Rumors

[michiken]

Rumors I heard to today. They are totally unsubstantiated:

GM is holding a press conference tommorow. Rumor has it that they are filing for bankruptcy.

Northville Downs is meeting with horsemen next week. Rumor has it that they may close.

[Tom]

Heard the same GM rumor, Ken, out here in NY. Big layoff at the Honeye Falls fuel cell plant last week...couple of my former co-workers got the ax.

[lamboguy]

they only reported a 240,000 month of job losses this month. just blame the congress on those job losses!

truthfully, there has been no new real industry's developed in the last 50 years except for the internet, and that is really only a service industry.

[michiken]

Another rumor overheard today:

If the Big 3 do not get their auto loans this Friday......

Monday at 12 noon, they shut down. They have support from all the unions, truckers, vendors, suppliers, etc.

Totally wild.....!

[Tom]

61% of Americans are opposed.
Does a dem congress respect us or not?

Hint: Dingy Harry just built a multi-billion dollar visitor center so he doesn't have to smell the tourists anymore.

Is there a provision in the now 34 billion dollar bailout that every nickel of it be spent in the USA only, not Canada, Mexico, Europe, ONLY where the money comes from????? How much are all those other countries kicking in to bail them out? Why just US?????? GM, Ford and The Nazi Car Company saw fit to ship OUR jobs out of here, why com ewhoring to us for a bailout?

SCREW THEM.....LET THEM SHUT DOWN!

I never seen so many whores in one place!

[Steve 'StatMan']

The Big 3 are having troubles competing, yet they've supposedly trying to knock each other off for 60-80+ years. They've all bled tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars for at least a decade or more, and haven't righted themselves on their own in all that time. They couldn't save themselves up to now. We might not be able to save all 3, and how can they convince us with their own plans they can be saved now. As a group, we might be better off trying to save 1 or 2, if it can succeed at all. All 3 might be too extreme on the expense side, and might not be achievable anyway. Which 1 or 2? I don't know.

[DanG]

Interesting Michekin;

Also on a side note; what a symptom of how shallow we have become and the fact that PR people are calling the shots. Did I read where they arrived by Hybrids instead of corporate jets? :faint:

Would stage coaches please more of the narrow minded or is the emission level of horses too high?

Between public relations, pencil pushers, lobbyist and the common law degree between all three of them; I can hardly see our nation behind the bull$hit anymore. :bang:

[HUSKER55]

Good point Dan. The one thing I would like to see (and never will) would be to see our government represent the people. If our government believed in the market system then the prudent thing to do is give the money to the taxpayers and let us pay off our bills and then see who is still "afloat". Then those companies, who are not "afloat", need to go under.

Why be afraid of alquida. The US gov is doing a real nice job for them.

Rich get richer and poor keep right on working and staying in debt.

Think about it. How many taxpayers could payoff all their debts with the same amount of money as proposed in this bailout?

If that would not make these companies solvent then how is that the taxpayers problem.


Sorry guys, I just do not get this one. Would someone throw me a rope , again.

Thanks

husker55

:)

[bobbyb]

The shoe has fallen on 2 key Magna plants - Aurora/Newmarket - a job loss of 850+ employees, announced Nov 27th, firmed today. Members of parliament seeking provincial monies to stave off further layoffs - in other words - Frank needs $$$$

http://www.yorkregion.com/article/85212

Flex-N-Gate Seeburn - Jack and Turn Signal plant will be shuttered in Beaverton (Just North of GM plant in Oshawa)
January, 2009 (Jack plant) Signal Division to follow. Major supplier to GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Saturn, Honda etc. etc.

Yikes :bang:

bobby

ps: My heart goes out to the Seeburn workers. Non union plant, No pension, No real benefits, most workers have 20, 30 years with that plant; Beaverton is a pretty small town, about 1 1/2 hours North of Toronto; no viable options for most other than a long commute to perhaps another job in Toronto.
There counterparts at GM Oshawa were given 75,000 to 150,000 buyouts with full pensions/benefits.

[GaryG]

Ken, if you are still in the car business I hope you land on your feet....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

First bailout - 700 billion, rejected....back for 850 billion, PASSED
Car bail out - 25 billion, rejected...back for 34 billion....???? Hmmmmm.

BTW, AIG is handing out cash bonuses of million of OUR dollars to its executives, to keep them there. We wouldn't want the crooked morons who sank the ship to leave it, now, would we? :mad:

[Cangamble]

I'm curious, if GM and other automakers go bankrupt, what happens to those who get GM pensions?

[witchdoctor]

I'm curious, if GM and other automakers go bankrupt, what happens to those who get GM pensions?


I think they would be SOL.

[delayjf]

AIG is handing out cash bonuses of million of OUR dollars to its executives, to keep them there

I heard that too. If they did leave, who would hire them??

[toetoe]

Rumor: 4 out of 3 schoolkids are useless with fractions. :(

[JustRalph]

GM Volt driven to hearings...........?

http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/04/gms-ceo-arrives-to-capitol-hill-in-chevy-volt-prototype-senate-hearings-underway/


when you read this, I don't know what the hell they really drove up in...........

but they only drove it 2 miles and they are raving about how well it performed..........?

[The Judge]

I don't buy it the unions are in it for the long haul whether they like it or not, they only get paid "if" the company is healthy, if it fails so do they. The CEO's on the other hand can do what is good for the moment not the long run.
In the moment they make embarassing amounts of money. Its a conflict of interest almost, hide loses, postpone bad news, kill electric cars, bling,bling, watch the card keep your eye on the card. After bankrupting the company with outragous salaries,bonuses, they then get bought out for Millions of Dollars. The CEO's are only concerned with the short-term. Hint loan us 35 Billion so we can get our money out and leave the suckers holding the bag. Its the same game just now it can be seen.

If we are giving them money shouldn't we know what "ALL" the contracts are not just the Unions? What do the CEO"s get what about the board of dircators and their suppliers? When I say what the CEO's get I am not talking about that $1 a year non-sense. That's just more B.S, watch the card. If they aren't willing to give up all the contracts so that they can be gone over they don't deserve a dime of MY money.

If you were going to buy into a business wouldn't you want to know this wouldn't you look at the books at the very least. If its the publics money shouldn't it be mandatory? After all its a public trust we are talking about.

They had it all their own way and still failed they bankrupt the private investors now they are at the public trough they are applying for WELFARE.

[JustRalph]

The CEO's Salary and everything they make is public. It is filed every year. That is how it makes it into the newspaper.

You can look it up.

[ddog]

I think they would be SOL.




PBGC .
That's what would pick up most of the cost.

[ddog]

Good point Dan. The one thing I would like to see (and never will) would be to see our government represent the people. If our government believed in the market system then the prudent thing to do is give the money to the taxpayers and let us pay off our bills and then see who is still "afloat". Then those companies, who are not "afloat", need to go under.

Why be afraid of alquida. The US gov is doing a real nice job for them.

Rich get richer and poor keep right on working and staying in debt.

Think about it. How many taxpayers could payoff all their debts with the same amount of money as proposed in this bailout?

If that would not make these companies solvent then how is that the taxpayers problem.


Sorry guys, I just do not get this one. Would someone throw me a rope , again.

Thanks

husker55

:)


Mu gut tells me to let them sink or swim , but my head tells me that now we need to get them to commit to a restructure in light of maybe ongoing sales of 60% of current levels and structure the loans and their plans for that and give them a 5-6 year pay schedule to work it out.

If that fails there is still CHAP11 or 7 as the case maybe or sale/merger with other entities.
Gvt/taxpayers would be first in line and there are enough assets to get paid back.
The unions will give what they need to as they see a paycheck better than no paycheck.

The bondholders will be the sticky part i expect. But gvt can force them to give anyway.

If the plan is tough enough and the carrot/stick big enough then even if they do go down the "other entity" in a couple of years may be glad to pick up what's left after the concessions/downsizing have run their course.

There is no reason to throw a tantrum now, it's way late in the game for that.
The gvt and/or backstopped banks can supply funds at almost 0 cost so go for it. Once on the tiger you can't be sure where you will get off.

Think of it as upping the drip to a patient who is given a 40% shot of recovery if you can get them to the other side.

That's where it's at.

We do not need or want to encourage a swifter crash than what we are in for anyway.

P.S. the above assumes around 150B will be what's required and that we don't have a worse recession after a short flatline in years 3-4.

Nothings certain here, there are no good choices.

[michiken]

Ken, if you are still in the car business I hope you land on your feet....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
Gary,

2 years ago, I made the transition from automotive into the plastics (spray foam) industry by sucking up my morals and got hired by a German Company.

If you read my other thread, they laid me off one week before my dad passed - 9-1-2008. Their excuse was that the Euro jumped to 1.65 to the dollar and we could no longer be competitive. LOL reverse trade disfuntion. I found out that they eventually laid off the entire staff this past October.

My job search goal now is to take an engineering job in an ADW state like Tennessee where there are no state taxes required to be paid on wagers. ( I was told).

---------------------------------------------------------------- On Topic

I for one hope that the Big 3 strike the US. It will be the only way to wake up the Fed. This strike would cripple the US. But again, it is only a RUMOR that I heard.


BTW you can support American Jobs by purchasing a holiday gift from one of these retailers (http://www.usstuff.com/prodlist.htm). Even though I am unemployed, I still bought some gusset brand jeans (odd sizes available and fit perfect), socks and winter coat.

[ddog]

good luck to you and the others who have been layed off, it can't be a fun time.

[The Judge]

the fact I want to know how much are they going to be paid in advance. If no one knows something is wrong. How can the government loan my money it they have no idea how much is going for corporate compensation ? Thats a big problem for me. The Unions know how much they are going to get they have a contract. Make the contracts public.

If people know what the CEO's make why where the stock holders of Homedepot shocked when Nardelli walked away with 210 million dollars when the stock was flat? They had no idea he could make that type of money, while the stock stayed flat or lost money.

[wonatthewire1]

The CEO's Salary and everything they make is public. It is filed every year. That is how it makes it into the newspaper.

You can look it up.


True to a point, I think that the 'shock' came from the revelation about the golden parachute amount.

Those don't have to be disclosed and are contracted

[DanG]

I realize they are in essence representing thousands of people, but I would rather hang myself then grovel at the feet of Chuck Shumar. :bang: