Recordkeeping Software

[Kappa]

Anyone have suggestions on a good recordkeeping software package? Or, what information one should keep, if developing your own via a database or spreadsheet??

Thanks

[hurrikane]

Bettor Keep Track is the best I've seen. I don't use it, built my own in access...but I modeled it after BKT.

I'm sure someone here has a link to it. I think it is Gordon Pines but I could be wrong

[Lefty]

It's G. Pine's alright at www.netcapper.com

[rmania]

Originally posted by Lefty
It's G. Pine's alright at www.netcapper.com

$150.00 ??????

Heck, I was giving away a similair tool !!

[Lefty]

mania, tell us more. Keep in mind it's my understanding tha Gprdon's will keep every category of race and ultimately give reports of where a bettors strengths and weaknesses are. Does yours do that? At the price, dying to read more.

[rmania]

Originally posted by Lefty
mania, tell us more.

Assuming this is not a tonge-in-cheek remark, what would you like to know?

[rmania]

Originally posted by Lefty
mania, tell us more. Keep in mind it's my understanding tha Gprdon's will keep every category of race and ultimately give reports of where a bettors strengths and weaknesses are. Does yours do that? At the price, dying to read more.

The one I referred to keeps track of straight bets, DD, parlays, exacta, trifectas, and supers.

It doesn't produce reports, just on-screen readouts. But then I can't see where reports are really necessary.

If ROI by wagering type is what you refer to as strenghts and weaknesses then it provides that.

So, where it may not be as elaborate as Gordan's, it servers the purpose.

[blind squirrel]

BETTOR KEEP TRACK.I FIRST READ ABOUT IT IN STEVE FIERRO'S
BOOK.I USE TO TRY TO KEEP RECORDS,BUT NEVER ABLE TO BE ACCURATE.WITHOUT A DOUBT BETTOR KEEP TRACK HAS CHANGED
MY GAME DRAMATICALY.......BEST $150 I'VE EVER SPENT.

[alysheba88]

Does anyone know of ones that run on OS X?

I keep detailed records but still the old fashioned way

Thanks in advance!

[betovernetcapper]

Bettor Keep Track-tracks not only the bet type win/exacta/tri ect but also subsets like sprints vs routes-age-sex-surface ect. It dwarfs the simple record keeping feature in rmainia's product much like Equisim's sims dwarf his program.

[rmania]

Originally posted by betovernetcapper
Bettor Keep Track-tracks not only the bet type win/exacta/tri ect but also subsets like sprints vs routes-age-sex-surface ect. It dwarfs the simple record keeping feature in rmainia's product much like Equisim's sims dwarf his program.

"Netcappers to the rescue!"

I never did question the ability of his program.. Only the cost.

But hey, if it's worth $150 to you, I say go for it.

As for the simplicity you speak of, well, IMO, when it comes to record keeping I say the simlper the better :-)

[Lefty]

mania, no, not a tongue-in-cheek reply. I was wondering if it did the same as Gordon'e. The strength of BTK, I think, lies in the ability to keep trk of dif types races and show strengths and weaknesses. i.e. F&M 3 yr and up, 10000 clm. That type of thing.

[rmania]

Originally posted by Lefty
mania, no, not a tongue-in-cheek reply. I was wondering if it did the same as Gordon'e. The strength of BTK, I think, lies in the ability to keep trk of dif types races and show strengths and weaknesses. i.e. F&M 3 yr and up, 10000 clm. That type of thing.
I used to spend a lot of time at Gordan’s site before it became a site promoting his software.

I have a lot of respect for him as a knowledgeable handicapper and a good programmer. I’ve even discussed ideas with him via e-mail.

However, I do feel that a lot of what he offers comes under the category of information overload. But that’s just my opinion.

As for a record keeper that goes to the detail of that which you mentioned, I’ll confess that mine doesn’t go that far. I threw mine together in about 4 hours and, at the time, if I felt that such records were really valuable I could have spent another hour putting it in.

Maybe I’m in the minority but I don’t see the value.

As a handicapper, I know which types of races are more difficult for me to cap. But that doesn’t mean that I’ll pass all of them up as I can occasionally cash a ticket on them.

As for my wagering habits, if through record keeping I could see that playing trifectas were killing me then that would be valuable info.

I would guess to say that most people don’t keep records and those that do (religiously) would probably get a kick out of BTK.

What I put together would probably do the trick for most. It’s simple, quick, and easy. And again, I don’t if the added filters in BTK justifies the cost. All IMO.....

[rmania]

Originally posted by Lefty
mania, no, not a tongue-in-cheek reply. I was wondering if it did the same as Gordon'e. The strength of BTK, I think, lies in the ability to keep trk of dif types races and show strengths and weaknesses. i.e. F&M 3 yr and up, 10000 clm. That type of thing.

There's a picture of the record keepig software on RaceMaker's webpage:

http://www.itsdata.com/software/racemaker/index.html

[Handle]

Since we're pushing and shoving and stuff.... And since PA, I'm sure, is about to push us into the Software area where this thread belongs....

As we speak, I'm implementing selection and wager tracking features into EquiSim. I'm not a fan of duplicating the efforts of other products simply to compete with them -- in this market its not worth it. And I've heard that BKT is a good program. But... numerous members of my cult wanted this feature, so I'm carpel-tunnelling it into the program. I also understand that BKT has one limitation - and that is that you have to enter all of the race information by hand (what track, what distance, etc.).

While this was a topic of dicussion at my board a while back, I'll throw it out to folks here in case anyone wants to toss back ideas for what they would want to see. These are the plans thus far:

A) Anyone familiar w/ ES knows that you can do queries on various things (sim winner, the profiler abilities) and filter them by race - track, surface, dist, etc.. The same sort of filtering will be available for both user selections and wagers (two very different things).

B) Making selections and wagers is as simple as it can be. You open the card you want to handicap. You go to a screen. You make selections and/or add wagers via pick lists. You don't have to enter in anything else. You do, however, have to have the data file for the card you are entering selections/wagers for.

C) You can classify your selections in a fashion recently re-popularized in a handicapping book. You can also assign odds in a similar fashion. You can classify your wagers in user-definable terms, useful for later querying (how well do those "action" plays perform over the long haul).

D) Reports - I've mentioned the flexibility of the queries you can make. For example, "How well do I do when I bet 20-30$ to win at AQU on the dirt, in a sprint, during May, when I classify the wager as "On an Overlay" when I classify my selections as "Right On" and set the confidence in my odds line to "High" ".....

You'll be able to record "macros" so that you don't have to press the buttons generate a report over and over. Start recording, analyze each wager types (set the filters) you are interested in, stop recording. Now you can re-play that macro (redo all of the queries) in the future without adjusting all of the filters.

All of the typical stuff in the report - ROI, average bet size, avg. payoff, std deviation of payoff, etc., etc.. Reports for selections will also be available.

Print and export (to text file, html) capabilities.

List wagers (and go directly to them for editing) that turn up in a query.

E) Sorting capability - show me a whole bunch of queries, but sort them by Win%, ROI, etc..

F) Future version ideas:

Graphs - show me a graph that displays my results (ROI, Win%, whatever) over time, by track, etc..

Programmatic analysis - have the program go through various scenarios to find where you do the best (saves you from doing query after query looking for the spots where you've performed well).

YOUR IDEA HERE

-Nathan

[rmania]

Originally posted by Handle
...

D) Reports - I've mentioned the flexibility of the queries you can make. For example, "How well do I do when I bet 20-30$ to win at AQU on the dirt, in a sprint, during May, when I classify the wager as "On an Overlay" when I classify my selections as "Right On" and set the confidence in my odds line to "High" ".....

What? :rolleyes:

[Handle]

Originally posted by rmania
What? :rolleyes:

I'll translate:

If I am going to spend the time to enter in my wagers, then I want the tool I'm using to be able to tell me anything and everything about those wagers. Hence, the example.

If I just wanted to know how well I do betting exactas or trifectas, I can look that up using my on-line wagering account.

But I want more than that. I'd like to know, for example, if betting trifectas made sense when I rated my selections in a race "top notch". That is, were they profitable. If not profitable, were they more profitable than when I rated them "not sure".

See, the only way to get something out of record keeping is to tie that record keeping back into the way you play the game, intimately. This doesn't necessarily mean that you need super high resolution statistics, but, for most, I assure you they need more than a satellite's view of their wagering activity.

-N

[rmania]

Thanks for the translation Nathan.

But in all seriousness, I think we're playing different games.

Good luck with yours...

[rmania]

Originally posted by Lefty
mania, no, not a tongue-in-cheek reply. I was wondering if it did the same as Gordon'e. The strength of BTK, I think, lies in the ability to keep trk of dif types races and show strengths and weaknesses. i.e. F&M 3 yr and up, 10000 clm. That type of thing.
There's a picture of the record keepig software on RaceMaker's webpage. Like I said, nothing fancy yet adequate and it comes included with the program.

http://www.itsdata.com/software/racemaker/index.html

[hurrikane]

I thought BKT was a great program. Biggest problem I had was entering the data. That's why I build my own in access. takes the data right from my betting sight and straigth into a db.
From there I have standard reports or can go back and generate a query on something specific if I want

[betovernetcapper]

If all you want is your roi on bet types, no reason to waste $179 on a poor Equsim clone-just go to the manage your account section of Brisbet and it will give you a complete breakdown. FREE with no data entry If you want detailed professional reports then goto

http://www.netcapper.bigstep.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=806280%7C806336&PRID=649145

[GR1@HTR]

BKT rules. Entry does suck but if they are winning bets then the the entry part is fun. IMO, if they had a wager tracking program that integrated with youbet or brisbet, that would dominate. It sure would save a step in the entry process.


BTW Rmania, your prog screen shots looks like the old long lost Sprint Genie. Is it the same?

[rmania]

Originally posted by GR1@HTR
...BTW Rmania, your prog screen shots looks like the old long lost Sprint Genie. Is it the same?

You're very astute. :)

The simulator is in fact the long lost Sprint Genie.

I was finally convinced by some in the biz that I should develop an interface allowing users to handicap and create their own races.

BTW, how does on deal with the likes of bendovernetacpper?

Is he on someones payroll or is he someone else in disguise or ??

[anotherdave]

I guess why I've never bought any of these record keeping softwares is I think they are over-priced. And now come the: "Do you understand how much time and work it goes to make one of these just to sell a few dozen?" replies.

But these are not handicapping software. If I am buying handicapping software I am buying a set of ADVANCED knowledge and procedures that I believe to be valuable. A piece of handicapping software could be work 2 cents or $20000+ depending on how good it works. But should a piece of software that does what BKT cost that much? It is just a very basic accounting application that doesn't have any specialized knowledge included. I am not paying for the developer being a good handicapper. I am paying for a record keeper. I can buy many home budgeting softwares (Money, Quicken etc.) which are far more sophisticated for less than 20% of that price. In fact I used to use Microsoft Money just to do my racing records!

I see Cynthia's record keeping software has dropped from $249 to $149 (probably to compete with BKT).

But I would argue that if either of those sold for $50 they'd sell 5 times as many. I'd buy it for $50, but I won't pay $150. I bet there are 10 people on this site that would buy BKT right now if it went on sale for $50 (anyone out there agree?), but not for $150. There is $500 (minus expenses) in Gordon Pine's pocket if he wants it. And he might gain a few customers for his other software from it.

And I do keep records. I believe it is vital to success at this game. I am no progammer, but I have my own excel spreadsheet set up for it and it works pretty well, but I wouldn't mind something at a reasonable price that would do a little more.

Just my 2 cents (Canadian funds) for what it is worth.

AD

[Lefty]

mania, thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate it.

[betovernetcapper]

I have mearly replied when you have attacked someone elses work in a shamless attempt to promote your overpriced ripoff. :)

[rmania]

Listen dude, I didn't attack anyone.
In fact I had nothing but praise for Gordon Pine.
I was only questioning the cost as did someone else repsonding to this thread.
Why don't you go badger him?

[betovernetcapper]

I must have missedf the praise part-but I too- was mearly questioning the cost-$179 for a poor imatation of Equisim. :)

[rmania]

Originally posted by betovernetcapper
I must have missedf the praise part-but I too- was mearly questioning the cost-$179 for a poor imatation of Equisim. :)

About the only thing in common with RaceMaker and ES is that they both have simulators.

And as GTR pointed out, RaceMakers simulator is that from the "long lost Sprint Genie" which debuted back in '98.

I'm sure they both serve their purpose.

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess this is why certain people tag this website as full of 'sellers' and whatnot...

Who was it who suggested a separate forum for vendors??? A very good idea...one that will probably come of age once the contest is over...

[betovernetcapper]

I think a seperate forum for vendors is a great idea-most of the knife forums have seperate comercial sections.:)

[Lefty]

I wasn't the first one to suggest the separate thread for "sellers" but I always thought it was a good idea. Glad it's going to eventuate.

[andicap]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I guess this is why certain people tag this website as full of 'sellers' and whatnot...

Who was it who suggested a separate forum for vendors??? A very good idea...one that will probably come of age once the contest is over...

Good move, PA.
Y'know if Dave Schwartz had touted HSH as aggresively as this, he would have been basted alive. And we chased Jerry Stokes -- a really nice guy -- out of here because he had software to sell.

Double standard, anyone?

[PaceAdvantage]

To be fair, if I remember correctly, Jerry Stokes has a REALLY thin skin....I didn't think we were that harsh with him....

[Dave Schwartz]

Andicap,

Although I am not taking offense, I think you will find very few posts where I even mention HSH. It just would not fit in well with the concept of PA, which, as I see it, needs to be "neutral."

Okay, so apparently sales and marketing is not something I know how to do. <G>


Dave

[PaceAdvantage]

Dave,

I think Andi was paying you a compliment.... ;)

[Dave Schwartz]

PA,

Yes, I got that.

My point is I try not to even act like a vendor here. Just a horse player with a little different outlook on the game.

Dave

[Kappa]

Thanks for the info. It seems that BTK is the only free standing program that was mentioned here. Maybe I'll do better trying to put something together in Access or Excel.

Thanks