Question for all the 'we need fewer tracks/meets' people

[HOY]

Here is what I often wonder when I am reading the countless too many tracks posts over and over again.

Where do tomorrows customers/bettors come from. Here is how I made it. My parents occasionally went to the dog track a few times a year when I was a child, and the kids often went along. I enjoyed it, kept going with them as I aged, eventually started mixing horses and dogs when I could go on my own, and eventually went to horses only. Now, had my parents simply locked themselves in their office and bet those dogs via the internet, how much would I as a young child been drawn in to watching puppies race? That track was later closed, but not until I got hooked. How many kids from that town are getting ‘in’ the same way I got in. none

So you see where I am coming from, my question. Now if we close all tracks in entire states, regions, etc., where do we get tomorrows customer from. All the exposure we get on cable a few times a year? How do you grow a business while at the same time removing it from existence for the majority of America. Horse racing needs to be something they hear about, think about, are curious about.

Maybe its just me, but I see a progression. You see horses racing for entertainment/mindless wagering. You gain interest, and start to wager more maybe with an angle or two. If you then get hooked, you find your preferred way to do it, which may be the internet. You can’t arrive at the end without a beginning, and I don’t see people becoming future whales without somehow being drawn-in. It used to be you were drawn in partially b/c horse racing was one of the few legal ways to gamble. Not the case anymore, so horse racing needs to compete. You can’t just get gamblers, b/c the takeout chases them away. You can’t get the action type people, b/c horse racing isn’t the quickest/easiest way to lose money, there are too many other options out there.

I look to my state for guidance, Nebraska. We have three meets, State Fair (34), Fonner (35), and Columbus (23). While you can make all the arguments I see too often about the endless 2500-5K claimers, it’s not those three meets I am interested in. It’s the in between events. The horses get a four day weekend in Omaha, 3 days in S Sioux City, and a new 1 day event in Hastings in 2009. It’s those later events that do horse racing good. Sure, they only have them so those places can meet their legal requirements of live racing to keep the simulcast going, but these usually pack the people in. These are not your horse players coming either. Omaha for example is 4 races on thurs-fri and 5 on sat-sun, with huge gaps between races to drag 4 races out for 3 hours. But you know who does come, 1st timers, parents, children, people who simply want to gamble, and a whole lot of people who are just looking for something to do. And what do these people do, they drink, eat, wager, and just have an all around good time, but most importantly to the industry, the get exposed to the racing/excitement. They don’t care that the racing isn’t on par with the Breeders. This years attendance for the 4 days (with terrible weather) was over 30K. In 2006 there was a single day with over 17K people. While 17K isn’t Churchill in early May, its damn good for bottom level horses at a 5/8 mile track with bleacher seating for maybe 3K at most. There are live bands, give-aways, etc

Maybe small ‘events’ like this have more to do with growing the sport than some like to think. Would the impact not be more positive for more county fair, town centennial, whatever the reason 2-3 day racing ‘festivals’. Now I don’t think that some changes in meet length, number of meets, etc should be ruled out, but that alone is not going to help, we need more racing fans. OK, so not every small town has a track, i get it, but there are still plenty that do, and probably plenty of towns that could find a way to get one if they could get some racing dates (and simulcasting ability). I am sure there are plenty more logistical problems, legal issues, etc, but this is not about why we can't, its about what can we do.

Just a thought on small tracks and small meets and what they bring to the table, since to most on here they are a waste of time, money, hay, and dirt.

[SMOO]

Does one area really need 3 tracks? How about one with bigger & better fields?

[Hajck Hillstrom]

My contention on this issue plays into the "less is more" philosophy, but in no way am I prescribing "none is better."

If a decent purse structure could be developed, I would advocate the boutique meeting approach. Short seasonal events, like the spring and fall meetings at Keeneland, would be the "bill of fair."

Create a buzz. Get the community excited about racing. Make racing a place once again to see and be seen. Fewer race dates, would hopefully make for fuller fields and improve the product.

The issue is, of course, the viability of land and facility space.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Here in the Cincinnati tristate area we have Turfway in the winter and River Downs in the summer.And I tell you.We have the set up at River Downs(as far as a midwest city goes in the summer).It's right next to the biggest concert venue in the area,and right next to that is the 3rd biggest pool in the world(memberships $137.00 a year).I get up and jog a few miles in the morning.Go eat breakfast at Louie's on Kellog Ave.Head down and park between the Downs and the pool.Go hit the pool for about an hour.Walk over to the Downs.Bet races.Hit happy hour at the Thirst N Howl Tiki Bar.Back to the pool.Reds games on the way home when they are in town.Concerts when they appeal to me.Rinse and repeat.On a good day I end up at a hotel,either lucky or in the bag or both:lol:

Nice summer day.With the occasional work in between!!!!

Anyway I know what you are saying.Live racing attraction,the lifestyle attraction,hell just having fun and being present.I enjoy the hell out of having 10 months of live racing within a 15 minute drive here in Cincinasty!!

I'll also enjoy being cooped up and betting races at home here this winter though too.

[DeanT]

The NFL embraced another thing, and that was television. They were one of the first sports to recognize this medium. There were some that wanted to ban televising games because they thought that people would not come to games if they could watch them on television and that would hurt the sport (sound familiar folks, who constantly comment on 'live racing'?). Luckily leadership ruled and the NFL took over television sports, like no sport ever has before. Now 2% of people who watch football attend games to do so. $5 billion dollar TV deals are the norm.

I think the 5 billion can come from new forms of betting and making it easier for people to play the game of racing. If we have regional meets with one track racing, the live racing experience is still there, but enhanced like in the UK (who does not like Keeneland, or the Little Brown Jug in harness racing?) The kicker though is that these meets would even have more eyes on them and pools would be increased and maybe we could get some buzz going.

I think we have to shrink to grow.

[proximity]

Anyway I know what you are saying.Live racing attraction,the lifestyle attraction,hell just having fun and being present..

great post cincyplayer!!

last thursday i went down to ct for the night card. simulcasting, live racing, and afterwards (instead of being ushered out) i was able to go over to the casino, have a drink (or two) and unwind by playing a couple slots. even saw some actual girls there who were (omg) younger than my grandma.

in general, the more stuff that is going on.... the better.

[CincyHorseplayer]

great post cincyplayer!!

last thursday i went down to ct for the night card. simulcasting, live racing, and afterwards (instead of being ushered out) i was able to go over to the casino, have a drink (or two) and unwind by playing a couple slots. even saw some actual girls there who were (omg) younger than my grandma.

in general, the more stuff that is going on.... the better.


If you don't get at least 2-3 pieces of strange over the course of a live meet,you're just a horse bettor,but you are not a horse "player"!!!:lol:

But seriously it is fun and the emotive atmosphere does inspire all kinds of desirable good times.I love to gander and bet on both horseflesh and human flesh.Just don't ever accuse me of being a horse-o-phile!!

[Valuist]

Too many tracks is a big problem. Meets cannibalizing other meet's field sizes. Since every racing jurisdiction operates completely independent of everyone else, its not surprising this is the case. As for the new fans, they need to be able to come home with some change in their pockets, and the idea of big field payoffs is a lot more attractive than the regular diet of 6 horse fields and sub $20 exactas. If half the tracks went away, I don't think most bettors would mind......and they'd likely appreciate the full fields in the tracks that still would operate.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Too many tracks is a big problem. Meets cannibalizing other meet's field sizes. Since every racing jurisdiction operates completely independent of everyone else, its not surprising this is the case. As for the new fans, they need to be able to come home with some change in their pockets, and the idea of big field payoffs is a lot more attractive than the regular diet of 6 horse fields and sub $20 exactas. If half the tracks went away, I don't think most bettors would mind......and they'd likely appreciate the full fields in the tracks that still would operate.

I can understand where you are coming from with the oversaturation of racing dates but all eliminating tracks does is eliminate the audience that can or could be the new blood of racing.If there weren't 10 months of live racing where I'm at I might not have ever been attracted to racing period.The initial love of racing comes from watching and being around "actual" racing.While us bettors have concern over the good of the game,what is good for the horsemen,the track,staple bettors,is not what attracts new players to the game.Catering absolutely to the diehard horseplayer is just as bad as catering to everyone else that are involved in the mechanics of the game.

And it might have to do with the attitude of winners too.In horseracing winners are supposed to be closed mouth,humble,never spill the beans,or upset the gods type of people.Folks see people headbanging and screaming on ESPN when they win a poker hand and they think "Hey these guys are for real".While we could debate that all day,the being on the lofty perch looking down at humanity view of the betting pool has as much to do with the damage of the game as anything.If you're a winner get your aZZ out in front and make it attractive.I have been a spare time winner that bets modestly,so I don't qualify.But the big ballers need to step up out of the shadows.Victory in the shadows is quiet death....of the game...

[DanG]

I’m not sure if this follows the thread theme, but what the heck…

I’ve gone to less then 30 live days the last two years and most of then were overseas.

I mention it for this reason; all my passion for racing was developed on track. From 5yo to my late 20’s I literally lived at the track. I’ll never forget meeting a guy in the Monmouth grandstand who gambled full time and he became a mentor for that summer.

Who mentors the aspiring player when so many of us (guilty as charged) play from home. Is some type of futuristic Orwellian scenario of six total tracks operating all without live attendance? Probably not; but if someone described a modern Gulfstream Thursday to me when I was a child I wouldn’t have believed them.

I wish there was a clever solution and I’m sure someone smarter then me will come up with one; but (I think) to the heart of the thread…with so many of us viewing these races on line with a stock traders isolation; who will influence the next generation of players?

[Track Collector]

Great post HOY!

I agree completely with the idea that many of these smaller meets have the potential to attract new patrons to the game. Before the Northampton Fair (MA) stopped racing after 2005, the labor day weekend would typically draw between 15-30K fans, who could enjoy grass-roots horseracing in a pleasant and non-threatening way. The races were one of the many other fair activities one could enjoy. Dads could bring the kids out for the 4H and other activities, while he enjoyed "the ponies". Dad would never take his family to the BIG tracks where racing was the only thing, and without the fairs he would never have been exposed to racing.

I enjoy the Nebraska racing circuit, and have been to all the current tracks other than HPO (Horseman's Park Omaha) and Hastings (which I believe only race 2-3 QH races this past year). I particularily enjoyed the 3-day meet at Atokad!

[proximity]

I’ve gone to less then 30 live days the last two years and most of then were overseas.


i am sorry to hear that and hopefully you will get to go more days this year.

[DanG]

i am sorry to hear that and hopefully you will get to go more days this year.
I don't think I was clear about attendance; that’s by choice btw. I haven’t been under any house arrest (that I’m aware of :D ).

Live racing can’t (as of yet) duplicate the multi-track set-up playing from home affords me. On top of that; I respect every penny spent on this game and the cost savings are significant.

In a sense; while I support this game through betting I’m part of the problem. I’m just hoping live attendance solutions come forward that are realistic and not based in dreams.

Like...reduced vig to play on track for example.

[rrbauer]

The regional and fair meets usually draw horses from a small geographical area and usually amount to a few days or weekends. These meets are off the radar IMO when we speak about reducing racing days, etc. It's the meets (or circuits) that run for months at a time and present a lousy product with their continuing parade of 5- and 6-horse fields that need some form of overhaul.

But getting back to those fair and regional meets that introduce people to the game: If they do such a great job of introducing people to the game, where did all of those people go? Or, didn't they like what they saw?

[LottaKash]

I don't think I was clear about attendance; that’s by choice btw. I haven’t been under any house arrest (that I’m aware of :D ).

Live racing can’t (as of yet) duplicate the multi-track set-up playing from home affords me. On top of that; I respect every penny spent on this game and the cost savings are significant.

In a sense; while I support this game through betting I’m part of the problem. I’m just hoping live attendance solutions come forward that are realistic and not based in dreams.

Like...reduced vig to play on track for example.


Well said DanG...I share your sentiments, almost to the tee...

What the future is, I am not certain, and I could only speculate on how it will be done or un-done in the next generation of racing.......

I live in the boonies now, but it wasn't always so.....For most of my years having lived in the northeast, I was well within a 120-mile radius of 6-different live racing venues, now it is "0", so for me and people in my shoes, Internet wagering and live-race watching is the only viable alternative to the live show, which I sorely miss sometimes....

Still, I am glad of the internet, and the ease of use and convenience that is brings to me.....I dunno.....

best,

[cj]

Worrying about live attendance just shows some of the failure of the game. The game, while a beautiful sport, is about gambling. Sometimes I think horse racing is worst than the NFL when it comes to admitting gambling is a big part of the sport.

[Robert Fischer]

in addition to the meets that cannibalize each other, the simulcast races from across the nation and world cannibalize each other.

[SMOO]

Worrying about live attendance just shows some of the failure of the game. The game, while a beautiful sport, is about gambling. Sometimes I think horse racing is worst than the NFL when it comes to admitting gambling is a big part of the sport.

:ThmbUp:

Being the only sport where it is legal to bet what you see on TV has been neglected bigtime. You have some media types who act as if betting is beneath them & the pretty horses are all people want to hear about. The few that do talk about it are usually shown as clowns. Bettors are what drives the industry, it's about time that is understood.

[alhattab]

I think having many venues is a plus, but the duration of the meets detracts from the overall experience because it essentially spreads out the attendance too thinly. Monmouth is a good example I think. The 100-day meet just drags on, and it's always there- all summer. So there's no sense of urgency for the one, two, three times a year types (like the office and family picnics) to concentrate their visits. And to me a place like Monmouth is a hell of a lot more fun when 15,000 are there rather than 9,000 on a Saturday. In the Mid-Atlantic having so many venues (Delaware, Philly, Monmouth in close proximity never mind NY or Md) isn't the problem, it's the overlapping dates and competition for horses that is the problem.

[proximity]

In a sense; while I support this game through betting I’m part of the problem. .

don't be too hard on yourself about this and rush right out to your local track with a guilty conscience dan. if you think about it, by posting your thoughts and opinions about the game here at p.a., you are sharing with aspiring players in a way that your own mentor never could. :)

[samyn on the green]

A good example of what "too many tracks with slot inflated purses " can do is Aqueduct race 7 19NOV (http://equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/AQU111908USA7.pdf). Here was a really nice starter allowance with 9 horses entered. Almost every horse was a hard knocking warrior. Instead of a great race the public got a 4 horse field because 5 of the horses scratched and will likely run in an easier spot at a slot track like Philly.

[DanG]

don't be too hard on yourself about this and rush right out to your local track with a guilty conscience dan. if you think about it, by posting your thoughts and opinions about the game here at p.a., you are sharing with aspiring players in a way that your own mentor never could. :)
Thanks for the kind words Prox; but are we in large part preaching to the choir here? How many participants / lurkers are newbie’s and / or on the fence about our game? My guess is this is a pretty hardcore group, but I could be wrong. I should say…I hope I’m wrong.

[proximity]

Thanks for the kind words Prox; but are we in large part preaching to the choir here? How many participants / lurkers are newbie’s and / or on the fence about our game? My guess is this is a pretty hardcore group, but I could be wrong. I should say…I hope I’m wrong.

of course to get here, new players would have to hear about paceadvantage somewhere. and i know word of mouth at the track is how i found out about this...