone on a crisp winter morning.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

when you break down the 2 cards per day its about a buck a card.... if you can do better on your own so be it..but most of you cant..you know it and i do too.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

i dont have a tip..its not a tout.its handicapping..

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

results so far not like what he posted other day :sleeping:

really.. turfway is a crap shoot most any day..

[Mineshaft]

when you break down the 2 cards per day its about a buck a card.... if you can do better on your own so be it..but most of you cant..you know it and i do too.




cocky arent we?

[cmoore]

when you break down the 2 cards per day its about a buck a card.... if you can do better on your own so be it..but most of you cant..you know it and i do too.

Most of us can't you say..Any time to want to go heads up. Holler!!!!:p

[judd]

when you break down the 2 cards per day its about a buck a card.... if you can do better on your own so be it..but most of you cant..you know it and i do too.
cmoore can

[MONEY]

when you break down the 2 cards per day its about a buck a card.... if you can do better on your own so be it..but most of you cant..you know it and i do too.

Yeah, you're right. I'm already an admitted loser at this game. Many people on this board have already pocked loads of my cash. So I might as well pay for your full card picks so that I could lose my money even faster and make the members on the PA board even richer.

money

[judd]

keep in mind hooves is a player also but doesnt lose as much cause he has the
money people pay him for his selections-his loses comes out of his clients money

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

the problem is i bet with real money..not internet monopoly money..have a good one all and happy holidays

[MONEY]

keep in mind hooves is a player also but doesnt lose as much cause he has the
money people pay him for his selections-his loses comes out of his clients money
I don't know whether hooves is a winning or losing player. He claims not to be a tout, but he handicaps races, puts the horses in order of preference and then sells selections, so a tout he is.
I would think that he is probably a winning player, but a bad tout. Many winning players are bad touts. It's just very difficult to post winning selections for races without knowing about scratches, jockey changes, track condition etc.
My problem with hooves was his redboarding of P4s that paid many thousands of dollars but in reality would cost too much to play and in the long run would cost more money to bet than the money won.

money

[Mineshaft]

Most of us can't you say..Any time to want to go heads up. Holler!!!!:p





Ditto..........

[juanepstein]

wheres todays awesome free picks?

i wanna make some money.

[Dahoss9698]

wheres todays awesome free picks?

i wanna make some money.

I do find it a bit ironic that you take a cheap shot, then throw up a goose egg. :lol: :lol:

hollywood

2nd- :5: tokay
4th- :1: cardinal zin
7th- :3: afleets design
8th- :6: gotta have her
.......:11: in my glory
9th- :8: royal albert.....longshot!

[toetoe]

Cheap shot ? Mmmm-maybe.

Ironic ? Nnnn-nah.

[juanepstein]

I do find it a bit ironic that you take a cheap shot, then throw up a goose egg. :lol: :lol:

im not in the business of selling my picks.

when i want others to know what i have i give them away.


http://forum.turfnsport.com/general-discussion-handicapping/33054-been-watching-dana-whitney-4.html#post517849

[juanepstein]

im not in the business of selling my picks.

when i want others to know what i have i give them away.


http://forum.turfnsport.com/general-discussion-handicapping/33054-been-watching-dana-whitney-4.html#post517849

plus i dont feel it was a cheap shot. rather telling him to give it another go. who knows maybe he would of gave us some winners.

i feel your post was cheap shot but ill get over it. im not gonna go looking for any of your personal picks.

[Dahoss9698]

im not in the business of selling my picks.

when i want others to know what i have i give them away.


http://forum.turfnsport.com/general-discussion-handicapping/33054-been-watching-dana-whitney-4.html#post517849

At least we got to what really is pissing people off. You're mad that Hooves can sell his picks and you can't. Interesting. If I didn't know better I'd think people were jealous.

The stuff from another board is a nice touch. Not sure how it has anything to do with what you put out today, but okay. Hopefully you didn't "give away" what you had to that board today also.

[Dahoss9698]

plus i dont feel it was a cheap shot. rather telling him to give it another go. who knows maybe he would of gave us some winners.

i feel your post was cheap shot but ill get over it. im not gonna go looking for any of your personal picks.

So you can dish it, but not so good at taking it huh? Go back and read your contributions to this thread. It was a cheap shot, we both know it. If you're going to give someone a shot, at least be a man about it and admit it.

[how cliche]

Players who look to other people for their selections have already lost before they begin. In order to succeed you must trust your stuff.

The end.

[cmoore]

I do find it a bit ironic that you take a cheap shot, then throw up a goose egg. :lol: :lol:

So Juan had a bad day posting his picks in advance. So what..Him and I post our picks quite frequently on this site several days a month in the pick thread. We do better then any of these touts. Who can bet every race on a particular card listing 3 or 4 picks and actually make money. If Hooves bet every pick he posted, it would be a loss in the long run. By the way my advance picks for the day made a profit.

Maiden plays for today...All to win

Charles race 3)..:3: Rare Attitude..Won $12.60

Fairgrounds race 2)..:12: Metal Man...out

Fairgrounds race 6)..:7: Achnasheals..out

Hollywood race 3)..:3: Scarbourough..out


Saturdays picks in the pick thread.....
Philly race 3)..:3: to win...the 1 or 5 don't even come close to par...This 3 has a nice 4F work on Nov 24th....Won $25.60

Turfway race 2)..:1: Kennys Prize to win...Rushed up in last going 3 wide from the 10 post..Gets rail today and could wire em..He was 3rd at the 6F mark in last..Shortens up today..Won $44.00

[juanepstein]

At least we got to what really is pissing people off. You're mad that Hooves can sell his picks and you can't. Interesting. If I didn't know better I'd think people were jealous.

The stuff from another board is a nice touch. Not sure how it has anything to do with what you put out today, but okay. Hopefully you didn't "give away" what you had to that board today also.

lol, no im not jealous at all and im not mad at him. dont know how you figured that one out. in fact most of the stuff i said yesterday was not personal but rather hinting maybe he should slimline his picks and give out free picks to get people interested because usually thats how picks sites work. he didnt seem to have a problem for i wrote so you answering for him seems pretty weird. your not hooves are you or do you have something personal with me.

no i didnt give out what i posted today. my friends know when im giving them tips. they all dont win thats why i would never sell picks.

[Dahoss9698]

So Juan had a bad day posting his picks in advance. So what..Him and I post our picks quite frequently on this site several days a month in the pick thread. We do better then any of these touts. Who can bet every race on a particular card listing 3 or 4 picks and actually make money. If Hooves bet every pick he posted, it would be a loss in the long run. By the way my advance picks for the day made a profit.




Saturdays picks in the pick thread.....

And Hooves had a bad day also. So what? We can play this game all day. Juan gave a cheap shot and he got one back. Sorry he can't take it. But, if he wants to ridicule one for their picks, then he should probably be ready when he has an 0 fer also.

I'm glad you guys post your picks. You seem very proud of yourself for it and that's nice. I'm not sure who does better, because to be honest, I'm not keeping track. I would never pay someone for picks. It's just not me. But, there are all kinds of people and bettors. So, if you think you have the goods, sell them. If not, it just kind of comes across as you being jealous that Hooves or whoever can and you can't.

I can tell you this. Hooves bets what he picks. I'm not his accountant, so I can't tell you how well he does, but I've seen him come up with some huge scores.

[juanepstein]

So you can dish it, but not so good at taking it huh? Go back and read your contributions to this thread. It was a cheap shot, we both know it. If you're going to give someone a shot, at least be a man about it and admit it.

i never gave him a cheap shot.

you feel that it was a cheap shot and thats your problem.your reading into everything i wrote completely wrong. in fact i gave him props for hittin the pk4.

[Dahoss9698]

i never gave him a cheap shot.

you feel that it was a cheap shot and thats your problem.your reading into everything i wrote completely wrong. in fact i gave him props for hittin the pk4.

I actually think I have it figured out pretty good. No matter how you want to spin it now.

[juanepstein]

I actually think I have it figured out pretty good. No matter how you want to spin it now.

i see how your spinning it so I have it figured out pretty good now.

[cmoore]

I actually think I have it figured out pretty good. No matter how you want to spin it now.

OK Hooves!!!;)

[turfnsport]

Juan,

Is it just me or does Hooves remind you of one of your buddies?

http://ckraebel.encblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/horshack.jpg

[juanepstein]

Juan,

Is it just me or does Hooves remind you of one of your buddies?

http://ckraebel.encblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/horshack.jpg

lol, is that simon brays face pasted on horseshack.

[judd]

dahoss must pay for picks

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

this got out of control. have a good holiday..i will continue to redboard,and not make any profit for 09' happy now..:)

[Mineshaft]

If you want people to like you and buy your picks then come on here and show us what you got. But coming on here and telling us you hit the Pick 4 after the races are over is bullshit.

[lamboguy]

if anyone has good picks why would they sell them? we are dealing with parimutual betting. the guy making "the good picks" can bet them into the mutual pools instead of selling them. its a lot cheaper to go in that direction instead of working hard to market those picks!

[Dahoss9698]

dahoss must pay for picks

I would never pay someone for picks. It's just not me. But, there are all kinds of people and bettors.

You guys are indeed special. Apparently, regardless of the fact Hooves pays to advertise, you don't want him to. Fair enough. I'm sure PA appreciates it.

[Dahoss9698]

if anyone has good picks why would they sell them? we are dealing with parimutual betting. the guy making "the good picks" can bet them into the mutual pools instead of selling them. its a lot cheaper to go in that direction instead of working hard to market those picks!

You seem like a sharp guy, so I'll try and go slow. Can't you bet your picks and also sell them to people who want them? I mean a business is a business. So at the end of the day, if your customers are happy with your service, isn't that all that matters?

[Tom Barrister]

I can tell you this. Hooves bets what he picks. I'm not his accountant, so I can't tell you how well he does, but I've seen him come up with some huge scores.

So now a persoin identifies himself/herself as knowing the advertiser and who has seen the advertiser in action and can proclaim his integrity.

Therefore, it's my opinion that we need a:

http://www.br52.com/shill.jpg

Your mileage may vary on that.

If so, the identification of a shill was the only thing new in the past three pages. Everything else (and about half of the other three pages) is a rehash of what's already been said. All we have now is a reiteration of what was said in the first ten posts, name-calling, poster-attacking, and other horseshit.

I'm going to do this one more time:

The following all-caps bold-type wording has been an understood mantra of this forum (anal types: that means that it hasn't been written in as many words on the ToS page) since its inception in the last Millenium. Read it carefully:

ANYBODY WHO POSTS HERE IN THIS FORUM MAY BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANYTHING POSTED.

Nowhere have I seen the Boss say advertisers are exempt from scrutiny. What they put in their ads and on their websites is one thing. My understanding is that what they post here in the forums is supposed to be another.

There's a reason that a distinction needs to be made between the two areas. People should know enough to not believe everything they see in banner ads and on third-party websites. Most people who visit this forum can tell that whatever is posted here is policed (and sometimes over-policed) by the various members. Bullshit is generally called very quickly, as happened to a poster who has been here since the board opened nearly a decade ago. People falsely calling bullshit are quickly put in their places, as has happened to me the few times I've made a mistake in calling bullshit. What people read is generally believed to be true or an opinion, or others will step up and point out that it may not be true or may be exaggerated. That's how it should be (in my opinion), as it gives the forum validity: probably the one horse-racing forum on the internet that regulars and outsiders know that they can trust to get the straight scoop. To exempt advertisers and allow them to roam freely in the mainstream forums with what may be untrue or exaggerated claims, and not have them accountable for same, brands the place as just another shill site, along the lines of TheRX.com, EOG.com, etc.

Therefore, I'll be surprised if the Boss ever steps forward and says that ANYBODY (including him) is allowed to post freely in any forum without being corrected when out of line. If and when that happens, I will of course abide by the rules, but I will also put every exempted person on ignore, including those whom I know are honest.

That's my opinion and my beliefs of the current situation(s), and your mileage may vary.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

as it should be..nice post tom

[Dahoss9698]

So now a persoin identifies himself/herself as knowing the advertiser and who has seen the advertiser in action and can proclaim his integrity.

Therefore, it's my opinion that we need a:

http://www.br52.com/shill.jpg

Your mileage may vary on that.

If so, the identification of a shill was the only thing new in the past three pages. Everything else (and about half of the other three pages) is a rehash of what's already been said. All we have now is a reiteration of what was said in the first ten posts, name-calling, poster-attacking, and other horseshit.

I'm going to do this one more time:

The following all-caps bold-type wording has been an understood mantra of this forum (anal types: that means that it hasn't been written in as many words on the ToS page) since its inception in the last Millenium. Read it carefully:

ANYBODY WHO POSTS HERE IN THIS FORUM MAY BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANYTHING POSTED.

Nowhere have I seen the Boss say advertisers are exempt from scrutiny. What they put in their ads and on their websites is one thing. My understanding is that what they post here in the forums is supposed to be another.

There's a reason that a distinction needs to be made between the two areas. People should know enough to not believe everything they see in banner ads and on third-party websites. Most people who visit this forum can tell that whatever is posted here is policed (and sometimes over-policed) by the various members. Bullshit is generally called very quickly, as happened to a poster who has been here since the board opened nearly a decade ago. People falsely calling bullshit are quickly put in their places, as has happened to me the few times I've made a mistake in calling bullshit. What people read is generally believed to be true or an opinion, or others will step up and point out that it may not be true or may be exaggerated. That's how it should be (in my opinion), as it gives the forum validity: probably the one horse-racing forum on the internet that regulars and outsiders know that they can trust to get the straight scoop. To exempt advertisers and allow them to roam freely in the mainstream forums with what may be untrue or exaggerated claims, and not have them accountable for same, brands the place as just another shill site, along the lines of TheRX.com, EOG.com, etc.

Therefore, I'll be surprised if the Boss ever steps forward and says that ANYBODY (including him) is allowed to post freely in any forum without being corrected when out of line. If and when that happens, I will of course abide by the rules, but I will also put every exempted person on ignore, including those whom I know are honest.

That's my opinion and my beliefs of the current situation(s), and your mileage may vary.

I'm a shill now? Because I saw a guy I know getting the raw deal? Interesting line of thinking there. Since you brought up the boss, lets take a look at what he said on the 1st page of this ridiculous thread.

I care. That should be enough.

Authorized advertisers are allowed to promote their products and or services on the board. If you don't like it, put him on ignore.


Yes, there are those who think as you do and will not patronize his business. Others might think otherwise and would be willing to give him a chance.

How is his business any different than any other? You see something advertised, and you decide whether or not you want to give the vendor your money in exchange for what he is advertising.

How do you know if and when any advertiser is telling you the truth about their product? Why single this guy out?

I guess I figured that should have been the end of it there. PA didn't see it as out of line, so I'm not really sure why it kept going. That's my opinion, although your mileage may vary.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

to mineshaft ..it was no bs i posted those 2 pick 4s as part of my selections on those days..they were on my site as is for those who had access.ie my customers..now you can still call it bullshit and thats fine. your just protecting the integrity of the selections section here..ive got no problem with that. if i had posted those days here before the races.im sure you would have a diffrent take on things..as i have no reason to bs anyone and those who know me from dt will tell you that ive given out many a good days plays...i do bet my selections when i see that i like the card..noone should bet every race as that is never profitable..but my service is for full card selections...

[Tom Barrister]

I'm a shill now? Because I saw a guy I know getting the raw deal? Interesting line of thinking there. Since you brought up the boss, lets take a look at what he said on the 1st page of this ridiculous thread.






I guess I figured that should have been the end of it there. PA didn't see it as out of line, so I'm not really sure why it kept going. That's my opinion, although your mileage may vary.

Yes, you're now a shill, in my opinion ("I've seen the guy in action", blah crap bullshit, etc.). This isn't the first time the testimonials have come out when the heat gets turned on. You can mock me (poorly) until the cows come home, and you're still a shill.

You are conveniently ignoring what has been said over and over. PA has never said: "Advertisers are allowed to post here and be exempt from comments and criticism for making unsubstantiated claims (or whatever other reason). Well known and trusted advertisers here have been challengned in the past about claims whose validity might have been questionable. Now somebody whom most here have never heard of comes in and claims that he had several high-priced winners. Several people have pointed out that this was redboarded. After seven pages of name calling, finger-pointing, poster-attackikng, and other nonsense, we now have somebody come to the forefront (after the person has posted several times previously in the thread without revealing the secret) that he knows the guy and has seen him in action and that BY GOLLY! he bets his own picks!

http://www.br52.com/baloney.jpg

We haven't seen this song-and-dance routine more than a hundred times in the past. It's getting very old. I'm surprised some first-post wonder hasn't shown up and proclaimed that he/she had the pick-whatevers and paid off the mortgage on the hosue, thanks to the selections in the opening post.

I've been very careful in this thread, as I try to be up to a point, in not stating in so many words that there's bullshit going on. I try to post the facts and let the reader decide what the truth is. With the apperance of a shill, I'm not even going to bother anymore. The rest of you can kick the shit back and forth until Osama bin Laden is invited to dinner at the White House. I've made my point clear. PA can leave this thread open for another 30 or 40 pages if he wishes, but nothing much new is likely to happen.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

hey tom relax..its just a thread,,i dont need to be called a shill.and ive not called you a thing..

[Dahoss9698]

You couldn't be more wrong about the shill part. I'm not going to go back and forth because your mind is made up. But, you're wrong. As I said, I saw a guy I know from other boards getting what I think is a raw deal here and I responded. I would imagine you thought the same thing, which is why you initially responded.

I wasn't and am not currently trying to decieve anyone. It's not a testimonial at all. I said, I'm not a customer of hooves. I would never pay for anyone's picks. i don't need to. But, at the same time, if someone chooses to, who am i to judge them?

I'm not ignoring anything. It's actually the opposite. You are ignoring what PA said. i could post a funny picture, but it won't change the fact you have no idea what you are talking about. it also won't change the fact that for some reason you have decided you're a moderator now. Good luck with that. Of course, your mileage may vary.

[Tom Barrister]

By golly, your right. I'm wrong, as is everybody else.

"Hooves" is a standup guy, and his selections are legitimate.

I truly apologize for offending you and everybody else.

I must now leave with my tail between my legs, a defeated man to your masterful attack.

This is my final post on this forum. If I ever post here again, I hope I die of cancer.

[Robert Fischer]

Yes, you're now a shill, in my opinion...

I can vouch that Hooves and Dahoss are both separate individuals who do in fact have some experience of each other's wagering.

Dahoss isn't a shill. Also seen Hooves and hoss disagree plenty of times.
I can also vouch that Hooves makes selections, and he has his days, where he hits some big ones.

Obviously he touched a nerve with some of the board etiquette.

Consider the balance between getting attention to his selections service and website, as well as being fair to the early bird customers that are so far the only ones privy to his selections.
Also consider that if he did have a big day he wants to call attention to that.

All I know is that Hooves has made plenty of posted selections on various boards, and hit some big ones. Is he pulling a fast one? I'm not a detective.
I am not going to take a side here. I agree with some of the comments that etiquette was abused and also give him the benefit of the doubt.

bottom line
Hooves has some net publicity now ( 100 replies and near 2500 views)

up to him to win you over