View Full Version : One More Race for Curlin?
maryforney
11-16-2008, 03:19 PM
Majority owner Jess Jackson, on announcing Curlin's retirement to stud in 2009, said if he could find an ideal opportunity, Curlin may make one more start this year. Although I certainly don't think Curlin has anything more to prove, it would be nice to have one more chance to see one of the greatest horses of all time race! What's the most likely race for Curlin's finale? Perhaps the Clark Handicap at Churchill Downs the Friday after Thanksgiving?
foregoforever
11-16-2008, 05:34 PM
His exact words, according to the DRF, were "if an appropriate venue and purse are offered, we would consider one more race in 2008 for Curlin.”
In other words, at a time when the economy is in the toilet, Magna's broke and most the major tracks are nearly so, horsemen's groups are unhappy about the ADW rates and fans are fed up with high takeouts ... if only someone will shovel some more money his way, he'll think about it.
Jackson knows the purses for the Clark, Cigar Mile and every other race scheduled in the next few months. If those venues and purses aren't sufficiently "appropriate" for him, fine, just retire the horse and let the Classic be everyone's final memory of him on the track.
Publicly seeking an "appearance fee" bonus is rather lacking in class, imo.
Burls
11-16-2008, 05:42 PM
At the same time, talk about going out with a whimper.
Curlin finishes out of the money for the first time in his life, while runnning on the Poly.
That's not a fitting end to a stellar career.
It would be nice to see him finish with a strong winning performance on the dirt.
Although his maximum performance seems to be around 110-112 Beyer this year.
So he's not absolutely unbeatable on the dirt.
Charlie D
11-16-2008, 06:07 PM
His exact words, according to the DRF, were "if an appropriate venue and purse are offered, we would consider one more race in 2008 for Curlin.”
In other words, at a time when the economy is in the toilet, Magna's broke and most the major tracks are nearly so, horsemen's groups are unhappy about the ADW rates and fans are fed up with high takeouts ... if only someone will shovel some more money his way, he'll think about it.
Jackson knows the purses for the Clark, Cigar Mile and every other race scheduled in the next few months. If those venues and purses aren't sufficiently "appropriate" for him, fine, just retire the horse and let the Classic be everyone's final memory of him on the track.
Publicly seeking an "appearance fee" bonus is rather lacking in class, imo.
Tend to agree, I thought Mr Jackson was one of the good guys
Gotta give a :ThmbDown: for this
sandpit
11-16-2008, 08:40 PM
His exact words, according to the DRF, were "if an appropriate venue and purse are offered, we would consider one more race in 2008 for Curlin.”
In other words, at a time when the economy is in the toilet, Magna's broke and most the major tracks are nearly so, horsemen's groups are unhappy about the ADW rates and fans are fed up with high takeouts ... if only someone will shovel some more money his way, he'll think about it.
Jackson knows the purses for the Clark, Cigar Mile and every other race scheduled in the next few months. If those venues and purses aren't sufficiently "appropriate" for him, fine, just retire the horse and let the Classic be everyone's final memory of him on the track.
Publicly seeking an "appearance fee" bonus is rather lacking in class, imo.
Agreed, Churchill already gave them an extra $150K when he won the Stephen Foster in a gallop this past summer. How happy would the horsemen there be if they jacked up the Clark's purse right after they cut it "because of the ADW situation and the economy" (paraphrasing the CDI release there)?
sandpit
11-16-2008, 08:48 PM
Majority owner Jess Jackson, on announcing Curlin's retirement to stud in 2009, said if he could find an ideal opportunity, Curlin may make one more start this year. Although I certainly don't think Curlin has anything more to prove, it would be nice to have one more chance to see one of the greatest horses of all time race! What's the most likely race for Curlin's finale? Perhaps the Clark Handicap at Churchill Downs the Friday after Thanksgiving?
Clark is obviously the most likely choice since he's stabled there. The Cigar Mile doesn't seem to be his forte. Either way, there is so little in the way of competition that he should win no matter what they choose, if anything. If he goes overseas to the Orient, he'll get dusted, IMO. For the most part, he has been expertly handled, and when he stepped out of his preferred realm in regards to surface, race schedule, etc., he got beat. When history looks back on him, I'd be willing to wager that he is considered to be a very good horse, but not one of the greats of all time.
joanied
11-17-2008, 06:11 PM
I have to agree with all the posts in this thread... and I have been getting beat up elsewhere because I don't consider Curlin one of our GREAT horses...he's a true Champion that had 2 incredible years of racing...gave everyone nothing but thrills and did some amazing things...he'll be one of the very best we've ever seen, but I cannot say he's GREAT in the very sense of the word.
As for Mr. Jackson...I am very surprised at his statement about the purse money...IF he races Curlin one last time...man, I didn't think he was a greedy guy, but maybe I was wrong about that...if he is the sportsman he wants everyone to think he is, then the purse would be secondary to letting the fans see him go out a winner and giving the horse a chance to go out a winner...if he is thinking of one more race...he should see what the competition would be rather than the purse money.
Shame :ThmbDown: on you, Mr. Jackson.
Stevie Belmont
11-18-2008, 10:29 AM
Everyone wants to see him go out a winner, but this is a business, and in all honesty racing him again is probably not worth it.
Anyone blaming Jackson, the guy everyone loved just a short time ago is off base. He brought this horse back as a 4 year old. He did not have to that. And he did it for the love of the game, and to make sure Curlin will have a place in the history books. Stand up guy. Racing needs more like him.
joanied
11-18-2008, 11:46 AM
stevie b....
Maybe not running Curlin one last time is the right thing to do...maybe not...we don't know what's going on with Curlin since the Classic... and none of us can speculate on their decision as to wether or not to run him again...to be on the safe side, retirement would be the best way to go.
I am not 'blaming' J Jackson for anything, really...I am just very surprised that he, of all people, would be concerned with the purse money Curlin would run for...if he ran for a 'small' purse, say $150,000, is that a reflection on the horse....noooooo way...so if Jackson is saying the only reason Curlin won't race again is the purse money, IMO, that's a bad reason...another 100 grand would just boost his earnings a little higher, no problem there, and not one race fan would think less of Curlin if he ran in a race with a less than huge purse...the only thing that would bother a race fan would be if they ran Curlin against a field of 'allowance' horses... it's the competition, not the purse.
Sooooooo.. Mr. Jackson needs to be a little more honest with his reason for not running the horse again...if he feels Curlin has done enough...fine...if he feels the horse has lost a step....fine...if he feels why temp fate and get the horse hurt....fine...but please, don't use purse money for a reason...and don't expect a track to offer extra money for him to run...that wouldn't be fair to the horsemen at that track.
If Jackson is a 'sporting' man, then the money should not have even been brought up...just run Curlin...or not.
:) :) :)
maryforney
11-18-2008, 05:53 PM
Larry Zap suggests a match race between Curlin and Zenyatta.
Check it out here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjILCmw8jvQ)
Charlie D
11-18-2008, 06:01 PM
SB
If Jackson gets what he wants then other connections will do same
Racing then becomes a i want this or i not playing game, just like THG is doing with signal
This makes racing a joke imo
cj's dad
11-18-2008, 06:05 PM
- I remember the last such thing between a filly and a colt - bad memories. Just say no to match races Please !!
Larry Zap suggests a match race between Curlin and Zenyatta.
Check it out here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjILCmw8jvQ)
Charlie D
11-18-2008, 06:11 PM
There's races out there for both parties to enter just like there was for a Curlin, Big Brown meet
Enter em and if one don't turn up, so what, they'll be those that do run to watch
joanied
11-18-2008, 09:00 PM
OH,NOOOOOOO:ThmbDown: I have already been witness to a colt/filly match race, and I wasn't in the grandstand...I was on the backstretch...too close to a horror show...nope...bad idea, bad, bad, bad:faint:
besides...Curlin has already been beaten by a filly...and the stretch run was as close to a damned match race as you can get....let's leave it at that.
sandpit
11-18-2008, 09:23 PM
besides...Curlin has already been beaten by a filly...and the stretch run was as close to a damned match race as you can get....let's leave it at that.
Lucky he didn't go to the Arc, or it would have been two fillies. Certainly no disgrace losing to either one, but it surely would have damaged his legacy.
What got me is Asmussen saying, and I'm paraphrasing, "Churchill cutting the pot on the Clark to $400K", was a big factor in not running.
This means he's saying a race that pays approximately a quarter-million dollars to the winner is worthless. Thankfully for the fans, Tracy Farmer and Nick Zito don't think the race is beneath Commentator.
maryforney
11-18-2008, 11:01 PM
My thoughts exactly, Joanie. It's just hard to reconcile his statement about wanting to do what's best for the sport and the fans... then making a statement like he did that was SO obviously all about the money.
joanied
11-19-2008, 09:47 AM
Lucky he didn't go to the Arc, or it would have been two fillies. Certainly no disgrace losing to either one, but it surely would have damaged his legacy.
What got me is Asmussen saying, and I'm paraphrasing, "Churchill cutting the pot on the Clark to $400K", was a big factor in not running.
This means he's saying a race that pays approximately a quarter-million dollars to the winner is worthless. Thankfully for the fans, Tracy Farmer and Nick Zito don't think the race is beneath Commentator.
maryforney -- "My thoughts exactly, Joanie. It's just hard to reconcile his statement about wanting to do what's best for the sport and the fans... then making a statement like he did that was SO obviously all about the money."
Sandpit & Mary...
I thought Curlin going to the 'Arc' was a crazy idea in the first place...and I wonder if they really planned on it, or if it was just a 'sporting gesture' they knew was not going to happen. At any rate, yes indeed, he would have gotten beat...I just thought all along it was just too much to ask of the colt.
Zito IS a sporting guy, and honest to the core...and if they run Commentator in the Clark...hope he wins by 5:ThmbUp: ...I think his being there is one reason Jackson won't run Curlin...he gets beat again, it's all over but the shoutin' !!
I almost could not beleive that Steve A actually said what he did...poor baby, $400,000 is just not enough money...please, give me a :faint: break!!
I'll stick with my opinion that J Jackson should be ashamed...and glad you agree Mary...and to make it worse, I suspect he fully expected that the purse would be upped just for him (oh, excuse :rolleyes: me...Curlin).
The Stephen Foster was a 'gift' for Curlin, plenty of money, and a pretty easy spot for him... and now they expect another 'gift'? I don't think so.
They need to just quit playing 'head games' and decide what they'll do...run or retire, and be done with it.
domino1891
11-20-2008, 08:58 AM
maryforney -- "My thoughts exactly, Joanie. It's just hard to reconcile his statement about wanting to do what's best for the sport and the fans... then making a statement like he did that was SO obviously all about the money."
Sandpit & Mary...
I thought Curlin going to the 'Arc' was a crazy idea in the first place...and I wonder if they really planned on it, or if it was just a 'sporting gesture' they knew was not going to happen. At any rate, yes indeed, he would have gotten beat...I just thought all along it was just too much to ask of the colt.
Zito IS a sporting guy, and honest to the core...and if they run Commentator in the Clark...hope he wins by 5:ThmbUp: ...I think his being there is one reason Jackson won't run Curlin...he gets beat again, it's all over but the shoutin' !!
I almost could not beleive that Steve A actually said what he did...poor baby, $400,000 is just not enough money...please, give me a :faint: break!!
I'll stick with my opinion that J Jackson should be ashamed...and glad you agree Mary...and to make it worse, I suspect he fully expected that the purse would be upped just for him (oh, excuse :rolleyes: me...Curlin).
The Stephen Foster was a 'gift' for Curlin, plenty of money, and a pretty easy spot for him... and now they expect another 'gift'? I don't think so.
They need to just quit playing 'head games' and decide what they'll do...run or retire, and be done with it.
PauLick says he's going to Lane's End?
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/curlin-to-lanes-end/
JackSon ought to send Farish a case of Mad Dog 20/20 for taking him.
joanied
11-20-2008, 12:04 PM
PauLick says he's going to Lane's End?
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/curlin-to-lanes-end/
JackSon ought to send Farish a case of Mad Dog 20/20 for taking him.
HUH:confused: .... what do you mean, "for taking him"?
Sounds like you think Farrish shouldn't stand Curlin??
Bruddah
11-20-2008, 01:01 PM
Mr Paulson, Steve Asmussen and Curlin have done more for American Thoroughbred Racing, than any other team in the Sport this year. Please rethink your position and grab the reins of reality. For some of you, they (Curlin's Team) just can't do enough, unless it fits your perception of how they should do it.
Curlin and his human team mates owe none of us a damn thing. So what if they don't want to run in a reduced purse Handicap. Is it the Curlin teams fault that Churchill and the THG have created a situation untenable to giving fans one more race. Wake up and smell the coffee.
As a Racing fan, my thanks and appreciation. I hope we have more unselfish owners and trainers in the future. Most of us fans applaud your excellent year. :ThmbUp:
MickJ26
11-20-2008, 02:17 PM
Mr Paulson, Steve Asmussen and Curlin have done more for American Thoroughbred Racing, than any other team in the Sport this year. Please rethink your position and grab the reins of reality. For some of you, they (Curlin's Team) just can't do enough, unless it fits your perception of how they should do it.
Curlin and his human team mates owe none of us a damn thing. So what if they don't want to run in a reduced purse Handicap. Is it the Curlin teams fault that Churchill and the THG have created a situation untenable to giving fans one more race. Wake up and smell the coffee.
As a Racing fan, my thanks and appreciation. I hope we have more unselfish owners and trainers in the future. Most of us fans applaud your excellent year. :ThmbUp:
You're absolutely right. I consider it a privilege to have been able to see Curlin race as a four year old. If they had retired Curlin after his three year old campaign, we would've gone down in history as just another very good horse. Now, Curlin will go down as an all time great. The Curlin team did a patriotic act by allowing what few racing fans there are of us left to watch a truly brilliant racehorse. I, for selfish reasons, would've loved to see Curlin run back in The Cigar Mile, to win the race named after the horse whose record he broke. I'm not going to castigate the Curlin Team for not running.
joanied
11-20-2008, 03:40 PM
Bruddah & MickJ26...
First, Bruddah...it's Mr. Jackson, not Mr. Paulson (who, by the way, was also a true sporting man).
I pretty much agree with what you both said...and thought I'd made it clear in all my posts in this thread...
I doubt anyone (at least here) thinks the Curlin connections owe us anything...and the complaints are not that Curlin won't race again in 2008...it's that Jackson & Asmussen made it pretty clear the reason is the purse money, which IMO, and others, seems rather greedy... a 'sporting' jesture would be to race Curlin again, regardless of the purse money...certainly you must agree with that!
I beleive everyone knows the true reason Curlin raced as a 4 yr old is because of all the court stuff going on with the owners...they couldn't retire him last year, they'd wouldn't be able to stand him, so may as well race him as a 4 yr old. It had nothing to do with being 'sporting'...although, IMO, Mr. Jackson would have run him this year even if the ownership court thing had been settled. I wouldn't call Mr. Jackson's racing Curlin this year 'patriotic'...it was pretty much by necessity because of the ownership thing.
But I do admire his sportsmanship in running Curlin in the Classic...they really had no clue as to how he'd run, turns out not too good, but that was something they did not have to do, especially after Big Brown was declared out & retired. So, my hat is off to the connections.
They just seemed to be 'playing' with us with his racing or not again this year...Asmussen had said something about the weather and the track being closed...which IMO ain't much of an excuse because the colt has been getting a rest anyway...then this purse money thing comes up, and again, IMO, they are being greedy, or unreasonable, or just wanting an 'out'...like I said, sporting shouldn't have anything to do with money.
I said before...I do feel lucky & honored to have been witness to one of the very best race horses ever...still can't call him great, but he'll rank up there with the very best for all time, and his 'legacy' will be nothing less than a shining example of what a true Champion is.
Wether he runs again or not is OK with me... would love to see him run again, but I would think his connections are doing what is best for him...they ruled out the Cigar Mile because it's in NY...but what a fitting way for Curlin to retire, winning the race named after the horse who's earnings record he beat, and I beleive the Clark feild is looking a tough one, and maybe they don't want to run Curlin against Commenator, who, if on his game, would give Curlin a good fight, especially with Zito entering 2 others.
Bottom line... My thanks to Mr. Jackson, not just for Curlin, but for his trying to get racing on the front page again, and I hope he comes up with another big horse to further this cause.
And thank you:ThmbUp: Curlin...for, well, just being Curlin:jump:
PaceAdvantage
11-20-2008, 07:12 PM
It is my personal opinion that the real reason Curlin remained in training this year is the legal troubles of his minority owners. Even today, this is still causing some trouble with their stud plans:
http://horseracing.sportsline.com/cbs/headlines/showarticle.aspx?articleId=32373
Legal woes may affect Curlin stud plan
LEXINGTON, Ky. - The ongoing legal wrangling by majority owner Jess Jackson to buy out his partners' 20 percent interest in Curlin might alienate farms who are interested in striking a stud deal for the colt, bloodstock experts say.
Not to take anything away from Jess Jackson. But it can't be denied that there were underlying reasons to keep Curlin in training other than to give back something to the fans...though it does make for some good PR.
joanied
11-20-2008, 08:37 PM
It is my personal opinion that the real reason Curlin remained in training this year is the legal troubles of his minority owners. Even today, this is still causing some trouble with their stud plans:
http://horseracing.sportsline.com/cbs/headlines/showarticle.aspx?articleId=32373
Not to take anything away from Jess Jackson. But it can't be denied that there were underlying reasons to keep Curlin in training other than to give back something to the fans...though it does make for some good PR.
That's what I said :faint: in my posts...keeping Curlin racing as a 4 yr old was because of the legal problems...they had to either race him or put him 'on ice' until all this crap in court is settled...they couldn't stand him...anywhere!!
:) :bang: :)
PaceAdvantage
11-20-2008, 09:00 PM
That's what I said :faint: in my posts...keeping Curlin racing as a 4 yr old was because of the legal problems...they had to either race him or put him 'on ice' until all this crap in court is settled...they couldn't stand him...anywhere!!
:) :bang: :)Yes you did say it, and probably better than me. My apologies!
Bruddah
11-21-2008, 01:13 AM
That's what I said :faint: in my posts...keeping Curlin racing as a 4 yr old was because of the legal problems...they had to either race him or put him 'on ice' until all this crap in court is settled...they couldn't stand him...anywhere!!
:) :bang: :)
it would still be applicable to Curlin continuing to race as a 5 year old. Instead, he will be going to the breeding shed. Sorry, I couldn't disagree with your ASSUMPTION more. It may have been a part in the decision process, but it wasn't the integral influence to deciding to race as a 4 year old.
Gorgeous George
11-21-2008, 03:30 AM
now that the very good Curlin is being retired, who will be the next superstar of American racing and how long do you think it will be before they arrive on the scene, 5 years, 10 years maybe 20?
domino1891
11-21-2008, 09:28 AM
I'd have sold him to Darley
but I'm not JJ
joanied
11-21-2008, 09:38 AM
Yes you did say it, and probably better than me. My apologies!
Now I feel stupid:blush: ...you don't have to apologize...it's not like we can't say the same thing...just wanted to point out I'd mentioned it.
It is a good point though... and hey...we agree on it:ThmbUp:
:) :) :)
Gorgeous George
11-21-2008, 09:41 AM
Now I feel stupid:blush: ...you don't have to apologize...it's not like we can't say the same thing...just wanted to point out I'd mentioned it.
It is a good point though... and hey...we agree on it:ThmbUp:
:) :) :)
get a room guys ;)
joanied
11-21-2008, 10:05 AM
get a room guys ;)
WHAT:confused:
That's about a dumb thing to say...even with the little wink:ThmbDown:
joanied
11-21-2008, 10:09 AM
now that the very good Curlin is being retired, who will be the next superstar of American racing and how long do you think it will be before they arrive on the scene, 5 years, 10 years maybe 20?
I don't know why you bother with American racing...do you ever have anything positive to say?
Seems you are here to rag on everything American and toss out insults.
Geeze!!!
Gorgeous George
11-21-2008, 10:18 AM
I don't know why you bother with American racing...do you ever have anything positive to say?
Seems you are here to rag on everything American and toss out insults.
Geeze!!!
joanied take a step back and slap yourself in the face...thats better, now how did you get me being negative with what i said? I was only asking who tomorrows superstar will be is there any 2 year olds this season that would be on that shortlist? If you dont like my posts then dont respond to them.
ps i love american racing.
joanied
11-21-2008, 11:46 AM
joanied take a step back and slap yourself in the face...thats better, now how did you get me being negative with what i said? I was only asking who tomorrows superstar will be is there any 2 year olds this season that would be on that shortlist? If you dont like my posts then dont respond to them.
ps i love american racing.
No, I don't beleive I'll do that, thank you...
it just seemed to me your asking that about future super stars has a ring of sarcasim to it... you know, like...in 5, 10, 20 years? if you read that post, what would you think...it sounds very sarcastic to me... and ya got to admit, you have certainly given us 'yanks' a lot of negative feedback on American racing...
happy to know you do love American racing, George...I feel so much better now:)
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