PDA

View Full Version : Want to know why racing is losing its popularity


tucker6
11-30-2008, 05:38 AM
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52936

When a sport has several big events each year (TC, Breeders Cup, Dubai, etc) that are continually drowned out by the weekly horse death watch, then you have a recipe for a dying sport. My wife stopped watching races after three times in a row, a horse died. It is troubling to me that there are no standard regulations for how often horses can run races or an industry-wide vet organization that approves a horse's participation in races.

If knowledgable and life-long fans such as yourselves are pained by the state of the sport, what do you think the sport looks like from the outside by the casual fan?? It is a sport that needs a leader, and soon.

Tom

Zman179
11-30-2008, 07:36 AM
In a word: no.

The reason why horse racing is losing its popularity isn't about horse injuries at all and is more about economics and the game's difficulty. It is a game where the player has to outlay X amount of dollars to get in, obtain a program and/or a racing form, and sometimes pay for a seat. Then have to sit down and try to figure the race out. There is a zero outlay when you go to a casino or at a lottery retailer. In fact, they give you stuff!

Today's age is about the instant fix. It is a lot easier to pick a number out of the sky, or to pull a slot, or pull a card than it is to play a race. You pull a slot, you get a payout. You play a number, it comes out, you get a fixed payout. But when you play a race, you have to figure out what type of wager (i.e. win, exacta) you'd like to make, then you have to structure your plays, then you have to see if the cost of the ticket(s) is still in your range, then you have to wait for the race. And you have a time limit in order to perform all of the above.

In today's want-it-now world, horse racing is quite archaic.

MONEY
11-30-2008, 08:54 AM
Too many ways to lose.
DQ, Breakdown, Stumble, Bad Ride, Stiff, Squeezed & many others.

In horse racing you could do everything right & still lose most of the time.
Also the amount of scratches is ridiculous. You spend lots of time choosing your races, handicapping & then constructing you bets, just to find out later that your horses got scratched. It gets even worse when the post time favorite is forced upon you when there is a late scratch in a multiple race wager.

money

citygoat
11-30-2008, 09:01 AM
Eliminate the two dollar prices so the newcomer can understand how much they will win when they put their dollar down.Base all payoffs on a dollar so the patrons can save their brain power for handicapping winners.

Have the tracks standardize where a patron can find the results for today's races.Posted ,not some screen you have to scroll to your race.

Have standings for Jockeys-Top jockey on Mon.,Tue.,Wed.,.....and top jockey for all seven days combined.

BUD
11-30-2008, 09:47 AM
Eliminate the two dollar prices so the newcomer can understand how much they will win when they put their dollar down.Base all payoffs on a dollar so the patrons can save their brain power for handicapping winners.

Have the tracks standardize where a patron can find the results for today's races.Posted ,not some screen you have to scroll to your race.

Have standings for Jockeys-Top jockey on Mon.,Tue.,Wed.,.....and top jockey for all seven days combined.

as a newbie---i like that --- money's post as well--

Tom Barrister
11-30-2008, 01:27 PM
If the tracks could charge $100 admission and still get people to pack in, they'd charge $100 admission.

The harness and greyhound tracks figured it out long ago. Most of them offer free or very cheap parking, admission and programs (all greyhound tracks that I know of offer free online programs). The thoroughbred tracks, in their state of perpetual denial, still think their sport is popular and desired by the masses, and they've been very slow to change their ways to accomodate players who will otherwise go to a casino, card room, or the local 7-11 for a Powerball ticket or pull tabs.

People aren't stupid. They know that they'll have to pay $10 or more to park their car, get into the track, and buy a Form and program. If they want a seat, that might be extra, and an overcooked hot dog on a stale bun with soggy fries and a warm beer might cost them another $10. They're out $20 before they've made a bet. Then they have to worry about drugging and other hanky-panky while they fade a 14-30% takeout. Instead of that, they can do the following for the same $20 it cost them to get in and eat:

1) Drive to their local 7-11 and buy 15 one-dollar Lottery tickets, a couple of hot dogs, bag of chips and a Big Gulp.

2) Go to their local casino and put the $20 into a slot machine, and get free drinks and possibly a food comp.

3) Go to their local card room, put up another $10 or $20, and buy into a $3-6 or $4-8 hold-em game, get free drinks and possibly a food comp.

4) Go to a harness or greyhound track, get in for free, and pay $1 for a program.

Why, when faced with all of the above alternatives, would the recreational players fade everything the thoroughbred tracks throw at them?

tucker6
11-30-2008, 01:51 PM
Why, when faced with all of the above alternatives, would the recreational players fade everything the thoroughbred tracks throw at them?
Nice post! In fact, as a marketing person, I don't understand why the industry insists on fighting against the casinos and other forms of easy gambling. It is a commodity game that cannot be won as you point out. What does horse racing have in its basket to entice the average fan and/or gambler to pay attention to the sport?? Why, the horse of course!!

However, the horse is the strongest and the weakest tool the industry has to increase its fan base and thereby its dollars. Strongest because children come to love horses at a young age, and many see horses as great athletes. Weakest because when they get hurt, they sometimes die. Athletes are not supposed to die while competing (at least that is the public perception of athletes, and one must always be aware of public sentiment for support). That is why I made the comment earlier that the industry needs to promote its horses and HORSE SAFETY! Do right by the public and the public will do right by you.

Tom

Imriledup
11-30-2008, 02:44 PM
The biggest problem with racing is that because its a skill game, people who don't have hours to handicap, attend the races, make detailed notes and stay up all night handicapping, have no real chance. Those people with families and lives have no shot to beat the pro handicapper who does nothing but study the races.

Racing has never one time embraced their game as an incredible chess match. Handicapping is an incredible intellectual challenge yet the horse racing higher ups have never one time let the public know that this is what racing is all about.

All the years i've spent handicapping has really taught me to handicap LIFE. I'm always one step ahead, because my brain has been trained to 'think ahead'. My life is better because i'm able to really predict the immediate future. I'm a better driver because i have the ability to predict what the other drivers will do thru efficient data processing. I HANDICAP human moves and my backround in horse racing has trained me to do that extremely well.

To the OP who says his wife doesnt' watch anymore because of horse deaths my response to that is maybe she wasn't cut out to be a racing fan in the first place. There is always going to be bad injuries, that's what happens when 1,000 pound animals run 40 mph on spindly legs with 110 lb humans sitting on their backs. Its an unfortunate part of this game but its not something we can entirely erase. We can make the tracks and races as safe as possible, but we are still going to have the occasional accident.

Does your wife not watch the NFL because a player got paralyzed? No, she still watches if she was a fan to begin with. Your wife is not going to boycott a super bowl party because Mike Utley got paralyzed.

Tom
11-30-2008, 04:26 PM
1) Drive to their local 7-11 and buy 15 one-dollar Lottery tickets, a couple of hot dogs, bag of chips and a Big Gulp.

Throw in a copy of DRF and a copy of Big 'Uns and I'm on board!

Zman179
11-30-2008, 05:53 PM
Why, when faced with all of the above alternatives, would the recreational players fade everything the thoroughbred tracks throw at them?

Very good post.

I also dare say that another one of thoroughbred racing's problems is:

the Daily Racing Form.

Here in the Northeast the price for the DRF is now $6 for a copy which is only good between 12:30 pm and 7:30 pm; they only put in a nighttime track like Mountaineer on Mondays & Tuesdays. Last week, the tracks in the DRF were:

Aqueduct, Philadelphia, Churchill, Delaware, Finger Lakes, Hollywood.

So you're paying around $1 an hour for a paper with a quick expiration date and will only have one available track after 5pm; the NY form is very user unfriendly. And if you try to purchase it online, it actually winds up being even more expensive than the print copy when you factor in the cost of ink & paper. It's one of the things that makes thoroughbred racing a very expensive proposition even before you make a bet.

Cangamble
11-30-2008, 07:29 PM
They have free admission and parking at Ontario tracks, and betting and live attendance has been on the decline for years.
The best point I've seen so far here is that it takes time to handicap and learn the nuances of picking winners.
This hinders many, but the biggest problem is why would someone new learn all the handicapping nuances when there are no visible winners (and very few winners overall) to try to emulate.
Poker has winners, and it does take some time to become good at it (obviously not as much time as it takes to be a good handicapper). But at least when you become good at it, you have an excellent chance of breaking even or winning. This is not the case with horse racing and 20% takeouts.
It comes down to competition and the cost of betting. The track takeouts are the biggest culprit when it comes to hindering growth.

tucker6
11-30-2008, 08:01 PM
To the OP who says his wife doesnt' watch anymore because of horse deaths my response to that is maybe she wasn't cut out to be a racing fan in the first place. There is always going to be bad injuries, that's what happens when 1,000 pound animals run 40 mph on spindly legs with 110 lb humans sitting on their backs. Its an unfortunate part of this game but its not something we can entirely erase. We can make the tracks and races as safe as possible, but we are still going to have the occasional accident.

Does your wife not watch the NFL because a player got paralyzed? No, she still watches if she was a fan to begin with. Your wife is not going to boycott a super bowl party because Mike Utley got paralyzed.
Imriledup,

My wife is certainly a huge NFL fan (thank God), but I can guarantee you that if someone was paralyzed or died every month (1300 players, and stats say 3 of every 1000 horse races has a death), then her zest for the game would certainly decline. Especially if she felt the league was not doing enough to protect players. You see, the NFL has it right in trying to protect the players. The public wants a civilized sport, not barbarism. That's where horse racing needs to go IMHO.

Tom

JustRalph
11-30-2008, 08:50 PM
I play poker some too. Some of the guys I play with ask me things like "how are the ponies going? " stuff like that. But they don't care a damn bit about it really. They sometimes ask me questions but they always fall back on "I won't play a game where they cheat like that" I have heard it a hundred times.

Every once in a while I get somebody who asks a specific question and it requires a little bit of in depth knowledge and I always ask, "How detailed an answer do you want?"

Very rarely do any of my poker buddies ( I play with about 50 guys btw) care to hear what comes next............they always tell me they don't have time to learn a game that is so complicated.

It's a Nintendo world..............

Imriledup
11-30-2008, 09:57 PM
Imriledup,

My wife is certainly a huge NFL fan (thank God), but I can guarantee you that if someone was paralyzed or died every month (1300 players, and stats say 3 of every 1000 horse races has a death), then her zest for the game would certainly decline. Especially if she felt the league was not doing enough to protect players. You see, the NFL has it right in trying to protect the players. The public wants a civilized sport, not barbarism. That's where horse racing needs to go IMHO.

Tom

Agreed. Horse racing needs to do whatever it can to protect the horses and riders. Racing right now has a lot on its plate.

Dan H
11-30-2008, 11:32 PM
In contrast to the original poster's question (why racing is losing its popularity ...) ... I ask ... when does racing increase in popularity? Here's a few answers:

a. when the Kentucky Derby runs
b. when the Breeder's Cup runs
c. when we last crowned a Triple Crown winner
d. when our great grand-parents followed the Seabiscuit story
e. when you have a winning day at the track

Just re-create one or more of the above phenomena on a monthly basis and horse racing will be more popular.

Dan H

Charlie D
11-30-2008, 11:57 PM
I ask ... when does racing increase in popularity? Here's a few answers:

In no particular order

when the take out is lowered to a reasonable level
when the industry stops wrist slapping those who break the rules
when there are no restrictions
when there is free basic info for all races

SMOO
12-01-2008, 09:46 AM
Very good post.

I also dare say that another one of thoroughbred racing's problems is:

the Daily Racing Form.

Here in the Northeast the price for the DRF is now $6 for a copy which is only good between 12:30 pm and 7:30 pm; they only put in a nighttime track like Mountaineer on Mondays & Tuesdays. Last week, the tracks in the DRF were:

Aqueduct, Philadelphia, Churchill, Delaware, Finger Lakes, Hollywood.

So you're paying around $1 an hour for a paper with a quick expiration date and will only have one available track after 5pm; the NY form is very user unfriendly. And if you try to purchase it online, it actually winds up being even more expensive than the print copy when you factor in the cost of ink & paper. It's one of the things that makes thoroughbred racing a very expensive proposition even before you make a bet.

:ThmbUp:

SMOO
12-01-2008, 09:50 AM
In contrast to the original poster's question (why racing is losing its popularity ...) ... I ask ... when does racing increase in popularity? Here's a few answers:

a. when the Kentucky Derby runs
b. when the Breeder's Cup runs
c. when we last crowned a Triple Crown winner
d. when our great grand-parents followed the Seabiscuit story
e. when you have a winning day at the track

Just re-create one or more of the above phenomena on a monthly basis and horse racing will be more popular.

Dan H

Nascar (which is huge) has a big event every week & people for the most part can't even bet on it.

Every active T-bred track could rotate having a national pick-5 or pick-6 on Saturdays with a 50 cent minimum.

samyn on the green
12-01-2008, 05:28 PM
You nailed bro, the modern man is too moronic to follow something as complex as racing. Racing has been around for thousands of years and morons don't survive for long. Racing will survive this generation. In a word: no.

The reason why horse racing is losing its popularity isn't about horse injuries at all and is more about economics and the game's difficulty. It is a game where the player has to outlay X amount of dollars to get in, obtain a program and/or a racing form, and sometimes pay for a seat. Then have to sit down and try to figure the race out. There is a zero outlay when you go to a casino or at a lottery retailer. In fact, they give you stuff!

Today's age is about the instant fix. It is a lot easier to pick a number out of the sky, or to pull a slot, or pull a card than it is to play a race. You pull a slot, you get a payout. You play a number, it comes out, you get a fixed payout. But when you play a race, you have to figure out what type of wager (i.e. win, exacta) you'd like to make, then you have to structure your plays, then you have to see if the cost of the ticket(s) is still in your range, then you have to wait for the race. And you have a time limit in order to perform all of the above.

In today's want-it-now world, horse racing is quite archaic.