Farewell to the worst President ever......

[JustRalph]

Interesting Take on Bush Presidency

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/fail_to_the_chiefs_138879.htm

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11152008/photos/bush.jpg

[Jay Trotter]

Keep telling yourself that and eventually you might actually believe it! :faint:

[PaceAdvantage]

Either you didn't read it, or you are debating the accuracy of the historical record written about in the article. As far as I could tell, most if not all of the events cited in the article actually happened under the watch of past presidents. Some of them are pretty damning.

This whole "Bush is the worst ever" is insanity to anyone who actually appreciates history and/or pays attention to it...

It seems nowadays that the whole country is suffering from a major case of ADD.

[DanG]

This whole "Bush is the worst ever" is insanity to anyone who actually appreciates history and/or pays attention to it...

It seems nowadays that the whole country is suffering from a major case of ADD.
Well; your insult not withstanding to those who disagree…

Worst President in my life time and there is not even a close second.

[Greyfox]

This whole "Bush is the worst ever" is insanity to anyone who actually appreciates history and/or pays attention to it...

.


Without disagreeing or agreeing with you PA:
You have stated:

"This whole "Bush is the worst ever" is insanity to anyone who actually appreciates history "and/or pays attention to it..."

Well that's what you said.

I'm not a historian for sure. I suspect that you are not a historian either for sure.
But you've implied above that "anyone who actually appreciates history "and/or pays attention to it..."
should know he wasn't the worst. Knowing history, as you imply, who was stupider?

Having said that, have you got any "historical examples?"

[OTM Al]

Its the Post, so of course they are going to support Bush. Rupert wants it that way, so that's what we get. I just wish he could hire decent writers though. Only thing good about the Post is the sports section, but that isn't enough to get me to buy it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Are we going to start another comedy routine about the bias in print journalism? Did you comment on that Washington Post thread I started recently? I can't recall.

[PaceAdvantage]

Worst President in my life time and there is not even a close second.Wild stuff.

The sheer size and scope of the Vietnam disaster would qualify Kennedy/Johnson for a "worse than Bush." Hell, we can even throw Nixon in there, as he continued Vietnam AND got impeached for his other wrongdoings.

And let's not go into how the US economy was in a far worse place under other modern Presidents than it is right now (not saying it's not going to get worse...just taking a snapshot).

[PaceAdvantage]

Five years ago, the worst president ever foresaw something?

New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae

By STEPHEN LABATON
Published: September 11, 2003

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.I take it in bizarro world, Barney Frank must be the best congressman EVER (as opposed to Bush being worst president ever), because Barney, in response to the above Bush proposal, had this to say:''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

So there you have it. The worst President ever wanted to do something FIVE YEARS AGO to combat the current financial crisis we are experiencing, and the BEST CONGRESSMAN EVER (going by bizarro standards) said everything was honky dory.

And the above story was written by the New York Times, so you KNOW it must be true, because they are the BEST PAPER EVER!

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

Just one example of the worst president ever, and the best congressman ever.

[Marshall Bennett]

So I suppose if Obama hangs around for 8 years and the economy turns around (which of course it will , it always does ) he'll be considered one of the best ?
Perhaps Bush's place in the history time line was just dumb luck . This economy could have been saved by a democratic president ? The events surrounding terror in the middle east could have been derailed by a democratic president ?
FDR could have easily been blasted for his role during WWII , after all we lost 300,000 men , not a few thousand . I beleive those that are quick to judge weren't as naive back then ( could have said dumb or stupid but didn't ) , but then again , bad guys cause bad times . What could be worse than a modern day republican president from Texas ? :cool:

[George Sands]

Hell, we can even throw Nixon in there, as he continued Vietnam AND got impeached for his other wrongdoings.

Nixon wasn't impeached.

[lamboguy]

anyone who can post on this board and honestly think that the problems from this administration came from prior ones are brave souls. even if you are right and the problems came before, the fact is that this guy never tried to do anything about them. he has spent 8 years chasing bin laden, a probable 1-9 shot to be dead all this time, now he takes on the most important bill in his 8 years of power, the internet gambling bill. he will get this bill through, you can bet on it. the bill will decapitate the horse racing industry. we will have to find a new name for the pace-advantage board. maybe we will call it the political advantage of GEORGE W BUSH board. yes that will work!

[riskman]

It seems nowadays that the whole country is suffering from a major case of ADD.

If the above statement is accurate(and it is not) then the disorder originated in the Oval Office sometime in 2003. Most of the nation has recovered --at least 70% according to the latest polls.

What else will this administration do in its final days? Well, there’s always Iran…

[JustRalph]

Wow! I knew this article would stir the bucket a little......... But I think it has an interesting perspective......

Good stuff....... ............ PA is right on. If you have any appreciation for history.......... you might find this talk about Bush being the worst ever is a little over done............

Especially those who scream about those killed in Iraq ............. it's baby shit compared to Nam.

Don't worry, the Brain Trust is coming.......... :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

Nixon wasn't impeached.You see, like most others, I forget my history at times as well.

No he wasn't impeached, but the articles of impeachment were written up and he most certainly would have been impeached had he not resigned before a vote was taken.

Thanks for catching my mistake.

[PaceAdvantage]

If the above statement is accurate(and it is not) then the disorder originated in the Oval Office sometime in 2003.I would contend that the Bush administration suffered not from ADD, but from an intense singular focus on keeping the country safe from another 9/11 style attack...something they have been successful at to date.

[Steve 'StatMan']

The thread title is "Farewell to the Worst President Ever", I here I was, wondering if Jimmy Carter had died. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

The thread title is "Farewell to the Worst President Ever", I here I was, wondering if Jimmy Carter had died. :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[dav4463]

Good article. I like Bush. Irrational hatred fueled by a venomous media. Bush lied people died and all that crap. Bush always did what he thought was right and acted in the best interest of his country despite all the haters attacking him every second of every day. I still say Bush could save a baby from getting run over by a train, or cure cancer, and some people would still find fault with him. Why? Irrational hatred.

Watch out Obama....right now it's WE LOVE HIM, WE LOVE HIM, YOU ARE OUR SAVIOR!!!!....you better hope "they" keep loving you because if "they" turn on you.....you had better be a strong man because "they" are relentless in their attacks.

[hcap]

NYPOST vs The American Conservative

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/nov/17/00006//


November 17, 2008 Issue
Copyright © 2008 The American Conservative

Bush’s Broken Record

When future historians argue over the legacy of George W. Bush, the question they confront may be just which bracket of presidential failure he belongs in. Nixon and Johnson? Or Herbert Hoover? President Bush earned his place in the pantheon of disgrace even before he presided over an epochal financial crisis. Absent the atrocities of 9/11, he might have been a mediocrity: a big spender too prone to trust his shallow instincts but able to clear the competence threshold and lacking the sophistication to be truly dangerous.

[DanG]

I don’t know where to start to be honest and I certainly don’t have enough time to chronicle the 8 years of incompetence.

I remember sometime in 2004 turning to brother and saying…”we missed an opportunity not detailing this presidency on a daily basis.” This best seller literally wrote itself.

• Forget the seemingly endless / embarrassing use of language (Anyone up for a “Crusade” :faint: )
• Growing government at a record pace.
• Forgetting how to veto spending bills.
• Growing government at a record pace.
• Virtual insider trading for the inner circle be it no-bid contracts / or a “pandemic” we will NEVER find.
• Growing government at a record pace.
• BOTCHING a war (I don't re-write history, I remember the first 24 months vividly) / then refusing to declare it a war because it would require the checks and balances we are designed for.
• Growing government at a record pace.
• The handling and lack of urgency of Katrina as if it was written by the Marx Brothers running Fredonia.
• Growing government at a record pace. :)
• The preferential treatment of Saudi Arabia that shouldn’t have to be spelled out to anyone…

Etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…et c…etc…etc…etc…etc

As I said; you will have to wait until the book comes out; there just isn’t enough time to cover this train wreck. :eek:

Forget all the individual issues that people twist into their own political reality. (As I do) Here’s my reality…Upon his re-election it was the first time in my life I was embarrassed to be American. :blush: That is MY definition of the worst president in my lifetime. (And no…I wouldn’t vote for Kerry if he was unopposed btw)

Another damning fact is even those who would defend virtually any Republican with their last breath; often defend this man / administration by attacking someone else. 99.9% of the time that is a tell tale sign of defending the indefensible.

Worst in history? I’ll leave that up to the historians; rumor has it Warren Harding was a lousy card player and a real beauty! :D

[jonnielu]

I don’t know where to start to be honest and I certainly don’t have enough time to chronicle the 8 years of incompetence.

I remember sometime in 2004 turning to brother and saying…”we missed an opportunity not detailing this presidency on a daily basis.” This best seller literally wrote itself.

• Forget the seemingly endless / embarrassing use of language (Anyone up for a “Crusade” :faint: )
• Growing government at a record pace.
• Forgetting how to veto spending bills.
• Growing government at a record pace.
• Virtual insider trading for the inner circle be it no-bid contracts / or a “pandemic” we will NEVER find.
• Growing government at a record pace.
• BOTCHING a war (I don't re-write history, I remember the first 24 months vividly) / then refusing to declare it a war because it would require the checks and balances we are designed for.
• Growing government at a record pace.
• The handling and lack of urgency of Katrina as if it was written by the Marx Brothers running Fredonia.
• Growing government at a record pace. :)
• The preferential treatment of Saudi Arabia that shouldn’t have to be spelled out to anyone…

Etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…etc…et c…etc…etc…etc…etc

As I said; you will have to wait until the book comes out; there just isn’t enough time to cover this train wreck. :eek:

Forget all the individual issues that people twist into their own political reality. (As I do) Here’s my reality…Upon his re-election it was the first time in my life I was embarrassed to be American. :blush: That is MY definition of the worst president in my lifetime. (And no…I wouldn’t vote for Kerry if he was unopposed btw)

Another damning fact is even those who would defend virtually any Republican with their last breath; often defend this man / administration by attacking someone else. 99.9% of the time that is a tell tale sign of defending the indefensible.

Worst in history? I’ll leave that up to the historians; rumor has it Warren Harding was a lousy card player and a real beauty! :D

It's ridiculous, since 1913 the various Presidents have done wonderful work for their owners.

jdl

[Jay Trotter]

Bush surely is the "worst" President in my lifetime.............hands down, no question about it!

How this guy could have been elected to lead his party is beyond me -- even Cheney or Rumsfeld would have been better selections than Bush. They may have been misguided but at least they were intelligent enough to accomplish their goals.

Bush is just a good ol' boy that people believed might be the kind of guy they would like to have a beer with. Palin seems to be of the same ilk.

Bush -- Mission Accomplished -- kind of sums up his reign!

[Snag]

Once the spot light of the worst media in history has dimmed and the light of history has a chance to shine, the verdic with be different.

[DanG]

the light of history has a chance to shine, the verdic with be different.
You could very well be right Snag.

History has proven it is very difficult to write the impact of an administration this soon. I know how I would bet; but we all see things through our own filter.

[wonatthewire1]

Bush surely is the "worst" President in my lifetime.............hands down, no question about it!




Franklin Pierce should be feeling better from this point onward

[alydar]

Well; your insult not withstanding to those who disagree…

Worst President in my life time and there is not even a close second.

I second that!!!

[nijinski]

anyone who can post on this board and honestly think that the problems from this administration came from prior ones are brave souls. even if you are right and the problems came before, the fact is that this guy never tried to do anything about them. he has spent 8 years chasing bin laden, a probable 1-9 shot to be dead all this time, now he takes on the most important bill in his 8 years of power, the internet gambling bill. he will get this bill through, you can bet on it. the bill will decapitate the horse racing industry. we will have to find a new name for the pace-advantage board. maybe we will call it the political advantage of GEORGE W BUSH board. yes that will work!

The Mid East Extremism didn't just evolve at the start of Bushs' term. Nor did the lack of securing our borders. Lets pray we never forget.
He did promise to protect us from another attack, and that promise was kept.

[Buckeye]

can't be the worst ever since we are still here. The Twin Towers (unfortuneately) are not. American flags flying on SUVs are not. Obama is up against it. All Bush did was try and keep it going (the party). He failed to do so but the responsibility does not lie with him. If the American People want to throw parties and they do, so be it. Just begin to get realistic and stop blaming Bush a moron. See, I agree he is/was a moron in a sense, but the blame for our predicament rests with us not him. We are the ones who decided to ignore financial realities and borrow money we got caught not being able to repay. Just speaking for you here. :)

and if you Don't beleive me just refer to Pittsburgh Phil. Wow these drugs are serious. Andy Reid is a bad coach. He needs to go. And just remember, I'm 10 and 4 :) against the spread in the NFL.

without software or ajustable rate mortgages. We can only affect our future one day at a time and hopefully times are serious enough now to wake us up.

[dav4463]

The Mid East Extremism didn't just evolve at the start of Bushs' term. Nor did the lack of securing our borders. Lets pray we never forget.
He did promise to protect us from another attack, and that promise was kept.



There have been no attacks on American soil since 9/11. A major airline crash in England was avoided thanks in large part to Bush policies.

Now, under a new administration, we won't be able to listen in on terrorist activities for fear of hurting some terrorist's feelings.

I just hope we don't have to face another 9/11 or something worse, but I felt much safer with Bush than I will with Obama. That's for sure.

Bush doesn't want to "appease" terrorists. Obama does. He seems to think that they are rational people if we use the right approach. It won't work with people who will chop off your head on a whim.

[JustRalph]

Don't forget the shopping mall bomber who was captured due to the electronic eavesdropping .............

[pandy]

Either you didn't read it, or you are debating the accuracy of the historical record written about in the article. As far as I could tell, most if not all of the events cited in the article actually happened under the watch of past presidents. Some of them are pretty damning.

This whole "Bush is the worst ever" is insanity to anyone who actually appreciates history and/or pays attention to it...

It seems nowadays that the whole country is suffering from a major case of ADD.

I agree. If you think the war was a mistake, that I understand. But otherwise Bush kept us safe, fought aids in Africa, lowered Mercury emissions, lowered taxes, and that's basically his presidency in a nutshell. It could've been better, I feel that any President who either raises spending or doesn't lower gov't spending is making a big mistake, but they all fail on that issue.

[lamboguy]

you guys certainly can find the bright spots in this administration. the job of the federal govenment is to protect our borders and protect us from fraud.

we know that in the last 8 years the federal government under the boss president george bush, has done a poor job with the fraud. we let banks and financial institutions run right thru us like o.j. simpson ran thru airports. oil company's and speculator's ran the oil prices up 4 fold at the high point. we got wrecked under the bail out bills and aig employees had parties.

as far as protecting our borders, there are more illegal imigrants in our country now than before 2000. in the last 200 years there has been only one attack on our soil, that came on 9-11-2001. i don't know if any one could have stopped that attack. i suspect that no matter who would have been president in the last 8 years, the president would have taken the recomendations of our military, just like bush did, and follow the same steps he did.

the last question you have to ask yourself is this, do you feel safer now than in the year 1999? my answer is no. i wonder how many people out there have the same answer.

[Marshall Bennett]

I feel safer now than I will 3 months from now , thats for sure .

[Show Me the Wire]

lamboguy:

Where is the protection of fraud clause in the Constitution? I am more familiar with "Caveat emperor" theory of our fore fathers.

[lamboguy]

hey marshall, i am glad you can predict the future. you have some talent there!

[Show Me the Wire]

marshall is just listening to what that Biden guy said about a crisis being manufactured to test Obama.

[lamboguy]

oh i see!

[lamboguy]

up until 3 years ago the banking system ran under a 10-1 ratio. during this administration the fractional banking system now requires only a 2 1/2 % ratio of loans to deposits. so when you have a lender that has 5% of their assets tied up in bad loans the institution is now insolvent. if you think that is bad, under the bailout package they are going to lower the 2 1/2 down to ZERO.

[Marshall Bennett]

marshall is just listening to what that Biden guy said about a crisis being manufactured to test Obama.
The crisis was manufactured by voters putting Obama in the white house . :D
... and no lambo , I can't predict the future , thank God , chances are I'd cause a panic nationwide . :D

[delayjf]

up until 3 years ago the banking system ran under a 10-1 ratio. during this administration the fractional banking system now requires only a 2 1/2 % ratio of loans to deposits. so when you have a lender that has 5% of their assets tied up in bad loans the institution is now insolvent. if you think that is bad, under the bailout package they are going to lower the 2 1/2 down to ZERO.

Did President Bush pass the legislation or give an Executive order allowing the above?

[lamboguy]

i think it was a change in federal reserve policy. i don't think it needs a legislative approval.

[LottaKash]

A Gangster, surrounded by Gangsters, viewing us with total disregard and utter contempt.......:eek:

best,

[Lefty]

dang, your seem obsessed with the growing of govt under Bush. Just wait till Obama gets hold of it. If he raises taxes as promised, the deficit will double maybe triple. And will our pravda press call him to acct as they did Bush every day? Nope, you will find under Obama the press will think deficits are "cool"
You've been safe every day since 9-11. Thanks to Bush Pokicies. After 9-11 this country could have eaily slid into a Depression. It didn't thanks to Bush tax cuts. Bush has been attacked constantly by dims and the press and never whined about it. Much man and a great Pres.
The banking debacle has been caused mostly by dims and not Bush. He tried many times to reform Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac but couldn't get the reforms through congress. Idots like Barney Frank and chris Dodd and other dims said those entities were in no trouble and Bush just wanted to keep poor people from buying homes. If you guys haven't livedf through much history maybe you better read some. I think you're just listening to the mainstream press who has demonized Bush every day of his admin just so they could get a dim elected. And it worked, thanks to a dumbed down electorate.
Thank You President Bush, for all you have done and all you tried to do.

[lamboguy]

obama is nothing but a continuation play of bush. he talks and walks a different game, but really the same thing. remember this, republican's love to blame the democrats for all the problems. they both are to blame, power in the wrong hands.

[Buckeye]

There have been no attacks on American soil since 9/11. A major airline crash in England was avoided thanks in large part to Bush policies.

Now, under a new administration, we won't be able to listen in on terrorist activities for fear of hurting some terrorist's feelings.

I just hope we don't have to face another 9/11 or something worse, but I felt much safer with Bush than I will with Obama. That's for sure.

Bush doesn't want to "appease" terrorists. Obama does. He seems to think that they are rational people if we use the right approach. It won't work with people who will chop off your head on a whim.

That's right and that's why he isn't "our worst President ever."

Bush wasn't nor were those he represented the worst ever seen in their respective capacities, although they borrowed too much. Nobody hates to party but it's over now. In my opinion Bush didn't have the guts or ability or intelligence to STOP the Party, that's all.

[hcap]

lamboguy:

Where is the protection of fraud clause in the Constitution? I am more familiar with "Caveat emperor" theory of our fore fathers.It's "Caveat emptor".
It means 'let the buyer beware'.

But I think I like your take better.....

"Beware the emperor" :cool:

[Show Me the Wire]

Thanks for coming to my rescue and correcting my typo. You can'y rely on that darn spell checker.

:lol: about my possible Freudian slip.

[ddog]

dang, your seem obsessed with the growing of govt under Bush. Just wait till Obama gets hold of it. If he raises taxes as promised, the deficit will double maybe triple. And will our pravda press call him to acct as they did Bush every day? Nope, you will find under Obama the press will think deficits are "cool"
You've been safe every day since 9-11. Thanks to Bush Pokicies. After 9-11 this country could have eaily slid into a Depression. It didn't thanks to Bush tax cuts. Bush has been attacked constantly by dims and the press and never whined about it. Much man and a great Pres.
The banking debacle has been caused mostly by dims and not Bush. He tried many times to reform Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac but couldn't get the reforms through congress. Idots like Barney Frank and chris Dodd and other dims said those entities were in no trouble and Bush just wanted to keep poor people from buying homes. If you guys haven't livedf through much history maybe you better read some. I think you're just listening to the mainstream press who has demonized Bush every day of his admin just so they could get a dim elected. And it worked, thanks to a dumbed down electorate.
Thank You President Bush, for all you have done and all you tried to do.


post of the year!

:lol:

and THAT's saying sump'en.

[Stillriledup]

So Bush was so bad that he's made a great president like Obama look bad too, you know, with the "mess" he inherited.

OR, Obama is just bad on his own, and he's sort of making us *gulp* actually miss Bush?

Is that back to back horrendous presidents, or is Bush to blame for Obama's failures?

(sorry for the bump, but its fun sometimes to see what people were saying back in the day. :D )

[Tom]

I won't mention any names, but some dimwits support Obama while he is continuing many of Bush's policies, and even enhancing some of them.
The action of the worst president ever are defended when this one does them.

You can't fix stupid! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mostpost]

Interesting Take on Bush Presidency

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/fail_to_the_chiefs_138879.htm

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11152008/photos/bush.jpg
Somehow I missed this thread the first time around. It is easy, and intellectually dishonest to judge any Presidency based on one or two things that went wrong during that Presidency.

You can judge FDR on the Recession of 37-38 but you must also judge him on the New Deal and the fact that his policies got us out of the Great Depression.
You can be critical of him for not entering the war sooner, but you must acknowledge that he was the leader of the country most responsible for ending that war victoriously.

You can say Truman was very unpopular at the end of his term and that he got us into an unnecessary war in Korea. You had better also mention The Marshall Plan, The Berlin Airlift, our early support of the fledgling nation of Israel, desegregation of the military and a ban on discrimination in civil service hiring. All of which were the result of policies begun under Truman.

You must also mention that the intervention in Korea surely prevented South Korea from being a communist nation today.

Perhaps, as the author claims JFK involved us unnecessarily in Viet Nam. But the escalation took place after his death. On the positive side, Kennedy gave us a man on the moon, the Peace Corp, the first Nuclear Test Ban treaty, and the beginnings of school desegregation.

Lyndon Johnson involved us to much too great a degree in Vietnam.
But here is a list of major legislation passed during his presidency.
Clean Air Act
Two Civil Rights Acts
Gun Control Act.
Voting Rights Act
Prohibition of Age discrimination
Freedom of Information Act
Fair Housing Act
Equal Employement Opportunity Act
Medicare Act.

We come now to George W. Bush
It was on his watch that 9/11 occurred and he was asleep on that watch.
It was on his watch that Katrina happened and on his watch that the response to that national disaster was too late, too little and poorly coordinated when it did occur.

It was during the Presidency of George W. Bush that Osama bin Laden was allowed to escape at Tora Bora. Under Bush we attacked a sovereign country that never attacked us. Under Bush we did so without providing our troops adequate equipment. Under Bush we failed to anticipate the Iraqi insurgency and failed to respond to it. Under Bush we lied, falsified information and cooked the books.

Under Bush we stacked regulatory agencies with appointees favorable to the industries they were supposed to be regulating. Bush took a budgetary surplus and gave it mostly to his cronies. Bush increase the national debt to its highest point in history. He signed a Medicare drug plan that helped drug companies more than it helped the seniors it was supposed to help. A lot more.

And finally, there was the Great Recession.

Now, in fairness, I am required to point out the positives in the George W. Bush Presidency.



Sorry, I can't think of any. :( :(

[JustRalph]

I won't take the bait.......on an old thread

All the points you raise have been debated to death on this board. PA could break out his video of Dems approving of Iraq. I could bring up Clinton passing on arresting Bin Ladin multiple times

I could post a link to the article in the New Orleans paper that showed that the Democratic government kicked the can down the road for forty years when it came to flood control in New Orleans.

I could bring up Glass Steagall and your president who signed it? I could post the video of the Democrat led committee that declared there was no problem in the housing market, a year before the collapse, while Repubs were screaming for action.

But I won't........that's old news

[Tom]

We come now to George W. Bush
It was on his watch that 9/11 occurred and he was asleep on that watch.
It was on his watch that Katrina happened and on his watch that the response to that national disaster was too late, too little and poorly coordinated when it did occur.

It was during the Presidency of George W. Bush that Osama bin Laden was allowed to escape at Tora Bora. Under Bush we attacked a sovereign country that never attacked us. Under Bush we did so without providing our troops adequate equipment. Under Bush we failed to anticipate the Iraqi insurgency and failed to respond to it. Under Bush we lied, falsified information and cooked the books.


And they all lived happily ever after.
No, wait, they did not...they got put on an Obama Death Squad.
And a couple got assignments in Embassy's and you how that played out.

[tucker6]

Somehow I missed this thread the first time around. It is easy, and intellectually dishonest to judge any Presidency based on one or two things that went wrong during that Presidency.


never stopped you the first 7,041 times.

[Marshall Bennett]

9/11 was well underway under Clinton, all the training, trips to the United States, ect. What happened to Bush soon into his presidency could have caught any president off guard. 9/11 can be blamed on a breakdown of systems and policies set in place long before Bush came along.
Katrina wasn't caused by Bush. The devastation was caused by an eroded levee and poor maintenance. The deaths of over a thousand was partially due to ignorance by not following advise to evacuate, and once disaster struck a failure by local and state government to take control and coordinate, The governor (a democrat I might add) went missing for 3 days. By the time she shows up to survey the crisis the federal government had already moved in.
These two incidents, Katrina & 9/11, are not the fault of GWB. Liberals show a massive lack of maturity when they blame him for what he had absolutely no control over.

[thaskalos]

9/11 was well underway under Clinton, all the training, trips to the United States, ect. What happened to Bush soon into his presidency could have caught any president off guard. 9/11 can be blamed on a breakdown of systems and policies set in place long before Bush came along.
Katrina wasn't caused by Bush. The devastation was caused by an eroded levee and poor maintenance. The deaths of over a thousand was partially due to ignorance by not following advise to evacuate, and once disaster struck a failure by local and state government to take control and coordinate, The governor (a democrat I might add) went missing for 3 days. By the time she shows up to survey the crisis the federal government had already moved in.
These two incidents, Katrina & 9/11, are not the fault of GWB. Liberals show a massive lack of maturity when they blame him for what he had absolutely no control over.

Can he at least be blamed for the AFTERMATH of 9/11?

When the government -- and the media -- fan the flames of patriotism, and we end up in a war against the wrong country...whom do we blame?

We call the president the "leader" for a reason...right?

[Greyfox]

Face it.
America has had two of the worst Presidents in it's history back to back for the last 13 years.
God Bless America if it survives the incompetencies of these two dunderheads.
The next President will have to be a genius to clean up the mess made by Bush and Obama. Good luck to him or her as I have serious doubts that it can be done.

[_______]

I read the whole thread and still think Franklin Pierce should get the award. Everyone tends to think they are living in the most important time ever. I guess that's just human nature.

Absent current political agendas it would be hard to make a case for either George Bush or Barack Obama. Nothing wrong with the discussion but it does illustrate more the partisan nature of those making each case that they want to ignore the preceding 200 or so years of history to make a point.

Feel free to debate which was better than the other. But you can't seriously compare either one with a President who set the table for the civil war and expect your point to be taken seriously.

Unless it's the internet.

[mostpost]

I won't take the bait.......on an old thread

All the points you raise have been debated to death on this board. PA could break out his video of Dems approving of Iraq. I could bring up Clinton passing on arresting Bin Ladin multiple times
Democrats voted to invade Iraq based on false intelligence provided by the Bush Administration. Intelligence which that administration knew to be false. Bush himself admitted years later that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the attacks of 9/11 and no connection to Osama bin Laden. By that time it was too late.

William Jefferson Clinton did not pass on arresting bin Laden multiple times. You are probably referring to the one time the government of Sudan allegedly offered to turn bin Laden over to the US. I say allegedly because the only persons who claimed the offer was made were officials of the Sudanese government. Clinton claims it was never made, the Secretary of State says it was never made, the official engaged in talks with the Sudanese officials denies it was ever made, and the 9/11 commission found no evidence of any such offer.

Even though there was no such offer, there was discussion of what the United States should do if it ever became possible to secure bin Laden. The Justice Department and the FBI concluded that there was insufficient evidence to charge him for any crime. Remember, this was 1996.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Clinton claims it was never made...

That depends on what the definition of "it" is.

:lol:

[JustRalph]

Even though there was no such offer, there was discussion of what the United States should do if it ever became possible to secure bin Laden. The Justice Department and the FBI concluded that there was insufficient evidence to charge him for any crime. Remember, this was 1996.

Wvo2lQe81xk

[mostpost]

I could post a link to the article in the New Orleans paper that showed that the Democratic government kicked the can down the road for forty years when it came to flood control in New Orleans.
If you say you can post a link, then you should post that link.

What do you mean when you say the Democratic government? Of New Orleans? Of the state of Louisiana? Of the United States? If you are talking about New Orleans, a city has little control over flooding that originates outside its boundaries and definitely does not the resources to do anything to prevent that flooding. That must be taken care of on a state and federal level.

We can be very critical of Mayor Ray Nagin and the way he handled the disaster; the fact that he waited too long to issue a mandatory evacuation order; the fact that he did not coordinate evacuation with the bus companies; the fact that he was overly concerned with the effect of evacuation on businesses; the fact that when he should have been meeting with police and fire and other emergency services he was meeting with political advisers to spin the political consequences.

But in the end Katrina was a national disaster and the response had to be national. And some of that response had to take place before disaster struck.

Before Katrina struck the Bush Administration cut funding to the Army Corps of Engineers; it denied funding to upgrade the levies around New Orleans, the very ones that broke. It cut funding to FEMA. it replaced the head of FEMA-an emergency management expert-with the head of the Arabian Horse Council. It folded FEMA into Homeland Security and turned it into an anti-terrorism organization.

In the days before Katrina struck the Bush Administration failed to coordinate with local officials, failed to encourage them to evacuate the city, failed to stockpile and preposition needed supplies, and failed to stage rescue workers and security personnel nearby.

Fort Polk, La. is located 240 miles from New Orleans. The first thing I thought of was use those soldiers and those vehicles to bring in food and water and sanitation. Use them to evacuate people from the area. I never heard that any such thing was done.

[mostpost]

Wvo2lQe81xk
"We'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start dealing with them again."
That is very different from saying there was a concrete, face to face offer to turn him over to the US. In any case there was, at the time, no evidence of which to hold bin Laden.

[Greyfox]

In any case there was, at the time, no evidence of which to hold bin Laden.

We likely have a good information that bin Ladin was the "Don," mastermind, or Mr. Big behind Al Qaeda.
But sometimes "Mr.Bigs" in crime organizations are very hard to convict in a court of law. Al Capone, had to be tried for tax evasion, not the number of murders he committed.
I have a hunch that providing proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that bin Laden was behind nefarious terrorist plots world wide, might have been a difficult task for prosecutions to undertake- even if he was behind them.
I suspect Clinton, Bush, and Obama knew that too.
It also may well be that bin Laden might have had information about the CIA that would have proved embarrassing to any administration and he would have raised it in his defense.
Hence, the head of the snake had to be crushed the way it was.
That's somewhat unfortunate as he also might have been a fountain of information on terrorist networks.

[JustRalph]

"We'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start dealing with them again."
That is very different from saying there was a concrete, face to face offer to turn him over to the US. In any case there was, at the time, no evidence of which to hold bin Laden.

Rationalize everything, no matter if you heard it with your own ears........

[PaceAdvantage]

Now, in fairness, I am required to point out the positives in the George W. Bush Presidency.



Sorry, I can't think of any. :( :(Of course you can't. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Bush is looked at quite fondly on the continent of Africa. Do you know why?

Oh wait. White Republicans are nothing but racists. So Bush doing something quite significant to help the people of Africa couldn't possibly be true, now could it mosty? Bush probably wanted all of Africa to fall into the ocean...yeah, that's the ticket...old racist Republican whitey...after all, Kanye said so, right mosty?

:rolleyes: :bang:

[Tom]

Can he at least be blamed for the AFTERMATH of 9/11?

When the government -- and the media -- fan the flames of patriotism, and we end up in a war against the wrong country...whom do we blame?

We call the president the "leader" for a reason...right?

You could blame him, but that would be foolish, considering how almost EVERYONE has been quoted as saying how bad SH was, and how he had WMD and how he needed to be tended too.

And then they voted to allow the invasion of Iraq.

Did you miss the video PA has posted several times?

[PaceAdvantage]

Did you miss the video PA has posted several times?Mosty says all the Dems in that video were DUPED by faulty White House intelligence data.

Problem is, that video has Dems talking about Saddam having WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION YEARS BEFORE BUSH EVER SET FOOT IN THE WHITE HOUSE!

Albright was talking about HOW IMPORTANT Iraq is and how what happens THERE matters a great deal HERE...in 1998!!

Nancy Pelosi in 2002 said there is NO QUESTION that Saddam has WMDs. NO QUESTION!

I'll happily post it again...look how it starts in the year 1998!

Cwqh4wQPoQk

[Tom]

Tip o' the old Fedora to PA for shinning the light of truth on us!

[JustRalph]

Mostie is having a bad day..........

[Tom]

Obama just told the General Assembly of the UN that a man who used gas on his own people and killed innocent children cannot be allowed stay in power.

I guess that legitimizes removing Saddam Hussein from Iraq.

[Marshall Bennett]

Historians years from now will judge GWB as an above average president. Liberals and their media cronies won't factor into their judgement.
By the same token they'll judge the current joke we have as he deserves to be judged, in the same manner as GWB, and find him to have been a horrible president.

[Tom]

Now the Ayatollah is eating Obama's lunch.

What a lightweight BO is on the world stage.
What an embarrassment.

[thaskalos]

Historians years from now will judge GWB as an above average president. Liberals and their media cronies won't factor into their judgement.
By the same token they'll judge the current joke we have as he deserves to be judged, in the same manner as GWB, and find him to have been a horrible president.

A fine example of fairness and objectivity to contrast the obviously biased opinions of all the liberals here. :ThmbUp:

[BlueShoe]

You can judge FDR on the Recession of 37-38 but you must also judge him on the New Deal and the fact that his policies got us out of the Great Depression.
Said many times before, but once again; FDR did not end the Depression, it was Adolph Hitler and Hideki Tojo that did.

[BlueShoe]

Mostie is having a bad day..........
Leftists have good days?? :confused:

[hcap]

Leftists have good days?? :confused:May Day of course :)

[Marshall Bennett]

Said many times before, but once again; FDR did not end the Depression, it was Adolph Hitler and Hideki Tojo that did.
Absolutely :ThmbUp:. Hitler became a hero with his own people prior to the war by ending their own depression, which was as bad if not worse than our own. He had all the moral support going into the war which obviously ran amuck.
FDR was a national hero by, as you say, taking credit for ending the depression as well as taking credit for winning a war which may not have even happened were it not for the Soviet Union destroying Hitler's elite to the east.

[BlueShoe]

May Day of course :)
Da Comrade, but of course. :rolleyes:

[barn32]

Jimmy Carter was the best president of all time and Andrew Johnson was the worst.

[PaceAdvantage]

Jimmy Carter was the best president of all time and Andrew Johnson was the worst.A unique and interesting perspective.

Care to elaborate? Especially on the Jimmy Carter part?

[JustRalph]

Jimmy Carter was the best president of all time and Andrew Johnson was the worst.

Yeah, one was impeached and survived by 1 vote. The other should have been.....

[barn32]

A unique and interesting perspective.

Care to elaborate? Especially on the Jimmy Carter part?Oh, I just liked ol' Jimmy. (I know no one else did.) He just brought a sense of honesty and decency to the job.

Andrew Johnson on the other hand was one of the most virulent racists to ever walk the earth. He probably wore his Klan robes walking around inside the White House.

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh, I just liked ol' Jimmy. (I know no one else did.) He just brought a sense of honesty and decency to the job.
I think I voted for Jimmy Carter in the Weekly Reader poll in elementary school, so I probably thought the same of him as you did... :lol:

[Marshall Bennett]

I think I voted for Jimmy Carter in the Weekly Reader poll in elementary school, so I probably thought the same of him as you did... :lol:
We had something similar, only I voted for LBJ, while everyone else in Shreveport voted for Goldwater. Just wanted to be different I suppose. We moved to Houston shortly there after. I asked dad if it was my boasting when Johnson won that forced us to leave. :)

[BlueShoe]

Jimmy Carter was the best president of all time and Andrew Johnson was the worst.
Keeping it wthin my lifetime, rate Obama the worst, Carter second worst, with FDR third worst. Only president I ever really liked was Reagan, and I have gripes against Ronnie, namely his granting amnesty to the illegals in '86.

[Tom]

That was a mistake in 86, but the bigger mistake was believing Ted Kennedy was anything other than a lying POS who would not live up to his word. That was the event that proved you never trust a democrat and never ever negotiate with them.

The dems have done nothing but sink lower into the slime ever since.
Much like John McCain.