Hollywood DQ

[turfbar]

First of all, unbelievable that they didn't throw out Taxi Fleet in H'wood Parks' 7th crazy never seen a worse flagrant foul ,secondly no ONE out there bitchin about it. The stewards should be held accountable, thats what kinda shit goes on in this country we get screwd everyday and we are so used to getting we are getting comfortable with it and let it continue. These people with power have no conscious, terrible, do what pleases them . F.... the public is there mantra.

A sad
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[Tom Barrister]

Agreed that a lot of politics take place. Not many Jerry Hollendorfer horses are going to be disqualified, even in SoCal. So the bettors get screwed by the owners not allowing the ADW signal to be broadcast nationwide, and then they get screwed by biased and/or incompetent stewards. Bad and/or shady stewards exist just about everywhere --- *cough* Illinois *cough*.

In this case, the stewards got it right. The horse on the outside came in as much or more than Taxi Fleet came out and caused as many problems.

[JustRalph]

I think the Stews have a new favorite in California :lol:

I don't know, I thought he was coming down for sure.

They must have had some reason :bang: :bang:

Taxi was the best horse though..........

[speldedo]

Agreed that a lot of politics take place. Not many Jerry Hollendorfer horses are going to be disqualified, even in SoCal. So the bettors get screwed by the owners not allowing the ADW signal to be broadcast nationwide, and then they get screwed by biased and/or incompetent stewards. Bad and/or shady stewards exist just about everywhere --- *cough* Illinois *cough*.

In this case, the stewards got it right. The horse on the outside came in as much or more than Taxi Fleet came out and caused as many problems.


I totally disagree, Taxi Fleet came out a lot more than the other horse came in. I don't think that it affected the outcome of the race as that horse wasn't going anywhere, but the explanation of the stewards was ridiculous.

[Tom Barrister]

I totally disagree, Taxi Fleet came out a lot more than the other horse came in. I don't think that it affected the outcome of the race as that horse wasn't going anywhere, but the explanation of the stewards was ridiculous.

Then look at it from this angle: Jerry Hollendorfer trained the winner, who was short odds.

It isn't supposed to matter who is more at fault. If both horses contribute if their own accord to some degree, and they're the only two involved, then there shouldn't be a disqualification based on that incident.

[Imriledup]

But, both horses came together, regardless of who did more damage, they both lugged out of their straight path.

Look, anyone who WANTS to see disqualifications isn't thinking straight. Stop the madness. As a serious horseplayer, like all of you are, you should want the judges to make sure that they only disqualify the most egregious fouls. Let them play. It is extremely important that very few disqualifications take place. You, as a serious horseplayer, WANT to see the physical winners get paid off. You don't WANT the results to be determined in the judges booth. If you are sour for not getting paid because of this horse staying up, just learn to pick the winner next time.

The more times that the judges keep their noses out of anything involving giving money to people who didn't cross the line first, the better.

And you people who want to see disqualifications.........shame on you. Learn to pick the horses better and you won't have to rely on the judges to flip flop results in order for you to get paid.

[BombsAway Bob]

if that happened back when Cordero or Gambardella were riding, the issue would have been resolved in the Jock's room, even if the Stews did the right thing & DQ's Rafael... I had TAXI, & was sure he was coming down. How nice to let the Stews play God & determine where an interfered with horse was going to finish.
It's not hard enough to pick winners already, now we need 'divine intervention' deciding races. As Charles Barkley would say, "Terrrible, Terrible!"

[Greyfox]

Everyone in our sports bar, including those holding tickets on # 4 Taxi Fleet, thought that the number should come down. The violation was obvious and flagrant to everyone except the stewards.

[rrbauer]

I vote for the takedown. Would've increased my P4 payoff tenfold. $70 P4..hit it and lost money!

[thruncy]

Bejarano should get days--watch...Taxi Fleet was the best horse, but if the bus driver had been on him rather than Hoist...he wouldn't have made that dangerous move. Frank, of TVG said Bejarano has "a license to kill" in Ca.

[Tom Barrister]

I watched the replay again, including the many head-on shots that the stewards were looking at. Yes, Taxi Fleet did veer out sharply and slam into Hoist the Sail and make that horse take up sharply. But Hoist the Sail lugged in two paths before contact was made. Had Hoist the Sail stayed in a straight line, as the horse is supposed to do, there would have been room for Taxi Fleet to go through. The stewards can't assume that Taxi Fleet would have continued to veer out to the point of hitting another horse if Hoist the Sail had maintained a straight path.

I haven't played Hollywood Park since the horsemen's withholding betting from ADW's, and I won't play them for a long time because of that, but I have to go with the stewards on this one (for a change).

[turfbar]

I didn't have either the winner or the fouled horse but had the 2nd placed horse and would have been moved up at 10-1, so save your pompous sermon about picking the right horse.It was a flagrant foul no matter how you see it and back in the day that horse would have been DQ"d and everyone knows it, except you people who come up with newspeak "physical winner " or he was the best horse.
I have been playing this game long time and have seen hundreds of DQ's and you live with them, not gonna quit because I got a bad call but the reason I posted was no ONE else had. Hoping you get my point.

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[Tom Barrister]

Hoping you get my point.



We get your point loud and clear. You got screwed by crooked stewards, and no logic in the world will ever convince you otherwise.

[cj's dad]

So, the NBA (which is light years ahead of horse racing in regard to credibility) found it had a crooked referee in its' midst but t'bred racing has zero crooked stewards. Yeah right!

[Nmytwenties]

Didn't see the incident in question.

This is one of those issues in this sport that just never will really be fixed. There just never will be a uniform policy (as some bettors would love for there to be), I guess it is just one man or a group of people's opinions.

I would be ok with just making a rule that said that the stewards can't bet on any races they offciate. Maybe there is already I am not aware. Of course this law would need to be enforced by track personel.

I could probably count on one hand how many DQ's have effected winning tickets for me. It is frustrating for sure,even when it is legit. I am still waiting for a DQ to assist me in a decent payoff, the only time my selctions have benifited from a DQ in my favor it was for a small payoff.

Some may disagree but I think common sense needs to be applied in any DQ situation. A horse should only be taken down if the interference in question caused him to win a race he wasn't going to win without the foul. Some might be of the opinion that these things can't be assumed but when a horse wins by 6 lengths then the foul has to be overwhelming to warrant a DQ in my opinion.

There was one DQ over the summer at Prarie Meadows that was an example of this. A horse was DQ'd for not keeping a straight path in the stretch even though he was driving and it didn't appear that the two horses behind him had enough run to compete regardless, they didn't have to take up or anything, yet they still took the horse down. I had the tri 2nd 3rd and 4th behind it so I wanted the top horse taken down but didn't think he should be,only got placed down to third no help for me though..lol.

I remember that race because the jockey on the DQ'd horse, a fellow by the name of Perry Whetstone, just disappeared afterward. He was doing pretty crappy there after a month or so riding there and I wonder if the borderline DQ made him look for another line of work out of frustration.

[Greyfox]

We get your point loud and clear. You got screwed by crooked stewards, and no logic in the world will ever convince you otherwise.

No one said the stewards were crooked.
Your "barrister" review Barrister of the evidence was offered as opinion.

Opinion evidence is not "fact."

The opinions of our patrons at our sports bar begged to differ, even those holding the winning ticket.
The fact is, you saw, and the Stewards saw, what the rest of us failed to see and/or failed to agree with the in the conclusion of the outcome of the race.
Simply stated, # 4 Taxi Cab should have come down, and placed very far behind the winner.

What I didn't mention before, was Taxi Cab was the favorite.
I offer the thought that "if Taxi Cab had been 28-1 in that race at
Hollywood, it would have been out, out, out."

Play and watch enough of the So Cal races and you'll find out.
Without data to prove me right, inquiries on favorites are less likely to be thrown out than inquiries on long shots.
I've formed that opinion without back up data but just off observation.
Undoubtedly someone on this board with all of the data base stuff that is going on here could verify that or prove me wrong.

Oh, by the way, did I mention what tracks make on the
"breakage" by Stewards keeping a favorite in versus when they don't?
Multiply that over a year and find out. Something to think about.

[Tom Barrister]

[QUOTE=Greyfox](blah blah read the previous post)[QUOTE]

Agreed. Taxi Cab should come down. No vehicle is supposed to be on the track. Taxi Fleet shouldn't have.

You're not too "foxy" today.

I can recall many SoCal odds-on favorites taken down in situations that they could have been left up. I also did mention in a post that the fact that Jerry Hollendorfer was the trainer and the fact that Taxi Fleet was the favorite could have been surmised as a possible alternative explanation. I'm very aware at how much politics, nepotism, etc. come into play.

But in this case, the stewards got it right.

Perhaps your friends in the sports bar should apply for stewardship. At least then, they'd be taught the rules of horse racing and the standards that the stewards use when watching the replay.

The fact is that Hoist the Sail lugged in two paths in the stretch. Had Hoist the Sail not lugged in two paths, Taxi Fleet would not have had to bump into him to make room. Room existed for Taxi Fleet to do what he did, provided that Hoist the Sail kept his position and did not cut Taxi Fleet off. In other words, Hoist the Sail created the situation and was the cause of the problem.

Would anybody else care to explain why the stewards should disqualify a horse or punish a jockey who was aiming for a hole that existed when he started to make that move, and who bumped a horse who moved over two paths and (inadvertantly or otherwise) cut him off?

[Greyfox]

[QUOTE=Greyfox](blah blah read the previous post)[QUOTE]



But in this case, the stewards got it right.

Perhaps your friends in the sports bar should apply for stewardship. At least then, they'd be taught the rules of horse racing and the standards that the stewards use when watching the replay.



Hmm? Perhaps I should have inferred from your Avotar nick name, you're probably a Steward and possibly one of blind mice that made that call.
Yup. I'm not too foxy today. :)

[Show Me the Wire]

Whom ever made the call was dead wrong. Hoist the Sail had just as much right going for the opening on the track as Taxi Fleet. Hoist got there first inadvertantly or not and Hoist was interfered with by Taxi Fleet causing Hoist to take up.

[Tom Barrister]

[QUOTE=Tom Barrister][QUOTE=Greyfox](blah blah read the previous post)

Hmm? Perhaps I should have inferred from your Avotar nick name, you're probably a Steward and possibly one of blind mice that made that call.
Yup. I'm not too foxy today. :)

Yes, I can see where you'd get that idea from "Registered User."

Whom ever made the call was dead wrong. Hoist the Sail had just as much right going for the opening on the track as Taxi Fleet. Hoist got there first inadvertantly or not and Hoist was interfered with by Taxi Fleet causing Hoist to take up.

Hoist the Sail didn't need an opening. That horse was in the clear on the outside, with nothing in front of him. All that horse had to do was maintain a straight line, to have a clear path to the wire.

Did anybody here even watch the head-on replays? It provides a whole different perspective than the pan shot does. The head-on is in the race replays on Twinspires.com.

Look at it from Taxi Fleet's jockey's viewpoint. He was on the rail, saw horses in front of him, looked to the outside, and saw a clear path. At that point, he steered his horse to the outside.

At the same time, Hoist the Sail veered in, for no reason other than the fact that the jockey couldn't keep the horse straight. That couldn't be seen to the jockey on Taxi Fleet, as there were other horses between Hoist the Sail and the opening. It wouldn't matter if the jockey COULD see Hoist the Sail veering in. Taxi Fleet had the right to move sideways, as he didn't have a clear path forward, and an opening existed when he made his move. Hoist the Sail did NOT have the right to move sideways, as he did have a clear path forward.

[Show Me the Wire]

I still agree with Frank Lyons it was a horrendous decision by the stewards and this is why. Horses drift in and out in every race and they have the right to do it. I agree Hoist the Sail drifted in, but the salient point is he stopped drifting in and maintained his course prior to being shoved out of the way by Taxi Fleet. Taxi Fleet may have had the right to go for an openning, but when the openning closes the horse does not have a right to shove another horse out of the way.

I like Bejarano but his riding, in this race, could have caused serious injuries out there to the horses and the jockeys.

[cj's dad]

[QUOTE=Greyfox][QUOTE=Tom Barrister]

Yes, I can see where you'd get that idea from "Registered User."



I swear I thought I had missed something.
LMFAO :lol: :lol: