PDA

View Full Version : Any Ruffian experts here?


joanied
11-07-2008, 12:08 PM
I got a request from someone about getting some info on Ruffian, and maybe someone here can help.

This person received a shoe that is supposed to be one of Ruffian's. It's a Pacesetter #4 with toe & heel grabs.

I cannot recall who was doing most of the farrier work at Belmont back then, and I also can't recall Ruffian racing on an off track. I'm going to do some searching, but if anyone here knows what her shoe size was, or if she'd have worn this type shoe...any info would be appreciated.

Thanks:)

ryesteve
11-07-2008, 12:41 PM
Can't help with the shoe size/type, but I can confirm that you're correct, all of her races were on fast tracks.

joanied
11-07-2008, 01:25 PM
Can't help with the shoe size/type, but I can confirm that you're correct, all of her races were on fast tracks.

Thanks...that does:ThmbUp: help, that I remembered her running on fast tracks only...I just didn't have time to try and find her race charts, so appreciate it, ryesteve.
I think that MAY rule out her wearing that type shoe...Whitely was so old school, I beleive she ran in plain ol' race plates, but could be wrong.

Grits
11-07-2008, 04:33 PM
Joanie, this may help.

http://www.millridge.com/meet-the-staff.aspx

Mike Bell, of Mill Ridge Farm in Lexington, is the son of Alice Chandler and grandson of Hal Price Headley. He's a former trainer, who also years ago, was an assistant to Frank Whitely during Ruffian's time.

The night Ruffian was buried in the Belmont infield, it was Bell who climbed down the ladder into her grave and covered her with two coolers.

If anyone, he may be able to answer your question.

joanied
11-07-2008, 06:44 PM
Joanie, this may help.

http://www.millridge.com/meet-the-staff.aspx

Mike Bell, of Mill Ridge Farm in Lexington, is the son of Alice Chandler and grandson of Hal Price Headley. He's a former trainer, who also years ago, was an assistant to Frank Whitely during Ruffian's time.

The night Ruffian was buried in the Belmont infield, it was Bell who climbed down the ladder into her grave and covered her with two coolers.

If anyone, he may be able to answer your question.

Hey Grits...thanks!! I never thought of Bell, so thanks for the link. I'll pass it along to this person.

I remember him going into the grave...me and some others watched it from a distance...they wouldn't let any of the backstretch workers into the infield, but we managed to see most of what was going on... through tears, I may add. I tell ya, the backside was a quiet place for days, everyone was in mourning. Horses break down, but that one was a shock, and it was especially emotional for me because of my 'relationship' with Foolish, as sad as I felt for Ruffian, all these years later, I can still see FP galloping down that long backstretch alone...crap, the entire thing was horrible.

Pace Cap'n
11-07-2008, 06:46 PM
Coolers?

joanied
11-07-2008, 06:57 PM
Coolers?

Coolers...race track talk for blankets...you know, you put a cooler on to
hot walk horses when they get back from the track in the morning, get a bath and cooled out.
:)

Grits
11-07-2008, 11:20 PM
Indeed, Joanie, it was a bad, bad, day for the sport of Thoroughbred Racing. I'm glad I wasn't standing beside you watching.

Achilles
11-08-2008, 08:55 AM
Wouldn't Shug McGaughey know? He worked for Frank Whitely back then.

joanied
11-08-2008, 12:24 PM
Indeed, Joanie, it was a bad, bad, day for the sport of Thoroughbred Racing. I'm glad I wasn't standing beside you watching.

yeah, it's one of those things that sorta burns itself into your mind and never goes away.

joanied
11-08-2008, 12:29 PM
Wouldn't Shug McGaughey know? He worked for Frank Whitely back then.

He might know...but I cannot recall Shug being with Whitley when he had Ruffian, plus, it'd be kinda hard to get in touch with Shug, I beleive...at any rate, this person has been talking with a couple of folks that might know, and is going to get in touch with Mike Bell (thanks, Grits)...so I think she'll find out about the shoe.
Appreciate :ThmbUp: you guys pitching in to help...thanks!!

CryingForTheHorses
11-08-2008, 07:18 PM
He might know...but I cannot recall Shug being with Whitley when he had Ruffian, plus, it'd be kinda hard to get in touch with Shug, I beleive...at any rate, this person has been talking with a couple of folks that might know, and is going to get in touch with Mike Bell (thanks, Grits)...so I think she'll find out about the shoe.
Appreciate :ThmbUp: you guys pitching in to help...thanks!!

Another person who was close to Ruffian,Yates Kennedy..Maybe his daughter Susan may have something to add...I beleive Yates died years ago..

joanied
11-09-2008, 01:56 PM
Another person who was close to Ruffian,Yates Kennedy..Maybe his daughter Susan may have something to add...I beleive Yates died years ago..

Thanks. I'll mention his daughter to this person... I think she's on the right track now...she's getting in touch with Mike Bell.

Living Flame
11-09-2008, 06:33 PM
The only thing I know is that Ruffian's shoe size is mentioned in "Burning From the Start". I don't have a copy of the book currently, but I seem to remember reading it was a full size smaller than Foolish Pleasure's - I think! Hope that helps a little. :)

slewis
11-09-2008, 10:57 PM
I got a request from someone about getting some info on Ruffian, and maybe someone here can help.

This person received a shoe that is supposed to be one of Ruffian's. It's a Pacesetter #4 with toe & heel grabs.

I cannot recall who was doing most of the farrier work at Belmont back then, and I also can't recall Ruffian racing on an off track. I'm going to do some searching, but if anyone here knows what her shoe size was, or if she'd have worn this type shoe...any info would be appreciated.

Thanks:)

Joanied,

Dont get "suckered" into this toe-grab nonsense Janney and Phipps bullied upon all racetracks. It was all about banning mud calks, which the guys that beat them regularly wear. Toe help but dont hurt.
They extend at most one sixteenth of an inch from the flat part of the shoe.
Take a shoe with a toe grab, pile up five inches of soft dirt in your yard and simulate the horse digging into it.
If there is anyone on this planet who can explain how that sixtheenth of an inch causes trauma, and keep a straight face, they should be doing infomercials on cable TV.

As far as Ruffian goes, search around on the web.... There are several pedigree experts that have written how her family line was very unsound and should have been avoided.

Of course the Janneys and Phipps's can never breed unsound horses or make mistakes. Royalty makes no mistakes.
They, after all, are the geniuses of the racing world.

Now that they pushed there mud calk agenda through, what's Shug's excuse for losing with their million dollar stables going to be now????

slewis
11-09-2008, 11:05 PM
I've said this before and I'll say it again.

Hard racetracks break horses down.

Racing unsound horses breaks horses down.

Continually tapping knees and ankles breaks horses down.

Oh and by the way..... regarding the new steroid ruling at NYRA starting Jan 1st, according to my sources, (trainers and vets) is nothing more then window dressing and not much will change.

It is NOT A FULL BAN ON STEROIDS.

Horseplayers continued to suckered by the rhetoric of the industry leaders.

Stillriledup
07-07-2010, 04:18 AM
Ruffian left us, 35 years ago today.

:(

Miss Disco
07-07-2010, 09:39 AM
Wow, I remember that day so clearly. Interesting that this thread developed at this time.

sandpit
07-07-2010, 09:53 AM
Mike Bell is as great a guy you will ever meet, but everybody on the backside always said it very difficult to get him to talk about Ruffian. He brought her up once to me, and in a moment of rare smarts, I just listened quietly. Hope he will answer you about the shoes; that's the kind of question that's probably easier to deal with than asking about her getting hurt.

Hedevar
07-07-2010, 10:00 AM
Ruffian left us, 35 years ago today.

:(

It just doesn't seem possible that time could have slipped by so quickly.

joanied
07-07-2010, 10:13 AM
Jeeze...now I really feel old...and I should have remembered that myself...I wonder if Ruffian and Foolish Pleasure got it on way up there...she had to wait for him...he passed away in 1994...and that is hard to beleive...16 years and I still miss that great horse.
35 years, but I can still remember watching it all from the backstretch, and watching Foolish get smaller & smaller racing alone around the track... waiting with many backside workers in Esposito's Bar for the surgery to get done, and someone coming in with the bad news, and her burial...
and still, her legend endures.

domino1891
07-07-2010, 12:45 PM
Joanied,
Did you ever determine if the horseshoe was authentic?

joanied
07-07-2010, 01:56 PM
Joanied,
Did you ever determine if the horseshoe was authentic?

Ya know what, domino...it turned into one of those things when you do a favor for someone and then not hear from them again...I didn't know that person, she got in touch with me because she knew I was involved with Foolish Pleasure...but after I sent her whatever info I managed to collect (and again, thanks to folks here0...she took it and ran:eek:
So...to answer your question...nope :faint:

sonnyp
07-07-2010, 01:57 PM
here she is winning the coaching club american oaks, june 1975 :

Ga50lpOMEus

joanied
07-07-2010, 02:26 PM
here she is winning the coaching club american oaks, june 1975 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga50lpOMEus


Thanks for posting that...I enjoy watching the CCAO because we ran Equal Change...I was right on the rail that day and it was a thrill when Equal Change made her move...we knew we were running for 2nd, so everyone was pretty damned happy that we got as close to the filly as we did.
I tried to post a photo I have of Equal Change with this post, but I don't know how to do it:mad:

Cardus
07-07-2010, 04:52 PM
Jeeze...now I really feel old...and I should have remembered that myself...I wonder if Ruffian and Foolish Pleasure got it on way up there...she had to wait for him...he passed away in 1994...and that is hard to beleive...16 years and I still miss that great horse.
35 years, but I can still remember watching it all from the backstretch, and watching Foolish get smaller & smaller racing alone around the track... waiting with many backside workers in Esposito's Bar for the surgery to get done, and someone coming in with the bad news, and her burial...
and still, her legend endures.

You wonder if the the horses had sex in heaven?

JustRalph
07-07-2010, 05:23 PM
You wonder if the the horses had sex in heaven?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

That's funny............

and Elvis is the lead singer in the greatest Rock and Roll band ever!!

tucker6
07-07-2010, 08:14 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

That's funny............

and Elvis is the lead singer in the greatest Rock and Roll band ever!!
Elvis is a Beatle?? Never saw that one coming. :bang:

Edit: RIP Ruffian. We still remember you. You were and still are the greatest female horse of all time. Anyone that could be mentioned with Secretariat in the same sentence and not be laughed at was the real deal.

SmartyLane
07-07-2010, 11:03 PM
Joanied- if you wouldn't mind I would like to hear the story on your relationship with FP. He was before my time, but I enjoy more then anything reading stories on horses from the past. I have read all the Thoroughbred Legend series, Secretariat Books, and Ruffian books. Thanks in advance.

Grandsire of both FP and Ruffian was Bold Ruler.

Hanover1
07-08-2010, 02:36 AM
Buying shoes from other than direct connections is for suckers....eBay is ripe with this stuff...There is a guy who consistently sells plaques with (supposedly) a lock of Secretariats hair instilled with it, It amazes me that he has a ton of them. He should have been buried bald with the amount of stuff this guy is pushing. And the average bid is $40 bucks, suggesting the smart money is staying away, yet the junk is selling. Go figure.......

TJDave
07-08-2010, 02:36 AM
What are this person's plans? Do they plan to sell or auction? And how could anyone actually verify the shoe was, or wasn't Ruffians? Seems kinda silly.

If it were me and someone told me it was worn by her I'd just put it in a shadowbox on the wall. I mean...Who's gonna know?

bigmack
07-08-2010, 03:00 AM
This person received a shoe that is supposed to be one of Ruffian's. It's a Pacesetter #4 with toe & heel grabs.
At last count, pawn shops throughout the country & Ebay have 'collectibles' that are as rare as a gumball.

To complete your tale perhaps you should reveal how this person learned that it is allegedly one of Ruf's.

Dollars to bagels says it ain't.

domino1891
07-08-2010, 07:36 AM
Buying shoes from other than direct connections is for suckers....eBay is ripe with this stuff...There is a guy who consistently sells plaques with (supposedly) a lock of Secretariats hair instilled with it, It amazes me that he has a ton of them. He should have been buried bald with the amount of stuff this guy is pushing. And the average bid is $40 bucks, suggesting the smart money is staying away, yet the junk is selling. Go figure.......

Do you mean this guy?

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l301/parrotsandpeglegs/butwait.jpg

Actually, his average sale from his first one (6/14/2004) through the end of 2009 is down to $188.39 out of 243 sales. His average sales prices are dropping (2009 average is $130.85).

I have followed his sales (under 2 different IDs) since he out-bid me on the original ball of hair on June 2, 2004. He won the hair, a mounted shoe and a LOA for $1260 from seller bigred51. His story has changed over the years, and he has purchased additional hair. He's harder to track now as his hair sales are now "private" and eBay's search only goes back 2 weeks. I'm sure I've missed a few sales, but through 2009, I feel I have 95% of them recorded.

Ocala Mike
07-08-2010, 08:09 AM
Not a Ruffian expert or a literary critic, but I can tell you that "Burning From the Start" by Jane Schwartz is by far the best "horse biography" book I've ever read. As someone earlier in this thread mentioned, some mention of Ruffian's shoe size is made in the book.

Fantasy racing in heaven: Ruffian vs. Zenyatta some day.


Ocala Mike

the little guy
07-08-2010, 10:01 AM
Not a Ruffian expert or a literary critic, but I can tell you that "Burning From the Start" by Jane Schwartz is by far the best "horse biography" book I've ever read. As someone earlier in this thread mentioned, some mention of Ruffian's shoe size is made in the book.

Fantasy racing in heaven: Ruffian vs. Zenyatta some day.


Ocala Mike


That race would be Hell for Zenyatta.

joanied
07-08-2010, 10:09 AM
Joanied- if you wouldn't mind I would like to hear the story on your relationship with FP. He was before my time, but I enjoy more then anything reading stories on horses from the past. I have read all the Thoroughbred Legend series, Secretariat Books, and Ruffian books. Thanks in advance.

Grandsire of both FP and Ruffian was Bold Ruler.

Smarty...I'll send you a PM asap:) I also have the best article I ever read on Foolish. From the TB Times...it's several pages, I have it saved as a PDF...I'll have to figure out how to send it to you...it's a really good read! A lot of folks, IMO, don't realize just how good Foolish Pleasure was.

joanied
07-08-2010, 10:15 AM
Buying shoes from other than direct connections is for suckers....eBay is ripe with this stuff...There is a guy who consistently sells plaques with (supposedly) a lock of Secretariats hair instilled with it, It amazes me that he has a ton of them. He should have been buried bald with the amount of stuff this guy is pushing. And the average bid is $40 bucks, suggesting the smart money is staying away, yet the junk is selling. Go figure.......

Well, you know what they say about a sucker being born everyday:D

trackrat59
07-08-2010, 08:17 PM
Not a Ruffian expert or a literary critic, but I can tell you that "Burning From the Start" by Jane Schwartz is by far the best "horse biography" book I've ever read. As someone earlier in this thread mentioned, some mention of Ruffian's shoe size is made in the book.

Fantasy racing in heaven: Ruffian vs. Zenyatta some day.
Ocala Mike

Was enjoying this thread and remembering dear Ruffian and then I read this $hit.

:bang:

tucker6
07-08-2010, 08:21 PM
Was enjoying this thread and remembering dear Ruffian and then I read this $hit.

:bang:
I don't get your violent reaction to it. I was enjoying this thread and remembering dear Ruffian until I read your post. See how easy it is to play this juvenile game.

In honor of CJ, I'll raise you :bang: :bang: