Car Czar

[Tom]

Boneheads are at it again.
The morons in congress told Fannie and Freddie how run their business and destroyed the economy. Now they, the biggest idiots on the face of the earth, jerks with no experience are going to tell the auto industry what to make, how green to make it, how small to make it, all the while totally ignoring the root cause of WHY they are going broke. Get ready to lose this industry - zero chance of success with dems telling them how to run their business. Zero chance. Barney and Dodd - two of the biggest non-productive losers ever born are at it again. If these two had been born ducks, their mothers would have pushed them out of the nest the day they were born!

Preview of the Obama reign of terror? Unchecked liberalism, a cancer, feeding off our country until it is dead? Yes. 100% certainty.

If I could bend back far enough, I'd be kissing my arse good-bye.

[lamboguy]

all i can say to that one is if you liked bush you will love barak

[Tom]

Nothing alike.

[Steve 'StatMan']

They'll need a catchy jingle:

Oh You Can Trust Your Car
From the team under the Czar
The Ford, GM, Chrysler Car Czar!

[Tom]

:lol:

[wonatthewire1]

maybe they should call in the French to turn these three losers around. At least Renault was able to pull Nissan out from the brink of bankruptcy and have them making decent cars again.

[HUSKER55]

I was down at the watering hole the other day and the guys were talking and one ol boy said that all of the big three had modern up to date plants over seas and that they did not need any plants in USA.

He was saying that Ford owns jaguar and volvo, for example, and then went on. (do they??)

If he is correct then exactly what in the hell are we bailing out. It was on FOX tonight that if the bailout happens federals judges get a pay raise of $5000. What for?

[slewis]

Boneheads are at it again.
The morons in congress told Fannie and Freddie how run their business and destroyed the economy. Now they, the biggest idiots on the face of the earth, jerks with no experience are going to tell the auto industry what to make, how green to make it, how small to make it, all the while totally ignoring the root cause of WHY they are going broke. Get ready to lose this industry - zero chance of success with dems telling them how to run their business. Zero chance. Barney and Dodd - two of the biggest non-productive losers ever born are at it again. If these two had been born ducks, their mothers would have pushed them out of the nest the day they were born!

Preview of the Obama reign of terror? Unchecked liberalism, a cancer, feeding off our country until it is dead? Yes. 100% certainty.

If I could bend back far enough, I'd be kissing my arse good-bye.

Tom,

You get no arguement from me regarding Dodd and Barney (throw in Nancy and Reid too). Your correct, they are clueless.
Now, I ask, what would you do?? How can Congress keep CEO's and other executives in line when they have failed so miserably? It seems in this country if you work your way up the corporate ladder and you lose hundreds of millions your still "entitled". Would you continue this entitlement? Are the bd of directors of GM dilusional?
I watched Trump last night on Fox state that he thought the GM CEO was competent. I dont know how he kept a straight face he's such a bad liar. He thinks GM makes a good product...really? How can anyone honestly say that.
So I'm asking do we or dont we bail out and if we do, who oversees what these parenial losers do with the taxpayer money?

[boxcar]

Tom,

You get no arguement from me regarding Dodd and Barney (throw in Nancy and Reid too). Your correct, they are clueless.
Now, I ask, what would you do?? How can Congress keep CEO's and other executives in line when they have failed so miserably? It seems in this country if you work your way up the corporate ladder and you lose hundreds of millions your still "entitled". Would you continue this entitlement? Are the bd of directors of GM dilusional?
I watched Trump last night on Fox state that he thought the GM CEO was competent. I dont know how he kept a straight face he's such a bad liar. He thinks GM makes a good product...really? How can anyone honestly say that.
So I'm asking do we or dont we bail out and if we do, who oversees what these parenial losers do with the taxpayer money?

A very large portion of the blame for the failure of the big 3 here in the U.S. lies with Big Gov and its CAFE Standards. GM, for example, does just fine with its sales and profits overseas because the Feds can't exercise any control over those sales.

The bailout will take place because Congress will really be bailing out the unions. The bailout will be designed to protect the workers' pensions. However, Congress will use this opportunity to nationalize the auto industry.
How do you like the idea of buying your next new car with the sticker that says, Approved and Designed by the U.S. Congress?

Can anyone connect the dots? Obama is all for raising the gasoline tax through the roof -- just not right now. But he will eventually. This is a given. He'll have to raise the tax in order to force Americans to buy the skateboards the Big 3 will be making by Congressional mandate.

Then the other day, Obamination himself said that it's time for everyone to end the denial about man-made global climate change. (This arrogant, dismissive remark itself is designed to shut down serious debate on what the real causes of global climate change are.) Very high on his agenda will be getting Congress to pass very harsh and very, very expensive environmental regulations. After all, this planet is also "too big to fail".

From day one, Obama will come off as some kind of superhero managing one crisis after another. Fear mongering will be the order of the day. Everything will require "immediate attention" -- just like Fannie and Freddie. Just like the banks. Just like the auto industry. The libs are already clearly establishing a pattern of rule -- one of FEAR. They will try to instill as much fear into the general public as possible in order to shut down debates on issues. They'll be telling us, essentially, there's no time to discuss these issues at length. No time for debate. We MUST act now before it's too late!

Everyone ready for the Raw Deal?

Boxcar

[slewis]

A very large portion of the blame for the failure of the big 3 here in the U.S. lies with Big Gov and its CAFE Standards. GM, for example, does just fine with its sales and profits overseas because the Feds can't exercise any control over those sales.

The bailout will take place because Congress will really be bailing out the unions. The bailout will be designed to protect the workers' pensions. However, Congress will use this opportunity to nationalize the auto industry.
How do you like the idea of buying your next new car with the sticker that says, Approved and Designed by the U.S. Congress?

Can anyone connect the dots? Obama is all for raising the gasoline tax through the roof -- just not right now. But he will eventually. This is a given. He'll have to raise the tax in order to force Americans to buy the skateboards the Big 3 will be making by Congressional mandat

Then the other day, Obamination himself said that it's time for everyone to end the denial about man-made global climate change. (This arrogant, dismissive remark itself is designed to shut down serious debate on what the real causes of global climate change are.) Very high on his agenda will be getting Congress to pass very harsh and very, very expensive environmental regulations. After all, this planet is also "too big to fail".

From day one, Obama will come off as some kind of superhero managing one crisis after another. Fear mongering will be the order of the day. Everything will require "immediate attention" -- just like Fannie and Freddie. Just like the banks. Just like the auto industry. The libs are already clearly establishing a pattern of rule -- one of FEAR. They will try to instill as much fear into the general public as possible in order to shut down debates on issues. They'll be telling us, essentially, there's no time to discuss these issues at length. No time for debate. We MUST act now before it's too late!

Everyone ready for the Raw Deal?

Boxcar

You need to explain exactly what you mean by the fed imposing ANYTHING on GM 's auto sales. You're in a dream world.
Your posts are such right wing hot air it's amazing. This situation is not a failure of right or left. It's the failure of an industry who's competition produces a superior product. I said this on a previous post:
For those who believe that the Japanese worker works for the equiv. of eight dollars an hour, like many excuse-making Americans think, your a fool.
People buy Toyota and Honda (and BMW) because they are BETTER CARS.
True some of the Union deals certainly hurt the industry, but let's call a spade a spade, the cost of the US auto worker is NOT the problem.
By the way... pensions exist in Japan and Germany, the same way they do here. I have relatives overseas who worked in German Auto manufacturing (they are not even German citizens) and they get a good pension.
So you go on Boxcar, keep blaming the Dems, and keep blaming the Unions.
I choose to blame the inferior product for the lack of market share.

By the way, I propose the same question to you I proposed to Tom:
What's your solution?
PS Do nothing is NOT an option, regardless of how good you think the "dopey three" as I choose to call them, sales are worldwide.

[michiken]

There will no bailout unless the plan passes the Senate. There is one obstacle - the Senator from Alabama.

Read about the Boycott Alabama movement (http://www.boycottalabamanow.com/) and click on facts and figures.

[Tom]

NOTHING in the bail out addresses WHY the companies are failing, and so the money is being thrown away. NO ONE in congress is qualified to tell anyone how to do anything. We are in this mess because of congressional interference in the market, and the same morons who destroyed the economy are still at it. This is union bail out and acquisition of power, and the American economy and people are not considered in the least. Like the BOA deal in Chicago, it is extortion. Obama had NO RIGHT to stick his nose in that situation, but he did, and this is just a sample of the gestapo tactics coming our way from this fool.

[WaHoo]

NOTHING in the bail out addresses WHY the companies are failing, and so the money is being thrown away. NO ONE in congress is qualified to tell anyone how to do anything. We are in this mess because of congressional interference in the market, and the same morons who destroyed the economy are still at it. This is union bail out and acquisition of power, and the American economy and people are not considered in the least. Like the BOA deal in Chicago, it is extortion. Obama had NO RIGHT to stick his nose in that situation, but he did, and this is just a sample of the gestapo tactics coming our way from this fool.



We think we may have discovered the silver lining to the continuing taxpay*er “rescues” of mismanaged compa*nies and incompetent corporate managers who then spend the money for retreats at exclusive resorts and spas.
The silver lining?
Congress and the White House have dem*onstrated they can act virtually overnight to provide hundreds of billions of dollars when they want to. ...
Remember the collapsing bridges and crum*bling highways that make up our interstate system? Remember the warning that Social Security will be bankrupt soon? Remember they said there is just no money to secure our borders? Remember they can’t find funds to upgrade our antiquated airport radar facilities to improve passenger safety? And probably a hundred other legitimate projects that there “just isn’t money to fund?”
Not true.
Never was.
The money has always been there.
It’s simply that the people we keep sending to Washington would rather spend the money on foreign aid programs to countries that don’t much like us, build monuments to themselves to impress their constituents, fund “research” projects that benefit nobody but nose-in-the*public- trough researchers, buy and maintain airplanes so they themselves don’t have to endure the common taxpayer in airports, and they’ve always managed to find taxpayer money so they can travel in gas guzzling SUVs and limousines.
And drink $500-dollar-a-bottle wine as they meet to solve the world’s financial crisis.
More and more, they’ve managed to divert American resources to people and programs that are little more than institutional looters.
But now they’ve exposed the truth.
The money is there to address America’s challenges.
Infrastructure, national security, public safe*ty, Social Security, and all the other programs for which Washington says there’s no money.
Now we know. The money is there.
And we can hardly wait for the next office holder to tell us otherwise.

The Bartlesville Examiner-Enterprise

[HUSKER55]

good point buffalo

[Tom]

Car Czar....wait a minute, isn't he the president of Afghanistan? Himmie Carzar? :confused:

Are we going to be driving Chevy Camels? (I'd drive a mile for a Camel)

[slewis]

Tom,


You still have not explained your solution to the auto problem (do nothing is not an option).

Also... we are not in the mess we are in because of congressional interference.

We are in the mess we are in for many reasons, but probably the main one is that the small number of safe-guards we had in our banking system (min cap requirements, over exposure) were DE-REGULATED by lobbyists who push and pay their way through on capital hill.

Look, I am all for "small Gov't", but you MUST have some rules and regulations or things can quickly spiral out of control, which is what happened with banks and with Fannie and Freddie.

[slewis]

We think we may have discovered the silver lining to the continuing taxpay*er “rescues” of mismanaged compa*nies and incompetent corporate managers who then spend the money for retreats at exclusive resorts and spas.
The silver lining?
Congress and the White House have dem*onstrated they can act virtually overnight to provide hundreds of billions of dollars when they want to. ...
Remember the collapsing bridges and crum*bling highways that make up our interstate system? Remember the warning that Social Security will be bankrupt soon? Remember they said there is just no money to secure our borders? Remember they can’t find funds to upgrade our antiquated airport radar facilities to improve passenger safety? And probably a hundred other legitimate projects that there “just isn’t money to fund?”
Not true.
Never was.
The money has always been there.
It’s simply that the people we keep sending to Washington would rather spend the money on foreign aid programs to countries that don’t much like us, build monuments to themselves to impress their constituents, fund “research” projects that benefit nobody but nose-in-the*public- trough researchers, buy and maintain airplanes so they themselves don’t have to endure the common taxpayer in airports, and they’ve always managed to find taxpayer money so they can travel in gas guzzling SUVs and limousines.
And drink $500-dollar-a-bottle wine as they meet to solve the world’s financial crisis.
More and more, they’ve managed to divert American resources to people and programs that are little more than institutional looters.
But now they’ve exposed the truth.
The money is there to address America’s challenges.
Infrastructure, national security, public safe*ty, Social Security, and all the other programs for which Washington says there’s no money.
Now we know. The money is there.
And we can hardly wait for the next office holder to tell us otherwise.

The Bartlesville Examiner-Enterprise

Some money was there when Clinton left Bush budget surpluses. That's all gone.

There IS NO MONEY NOW, only a great big credit card with the names of your children, children's children, and they're children's NAME ON IT!!!!

And you write for some small town paper????

By the way, I may sound sometimes like the voice of the left, or dem or however you want to describe it, but I'm not. Far from it.
But hard line right wingers on this forum see it as "their way or the highway" without looking at the truth, and the truth here is that MANY MANY MANY republicans voted to push this bailout package through.
(Incl. the rep candidate for president John McCain.)

[Tom]

Tom,


You still have not explained your solution to the auto problem (do nothing is not an option). BANKRUPTCY. That what it is for - re-organization. What they are doing now is doing nothing. They are not addressing why. That would hurt the UAW, so of course they will not force it.

Also... we are not in the mess we are in because of congressional interference. To a large degree, yes, we are. Lending institutions were told how to run their business by the same morons trying to nationalize Detroit.

We are in the mess we are in for many reasons, but probably the main one is that the small number of safe-guards we had in our banking system (min cap requirements, over exposure) were DE-REGULATED by lobbyists who push and pay their way through on capital hill. Agree, that this is part of it. Not all of it.

Look, I am all for "small Gov't", but you MUST have some rules and regulations or things can quickly spiral out of control, which is what happened with banks and with Fannie and Freddie.

Reply bolded above.
We give them 15 billion today...what has been fixed that put them in this hole in the first place? what will they do differently this time?

[slewis]

Reply bolded above.
We give them 15 billion today...what has been fixed that put them in this hole in the first place? what will they do differently this time?


Tom,

Thanks for the reply.

Ok, Bankruptcy certainly was the other alternative. I dont know what you have against the UAW. These workers are middle class americans who have a good paying job with good benefits. I'm all for that. I think you are all for that.
Heck, a police officer on Long Island with a little bit of OT can easily earn in excess of $100k per yr.

Regardless of what direction the Govt goes with this... it's the management of these companies that needs to go, not the UAW.
The UAW just needs contract adjustments.
Management are the ones who haven't figured out why Toyota, Nissan and Honda out perform them every yr. By the way, they're also taking down a bit more then the avg. UAW worker.
The problem with bankruptcy is this causes a whole new slew of credit issues which would drive auto production to a screeching halt (no pun intended).

[boxcar]

Some money was there when Clinton left Bush budget surpluses. That's all gone.

There IS NO MONEY NOW, only a great big credit card with the names of your children, children's children, and they're children's NAME ON IT!!!!

And you write for some small town paper????

By the way, I may sound sometimes like the voice of the left, or dem or however you want to describe it, but I'm not. Far from it.
But hard line right wingers on this forum see it as "their way or the highway" without looking at the truth, and the truth here is that MANY MANY MANY republicans voted to push this bailout package through.
(Incl. the rep candidate for president John McCain.)

That's because "MANY MANY MANY republicans" are gutless wonders and/or RINOs.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

You need to explain exactly what you mean by the fed imposing ANYTHING on GM 's auto sales. You're in a dream world.
Your posts are such right wing hot air it's amazing. This situation is not a failure of right or left. It's the failure of an industry who's competition produces a superior product. I said this on a previous post:
For those who believe that the Japanese worker works for the equiv. of eight dollars an hour, like many excuse-making Americans think, your a fool.
People buy Toyota and Honda (and BMW) because they are BETTER CARS.
True some of the Union deals certainly hurt the industry, but let's call a spade a spade, the cost of the US auto worker is NOT the problem.
By the way... pensions exist in Japan and Germany, the same way they do here. I have relatives overseas who worked in German Auto manufacturing (they are not even German citizens) and they get a good pension.
So you go on Boxcar, keep blaming the Dems, and keep blaming the Unions.
I choose to blame the inferior product for the lack of market share.

By the way, I propose the same question to you I proposed to Tom:
What's your solution?
PS Do nothing is NOT an option, regardless of how good you think the "dopey three" as I choose to call them, sales are worldwide.

You're living in a dreamland. Explain why the U.S. auto makers do well overseas but can't cut it here in the states. The diff between the two markets is the Federal Government and its stupid CAFE Standards. (And if you don't know what these are, google it!) These standards adds much costs to U.S. cars sold here. Anything the U.S. government touches turns to horse manure. The Feds' track record isn't very good in this respect. The Feds need to get their noses out of the private sector and let the FREE MARKET dictate to business executives viable business models.

And you really need to get up to speed. This bailout will be all about the unions and pensions. Even Pelosi stated as much when she said that bankruptcy isn't an option. Why isn't it? The answer is simple. If the Big 3 filed for bankruptcy, the workers' pensions and unions would suffer big time.
Yet, Mr. Zero Business Sense Obamination who has never run a business in his life glibly stated the other day that any bailout money would have to be tied to the companies "restructuring"! "Restructuring", the man said!? Well, I thought restructuring was a major part of filing for bankruptcy! Or am I missing something here?

Let me lay it out for you because the fog over your eyes isn't permitting you to see things clearly. The Libs want it both ways. They want to bailout the car companies (whose main beneficiaries would be the union workers), but at the same time they want the companies to restructure without going through the bankruptcy process.

And I have stated previously that the companies should file for bankruptcy. This is what bankruptcy laws are all about!.

Boxcar

[strapper]

Let's go back to horses and buggies my friends. It's the "green" thing to do! :p :cool: :5: :12:

[slewis]

You're living in a dreamland. Explain why the U.S. auto makers do well overseas but can't cut it here in the states. The diff between the two markets is the Federal Government and its stupid CAFE Standards. (And if you don't know what these are, google it!) These standards adds much costs to U.S. cars sold here. Anything the U.S. government touches turns to horse manure. The Feds' track record isn't very good in this respect. The Feds need to get their noses out of the private sector and let the FREE MARKET dictate to business executives viable business models.

And you really need to get up to speed. This bailout will be all about the unions and pensions. Even Pelosi stated as much when she said that bankruptcy isn't an option. Why isn't it? The answer is simple. If the Big 3 filed for bankruptcy, the workers' pensions and unions would suffer big time.
Yet, Mr. Zero Business Sense Obamination who has never run a business in his life glibly stated the other day that any bailout money would have to be tied to the companies "restructuring"! "Restructuring", the man said!? Well, I thought restructuring was a major part of filing for bankruptcy! Or am I missing something here?

Let me lay it out for you because the fog over your eyes isn't permitting you to see things clearly. The Libs want it both ways. They want to bailout the car companies (whose main beneficiaries would be the union workers), but at the same time they want the companies to restructure without going through the bankruptcy process.

And I have stated previously that the companies should file for bankruptcy. This is what bankruptcy laws are all about!.

Boxcar

Let me see if I understand you correctly. The reason why GM has failed is because of Gov't intervention requiring GM to impose standards (I dont even need to waste time googling them to win an arguement with a right winger boasting an IQ in the low 80's) over a period of a decade or more.

I see. So let me ask you genius, these standards are required for American cars only??? or are Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, etc required to be up to these standards as well. Stop studdering and answer the question.
How are they so profitable when they must adhere to the same standards???
Fool.

Now read the following:

The United States and Canada have the lowest standards in terms of fleet-average fuel economy rating, and they have the highest greenhouse gas emission rates among first world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_world) nations; the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) and Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) have higher fuel economy standards and lower emission standards than the United States.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy#cite_note-4)

You are one of the biggest fools on this forum. I generally stay out of political, economic and sociologic forums but toying with a Neanderthal IQ like yours is fun! So much for your alleged "fog".

[wonatthewire1]

I was down at the watering hole the other day and the guys were talking and one ol boy said that all of the big three had modern up to date plants over seas and that they did not need any plants in USA.

He was saying that Ford owns jaguar and volvo, for example, and then went on. (do they??)

If he is correct then exactly what in the hell are we bailing out. It was on FOX tonight that if the bailout happens federals judges get a pay raise of $5000. What for?

Ford sold Jaguar and is thinking about selling Volvo. Their biggest stake overseas is with Mazda with whom they share a lot of parts and drive trains.

GM owns SAAB (Swedish) and Opel (Deutscheland) - the newest models from Saturn are both rebadged Opels (the Astra and the Aura). They still make the Pontiac Vibe which is a rebadged Toyota Matrix - sort of the outgrowth of the old Geo brand.

Chrysler used to work with Mitsubishi but hasn't in a long time.

[wonatthewire1]

From day one, Obama will come off as some kind of superhero managing one crisis after another. Fear mongering will be the order of the day. Everything will require "immediate attention" -- just like Fannie and Freddie. Just like the banks. Just like the auto industry. The libs are already clearly establishing a pattern of rule -- one of FEAR. They will try to instill as much fear into the general public as possible in order to shut down debates on issues. They'll be telling us, essentially, there's no time to discuss these issues at length. No time for debate. We MUST act now before it's too late!

Everyone ready for the Raw Deal?

Boxcar


Actually, that playbook was already written for the war on terror by the neocons and the brushwacker

I guess the boomboom is just following "prescient"?

[samyn on the green]

Nothing alike.Same guy controlled by the same handlers, Barack just adds the KO punch of huge domestic programs / domestic debt builders to go along with Bushes huge nation building / debt building adventures.

[boxcar]

Let me see if I understand you correctly. The reason why GM has failed is because of Gov't intervention requiring GM to impose standards (I dont even need to waste time googling them to win an arguement with a right winger boasting an IQ in the low 80's) over a period of a decade or more.

I see. So let me ask you genius, these standards are required for American cars only??? or are Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, etc required to be up to these standards as well. Stop studdering and answer the question.
How are they so profitable when they must adhere to the same standards???
Fool.

Now read the following:

The United States and Canada have the lowest standards in terms of fleet-average fuel economy rating, and they have the highest greenhouse gas emission rates among first world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_world) nations; the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) and Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) have higher fuel economy standards and lower emission standards than the United States.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy#cite_note-4)

You are one of the biggest fools on this forum. I generally stay out of political, economic and sociologic forums but toying with a Neanderthal IQ like yours is fun! So much for your alleged "fog".

First off, Mr. Wanna-be-Genius who thinks he's brighter than the sun -- you never answered my question as to why the Big 3 run profitable operations overseas but not here domestically. Don't forget: You laid all the blame on the auto industry, i.e. the auto execs to wit:

It's the failure of an industry who's competition produces a superior product.

Now read the following

Spare me the wikepedia drivel. Virtually any moron can contribute anything to wiki and have it pass for fact when very often just the opposite is true.

Also, you overlook the fact that the foreign car manufacturers with plants here in the states do not pay on the scale of what American union workers make nor have as expensive benefit package. If this isn't true, then why in the world did the UAW refuse to accede to Republican demands for "swift pay cuts" for auto workers today? They refused to consider "slashing" wages that would bring them in line with the Japanese automakers. Why would the union throw cold water on an all-but-done bailout deal, most especially if we're only talking insignificant differences!? Instead they insisted on waiting until 2011 when their contract expires! But wait a minute! Stop the music! We have a crisis here and now, don't we? We have an emergency situation, don't we? We have to act now, don't we? But apparently the UAW doesn't think so. Well...if the UAW doesn't think so, maybe the auto industry should wait to get its bailout money until 2011!

And I find it most interesting that a lib like that moron Chris Dodd lays the blame for the bill's failure on Congress -- or perhaps more specifically the Senate when he said,

"In the midst of already deep and troubling economic times, we are about to add to that by walking away," said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., the Banking Committee chairman who led negotiations on the package.

But who really walked away here? It was the UAW -- because as I have maintained for a long time now, this whole bailout deal is about bailing out the UAW, i.e pandering to the union and its workers. It's all about preserving the integrity of their wages and their humongous benefit package. This is precisely why Pelosi stated unequivocally that "bankruptcy isn't an option" -- even though Yo-Yo-elect insisted that any deal must include a restructuring or reorganizing be each company. And this is why Dodd would not and indeed could not blame the UAW for the bill's failure today. How could he blame the very people to whom he's pandering!?

So, yes...bottom line is that between the CAFE Standards and exorbitant wages and benefit package paid U.S. autoworkers, the U.S. automakers cannot compete successfully here in the states -- whereas the exact opposite is true with their overseas operations. Conversely, the Japanese, for example, can compete and absorb the costs of the CAFE Standards because their wage and benefit package isn't nearly as inflated as their American counterparts.

Here is the link to the UAW and Senate story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos

Good luck in finding your way out of your fog.

Boxcar

[slewis]

First off, Mr. Wanna-be-Genius who thinks he's brighter than the sun -- you never answered my question as to why the Big 3 run profitable operations overseas but not here domestically. Don't forget: You laid all the blame on the auto industry, i.e. the auto execs to wit:





Spare me the wikepedia drivel. Virtually any moron can contribute anything to wiki and have it pass for fact when very often just the opposite is true.

Also, you overlook the fact that the foreign car manufacturers with plants here in the states do not pay on the scale of what American union workers make nor have as expensive benefit package. If this isn't true, then why in the world did the UAW refuse to accede to Republican demands for "swift pay cuts" for auto workers today? They refused to consider "slashing" wages that would bring them in line with the Japanese automakers. Why would the union throw cold water on an all-but-done bailout deal, most especially if we're only talking insignificant differences!? Instead they insisted on waiting until 2011 when their contract expires! But wait a minute! Stop the music! We have a crisis here and now, don't we? We have an emergency situation, don't we? We have to act now, don't we? But apparently the UAW doesn't think so. Well...if the UAW doesn't think so, maybe the auto industry should wait to get its bailout money until 2011!

And I find it most interesting that a lib like that moron Chris Dodd lays the blame for the bill's failure on Congress -- or perhaps more specifically the Senate when he said,

"In the midst of already deep and troubling economic times, we are about to add to that by walking away," said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., the Banking Committee chairman who led negotiations on the package.

But who really walked away here? It was the UAW -- because as I have maintained for a long time now, this whole bailout deal is about bailing out the UAW, i.e pandering to the union and its workers. It's all about preserving the integrity of their wages and their humongous benefit package. This is precisely why Pelosi stated unequivocally that "bankruptcy isn't an option" -- even though Yo-Yo-elect insisted that any deal must include a restructuring or reorganizing be each company. And this is why Dodd would not and indeed could not blame the UAW for the bill's failure today. How could he blame the very people to whom he's pandering!?

So, yes...bottom line is that between the CAFE Standards and exorbitant wages and benefit package paid U.S. autoworkers, the U.S. automakers cannot compete successfully here in the states -- whereas the exact opposite is true with their overseas operations. Conversely, the Japanese, for example, can compete and absorb the costs of the CAFE Standards because their wage and benefit package isn't nearly as inflated as their American counterparts.

Here is the link to the UAW and Senate story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos

Good luck in finding your way out of your fog.

Boxcar


First you say it's the CAFE standards, now your backpedaling and saying it's the UAW high costs. I spun your little head in knots on the other thread and I'll do so here as well.
GM MANAGEMENT agreed to these deals with the UAW. They're top execs are taking down 10's of millions of $$$ per yr.
THEY are should be replaced..THEY are the problem... NOT the workers.
What do you have against auto workers? Are they taking down $500,000 per yr???
Maybe GM (just like other corporations) should outsource all their work overseas. What do you want to do shithead, turn the country into "have and have nots"? Are all your kids in Med school, or law school. (I doubt it if they take after you). According to your "anti-lib hard line right wing conservative Republican bull shit" if you cant get a PHD, then you shouldn't (and won't) make more then $6.00 an hour.
These workers are hard working family people, the type this country became great with. But it's thinking by people like you (and Bill Gates) that buried it.

There are no manufacturing jobs left as it is. Your original statement said they cant compete because of CAFE standards. I burried you on that.
Tell you what... If GM were to have had the same pay and benefit scale as Toyota in the US for the last 10 yrs, guess what, they'd still be bankrupt.

Here's another bit of info your clueless about. Japan is NOT Indonesia. People dont work in Tokyo for $6.00 per hr. The costs of living is higher there than the USA, so Toyota's cost in their own country are probably higher then GM.
(Which is one of the reasons they set up shop here.)
They make a superior product, that's why they are successful, get it straight.
So stick your theory of CAFE (I dont know where your 80 IQ brain came up with that one) and put it away... it holds no water.
Oh, since your such a great business man too, go research what the profit margin is on a JAP car vs a GM car. I have a friend who owns a dealership.
Dealers make MUCH more on GM... problem is, they just cant sell the shit.

[boxcar]

First you say it's the CAFE standards, now your backpedaling and saying it's the UAW high costs. I spun your little head in knots on the other thread and I'll do so here as well.
GM MANAGEMENT agreed to these deals with the UAW. They're top execs are taking down 10's of millions of $$$ per yr.
THEY are should be replaced..THEY are the problem... NOT the workers.
What do you have against auto workers? Are they taking down $500,000 per yr???
Maybe GM (just like other corporations) should outsource all their work overseas. What do you want to do shithead, turn the country into "have and have nots"? Are all your kids in Med school, or law school. (I doubt it if they take after you). According to your "anti-lib hard line right wing conservative Republican bull shit" if you cant get a PHD, then you shouldn't (and won't) make more then $6.00 an hour.
These workers are hard working family people, the type this country became great with. But it's thinking by people like you (and Bill Gates) that buried it.

There are no manufacturing jobs left as it is. Your original statement said they cant compete because of CAFE standards. I burried you on that.
Tell you what... If GM were to have had the same pay and benefit scale as Toyota in the US for the last 10 yrs, guess what, they'd still be bankrupt.

Here's another bit of info your clueless about. Japan is NOT Indonesia. People dont work in Tokyo for $6.00 per hr. The costs of living is higher there than the USA, so Toyota's cost in their own country are probably higher then GM.
(Which is one of the reasons they set up shop here.)
They make a superior product, that's why they are successful, get it straight.
So stick your theory of CAFE (I dont know where your 80 IQ brain came up with that one) and put it away... it holds no water.
Oh, since your such a great business man too, go research what the profit margin is on a JAP car vs a GM car. I have a friend who owns a dealership.
Dealers make MUCH more on GM... problem is, they just cant sell the shit.

You know, a cockroach has more on the ball than you do and would be more interesting to converse with! You haven't answered any of my questions because I have you stymied.

If overpaid auto execs are "the problem", according to you, then how can the Big 3 can run profitable businesses overseas, but not here in the states? Do these auto execs get paid that much less for running profitable overseas operations!? Why are they so competent running their overseas operations and so incompetent running their domestic business?

Then you haven't told me why Pelosi, for example, told the world that bankruptcy isn't an option for this crisis. Why isn't it when The Obamanation also told everyone that bailout money must be tied to the automakers restructuring? Aren't most forms of bankruptcy tied in to reorganizing or restructuring?

Then you haven't told me why the UAW thumbed their noses at cementing a bailout deal right now if only they would get their workers' wages down to the level of Toyota's. Are we supposed to believe that the UAW acted penny-wise and pound-foolish in that the differences between the Big 3 and Toyota in terms of their respective wage and benefit package are only negligible?

Yes, the Big 3 agreed to these deals with the UAW, and look where it has got them!

And for your info, if you ever get a chance to pull your head out of the crapper and look around the real world, you might begin to realize that not everyone can be a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief. There are three reasons for this, sir: First, not everyone has that kind of intellectual potential. Secondly, not everyone has that kind of aptitude even if they possess the intellect. And thirdly, not everyone has that kind of ambition. The reverse is just as true, which is why not everyone can be a Dishwasher, Garbage Man or Hamburger Flipper. Therefore, I don't have a thing against autoworkers or any blue collar worker. God has blessed everyone with their own unique gifts and everyone should strive to be the best they can be and do the best job they can do. But it is the unions who are one of the scourges of this nation, and a big part of why so many companies have moved their operations overseas (that and the pernicious Income Tax System). The unions have outlived their usefulness and serve to hinder real progress. They exist primarily to serve their own self-interests. Having said all this, I also have zero doubt that corporations have their fair share of bad execs and excellent execs and everything in between. Execs rightfully get paid far more than blue collar workers because they make the big, critically-important decisions.

And one other thing since you brought it up: This country has always had its share of "haves" and "have nots". This is reality, sir. It's the way life is. I suppose you would prefer to level the playing field by having a medical doctor making as little as a receptionist!?

I am done with you because you're obviously living in some alternate reality and don't have the first clue as to how the real world works.

Boxcar

[slewis]

Execs rightfully get paid far more than blue collar workers because they make the big, critically-important decisions.



I guess all those "big, critically important decisions" haven't faired too well over the last decade.:lol:

Since the big 3 are so profitable overseas (which I haven't researched because quite frankly I'm tiring of finding your "factual statements" not very factual, maybe these executives should CEO companies there, you know, like when major league baseball players can't cut it so they go play in Japan.

I think the "jet-set threesome" would be more successful at something like a Giraffe dealership in the Congo.:lol:

[boxcar]

is what has been stuck in the wheels of progress for the U.S. automakers. Yup, that's right. 2,215 pages or 22 pounds worth of UAW rules and regs is what the Ford execs must deal with day in, day out. Does anyone realize just what the administrative costs alone must be to comply with all this insanity? This nonsense truly redefines what "absurdity" is all about. Heck...even the incomprehensible IRS tax code book doesn't weigh 22 pounds or measure over 9" thick -- but that's probably only due to all the fine print! :rolleyes:

http://laborpains.org/2008/12/12/22-pounds-uaw-rules-and-regulations/

Boxcar