Gill/Shuman denied stalls on East Coast

[karlskorner]

www.drf2000.com/news/article/45226.html

[hurrikane]

I don't think it's good when you create unbettable races, whether it's a trainer that's winning all the races or a jockey that's winning all the races," said Monmouth's Kulina. "If you can't bet on a horse and you can't bet against a horse, then we're producing something nobody wants.


What the hell is this guy talking about. I made a ton of money off the Gill/Shuman connection.

They have found no wrong doing with these guys. It just doesn't pay to be successful.

[Lefty]

This is a tough game to be successful at, especially at the owner level. Racing shouldn't be penalizing success. Really good advertisement for anyone thinking of becoming an owner, isn't it?

[Tom]

Maybe this is a task that Hans Blitz and his 3 blind mice could handle...investigate Gill's barns and look for drugs of mass performance (DMP)!

Considering the bunch of NYBred slugs taking up stall in NYRA, they should consider letting winners on board. There are some pretty pitiful beasts filling NYRA races.

[Early]

Well its not like they bring in new beasts. They just claim the pitiful beasts that are already there and then send them out to break track records. And if they break down, hide the legs.

[The Shipper]

>>> I made a ton of money off the Gill/Shuman connection. <<


Why not make TONS of money on more competitive
races, ones that doesn't feature a Gill/Schuman
fave or 2nd choice.

Tis not a bad thing though, now he can hide
his growing "leg collection" on a private farm.

Hard to envision Gill/Schuman racing regularly
at Monmouth Park anyways.
They already kicked out McPeek. :o

[Tom]

Originally posted by Early
Well its not like they bring in new beasts. They just claim the pitiful beasts that are already there and then send them out to break track records. And if they break down, hide the legs.

You're not pulling my leg, are you? <G>

[Early]

Tom, I see you are in NY. I realize this isn't in your neighborhood, but do you know if this is an OTB near Vestal - Binghampton. I found the NYC OTB website, but nothing for the rest of the state.

And hey, if I had the magic potion Shuman uses, you'd be running a 4 minute mile.

[cj]

See a Gill horse, Lord Abounding, ran a 112 Beyer on 3-22 at GP and was claimed away for $150,000. Be curious to see how he does with the new connections (Eddie Plesa).

CJ

[PaceAdvantage]

Do a search on Capitol OTB. I think they run the region up there...


Try this site:

http://www.capitalotb.com/NewWeb/locations.main.frame.htm

[Figman]

Early,
Are you ever in luck! Catskill OTB and its President Don Groth have two OTBs in that area. One on Harry L Drive in Johnson City (near the shopping center district) and another in Binghamton that is supposedly bigger and better than the Johnson City branch....but I have never been there. The famous Donald Groth (from the Breeders Cup Pick-Six-Chris Harn incident) may even personally answer your e-mail as to exact locations. Try www.interbets.com.

[Early]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
See a Gill horse, Lord Abounding, ran a 112 Beyer on 3-22 at GP and was claimed away for $150,000. Be curious to see how he does with the new connections (Eddie Plesa).

CJ I thought at the time that the claim for Lord
Abounding will turn out to be the worst of the year. Would like to know the record of horses claimed off Gill versus the other way around. Can claim an awful lot of nice horses for $30 to $50k compared to trying for one home run. How much upside is there to a $150k claim? Hey, maybe the horse will be a stakes winner for Plesa, but it looks like a risky proposition to me.

The horse that beat Kona Gold the other day was running for 10k last year - now that's a claim!

[Early]

Thanks Figman - that's fantastic! Need to get in some racing when travelling for work and I'm starting to locate convenient OTB's and racetracks in most states. Thanks again and thanks PA Administrator too!

[Lefty]

Gil was on Gordon Jones' radio show this morn. He said he's doing nothing wrong. Says he feeds the horsesthe best food, gets the best vet the best farrier, etc. He says at some these trks he's been barred from that there are cliques of horsemen dropping their horses below true worth and having agreements not to clm from ea. other.
If they can't prove he did anything wrong I think it's wrong to excluse him.

[cj]

Lefty,

It's like the Vegas rule towards card counters. They can't prove it, but they don't have to, it is their house. If they don't want your business, you are out...period.

CJ

[Early]

Originally posted by Lefty
Gil was on Gordon Jones' radio show this morn. He said he's doing nothing wrong. Says he feeds the horsesthe best food, gets the best vet the best farrier, etc. He says at some these trks he's been barred from that there are cliques of horsemen dropping their horses below true worth and having agreements not to clm from ea. other.
If they can't prove he did anything wrong I think it's wrong to excluse him. Of course it's wrong to exclude him without proof of wrongdoing.

I'm not surprised that they say they are doing nothing wrong. What are they going to do - go on radio and confess and nobody has a case against them?

Interesting though, that Shuman is such a high percentage trainer all of a sudden. I guess he is lucky that he is working with an owner who has the right feed, right vet, etc...

I don't like Gil because his name has become such an important handicapping factor. A typical $25k claimer at GP has a Gil/Shuman entry, a horse who was recently claimed from Gil and a couple who are about to be claimed by Gil. How much the claims are going to move the horses up, etc. seems more important than any other factor.

Call me sceptical - I'm sure they'll be nailed with something. Unless what they are doing is undectable.

A question for those in the know - harness racing has detention barn races. Does thoroughbred racing do any of that and if not, why not?

[azibuck]

Gill not getting stalls has nothing to do with any alleged "wrongdoing" (drugs or something), or winning too much. It's the claims. He upsets the horsemen's cliques.

Why hasn't anyone demanded the head of Cole Norman the last couple years? Actually, maybe they have, but his percentage at LS was something ridiculous like 42% a year or two ago, or so I read.

I believe Gill regarding the "no claim" agreements. Maybe I've read too much Clocker Bob.

The Binghamton OTB is where I hit my first winner. I was about 20 and me and a couple buddies were going to the bar next door when I suggested we all put in two bucks and pick a horse blind. Can't remember the name or anything, but we blindly must have picked the chalk because it paid $4.40. We thought we were rich.

They've since moved across the street to another plaza, and I've never been there. I've also never been to the other one in the Binghamton area, so I can't tell you which would be better to go to. The Binghamton one is undoubtedly seedier, but the pizza place at the end of the plaza was very good (when I lived there 15 years ago. But I'm pretty sure it's still there. It's called "New York Chef's". Thin crust, very garlicky.

If you want to know anything else about the Binghamton area, PM me or just post it. I still visit several times a year, so I still know where a few good bars are.

[Zaf]

Originally posted by Early
The horse that beat Kona Gold the other day was running for 10k last year - now that's a claim!

http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2003/0327/1530240.html

amazing !

ZAFONIC

[cj]

Originally posted by zafonic
...
amazing !

ZAFONIC

Horse should be a terror in those lucrative Georgia bred races!

CJ

[The Shipper]

Please tell me all of you know about the SURCHARGES on winnings at the Offtrack Betting Parlors.


I'm certain only "losers" play there.
Or those in experimental stages of their handicapping/betting development.


Wouldn't be caught near those larcenous joints.

:confused:

[Zaf]

Originally posted by The Shipper
Please tell me all of you know about the SURCHARGES on winnings at the Offtrack Betting Parlors.


I'm certain only "losers" play there.
Or those in experimental stages of their handicapping/betting development.


Wouldn't be caught near those larcenous joints.

:confused:

I am almost sure that they add an additional 5 % surcharge in addition to the take out. Criminal. I don't see any boycotts there. Glad I don't have to play there.

ZAFONIC

[Figman]

Here's the scoop about NY surcharges. If you play in one of the seven teletheaters around the State there are NO surcharges on winning wagers whatsoever at anytime. If you have a telephone account with New York City OTB there is no surcharge. If you have a balance of $300 or more in your account at Capital, Catskill, Nassau, Suffolk or Western OTB at the time of your wager...no surcharge. If you bet at the resort known as The Friar Tuck Inn there is no surcharge.

If you wager at any of the 225 or so other OTBs around the State and win, there is a 5% surcharge on WIPS and a 6% surcharge on multiple and exotic winning wagers...with the extra 1% going towards improving the places. If you win a bet at any of the private businesses that have OTB such as bowling establishments, restaurants, sports bars,etc., there is a surcharge on winning wagers.

[hurrikane]

shipper,

I don't bet chalk, nothing under 6-1...all the plays I have made on Gill/Shuman were way before the crying game started.
I've been off them for a few weeks now and they are not a winning play.


"I don't care how the grapes were crushed, as long as the wine turns out fine


walk what you talk buddy!

[The Shipper]

As soon as Gulfstream '03 started,
there was plenty in the press about their exploits. This leading to some many overbet horses.

I'm not going to debate if you
made a score or there, but if current odds trend continues to diminish this tandem figures to turn into
Juan Serey type of situations..damn if you do,
damned if you don't.

~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

Figman,

Are you aware of Teletheaters (no surcharges)
in Manhattan or Rockland/Westchester/Long Island?

Thanks.;)

[Figman]

To "The Shipper"
4 of the teletheaters are in the area. Three in Manhattan with one on the upper east side, one just off 7th Ave south of Madison Square Garden (maybe about 37th St?) and one in the Yankee Clipper Restaurant in lower Manhattan. In Rockland, there is one in Suffern across from the train station. All charge an admission.

[Zaf]

When did they start charging in Suffern ???

ZAFONIC

[Figman]

Catskill OTB must by statute charge an admission to a teletheater. In the early 1990's Catskill OTB moved their teletheater from the Motel On The Mountain off the NY Thruway to downtown opposite the train station. Part of the new site is a regular simulcast branch while part is the teletheater that offers the on-track payoffs.

[Zaf]

Where exactly id the teletheather ?
Are they connected to each other , last August I was in the Simulcast branch betting on a Monday Afternoon ( PHA, FL & DEL).
Didn't notice the teletheather. Was I walking around in a fog ?

ZAFONIC

[Figman]

They're in the same building with different entrances. Ranking the teletheaters in NY from one to seven, the Suffern one has to be near the bottom. The two best by far are the Suffolk County OTB teletheater on Long Island and the Albany Teletheater about 30 minutes south of Saratoga. Both are located just off expressways.

[Zaf]

I wish N.Y. would show at least one Thoroughbred track at night. That really sucks. When I am in NY I always have to travel to NJ (Meadowlands) or Connecticut (Sports Haven) to bet a darn thoroughbred race at night.

ZAFONIC

[The Shipper]

Yonkers is the dumpiest IMHO.

The food sux at the BIG M, so folks phone
in and have Pizza delivered into the teletheaters.

Now why can't they get Baskin Robbins, McDonald's,
KFC, or Ben & Jerry's to start up a stand? :o

[Zaf]

Originally posted by The Shipper
Yonkers is the dumpiest IMHO.

The food sux at the BIG M, so folks phone
in and have Pizza delivered into the teletheaters.

Now why can't they get Baskin Robbins, McDonald's,
KFC, or Ben & Jerry's to start up a stand? :o

Yeah , its unbelievable. I was at the Meadowlands Feb. 21-23 and the food was horrible, the beer was piss.

Last July I went to Pegasus and had a magnificent swordfish dinner there. Aside from Pegasus, the food is the absolute worst. Damn shame.

ZAFONIC

[The Shipper]

It's almost as if the Big M makes the grandstand
food poor deliberately, to entice fans
to go to The Pegasus or Terraces instead.

$4 for a Carvel Fudge Sundae?
$1 tip for Donna if she puts extra fudge or walnuts.

You can buy 5 (five) of those at McDonalds
for the same price. :mad: :rolleyes:

[Zaf]

I went to the Hebrew National Place on the first floor grandstand for a foot long. I think I'm still digesting that inner tube.

ZAFONIC

[Derek2U]

i like the eating place overlookin the track but isnt most of
pegasus kinda away from track viewing. besides i go to M to
drink w/ my pals & i bring my sardines & peanut buttr on black
bread with me ... that + 16 beers do the trick

[Zaf]

Yeah D2U,

I was diasapointed to find that most of the seating did not have a good view of the track.

I usually sit in the first floor grandstand simulcast theater drinking the piss beer from the concession stands.

ZAFONIC

[Derek2U]

Z .... try this ... get a Table & just give the waitress $10 & say
bring us COLD beers ... can you? --- and she will .... hehe we
got all the tactics down ....

[Early]

Originally posted by hurrikane@HTR
shipper,

I don't bet chalk, nothing under 6-1...all the plays I have made on Gill/Shuman were way before the crying game started.
I've been off them for a few weeks now and they are not a winning play.
walk what you talk buddy!

Which Gil/Shuman horses at GP won at 6-1 and higher? I must have missed them all.