Why is California OTB so limited?

[lansdale]

It seems to me that most locations across the country that have simulcasting, whether racetracks or not, offer roughly a dozen or so tracks. Spending more time than usual in SoCal lately, and it seems that every place that has simulcasts only is allowed to offer the handful from CA OTB. Is this true thoughout the state, and if so why? Thanks for any help.

Lansdale

[boomman]

It seems to me that most locations across the country that have simulcasting, whether racetracks or not, offer roughly a dozen or so tracks. Spending more time than usual in SoCal lately, and it seems that every place that has simulcasts only is allowed to offer the handful from CA OTB. Is this true thoughout the state, and if so why? Thanks for any help.

Lansdale

In addition to all the other crap going on via the impasse involving out of state ADWs and California horse racing, they have another wonderful rule: They are only allowed to simulcast something like 22 out of state races for the entire day. They used to also bring in Canada via a "loophole" in the law, but don't think they are still doing that................Go to Vegas or open an online acct with PTC and have open access (and cash rewards at PTC) to the out of state tracks that are offering their signal to EVERYONE, and don't wager on California races at this time. You will be doing yourself and everyone else a favor;)

Boomer

[lansdale]

In addition to all the other crap going on via the impasse involving out of state ADWs and California horse racing, they have another wonderful rule: They are only allowed to simulcast something like 22 out of state races for the entire day. They used to also bring in Canada via a "loophole" in the law, but don't think they are still doing that................Go to Vegas or open an online acct with PTC and have open access (and cash rewards at PTC) to the out of state tracks that are offering their signal to EVERYONE, and don't wager on California races at this time. You will be doing yourself and everyone else a favor;)

Boomer

Boomer,

Much thanks for the heads-up. Actually I just came from Vegas and the difference is pretty glaring. I may take your advice and just go online, which is usually not a necessity for me.

Cheers,

Lansdale

[Indulto]

In addition to all the other crap going on via the impasse involving out of state ADWs and California horse racing, they have another wonderful rule: They are only allowed to simulcast something like 22 out of state races for the entire day. They used to also bring in Canada via a "loophole" in the law, but don't think they are still doing that................Go to Vegas or open an online acct with PTC and have open access (and cash rewards at PTC) to the out of state tracks that are offering their signal to EVERYONE, and don't wager on California races at this time. You will be doing yourself and everyone else a favor;)

BoomerIf everyone stopped betting all tracks for a while they'd not only be doing themselves and everyone else a favor, they'd get results quicker.

[levinmpa]

A little history lesson on California racing seems in order here. They have always been about 10 years behind the rest of the nation, except for the Pick 6, that is.

Early to mid 80's: Most States have $2 exacta minimums on every race on the card. Not California. They had a $5 minimum, and on a typical 9 race card, those exacta races would be limited to races 3, 5, 7 & 9, or races 5, 7 & 9. But, on the 9th race, they would let you play $2 if you boxed 3 horses. They finally got with the program in early 90's, offering $2 exactas on every race.

Early to mid 80's: When simulcasting was beginning to take shape around the country, California was slow to capitalize. First they allowed the County Fair locations to open satellite facilities, but they divided the state North and South. If a facility was considered a Southern facility, it could only simulcast the Southern Cal circuit. If it was considered a Northern facility, they could only simulcast the Northern Cal circuit. As a California resident, this drove me crazy. If I drove across the state line to Lake Tahoe or Reno, I could bet both circuits, but if I was in California, I was limited to only one circuit. In the early 90's they began to accept simulcast races of a minimum purse value to other circuit. I don't remember the exact value, but if a race was worth say $30K, it could be simulcast to the other circuit. Finally they changed the law so that the full cards could be simulcast.

I moved East in 1993, so I don't know exactly when they began to take out of state races. It has always been limited though. Instead of expanding their simulcast menu, and encouraging patrons to come to the track, they do just the opposite. They have turned the simulcast player into a home player. If you want to bet the Daily Double at Aqueduct, forget it. They will only let you wager on races 3-9 because they don't want to open early enough to take the entire card. They feed you a race here and a race there. 3 races from Calder, 4 races from Hawthorne, 2 races from Turf Paradise, etc. If you want to play full cards, you need to stay at home. It's just an archaic rule and does nothing but keep people from coming to the track. I don't understand the rationale behind the rules. They feel like they are protecting the live product I suppose, but they are only hurting themselves by pissing off the players. Someday, they'll get it right.

I think all tracks and facilities should use the Philadelphia Park model. Just open the doors and let them bet whatever they want. They don't nickel and dime the players, and haven't since I've been here. They don't charge for parking or for admission on live racing days or any other day. They take the full card for just about every thoroughbred and harness track in the country. They've got what seems like a thousand televisions. I know the casino has taken away a lot of the simulcast area space, but that will change soon.

[Tom Barrister]

To sum up the problem. California has an anal government, anal horsemen, anal owners, and anal track management.

Philly also had the right ADW model. They took all tracks and allowed betting from almost all states---including Nevada (although phone-only). Unfortunately, their technology didn't stay in touch with the competition, and they probably aren't used by many people anymore.

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

The current format for simulcasting in Cali started around '96 or '97 if I remember right and it'll probably be like this for another dozen years, given the sh*theads in charge. California does still take Canadian tracks; right now Woodbine and Hastings and Northlands when they're running.

[BlueShoe]

Widespread simulcasting allowing out of state races to be wagered on started in 1988.Before that,Socal and NorCal would take each others races,and a few major stakes such as Ky Derby,Breeders Cup,etc.We still have the maddening rule of only allowing 23 races per day from out of state venues to be presented.Canadian races,for some reason,did not count,thus during the summer we had signals from Woodbine,Fort Eire,Northlands,and Hastings.We are now down to Woodbine,and all year they send us races from South America,which only the compulsive gamblers wager on.This completely absurd procedure,on a typical card,sends us several chopped up cards,ie,we might get races 4-9 from NewYork,3-10 from Kentucky,5-9 from Chicago,and 6-9 from Tup. for our 23.This nonsense often prevents a player from bettting on a rolling pick 3 or pick 4 in which he really likes something in the late legs,but cannot wager on because the first leg or two is not on the menu.This California system is one reason why this player often travels to the racebooks of Nevada,where one can wager on any and all tracks to his hearts content,provided,of course,the bankroll holds out.

[BlueShoe]

Just found out that starting Jan 1,2009,the powers that be in this wacky state have granted the horseplayers 32,up from 23,races from across the USA to be simulcast into California.Unknown at this point is just how the additional 9 races will be assigned.It is the hope of most of us that these races will be used to give us full cards instead of the chopped up ones we now receive.It would be nice to have the whole card from Aqueduct,Fairgrounds,and Gulfstream,for example.Not wanted are additional chopped up cards from additional tracks.

[Pace Cap'n]

"
The off-track expansion - up for adoption at today's meeting of the California Horse Racing Board at the Santa Anita track near Los Angeles - would authorize satellite wagering at up to 45 new sites in the state. The measure was approved in state legislation adopted last year, but the racing board still needs to approve the implementing regulations such as rules for background checks and the cost and duration of licenses.

Off-track bets currently can be placed at about three dozen locations in the state, including racetracks, racing fairs and a few tribal casinos. Fans can also place bets by phone or the Internet through the Advanced Deposit Wagering system.

With owners of racetracks and horses financially squeezed, the fear is that without an infusion of cash into the system, the handful of tracks left in the state could go the way of Bay Meadows, the San Mateo venue of Seabiscuit and other famous horses that shut down in August after 74 years of operation.

The hope is that the new off-track sites will bring new bettors who could help bolster the racing industry - from the racehorse owners to the racetracks."

More at the link....


www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/15/MNU614N4HB.DTL&hw=otb&sn=001&sc=1000)

[DeanT]

This is true. Most state and provinces did this much earlier, but Cali is really pushing it. They apparently started advertising the new OTB technology with a hefty ad campaign.

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[BlueShoe]

With the CHRB go ahead last week of adding new sites,it will be interesting to see if and just where these new sites will come on line.With racing nationwide suffering with declines in handle,new locations may not be so forthcoming.The new regs state that a new otb site cannot be within 20 miles of an existing racetrack,current otb site,or Indian casino without approval of all parties.The southern and central parts of the state is pretty well covered,with a facility within fairly close range of patrons.The northern third is different.North of Sacramento and Santa Rosa,there are only two otb sites;Eureka on the northwest coast,and Anderson,just south of Redding.

[levinmpa]

I'm glad to hear that the CHRB increased the number of simulcast races from 23 to 32, but why the limit? What is the purpose of limiting the number of simulcast races? I have never heard an explanation for this limit. The CHRB, at least under Richard Shapiro tried to be proactive with the mandating of Synthetic surfaces. Why not be proactive with simulcasting as well? Why force the player that wants to play a full card from Calder or Fair Grounds to stay at home? In a time when on track attendance is critical, they are still forcing players to stay at home. Why aren't the racetrack owners more active on this issue? I have yet to hear one track management representative comment on this subject. The tracks and satellites are competing for the gambling dollar and need every advantage they can get. Why not open for simulcasting on Monday and Tuesdays? I'm sure there are lots of players in California that would play Philly Park, Calder, Tampa Bay Downs and Turf Paradise on the traditional dark days in California. Just go into a Nevada racebook or an OTB on those days, and you will see players. Why give this revenue to the ADW's when they can put it in their own coffers. It just makes no sense to me.

[gm10]

When I was in California for the Breeders Cup, I saw an ad for placing bets using your mobile phone, under the banner "the future has arrived".

This is of course hilarious, and slightly embarassing. (They've been offering this in Europe for many years). And it must also have been a very recent development, judging by the queues at the betting windows/machines.

In the end I ended up using my blackberry to bet with betfair. I know that Betfair is blocked in the US, but this is only for cable or ADSL internet access, it's fine with mobile devices. It was all rather ironic. I was in California, reading how the future had arrived, but had to use my mobile device to access a European site to place my bets on races that were taking place in this futuristic state.

[Charlie D]

Betfair is no different to the clowns running the US racing industry

Yesterday Calder and Fair Ground markets available,, today no Calder and neither track appears on the US coverage list for the next few days


Signed

a frustrated and fed up US racing fan

[gm10]

Betfair is no different to the clowns running the US racing industry

Yesterday Calder and Fair Ground markets available,, today no Calder and neither track appears on the US coverage list for the next few days


Signed

Charlie, a frustrated US racing fan

they only had it yesterday because there was nothing else on
they always go for the tracks that are on the racing channel (ATR), and the California tracks because they are so popular
(hint for the California equine powers that be: there is a LOT of European money being bet on your races and you refusal to embrace new technologies is causing you to miss out on this money)

[Charlie D]

They go for tracks that suit them, just like the the horsemen allow ADW's to have the signal that suits them


Signed
a frustrated and fed up US racing fan

[Dan H]

I reside in Southern California and am excited by the prospects. For my preferences, there are two states with great OTB options, Arizona and Washington. There are probably more, yet undiscovered by me.

Last winter in Yuma, AZ, I was able to drive to a bar named Ron's where one-quarter of the site was an OTB billed as a Turf Paradise satellite facility. It appeared to be a separate enterprise from the bar although sharing the same floor space. The had a fair menu of racing venues available spread over ten to twelve televisions. There was one walk-up betting machine and a single staffed booth for wagering. Horses by day, and greyhounds by night. After about 8:30 PM, the bar takes on a whole new personality, and depending on the day of the week, ranges from Mariachi to Busta' Moves.

A few years back in Bremerton, WA, I was able to visit a another bar (there's a theme here) called Don's (???). The building was basically split into a tavern area and an OTB area. In 2005, Don's also had the same wagering menu as Emerald Downs with one walk-up betting machine and a single staffed booth for wagering. Plenty of seating, table space and televisions. I was able to escape Don's before 8:30 PM, but the post-race atmosphere probably ranges from Sinatra to sea shanties.

In both cases, these facilities were greater than 40 miles from Turf Paradise and Emerald Downs respectively, and provided for both the casual players and the lifers. Both took real money and paid just like being at the track. The attraction to me was economical ... no parking fees, cheap eats, cheap drinks, and free seating.

I believe the recent actions to expand OTB options in California are based upon these models, to provide wagering facilities to population centers greater than xx miles from their tracks, reservations, and OTBs.

It makes me wonder if the CHRB thinks these satellite facilities are their answer to ADWs and their prohibitive nature is banking on them.

Dan H

[BlueShoe]

With new sites oked and greater numbers of races sent into the Golden State,sure hope that this will be a growing trend.On another thread the topic was racing the week before Christmas.A casual check of TVG today showed Philly Park,Tampa Bay,Sunland,and Turf Paradise racing.Now if Los Alamitos or Fairplex had been open,with free parking and admission lets say,with perhaps only part of the facility open,this player just might have wandered over a made a bet or two.Often at the close of the racing card from other parts of the country will see a page shown that states that the the grounds will be open for simulcasing under pretty much the conditions stated above.If other states can do it,surely so too can California.

[BlueShoe]

On March 16 the CHRB gave final approval for up to 45 mini satellites to go into operation as of April 4.That means,in theory,that a card club,bar,or bowling alley could go live as soon as a week from tomorrow.Have been unable to find out if any venue has actually applied for a license to operate at this time.