View Full Version : Seperation of Church and State
hcap loves to harp on this, even though the constitution clearly does not call for it - just another bad court decision - so if we look closer at the idea, shouldn't all churches that allow the PIG reverend to speak lose their tax-exempt status because they area now talking politics and not religion?
I vote yes.
Bubba X
11-08-2008, 11:10 AM
What a great concept there.
Very USKKKofA-ish.
You have an opinion or would that be above your pay grade?
HUSKER55
11-08-2008, 11:51 AM
if you call that religion then I think you have one more problem than you thought you had
witchdoctor
11-08-2008, 11:56 AM
According to the IRS, if you endorse a candidate, you can lose your tax exempt status. Several churches both liberal and conservative have challenged that ruling openly. Some even sent copies of their sermons to the IRS. I know our pastor takes this very seriously and try to stay away from politics only saying pray for our country and vote.
Personally, I think mixing politics and religion is dangerous. It erodes the message of the church which is to love God and others. Instead we have become partners with the Right. As Bonnhoffer said "When politicians start courting the church, it is NOT for the benefit of the church."
eclecticapper
11-08-2008, 12:35 PM
The IRS usually just asks the pastor to cease and desist if it's a first offense. In this age of cell phone cameras, it's much easier to document the offense and there are watchdog organizations such as Americans United for Separation of Church and State that notify the IRS of cases of non-compliance (AU also criticized both Bush and Obama for supporting government funding for "faith-based initiatives"). The difficulty is in cases where there's no specific endorsement of a candidate, just emphasis on a particular issue (that's been the complaint surrounding the Christian Coalition voter guides which some churches distribute). The IRS can't go so far as to tell a pastor not to talk about abortion, so a pastor can indicate a preference regarding a particular candidate without a specific endorsement.
boxcar
11-08-2008, 01:02 PM
You have an opinion or would that be above your pay grade?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That was good!
Boxcar
Capper Al
11-08-2008, 01:52 PM
hcap loves to harp on this, even though the constitution clearly does not call for it - just another bad court decision - so if we look closer at the idea, shouldn't all churches that allow the PIG reverend to speak lose their tax-exempt status because they area now talking politics and not religion?
I vote yes.
Tom, Did you forget all the Jerry Farwells and Pat Robertsons of the Reagan era? I don't support the hatred mentioned by the PIG reverend, but I don't recall him endorsing anyone. And that's what counts to the IRS.
I didn't forget them ,Al...I have posted here before that my own Church - the Catholics - should have their status yanked for encouraging sanctuary to illegals.
Tom, Did you forget all the Jerry Farwells and Pat Robertsons of the Reagan era? I don't support the hatred mentioned by the PIG reverend, but I don't recall him endorsing anyone. And that's what counts to the IRS.
That was A-OK they were on his team.
Bubba X
11-08-2008, 03:29 PM
You have an opinion or would that be above your pay grade?
I stated my opinion. It was only 7 words. Which word confounded you?
That was A-OK they were on his team.
Forget how to read?
hcap loves to harp on this, even though the constitution clearly does not call for it - just another bad court decision - so if we look closer at the idea, shouldn't all churches that allow the PIG reverend to speak lose their tax-exempt status because they area now talking politics and not religion?
I vote yes.Including all the televised evangelicals? Ya' know public airwaves?
Wright and others are talking in their Churches and not a public venue. Following your logic, you would have to shut down many churches. And I thought we have the right to worship without governmental interference in Church, Temple, Synagogue, etc.
On the other hand, when literal minded claptrap minded superstitious posters tell us what to do politically based on their religious readings, and dire prognostications, a case could be made for separation of Idiocy and Rationality.
Never happen :rolleyes:
Hey hcap...do you ever THINK about what you post, or see a buzz words and call up a programmed reply? I've never seen anyone as dense as you are sometimes. Maybe if you tried to actually discuss things people would not consider they total jerk that they do. Wassup, duds AFRAID of a littel real discussion, or does'nt Daily KOS operatie in real time. Need a telepromtper? You are Pathetic.
So Tom are you for policing political discussions in Churches?
What about if there is no government money only private donations?
The way most Churches, Temples, Mosques, etc. operate.
I don't think their tax exempt status should be revoked UNLESS they go public and start preaching politics to outsiders. Actually the Evangelicals are much more guilty than Trinity Church. Ya know the repug reverends have public exposure 1000x more intrusive than all the Rev Wrights
Lately you have blown your lid. All I have to do is type "President Elect Obama" and you froth at the mouth. Programmed reply? People who live in brainwashed programmed LaLa land houses should not throw around pre-programmed stones.
You are to put it mildly-losing it. Have a banana
HUSKER55
11-08-2008, 11:46 PM
actually hcap, if you would read Obamas book, the purpose of Seperation of Church and State was to prevent government from forcing a church on the people AND to protect the rights of people to practice their faith. In other words, to protect a persons church
His qualifier was that he believes there should be a universal language so people know and understand where you are at and questionable aspects should be challenged.
Failing that, is not a church.
Notice he left the church of rev wright or was that politics as usual
So hcap, you get more pathetic the more you post.
Read Post # 1 and you have your answer...... shouldn't all churches that allow the PIG reverend to speak lose their tax-exempt status because they area now talking politics and not religion?
DUH?
Cangamble
11-09-2008, 05:05 PM
If you don't like separation of church and state, move to Saudi Arabia.
boxcar
11-09-2008, 05:28 PM
His qualifier was that he believes there should be a universal language so people know and understand where you are at and questionable aspects should be challenged.
I wonder what he meant by that gobbledygook? :rolleyes:
Boxcar
boxcar
11-09-2008, 05:39 PM
If you don't like separation of church and state, move to Saudi Arabia.
When are you packing? Don't you know that you have every reason to leave? Are you ignorant of the fact that Human Secularism was ruled to be a religion by the Supreme Court?
Boxcar
P.S. Don't let the door whack you on the way out.
So hcap, you get more pathetic the more you post.
Read Post # 1 and you have your answer......
DUH?
Tom, If Boxcar started a church, and you and Husker and LottaKash and other semi-religous fanatics but free Americans attended it, and Box preached his anti-Lib message in his sermons, wouldn't you support his right to hold services any way he wants? I would. If the sermons were limited to those Church members, he has the right granted by the Constitution to believe and preach anything that rocks his boat ( Ark? ).
Using public money and public airways are grounds IMHO to have tax exempt status removed. The right to preach privately to the choir is protected. Don't mess with that.
Ok box, preach away. :jump:
Nope. don't agree. Frankly. NO church should get tax free status, IMO.
Cangamble
11-09-2008, 08:20 PM
Hcap, I have Boxcar on ignore. If I want idiocy I'll go to the AIG website.
Tom, I agree with you, but it won't happen. Because taxing the church will wind up creating too many abandoned buildings.
boxcar
11-09-2008, 10:08 PM
Tom, If Boxcar started a church, and you and Husker and LottaKash and other semi-religous fanatics but free Americans attended it, and Box preached his anti-Lib message in his sermons, wouldn't you support his right to hold services any way he wants? I would. If the sermons were limited to those Church members, he has the right granted by the Constitution to believe and preach anything that rocks his boat ( Ark? ).
Using public money and public airways are grounds IMHO to have tax exempt status removed. The right to preach privately to the choir is protected. Don't mess with that.
Ok box, preach away. :jump:
The farthest thing from my mind would be to preach politically-oriented "sermons" from the pulpit. Pastors (at least Christian ones) are not called by God to do that. Pastors are called to preach the word of God -- the revealed counsel of God. The Word alone suffices for the biblically-grounded members of a congregation to make their biblically-principled choices at the ballot box.
Boxcar
boxcar
11-09-2008, 10:50 PM
Hcap, I have Boxcar on ignore. If I want idiocy I'll go to the AIG website.
One would think that such self-professed learned and avid student of muck and mire evolution (a/k/a "primordial soup") would first check to see if Hcap actually addressed him before pretending to respond to a non-existent post. This inquiring mind, therefore, is led to wonder just who is the idiot and/or whose posts could easily be characterized as "idiocy"? Of course, I suppose he could have had an ape-like moment and completely mistook his keyboard momentarily for tree limbs. Or then again -- there is that very remote possibility :rolleyes: that his ignore button ain't workin' too swell. :lol: :lol:
Boxcar
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