Americans Ready For Hard Times Now?

[The Judge]

It appears to me that Americans are a lot tougher then our elected officals give us credit for. It seems that most (at least on this board) are ready to face hard times rather then bailout the "monied class" but the Congress won't let that come to pass.

Why is that, here are my thoughts

1. Don't trust that things we get better for us as those that are being given the money are not trust worthy.
2. Its a betrayal of Capitalism. It was only Capitalism in good times.
3. If will be worst later if we keep borrowing and printing money now.
4. The money should have been given to us and let us spend it buying new cars etc.
5. The bailout babies will be back for more next time with friends.
6. Tax payer funds will be use to pay executivies unseemly amounts of
money.
7. Its a re-distrubtion of wealth from us to the richest people in the world.

Most of us have never really seen hard times but we seem to be ready to go that route as long as we all go that route and our treasury is not used as a private reserve for the rich.

[chickenhead]

this is just my opinion, but it is obvious to me that regardless of where exactly the popular will is, which is hard to gauge, that this is what the gov't will do in these times. They will try to re-inflate the way out. This isn't a big surprise.

So the argument that we should not socialize the losses is kind of moot, the government will seek to do that, regardless of administration. If you take that as a fact, you must in "the good times" do what is necessary to minimize the sort of behavior, and to some degree halt the formation of the institutions that lead to this sort of thing. Because they will not be allowed to fail, you are going to pay for their failures. It is dishonest to argue for the unfettered free market on the upside, if you know that the free market will not be in effect on the downside. And it won't be, that should be obvious. It won't ever be, in situations like this.

Part of that reregulation goes to lending guidelines, part of that goes to how firms write insurance contracts, part of that goes to leverage, part of that goes to just the sheer size that these institutions are allowed to gain. We'll always have crisis, but we can make sure we don't have this particular crisis again.

[Tom]

If spending our way out is possible, which the dems seem to think, then why not just give everyone a billion dollars and be done with it?

We have a serious crisis at hand and nincompoops working on it. Scary.
All they do is reward failure and crookedness. When do we get to hand someone?

It looks like the gas tank might be empty, but Obama wants to lite a match and have a look inside. :rolleyes:

Still pouring over the constitution to find where what these fools are doing is allowed, but no luck yet.

[chickenhead]

If spending our way out is possible, which the dems seem to think, then why not just give everyone a billion dollars and be done with it?

I'd say looking at the Dems in isolation is not an honest way to look at it. It's the same theories that have been in place forever, when Nixon said "We're all Keynsians now" I think he was more right than anyone thought. The same play book (borrow your way to growth) has been in effect for decades now, certainly Reagan followed that plan, Bush has done it twice now, once at the beginning and now again once at the end.

That is my point, there is no real differentation between how the parties treat recession/deflation. Whether you cut taxes or boost spending, either way it's not your money, it's borrowed money. So the argument is really only about how to feed some of that borrowed money into the economy. But it's all about borrowing. There is also not much difference to how they treat anything else. Clinton admin was behind a lot of the Wall St. dereg that helped this along.

[Tom]

UpChuck Schummer, Barney Frank, et al are the ones talking about the huge spending they want to do, and since dems control congress, I guess they are to blame this time. Repubs can't stop them.

But your point is well taken. As long as some here continue to whine a cry and blame Bush for everything, I will hang all blame on the current ones in power....the Dems. As we have heard over and over, it is on Their watch. :DFunny, all the crying about the cost of the war, not a tear about the new spending which is dwarfing Iraq.

[ddog]

Pulled this list off Bianco research , kind of interesting :

• Marshall Plan: Cost: $12.7 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $115.3 billion
• Louisiana Purchase: Cost: $15 million, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $217 billion
• Race to the Moon: Cost: $36.4 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $237 billion
• S&L Crisis: Cost: $153 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $256 billion
• Korean War: Cost: $54 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $454 billion
• The New Deal: Cost: $32 billion (Est), Inflation Adjusted Cost: $500 billion (Est)
• Invasion of Iraq: Cost: $551b, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $597 billion
• Vietnam War: Cost: $111 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $698 billion
• NASA: Cost: $416.7 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $851.2 billion

TOTAL: $3.92 trillion

We are at as far as I can tell between loans(?) and capital injections,etc around 7.4 TRILLION so far with more announced today and MORE coming for sure................

This deal today about backing "investors" so they will "invest" in more bad credit paper is classic gvt foolishness.

That's EXACTLY the original sin and now we are going to amp it up bigtime.

This things gonna BLOW chunks and it will take a lot more down than if we would have let the initial dose of medicine work.

As hankypanky says "we have humiliated this country".
Hanky said a couple of days ago he was going to hold on to half the 700B, now ,a couple of days later, naw, spend it all now.

What a guy. We need more like him.

Seems he got over that foolish feeling in a hurry.

Anyone that pays off anything they owe from now on is a dummy.
That's what they are telling you with this "backstopping".

[robert99]

Jonathan Freedland examines President Roosevelt's first 100 days in office and considers what Barack Obama might learn from them as he faces up to similar economic problems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00fkyms

[wonatthewire1]

I'd say looking at the Dems in isolation is not an honest way to look at it. It's the same theories that have been in place forever, when Nixon said "We're all Keynsians now" I think he was more right than anyone thought. The same play book (borrow your way to growth) has been in effect for decades now, certainly Reagan followed that plan, Bush has done it twice now, once at the beginning and now again once at the end.



I think we used to have a poster here - the Skate - who continually advocated this - bolded above. And we see how well it works with smoothing out the boom and bust cycles that the "Fed" was supposed to make much less common (not working out that way)...but the bailout of the wealthy will continue - and the govt will keep promising all those in the country the opportunity to catch the wave - if you're running with the right crowd or have a good lawyer. Most though, will never sniff it but will die thinking that they had a shot. That's the game that is keeping the two parties in power.

Maybe the Skate tried to catch the falling knife and bled to death - it happens a lot more often then most would imagine...

[HUSKER55]

iF OUR GOVERNMENT had any intentions of doing the right thing, they would take that bailout money and distribute it to us taxpayers. Then we could pay off our loans, cars and houses and things would balance out.

Then we could purchase better items and capitalism would work for us all.


Does anybody here think they will live long enough to see that?

Is there anybody here that thinks that will balance the books?


Why is that?

[JustRalph]

Jonathan Freedland examines President Roosevelt's first 100 days in office and considers what Barack Obama might learn from them as he faces up to similar economic problems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00fkyms


That's a joke right? Similar economic problems?

[rastajenk]

In the Rahm Emanuel "this crisis is an opportunity to do things you could not do before . . . You never want a serious crisis to go to waste" sense, I guess it could be similar.

[JustRalph]

In the Rahm Emanuel "this crisis is an opportunity to do things you could not do before . . . You never want a serious crisis to go to waste" sense, I guess it could be similar.

Excellent point............you have been paying attention :lol:

http://www.obamamites.com/imgs/barack-obama-2.jpg

[Tom]

Now the WE are part owners in many banks, let's cut interest rates on credit cards - cap them at 10%. That would be an economic stimulus in itself. Think of how much money every month THAT would free up.

[ddog]

In the Rahm Emanuel "this crisis is an opportunity to do things you could not do before . . . You never want a serious crisis to go to waste" sense, I guess it could be similar.

Funny, i don't recall him running the Treas or the Fed for the last several years?

Hmmm.... Who of late was screaming about the sky is falling if we don't get all the money NOW , with no strings attached?

Seems some may have been off the add drugs for the lat year or so. :lol:


Sorry, for the money we have shelled out we should be full owners and if you cut the rates you just cause hanky to have to put in more money on the other end.

Citi and the rest will be back for another slice within 6 months.

[bigmack]

Now the WE are part owners in many banks, let's cut interest rates on credit cards - cap them at 10%. That would be an economic stimulus in itself. Think of how much money every month THAT would free up.
Ringadingdongdandy. By gum, I think you've got something there T.

When the bailout rolls over to the auto industry after this next round I say we insist they pull the plug on free hot dogs & popcorn at local dealerships & have a Bellagio style free buffet each day. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/eatdrink026.gif