PDA

View Full Version : Hooray for Hollywood..It's Back,Baby!


BombsAway Bob
11-21-2008, 03:38 PM
THE IMPASSE has ENDED! Get those Holly PP's for tonite..
Out-of-state bettors, back into "The Pool...The Pool!":jump:

cj
11-21-2008, 03:44 PM
THE IMPASSE has ENDED! Get those Holly PP's for tonite..
Out-of-state bettors, back into "The Pool...The Pool!":jump:

Ummm...no thanks. Why would I support them now?

NoCal Boy
11-21-2008, 03:50 PM
Great news and the ripple effect for other signals will soon be here. Texas, Louisiana and now CA are open. No national deal. How much longer will it be before Florida horsemen say why should we be the fools to hold out when these other states are now open.

Couto of the TOC is also an exec with THG. His agreeing to a deal is a sign others are ready to come as well.


THE IMPASSE has ENDED! Get those Holly PP's for tonite..
Out-of-state bettors, back into "The Pool...The Pool!":jump:

cj
11-21-2008, 03:52 PM
Great news and the ripple effect for other signals will soon be here. Texas, Louisiana and now CA are open. No national deal. How much longer will it be before Florida horsemen say why should we be the fools to hold out when these other states are now open.

Couto of the TOC is also an exec with THG. His agreeing to a deal is a sign others are ready to come as well.

Why is this great news? Doesn't it depend on the details of the deal?

rrbauer
11-21-2008, 04:08 PM
This will be great news when PTC is carrying those tracks. I feel no urge to reward TOC/THG-affiliated horsemen. It's clear that they don't give a rat's ass about players. Hand me the Hawthorne PP's please......

price
11-21-2008, 04:11 PM
THE IMPASSE has ENDED! Get those Holly PP's for tonite..
Out-of-state bettors, back into "The Pool...The Pool!":jump:


Forgive and forget in 2 seconds? Typical horseplayer.

applebee
11-21-2008, 04:12 PM
Ummm...no thanks. Why would I support them now?
Exactly!

NoCal Boy
11-21-2008, 04:16 PM
It is great news. I wish Ian had PTC available here in CA, but the fact that all CA tracks for 2009 will now be available to all CA licensed ADW's inside and outside of CA, plus any other out of state ADW's that get the signals (hopefully PTC), is great news.

What do you think the domino effect will be now? I think now that Texas, Louisiana and CA are OPEN, that the horsemen in Florida, Arkansas and Kentucky might be willing to deal. Obviously the cut in CA is not the 1/3 of gross based on the comments from Couto. I expect Oaklawnd and the Florida tracks to sign up within weeks now. Imagine Ohio tracks will as well.

This will be great news when PTC is carrying those tracks. I feel no urge to reward TOC/THG-affiliated horsemen. It's clear that they don't give a rat's ass about players. Hand me the Hawthorne PP's please......

turfnsport
11-21-2008, 04:17 PM
THE IMPASSE has ENDED! Get those Holly PP's for tonite..
Out-of-state bettors, back into "The Pool...The Pool!":jump:

No thanks...A friendly reminder of PTC t-bred tracks running tonight:

Charles Town, Delta Downs, Mountaineer Park, Penn National, and Retama Park.

That's good enough for me.

Or I might celebrate the TOC-ADW agreement by going out and having a beer.

MickJ26
11-21-2008, 04:19 PM
THE IMPASSE has ENDED! Get those Holly PP's for tonite..
Out-of-state bettors, back into "The Pool...The Pool!":jump:


I've been playing Hollywood all along under the TVG banner.
I guess they like New York money.

BombsAway Bob
11-21-2008, 04:46 PM
No thanks...A friendly reminder of PTC t-bred tracks running tonight:

Charles Town, Delta Downs, Mountaineer Park, Penn National, and Retama Park.

That's good enough for me.

Or I might celebrate the TOC-ADW agreement by going out and having a beer.
Don't Forget Los Alamitos...$75k Guaranteed Early Pick-4's
Big Weekend there..Opportunities Abound... & it's PTC approved!

rrbauer
11-21-2008, 04:49 PM
It is great news. I wish Ian had PTC available here in CA, but the fact that all CA tracks for 2009 will now be available to all CA licensed ADW's inside and outside of CA, plus any other out of state ADW's that get the signals (hopefully PTC), is great news.

What do you think the domino effect will be now? I think now that Texas, Louisiana and CA are OPEN, that the horsemen in Florida, Arkansas and Kentucky might be willing to deal. Obviously the cut in CA is not the 1/3 of gross based on the comments from Couto. I expect Oaklawnd and the Florida tracks to sign up within weeks now. Imagine Ohio tracks will as well.

It's a one-year deal. What happened to the long-term contract that Couto was saying that TOC needed? The only domino's here are in your dreams.

Churchill won't allow TrackNet to approve PTC after PTC was vetted by the LAHBPA and took bets at Louisiana Downs; and, is Fair Grounds on TVG yet? Florida HBPA is adamant about not giving an inch over Calder and Tampa Bay comes up in a few weeks. The players get jacked around for months and we're supposed to be happy over business as usual?

turfnsport
11-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Don't Forget Los Alamitos...$75k Guaranteed Early Pick-4's
Big Weekend there..Opportunities Abound... & it's PTC approved!

I have not seen Los Al on the PTC menu recently.

turfnsport
11-21-2008, 07:57 PM
I have not seen Los Al on the PTC menu recently.

Ah, PTC DOES take Los Al...phone only.

maryforney
11-21-2008, 08:10 PM
THE IMPASSE has ENDED! Get those Holly PP's for tonite..
Out-of-state bettors, back into "The Pool...The Pool!":jump:

and just in time to get in on the $250,000+ carryover at HP.

bigmack
11-21-2008, 08:14 PM
b3TvTj0-f-8

Tom Barrister
11-21-2008, 09:00 PM
Los Alamitos is phone-only on Twinspires, as well.

As far as playing Hollywood goes, no thanks for me, either. At some point, we have to draw a line.

I understand that the horsemen want a larger share, and that nobody who's getting a share wants to give any of theirs up so that the horsemen can get what they want.

Be that as it may, it's something that should be worked out among the various groups, WITHOUT holding the customers hostage in the process. We the bettors are the ones who pay the bills, and we should be the top priority. We certainly shouldn't be caught in the crossfire bitching that's going on between the ADW's, horsemen's groups, track management, lawyers thereof, etc. These people have got to be the most short-sighted, narrow-minded, bone-headed group of idiots in the free world, bar none. You don't see this kind of lunacy with the harness or greyhound tracks or the jai-alai frontons. If they have problems, they should resolve them without involving the customers.

So no, I won't be playing Hollywood (or any other track wittholding their signal from the ADW's) in the near future. It's about time we voted with our feet and drove the point home to the tracks that WE are the ones who are important, and that we won't take abuse and then run back as soon as a bone is tossed our way.

LottaKash
11-21-2008, 11:07 PM
So no, I won't be playing Hollywood (or any other track wittholding their signal from the ADW's) in the near future. It's about time we voted with our feet and drove the point home to the tracks that WE are the ones who are important, and that we won't take abuse and then run back as soon as a bone is tossed our way.

HOORAY for you Tom Barrister......:jump: :jump: :jump: ...... I say Frig-em as well, whoever doesn't need me, I don't need them......Frig-em......

best.

David-LV
11-21-2008, 11:27 PM
Who Cares,

Small garbage fields, racing on phony garbage surfaces, brought to you by the born losers on TVG with their non winning suggestions day after day. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

Yes, Who Really Cares?

_______
David

NoCal Boy
11-22-2008, 01:39 AM
One can live their lives in te past or move forward with reality.

The obsession with PTC on this board is unfortunate. I respect and appreciate what Ian and PTC are trying to do, and Ian knows I do, but c'mon guys, PTC is a small player in the ADW universe. ADWs like Youbet and TVG handle in a few weeks what PTC likely handles in an entire quarter.

Get real. Watch the dominos fall in December. Tampa, Gulfstream and Oaklawn. All open access and approved by horsemen. Most likely Ohio as well.

It's a one-year deal. What happened to the long-term contract that Couto was saying that TOC needed? The only domino's here are in your dreams.

Churchill won't allow TrackNet to approve PTC after PTC was vetted by the LAHBPA and took bets at Louisiana Downs; and, is Fair Grounds on TVG yet? Florida HBPA is adamant about not giving an inch over Calder and Tampa Bay comes up in a few weeks. The players get jacked around for months and we're supposed to be happy over business as usual?

cj
11-22-2008, 01:46 AM
One can live their lives in te past or move forward with reality.

The obsession with PTC on this board is unfortunate. I respect and appreciate what Ian and PTC are trying to do, and Ian knows I do, but c'mon guys, PTC is a small player in the ADW universe. ADWs like Youbet and TVG handle in a few weeks what PTC likely handles in an entire quarter.

Get real. Watch the dominos fall in December. Tampa, Gulfstream and Oaklawn. All open access and approved by horsemen. Most likely Ohio as well.

First, you haven't exactly been Nostradamus in regards to ADWs. Pretty much the opposite, actually.

Second, the current model doesn't work. Handle is shrinking and fans are leaving. Creating a new model that helps horsemen but leaves less room to help fans is certainly not going to help.

For the record, California is not open access. They may give access to those licensed in the state, but they give licenses only to those they want to have access. That doesn't sound like open to me.

Indulto
11-22-2008, 02:06 AM
One can live their lives in te past or move forward with reality.

The obsession with PTC on this board is unfortunate. I respect and appreciate what Ian and PTC are trying to do, and Ian knows I do, but c'mon guys, PTC is a small player in the ADW universe. ADWs like Youbet and TVG handle in a few weeks what PTC likely handles in an entire quarter.

Get real. Watch the dominos fall in December. Tampa, Gulfstream and Oaklawn. All open access and approved by horsemen. Most likely Ohio as well.NCB,
You diminish yourself by attempting to diminish what PTC means to many of us who want to see the playing field levelled. IMO a lot of gloss came off your preceding well-written, informative posts with the unfortunate one above.

DeanT
11-22-2008, 02:11 AM
The obsession with PTC on this board is unfortunate.

It is a wish to have lower prices for all bettors who choose. Those who click through at 0.95 ROI and get a lower effective take know how important that is, and they want others to share that and raise handles in a sport that is shrinking.

People obsessed about buying a stock from their bedroom for $9 or fair cell phone bills not long ago. Racing will learn that it needs to take advantage of a similar model someday. Betting all tracks via Youbet might be convenient, but it will not stop the sport from shrinking.

Tom Barrister
11-22-2008, 02:16 AM
One can live their lives in te past or move forward with reality.

The obsession with PTC on this board is unfortunate. I respect and appreciate what Ian and PTC are trying to do, and Ian knows I do, but c'mon guys, PTC is a small player in the ADW universe. ADWs like Youbet and TVG handle in a few weeks what PTC likely handles in an entire quarter.



How much volume the other ADW's do has no bearing on the "obesession" with PTC. The rebates PTC offers add up in a hurry. It doesn't matter if the other ADWs do more business. They don't offer five percent. If PTC carried all tracks, I would do only as much business with TwinSpires and YouBet as I needed to do in order to watch the video feeds without charge. The rest would go through PTC.

Imriledup
11-22-2008, 03:21 AM
Ummm...no thanks. Why would I support them now?

Exactly. No bets for me either. its a garbage product with small pools (small relative to what So Cal is supposed to be).

RichieP
11-22-2008, 03:52 AM
This will be great news when PTC is carrying those tracks. I feel no urge to reward TOC/THG-affiliated horsemen. It's clear that they don't give a rat's ass about players. Hand me the Hawthorne PP's please......

I'm with you 100% :ThmbUp:

NoCal Boy
11-22-2008, 09:36 AM
The purpose of my post was to demonstrate how overly extended some people here are with this ADW situation. I have personally corresponded numerous times with Ian over the past several months on a wide range of matters. PTC is doing a nice job for the niche they provide. I wish they had a larger platform to leverage their business, but at the moment they do not. Ian knows very well my support of his endeavors so enough said there.

The reality is CA has 4 licensed ADWs, collectively doing over $1.1B in annual handle. They are the main players right now. It is a big deal when a major signal like Hollywood Park becomes available to the rest of the country outside of CA. It is a big deal to see the TOC, led by Drew Couto who also happens to be a senior person in THG, compromise on a one year deal that gives open access on all CA tracks to the 4 ADWs at economics less than what had been steadfastly demanded for by the THG across the country.

The reality is it is significant that we now have NYRA tracks, CA tracks, Louisiana tracks and Texas tracks in the fold for the major ADW's going forward. Put your business hat on, what are the odds that the horsemen will continue their unyielding ways on the 1/3 model at Tampa, Gulfstream and Oaklawn if ADW players have Santa Anita, Aqueduct and Fair Grounds available? Who is really losing? The ADWs? No, they have 3 major signals plus a host of others in different time zones to offer. The specific tracks and their horsemen will be the only ones to suffer a financial hit.

How long will the average rank and file horsemen in Ohio let this go on there? Reports in the recent past stated there was an ADW deal at 6% on the table for horsemen in Ohio but the horsemen could not sign due to the demands of the THG led by Bob Reeves of Ohio. Now the tracks used their leverage and race dates there were slashed. Common sense says it is time to cut a deal. If CA, Texas and Louisiana are willing to take less than the 1/3, why should these other horsemen remain steadfast at 1/3?

I am not a horse owner, trainer or race track owner. I am a horse player. Of course I would love to see takeouts reduced and incentives for players, but does anyone here actually think any track will reduce takeouts in this tough economic environment when every nickle counts? There might be a selective experiment on reducing the take on a Pick 4 or whatever, but those are one-time reductions and in the past seem to have done relatively little to handles.

The board members here are likely more disciplined and passionate about the industry developments than most. I think that is great. But please get real on the current state of affairs and what realistically can and will be done at this time.

I predict Oaklawn, Tampa and Gulfstream will open up. It is merely a prediction based on past business experiences in situations analagous to the present. Just ask yourselves what the horsemen in these states have to gain if horsemen in other states have agreed to a split far less than the 1/3 being demanded by the THG? Wouldn't it be far better to agree to something like in CA and then see how it develops? There are now multiple precedents in CA, Texas and Louisiana for signal deals. Who is next?

Every day is a day less in your life. You can spend it fighting for change and that is admirable. But I believe you have to be realistic and look to the context on when to fight and the situation at present. I like to play the ponies. Life is not fair and neither is the racing industry. Hopefully it gets better, but in the meantime I will play the tracks available to me and appreciate when more are hopefully made available.

NCB,
You diminish yourself by attempting to diminish what PTC means to many of us who want to see the playing field levelled. IMO a lot of gloss came off your preceding well-written, informative posts with the unfortunate one above.

Indulto
11-22-2008, 12:11 PM
… I am not a horse owner, trainer or race track owner. I am a horse player. Of course I would love to see takeouts reduced and incentives for players, but does anyone here actually think any track will reduce takeouts in this tough economic environment when every nickle counts? There might be a selective experiment on reducing the take on a Pick 4 or whatever, but those are one-time reductions and in the past seem to have done relatively little to handles.

The board members here are likely more disciplined and passionate about the industry developments than most. I think that is great. But please get real on the current state of affairs and what realistically can and will be done at this time.

… Every day is a day less in your life. You can spend it fighting for change and that is admirable. But I believe you have to be realistic and look to the context on when to fight and the situation at present. I like to play the ponies. Life is not fair and neither is the racing industry. Hopefully it gets better, but in the meantime I will play the tracks available to me and appreciate when more are hopefully made available.It won't get better by itself. If intelligent, influential individuals like you are unwilling to fight for a better game including lower takeout on fuller, sounder fields, with more money in the pools because more low-volume players are successful and increase their numbers, then there’s nothing more I can say other than that, in some ways, you are as much a part of the status quo -- and the problem -- as the horsemen, the tracks, and the dominant ADWs.

turfnsport
11-22-2008, 12:41 PM
It won't get better by itself. If intelligent, influential individuals like you are unwilling to fight for a better game including lower takeout on fuller, sounder fields, with more money in the pools because more low-volume players are successful and increase their numbers, then there’s nothing more I can say other than that, in some ways, you are as much a part of the status quo -- and the problem -- as the horsemen, the tracks, and the dominant ADWs.

:ThmbUp: Sharp post.

These "Cal" players all sound the same don't they?...LOL.

Zman179
11-23-2008, 08:38 AM
It won't get better by itself. If intelligent, influential individuals like you are unwilling to fight for a better game including lower takeout on fuller, sounder fields, with more money in the pools because more low-volume players are successful and increase their numbers, then there’s nothing more I can say other than that, in some ways, you are as much a part of the status quo -- and the problem -- as the horsemen, the tracks, and the dominant ADWs.

Fight for a better game? Why should I, or NoCalBoy for that matter, have to fight to give these ungrateful horsemen OUR BUSINESS?!? It's obvious that the horsemen don't care about what happens to the fans, nor the game, and only care about themselves.

I bet this game as a hobby and in no way shape or form do I need this game; I bet to pass some time. I fight for my union to make working conditions better for my fellow transit workers in New York. I fight to keep my neighborhood clean, liveable and against undesirables. I do not fight so that Asmussen or Mike Mitchell can buy the 2009 Mercedes SL.

Right now, my monthly handle is next to nothing...and it never used to be like that; I'd say that there are people on this board who bet more on two races than I do in a month. It's entirely up to the horsemen and racetracks to keep their fan base happy, or the fans will do what I have essentially done: walk away and do something else. I refuse to fight on my two days off, thank you very much.

Imriledup
11-23-2008, 10:42 AM
Fight for a better game? Why should I, or NoCalBoy for that matter, have to fight to give these ungrateful horsemen OUR BUSINESS?!? It's obvious that the horsemen don't care about what happens to the fans, nor the game, and only care about themselves.

I bet this game as a hobby and in no way shape or form do I need this game; I bet to pass some time. I fight for my union to make working conditions better for my fellow transit workers in New York. I fight to keep my neighborhood clean, liveable and against undesirables. I do not fight so that Asmussen or Mike Mitchell can buy the 2009 Mercedes SL.

Right now, my monthly handle is next to nothing...and it never used to be like that; I'd say that there are people on this board who bet more on two races than I do in a month. It's entirely up to the horsemen and racetracks to keep their fan base happy, or the fans will do what I have essentially done: walk away and do something else. I refuse to fight on my two days off, thank you very much.

Thank you Z man buck seventy nine, i love your post and totally agree. I feel the same way. You have to EARN my 'freaking' business.

Indulto
11-23-2008, 02:14 PM
Fight for a better game? Why should I, or NoCalBoy for that matter, have to fight to give these ungrateful horsemen OUR BUSINESS?!? It's obvious that the horsemen don't care about what happens to the fans, nor the game, and only care about themselves.

I bet this game as a hobby and in no way shape or form do I need this game; I bet to pass some time. I fight for my union to make working conditions better for my fellow transit workers in New York. I fight to keep my neighborhood clean, liveable and against undesirables. I do not fight so that Asmussen or Mike Mitchell can buy the 2009 Mercedes SL.

Right now, my monthly handle is next to nothing...and it never used to be like that; I'd say that there are people on this board who bet more on two races than I do in a month. It's entirely up to the horsemen and racetracks to keep their fan base happy, or the fans will do what I have essentially done: walk away and do something else. I refuse to fight on my two days off, thank you very much.Z9,
By reducing your handle and essentially walking away, you actually are fighting. Your weapon is your closed wallet and lack of enthusiasm. I too am a weekend warrior. I thought once I retired I would play more frequently, particularly in August, but the product is too unattractive and the playing field tilted away from the recreational player. I struggle to keep my bankroll intact concentrating on stakes races and their undercards on the biggest days, but I’m also betting less and less.

If each player on the board would reach out to a player they know off the board to convince them not only to support a series of selected boycotts, but also to turn around and recruit another player, this could happen, and quickly. Why should you and I have to walk away from a pastime we enjoy because some horsemen and track/ADW management are greedy, lacking in foresight, and restraining competition to the disadvantage of those who bet for entertainment?

maryforney
11-23-2008, 02:46 PM
Don't overlook the fact that the horsemen, the track, and TVG all lost a lot of money during the impasse. It's easy to say you're being "held hostage," but it's a lot more complicated than that. The horsemen had to take a stand sometime, and were willing to live with the short term consequences. The fact that everyone was hurting is what forced the final compromise.

DeanT
11-23-2008, 03:26 PM
Veteran trainer Vladimir Cerin said, "Drew Couto and the horsemen never agree on anything. On this one, we support him. We are all fighting for a piece of the shrinking pie."

Therein lies the problem regarding this stoppage, imo. Usually actions taken by groups are to grow the business of handles, the only revenue metric we have, not to fight to take more of a falling revenue number.

Indulto
11-23-2008, 04:48 PM
Don't overlook the fact that the horsemen, the track, and TVG all lost a lot of money during the impasse. It's easy to say you're being "held hostage," but it's a lot more complicated than that. The horsemen had to take a stand sometime, and were willing to live with the short term consequences. The fact that everyone was hurting is what forced the final compromise.
http://maryforney.blogspot.com/ (http://maryforney.blogspot.com/)… About Me

Mary Forney

This is my personal blog for sharing news and thoughts about California thoroughbred racing. I have worked in the California racing industry for 25 years, the last 4 for the Thoroughbred Owners of California. Opinions expressed on this blog are not those of my employer. ...MF,
Are the opinions you express in this forum also not those of your employer?

I hope you won't be limiting yourself in that regard while participating in discussions here because many of us would like to understand why the national ADW, Premier Turf Club, is not being allowed to offer California thoroughbred tracks to its customers outside of California as well as to California residents.

What role does the TOC play in that exclusion?

Tom
11-23-2008, 04:56 PM
Don't overlook the fact that the horsemen, the track, and TVG all lost a lot of money during the impasse. It's easy to say you're being "held hostage," but it's a lot more complicated than that. The horsemen had to take a stand sometime, and were willing to live with the short term consequences. The fact that everyone was hurting is what forced the final compromise.

I hope they bleed. Screw them.
No reason whatsoever to bet them now. It is time for US to send OUR message. Horsemen do not count. Only US from now on. Block me once, I will never bet you again. I don't have to. MY livelihood is not tied to Hollywood. Theirs is, so THEY should have had more brains. I applaud what happened in Ohio.....I hope it happens in California. And Florida. And Kentucky. I have always said we needed far less horses, trainers, jockeys, races.......this is GOOD stuff in Ohio.

Zman179
11-23-2008, 05:52 PM
Don't overlook the fact that the horsemen, the track, and TVG all lost a lot of money during the impasse. It's easy to say you're being "held hostage," but it's a lot more complicated than that. The horsemen had to take a stand sometime, and were willing to live with the short term consequences. The fact that everyone was hurting is what forced the final compromise.

You've got a lot of nerve saying some self-serving garbage such as you were all "hurting"; the horsemen brought all of this onto themselves and onto us.

Hurting is losing your job in this depression. Hurting is what 75,000 Citigroup employees will be feeling very soon. Hurting is trying to find a job in the New York Times help wanted section, which was thirty pages long four years ago...and only two pages long this Sunday. Hurting is not knowing how you're going to feed your family after your unemployment benefits run out. Hurting is being foreclosed upon and losing your home.

You've only confirmed that the horsemen are nothing more than a bunch of greedy, out of touch people who could care less about their fanbase.

Indulto
11-23-2008, 06:54 PM
You've got a lot of nerve saying some self-serving garbage such as you were all "hurting"; the horsemen brought all of this onto themselves and onto us.

Hurting is losing your job in this depression. Hurting is what 75,000 Citigroup employees will be feeling very soon. Hurting is trying to find a job in the New York Times help wanted section, which was thirty pages long four years ago...and only two pages long this Sunday. Hurting is not knowing how you're going to feed your family after your unemployment benefits run out. Hurting is being foreclosed upon and losing your home.

You've only confirmed that the horsemen are nothing more than a bunch of greedy, out of touch people who could care less about their fanbase.Thank you, Z9. :ThmbUp:

maryforney
11-23-2008, 11:29 PM
Not necessarily, but sometimes the opinions overlap. In my 25 year career in racing, I have worked for the breeders (CTBA), the trainers (HBPA), track management (Santa Anita), and the owners (TOC). I think I have a pretty universal perspective. One thing I know is that members of all of those groups are fans, as well. Like me, most of them started out as race fans and bettors, and still are.

maryforney
11-23-2008, 11:30 PM
So I guess "hurting" is not being blocked from gambling on Hollywood Park.

Charlie D
11-23-2008, 11:44 PM
Mary

Fans of a sport do not stop other fans of that sport from watching and betting


Those who want/need something from the fans do

Charlie D
11-24-2008, 12:24 AM
The ADW i use is owned by Xpressbet, i asked them why i couldn't bet on the some tracks that were available on Xpressbet

Here's the reply i got

We have a contract with each individual track, and each track decides
what states/countries can wager on them through our sites.
Unfortunately, the tracks that you see on XpressBet but not Racing US do
not permit us to put them on the Racing US site.



The people that place restrictions, blocks on fans are not fans imo

Indulto
11-24-2008, 01:01 AM
So I guess "hurting" is not being blocked from gambling on Hollywood Park.Are you suggesting that customers of RGS and Elite are "hurting?"

David-LV
11-24-2008, 01:23 AM
You've got a lot of nerve saying some self-serving garbage such as you were all "hurting"; the horsemen brought all of this onto themselves and onto us.

Hurting is losing your job in this depression. Hurting is what 75,000 Citigroup employees will be feeling very soon. Hurting is trying to find a job in the New York Times help wanted section, which was thirty pages long four years ago...and only two pages long this Sunday. Hurting is not knowing how you're going to feed your family after your unemployment benefits run out. Hurting is being foreclosed upon and losing your home.

You've only confirmed that the horsemen are nothing more than a bunch of greedy, out of touch people who could care less about their fanbase.

You my friend have hit the nail right on the head.

No more 5 horse fields racing on unproven surfaces for me also.

This group in Calif. could care less about the fans.

Good luck to them because they are going to need it.

________
David

Jeff P
11-24-2008, 04:02 AM
I hope you won't be limiting yourself in that regard while participating in discussions here because many of us would like to understand why the national ADW, Premier Turf Club, is not being allowed to offer California thoroughbred tracks to its customers outside of California as well as to California residents.

What role does the TOC play in that exclusion?

That's actually a very relevant question - one that deserves an honest answer.

Mary, care to comment?


Jeff Platt

President HANA


.

rrbauer
11-24-2008, 09:55 AM
That's actually a very relevant question - one that deserves an honest answer.

Mary, care to comment?


Jeff Platt

President HANA


.

Even more telling is the fact that PTC agreed to eliminate virtually all rebates on California races in order to become licensed in California and still TOC will not approve them. What is TOC afraid of? What does TOC know that we don't know?

Plain and simple, TOC's refusal to approve PTC is restraint of trade and interference with interstate commerce. I've given up on trying to get a straight answer from Couto....nothing but gobbledygook.

maryforney
11-24-2008, 01:15 PM
That's actually a very relevant question - one that deserves an honest answer.

Mary, care to comment?


Jeff Platt

President HANA


.

Honestly, guys, the ADW situation is more than a little over my head... incredibly complicated, and I have not been involved in any negotiations. My comments were strictly those of a long time fan who happens to work in racing. In all fairness to you all, I want to make it clear that I'm not authorized to comment on behalf of TOC.

I am, however, working hard to maintain a blog that serves up the best tidbits on the people and events connected with California racing, following the race meets, digging into a bit of the history of the sport. Check it out sometime. :) In the meantime, I'm getting an education reading your comments on the events that matter to the fans, and enjoying posting my thoughts now and again.

turfnsport
11-24-2008, 01:20 PM
Honestly, guys, the ADW situation is more than a little over my head...

That's okay, it seems to be over Couto's head too. :D

Indulto
11-24-2008, 01:52 PM
Don't overlook the fact that the horsemen, the track, and TVG all lost a lot of money during the impasse. It's easy to say you're being "held hostage," but it's a lot more complicated than that. The horsemen had to take a stand sometime, and were willing to live with the short term consequences. The fact that everyone was hurting is what forced the final compromise.Honestly, guys, the ADW situation is more than a little over my head... incredibly complicated, and I have not been involved in any negotiations. My comments were strictly those of a long time fan who happens to work in racing. In all fairness to you all, I want to make it clear that I'm not authorized to comment on behalf of TOC.

I am, however, working hard to maintain a blog that serves up the best tidbits on the people and events connected with California racing, following the race meets, digging into a bit of the history of the sport. Check it out sometime. :) In the meantime, I'm getting an education reading your comments on the events that matter to the fans, and enjoying posting my thoughts now and again.Frankly, MF, the top quote appears at odds with the one underneath it.

I wish you success with your blog, but IMO if you really want to have any influence here, you can't continue to insult our intelligence.

George Sands
11-24-2008, 02:04 PM
Frankly, MF, the top quote appears at odds with the one underneath it.

In what way?

Dave Schwartz
11-24-2008, 04:15 PM
In my 25 year career in racing, I have worked for the breeders (CTBA), the trainers (HBPA), track management (Santa Anita), and the owners (TOC).

Like me, most of them started out as race fans and bettors, and still are.


I separated these two quotes intentionally.

With all due respect, your ties to the first groups are somewhat binding while your tie to the bettors is not. Track owners, horse owners and trainers have about as much in common with bettors as a wrongly-convicted felon has with the judicial system: victimology.

Simply put, those groups may call themselves racing fans but it is a far cry from those who bet their hard-earned money on a day-to-day basis.


The real problem is that those top four groups you mentioned view themselves as the "driving forces of racing" while the bettors are viewed as an annoyance (at best).

So, while those groups fight over how the bettors' money should be cut to better serve their individual purposes, the bettors are ignored. We are merely a commodity.

Where is the concern over the player?

The answer is there is none. We have no advocates. While H.A.N.A. is attempting to fill that void, it could well be years before they have any real clout.

These other groups play hardball; they have the ability to take meaningful action NOW. We do not.

What suggestions woould you have for the bettors? What actions could they take that would improve their situation?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

maryforney
11-24-2008, 09:59 PM
Dave, you ask some thought provoking questions. I had the privilege of sitting in on a couple of meetings between track management and the So. Cal. Fans Committee, and like you they are very passionate about the game and have some very good input to offer. I think that kind of organized committee can make a big difference.

JustRalph
11-24-2008, 10:56 PM
why after reading Dave's post do I keep thinking of Jeff Mullin's ? :bang:

cj
11-26-2008, 03:39 PM
Horsemen want more purse money so we get to bet more exciting races like the 5 horse field that just ran for 43k in the 1st. Horsemen welfare at its finest.

David-LV
11-26-2008, 04:18 PM
True Or False ??

Hollywood equals Garbage Racing. :ThmbDown: :bang: :ThmbDown:

________
David

LottaKash
11-26-2008, 09:49 PM
True Or False ??

Hollywood equals Garbage Racing. :ThmbDown: :bang: :ThmbDown:

________
David

I think there used to be a better product.....But, then that is true of other venues, these days, as well.......

best,

David-LV
11-27-2008, 01:24 PM
True Or False ??

Hollywood Installing Synthetic Surface Equals Bigger Fields.:ThmbDown: :bang: :ThmbDown:

_________
David