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View Full Version : How soon will Ohio HBPA sign off on ADWs?


NoCal Boy
12-13-2008, 08:57 AM
Now that Tampa is also in the fold for wide access on ADWs for far less than 1/3 of the gross, joining the tracks in Texas, Louisiana, California and others, how soon before the Ohio horsemen see the light and strike a deal with the ADWs for a reasonable price?

THG is dead for all intents and purposes. The leadership of the THG can beat their chests and argue without the THG these tracks would never have received the deals they are signing, and there is likely some truth to it, but as a cohesive bargaining group, the THG is dead. The economy and common sense at the local HBPA levels finally brought sanity to the negotiations.

CDI has a separate issue with the KY horsemen dating back to the 2006 contract so that might be the last to settle, but I am fully expecting Gulfstream and Oaklawn to be available as well. If not, it will not be because of the horsemen holding out for more money, rather Tracknet holding back because of TVG's exclusivity at Turfway.

Prediction...GP and Oaklawn will be open in the same manner as Fair Grounds.

Magna needs Gulfstream to generate handle from as broad a spectrum as possible, especially at host fees of 7-8%, and that will be difficult if the signal is restricted. Too many other tracks are now wide open with all ADWs for a track to stay restricted.

Tom Barrister
12-13-2008, 10:00 AM
In my opinion, it doesn't matter what Ohio does. They didn't have all that good or popular of a product to begin with. Withholding their signal from ADW's didn't endear them to the few out-of-market fans that were suddenly unable to bet due to the pompous pig-headed idiots who cluelessly overrated Ohio racing's value. Many people who did play Ohio tracks won't notice if and when they return, and many of the ones who do notice have probably filled in the void with other circuit, so many of those may not care to return.

rrbauer
12-13-2008, 10:09 AM
THG is dead for all intents and purposes. The leadership of the THG can beat their chests and argue without the THG these tracks would never have received the deals they are signing, and there is likely some truth to it, but as a cohesive bargaining group, the THG is dead. The economy and common sense at the local HBPA levels finally brought sanity to the negotiations.



You are about as shortsighted as THG is. What THG has done is up the ante for everyone, whether they got their 1/3 piece of the pie today, or not. They'll be back tomorrow.

They'll continue their divide-and-conquer, selective hardball techniques biting off another piece here and there. Where, either by their direct negotiations or from their influence over HBPA thinking, they have succeeded in getting more. That means someone else is getting less.

The "someone else" is horseplayers. We will pay because ADW rebates/rewards programs will be reduced; or, takeout will be increased; or, both. But, I guess so long as racetracks and racing associations don't lose any of their piece, you're OK with that.

Nmytwenties
12-13-2008, 06:26 PM
I could see how many would not care as Ohio offers racing of little national importance, but as someone who does exceptional at TDN and pretty well at BEU and RD I hope matters can be resolved.

I think the horsemen are ready to wait until the last minute but not a minute afterward. The horsemen "amazingly" came to a temporary agreement in October when Beulah cancelled cards in light of a export dispute. I think they are just holding out as long as they can, but once those entries are taken for the last scheduled day I think reality will set in and they will do what they need to to ensure racing resumes in January.

Does anyone know who in the hell, what individuals, operate this stupid THG organization??? I can tell you something almost for sure, bet you hardly any of the rank and file horsemen at these tracks that have been affected by their negotiations could tell you.

I don't know about the reat of you but I think that most of these tracks are taking the lead of Mr. Geary at Eliis Park, things seemed to move pretty quick when he took decisive action, right or wrong, this summer. I predicted other tracks would do the same. Beulah did decide to run apply for dates in the fall of 2008. They could have apllied for the same amount of dates and ran in the winter/spring of this year but this would have made it easier to delay the issue longer.

I mean where do some of these people go?? Many of these jockeys and trainers at Beulah could stand no chance of picking up checks anywhere else. Look at who is leading their trainer standings. Timothy Murphy saddles alot of backmarkers at Finger Lakes in the summer and Robert Roe did even worse at Prarie Meadows this summer and these are mid level tracks. I am sure some have other trades they have worked in the past but many don't so they have to make a deal when push comes to shove. Especially in this economic climate.

All I know is the PETA freaks are going to have a field day if things don't get settled and many of these horses end up at the god forbidden Sugar Creek auction. What is really going to be sad is if things get settled a month or two afterwards. Many of the runners will have met a horrible fate and only a fraction will return to the track and that means a product even worse to market to the betting public. I will say that Beulah has had for the most part this meet pretty big fields for most of their races, this won't be the case if they send to slaughter half the runners on the grounds. No one wants to take responsibility for this either, kinda sick that Beulah is using them (the horses) as leverage in their negotiations. They could keep the stable area open but not card races until the ADW issue is resolved and not threaten to create a nightmare for public relations not even a year after the Eight Belles tragedy. The blood will be on their hands regardless of how unreasonable these idiots at the THG are. Like the ad that used to run in the DRF a few years ago read with regards to horse welfare after their running days are over "It's about responsibility STUPID!!"

CincyHorseplayer
12-13-2008, 06:49 PM
In my opinion, it doesn't matter what Ohio does. They didn't have all that good or popular of a product to begin with. Withholding their signal from ADW's didn't endear them to the few out-of-market fans that were suddenly unable to bet due to the pompous pig-headed idiots who cluelessly overrated Ohio racing's value. Many people who did play Ohio tracks won't notice if and when they return, and many of the ones who do notice have probably filled in the void with other circuit, so many of those may not care to return.

You got that right Tom.I'm from Cincinnati and I have been knee deep in this BS.

The arrogance of the horsemen in this state is unreal.As you stated they don't offer up good product-7K(River Downs) and 5K(Beulah) average purses.

And on top of that the countrywide THG faction is looking for I believe 7% of the ADW take.An article I read in the Bloodhorse has the Ohio horsemen getting 8% already.If that's true these guys want more than the rest of the country is getting,an increase in purses,while putting some of the crapiest racing product in the country out there.

They have lost my 12 years of dedication.I'm only an average 10,000.00 a year bettor but I'm not the only one to have fled.

Nmytwenties
12-13-2008, 07:16 PM
If the tracks don't care about $10,000 a year bettors then they are in more trouble than I would have imagined. I would hope they weren't that arrogant. I would say they have a more than vested interest in keeping bettors like you Cincy very happy with things. It's their foolish folly if they don't.

CincyHorseplayer
12-13-2008, 08:10 PM
If the tracks don't care about $10,000 a year bettors then they are in more trouble than I would have imagined. I would hope they weren't that arrogant. I would say they have a more than vested interest in keeping bettors like you Cincy very happy with things. It's their foolish folly if they don't.

Man I tell you.I'm 35 years old and I've had a Sunlite Pool pass every summer since I was 7 years old.If River Downs is reduced to the 1 month meet they are suggesting that will mess up my whole life.I can't imagine a Saturday without the races.It's an idyllic ebb and flow.Womanflesh and horseflesh.I can't do without either.

I can deal without Beulah and their "Crisis".I have made $3700.00 plus dollars there in 10 race days as a $20 bettor,so I'll never say the opportunities aren't there.I'm just sick of not only the constant flux of track surface conditions during the winter but that even low level racing is sinking to an all-time low and they are basically say "F*** you to us bettors.Their meet was a joke last year and it is less than sub-par now.I'm returning the favor.F-them.

I can't knock you for playing it if you're beating them Nmytwenties.My last 7 days at Thistledown from 9/13/08 to 10/25/08 I netted $732.60.And I had a run one time back in 2001 where I hit 5 races in a row in 2 days.For 4-1,8-1,15-1,9-1,16-1 and $155.40 exacta,and a $100.60 exacta.All win bets at least $10 and exactas at least $7.That it will be non existant next year just has me making premature changes because I love the game and don't wan't to discontinue.I'd love to continue my betting once the TBD meet is over and be at RD every day.But it seems out of reach.In truth I think they'll get something done before then because it will be fruitless otherwise.And at that point we at least have to have a Margarita with Wildman Walker at the "Thirst N Howl" tiki bar and let him know how crappy of a horseplayer he is!!!!!

jballscalls
12-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Magna needs Gulfstream to generate handle from as broad a spectrum as possible, especially at host fees of 7-8%, and that will be difficult if the signal is restricted. Too many other tracks are now wide open with all ADWs for a track to stay restricted.

where on earth did u get 7 or 8 percent host fee?? i thought they were 4 tops