In one breath, we must accept the rule of the people, but in another breath:

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, I guess the will of the people isn't so hot....

Gay marriage supporters take to California streets

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Protests continued Friday in several California cities, including San Francisco, Palm Springs and Long Beach, over the passage of Proposition 8, which outlaws same-sex marriage.

The ballot initiative, which passed 52.5 percent to 47.5 percent Tuesday, overturns a May ruling by the California Supreme Court that struck down a 2000 ban on same-sex unions.

I particularly enjoyed this passage which once again points out how completely bankrupt the ACLU has become:

The American Civil Liberties Union, Lambda Legal and the National Center for Lesbian Rights have filed a lawsuit contending the ballot initiative was "improperly used."

According to the three groups, "such radical changes" as outlawing gay marriage cannot be made by ballot initiative, but must, "at a minimum, go through the state legislature first." The groups also argue the measure takes away a "fundamental right" from lesbian and gay Californians.Why did the ACLU wait until after the results of the election were known to file a lawsuit? I know! Because if Prop 8 were voted down, then the ACLU would be of the mind that the ballot initiative was "properly used."

What a riot! Literally and figuratively!

[DanG]

Well, I guess the will of the people isn't so hot....

The ACLU aside (they are a separate issue in almost any conversation imo) you are talking to the wrong state here and far as the “will of the people.”

A bullet train has been on the ballot multiple times in Florida (connecting Orlando, Tampa, Miami…maybe Jacksonville…my memory is fuzzy) anyway; it was approved last time while our Governor (Jeb) and a heavily lobbied state legislators over-turned the “will of the people”.

That wasn’t enough; a very “cleverly” worded amendment came on the ballot shortly after that would no longer allow majority rule on amendments; it would now take 60% before passage…”maybe”. :rolleyes: The bill was called…”Protect Citizens Initiatives”. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Sorry about the drift; but every time I see the phrase “will of the people” it triggers some bad local memories.

Back on subject; as I said…the ACLU…not a big fan; but I know your not condemning the right to organized protest…correct? That is a founding principal.

[raybo]

Current status

Main article: Status of same-sex marriage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_same-sex_marriage)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Gay_Rights.png/180px-Gay_Rights.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gay_Rights.png) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gay_Rights.png)
Status of Same Sex Recognition Recognition Granted for Same Sex Unions Recognition Debated for Same Sex Unions Same Sex Marriage Recognition Foreign Same Sex Marriage Recognition Civil and/or Domestic Partnership Unregistered Cohabitation Note: Hawaii not shown on map. (Civil and/or Domestic Partnerships and Recognition Granted)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Same_sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg/180px-Same_sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Same_sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Same_sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg)
Status of same-sex partnerships in Europe. Same sex marriage recognised Civil unions recognised Unregistered cohabitation recognised Issue under political consideration Unrecognised or unknown Same sex marriage banned


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg/180px-Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg)
Status of same-sex partnerships in the United States Same-sex marriages Unions granting rights similar to marriage Unions granting limited/enumerated rights Foreign same-sex marriages recognized Statute bans same-sex marriage Constitution bans same-sex marriage Constitution bans same-sex marriage and other kinds of same-sex unions


Marriage, as defined by the civil law, is currently available to same-sex couples in six countries. The Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_Netherlands) was the first country to allow same-sex marriage in 2001. Same-sex marriages are also legal in Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Belgium), Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Canada), Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Norway), South Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_South_Africa) and Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Spain), along with two states in the United States: Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts) and Connecticut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#cite_note-13). From May 2008, California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California) allowed for same sex marriages, though Proposition 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%282008%29) has overturned that right as of November 2008. In 2005, Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Spain) became the first country in the world to recognize same-sex marriage (including adoption rights) on equal terms and under the same law.

In 1996, the United States Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_the_United_States) passed the Defense of Marriage Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act) (DOMA) defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman amongst other stipulations.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#cite_note-14) As of May 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_of_May_2007), twenty-six states have passed constitutional amendments explicitly barring the recognition of same-sex marriage.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#cite_note-15), eighteen of which prohibit the legal recognition of any same-sex union. Nineteen additional states have legal statutes that define "marriage" as a union of two persons of the opposite-sex.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_marriage#cite_note-16) The territory of Puerto Rico ratified a similar statute in 1998. Nonetheless, some states are beginning to offer legal recognition to same-sex couples, whether in the form of marriage or as civil unions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union) or domestic partnerships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership).

The states of Vermont (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_unions_in_Vermont), New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_unions_in_New_Jersey) and New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_unions_in_New_Hampshire) offer civil unions. Also, Oregon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_Oregon) has domestic partnership laws that grant some of the rights and responsibilities of marriage. Maine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_Maine), Washington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_Washington), Maryland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Maryland#Domestic_partnership_legi slation), and the District of Columbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_District_of_Columbia) grant certain limited benefits through domestic partnerships, and Hawaii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Beneficiary_Relationships_in_Hawaii) has reciprocal beneficiary laws.

At the federal level, Australia bans recognition of same-sex marriage, but the current federal Australian Labor Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party) government favours synchronised state and territory registered partnership (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_partnership) legislation (as in Tasmania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmania)) although the Australian Capital Territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Capital_Territory) favours the introduction of civil unions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_unions) with official ceremonies. By stark contrast, same-sex marriage in Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Canada) was preserved when a proposed repeal bill failed at its first reading in 2006, while New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand)'s Parliament similarly heavily defeated a private members bill that would have prohibited same-sex marriage in New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_New_Zealand) in December 2005. However, as far as current jurisprudence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisprudence) goes, New Zealand's Marriage Act 1955 still recognises only opposite-sex couples as marriageable (although it has also included transsexuals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuals) who have undergone reassignment surgery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassignment_surgery) as the 'opposite sex' for these purposes, since Family Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Family_Court&action=edit&redlink=1) and High Court of New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Court_of_New_Zealand) decisions in 1995.

Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Israel)'s High Court of Justice ruled to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other countries, although it is still illegal to perform them within the country. A bill was raised in Knesset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knesset) to rescind the Israeli High Court's ruling, but the Knesset has not advanced the bill since December 2006. (This makes the practice of same-sex marriage, as far as Israel is concerned, like the performance of a Reform or Conservative Jewish wedding.)

[jonnielu]

Well, I guess the will of the people isn't so hot....



I particularly enjoyed this passage which once again points out how completely bankrupt the ACLU has become:

Why did the ACLU wait until after the results of the election were known to file a lawsuit? I know! Because if Prop 8 were voted down, then the ACLU would be of the mind that the ballot initiative was "properly used."

What a riot! Literally and figuratively!

Your right, the will of the people is always up for sale, and that's why America was founded as a Republic.

The Republic is torn down by the will of the people when tyrants further their agendas with "divide and conquer".

jdl

[sammy the sage]

""it was approved last time while our Governor (Jeb) and a heavily lobbied state legislators over-turned the “will of the people”.


So true...a Republican Governor...makes something the PEOPLE wanted....DISAPPEAR... :rolleyes:

sounds VAGUELY familiar/similiar.... :faint: :eek:

BIG BROTHER is coming....... :( :mad:

[DanG]

Your right, the will of the people is always up for sale, and that's why America was founded as a Republic.

The Republic is torn down by the will of the people when tyrants further their agendas with "divide and conquer".

jdl
:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Libs have mucho problems with accepting election results when they lose.
Says much about their character. Or lack of it.

HISSY FITS are not becoming.

[DanG]

Libs have mucho problems with accepting election results when they lose.
Says much about their character. Or lack of it.

HISSY FITS are not becoming.
Jeb Bush…Lib? :confused:

[Tom]

Jeb Bush…Lib? :confused:

no, no.... the hissy fitters in California.

[Marshall Bennett]

Since when is California part of the United States :D

[Hank]

Libs have mucho problems with accepting election results when they lose.
Says much about their character. Or lack of it.

HISSY FITS are not becoming.

Damn Tom I've got to hand it to you,you're the man at being wrong you are the greatest of all time.:D The libs took it on the chin in "CALIFORNIA".:lol:
better than tv

[Floyd]

Libs have mucho problems with accepting election results when they lose.
Says much about their character. Or lack of it.

HISSY FITS are not becoming.

I wasn't gonna say it, but you dragged it out of me.
I love you, Tom.

[chickenhead]

plenty of "libs" voted against gay marriage here in Cali. Just like they have every time it's been up for vote in the past. California is not and never has been the caricature that the player haters make it out to be.

[boxcar]

""it was approved last time while our Governor (Jeb) and a heavily lobbied state legislators over-turned the “will of the people”.


So true...a Republican Governor...makes something the PEOPLE wanted....DISAPPEAR... :rolleyes:

sounds VAGUELY familiar/similiar.... :faint: :eek:

BIG BROTHER is coming....... :( :mad:

You know what else sounds "vaguely familiar/similar"? The California SC is [arguably] the most liberal court in the land, and they struck down the will of the people on some legal pretense on this very issue.

Boxcar

[LottaKash]

The ACLU aside (they are a separate issue in almost any conversation imo)
Back on subject; as I said…the ACLU…not a big fan; .

Bingo Dan, imho as well, I believe the aclu has crept into our court system bit by bit, and much of what is wrong with this country, can trace at least some of it's roots to court decision's that were coerced and hammered with tons of kash by the aclu.....

The aclu is backed and endorsed by some very dangerous characters and governmental players and institutions that do business and have dutie in this great nation.......A bleeding heart, lefty leaning organization if ever there was one...

Americans have lost many a just cause due to these nefarious do-gooder's....Sure, every now and then a "real" just cause may be won by the aclu, but that is only to maintain a certain respectiability to themselves...it is a ploy.....They are one of the most dangerous entities to our freedom and our contitututional way of doing things, and their continued existence can only spell further near-future trouble as the Gangsters that are currently running our country, continue on their merry corruption spree....

Bit by bit, and inch by inch, the Big Brother is stealthily changing our cherished way of living.....

best,

[PaceAdvantage]

but I know your not condemning the right to organized protest…correct? That is a founding principal.I'm not sure what I posted originally that would even make you ask such a question...but just to be certain, no I am not condemning the right to organized, legal protest.

[Suff]

I'm not sure what I posted originally that would even make you ask such a question...but just to be certain, no I am not condemning the right to organized, legal protest.

Gay's can't get married in California? That's the big victory conservatives are celebrating? That's the tiny little crumb conservatives took away from Election day? I saw at least two threads promoting it as a victory of some sort. Unintended consequences or something.

First off, who doesn't believe that Gays will be marrying in California inside of 12 months? Maybe even six months. Gay's will marry in California , we all know that.


But even more important is, who is really pleased that Question 8 passed? What conservative is overwhelmed with happiness that the Victory they got on November 4th was , YES on Eight?

Let me know because I want to have a neon sign shipped into your front lawn, and I'll even pay for the party. Please let me pay for a party of Conservatives celebrating election day with a Gay Marriage Ban party.
I'll hire a DJ, noise makers...photographer....the whole enchilada.

Have that party. Please.

[Tom]

Suff.............................................. ........................The point

[Suff]

Suff.............................................. ........................The point

Points are always withheld pending election wins.

Tom you know that for crying out loud.! This is America! If you can't win an election then you don't get anything. Least of all, the point.

[Tom]

Further than I thought.

[Trijack]

Suff

I think 500.00 will do the job. You got my address will be looking for the money for this gay party bash in Orange County where conservatives still rule.

Jack in San Juan Capistrano, Ca :)

[Suff]

Suff

I think 500.00 will do the job. You got my address will be looking for the money for this gay party bash in Orange County where conservatives still rule.

Jack in San Juan Capistrano, Ca :)

I'll come myself and bring the money with me. You and I can get hitched while I'm there. I have to be the Husband though.

I'd guess it was just a slip that you called it a Gay Party, Bash:D:eek:

[Trijack]

Suff

You know what I meant but that is the way liberals are always changing things to suit themselves.

I am getting a new bumper sticker that reads :

Keep the Change
Sarah Palin 2012

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I'll come myself and bring the money with me. You and I can get hitched while I'm there. I have to be the Husband though.

I'd guess it was just a slip that you called it a Gay Party, Bash:D:eek: