Somebody is lying.....

[Tom]

And it is Donald Rummsfeld!
Have to take responsibility for our actions as well as defend them.
Rummsfeld went on MEet the Press today and lied though his teeth. He stated that the Geneva convention prohibited hummiliating prisoners of war, such as parading them in front of TV cameras, like the Iraqis plan to do later today. But last night, I sat in front of my TV and watched fild of Iraqi prisoners sleeping on the desert floor, while reporters walked amoung them and showed them off.
He further tried to lead Tim Russert to the conclusion that there was nothing to the reports of two pilots being hunted down and captured in Bagdad, then, almost reluctenelty, he admits that there might be a missing plane!
I wanted to throw up!
This guy is not fit to be on our team, and W should replace him immediately.
I, for one, will never believe anther word this SOB says.
If indeed American pilots are being held in Bagdad, you have no business sitting in front of a TV camera - you should be planning the rescue full time, pal.
We cannot afford to have creatins like this on our side.
Dump Rummsfeld now.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Tom@HTR
And it is Donald Rummsfeld!
Have to take responsibility for our actions as well as defend them.
Rummsfeld went on MEet the Press today and lied though his teeth. He stated that the Geneva convention prohibited hummiliating prisoners of war, such as parading them in front of TV cameras, like the Iraqis plan to do later today. But last night, I sat in front of my TV and watched fild of Iraqi prisoners sleeping on the desert floor, while reporters walked amoung them and showed them off. He further tried to lead Tim Russert to the conclusion that there was nothing to the reports of two pilots being hunted down and captured in Bagdad, then, almost reluctenelty, he admits that there might be a missing plane!
I wanted to throw up! This guy is not fit to be on our team, and W should replace him immediately. I, for one, will never believe anther word this SOB says. If indeed American pilots are being held in Bagdad, you have no business sitting in front of a TV camera - you should be planning the rescue full time, pal. We cannot afford to have creatins like this on our side. Dump Rummsfeld now.

Slow Down Tom. Let me address a couple things for you. The operative word on Prisoners of war is "humilate" or 'abuse" them. You are not allowed to use them in propoganda campaigns etc. Just being forward deployed and in bad conditions until you get back to the POW camp is what you are describing. That is not a problem. You also are not supposed to identify them publicly until certain steps are taken via the Red Cross etc. There is also a difference between "capitulating" enemy troops and resisting enemy troops. None of what you describe about reporters walking through violates the convention. Unless they were sticking microphones in their face and identifying them (or keeping them on tv long enough that their families could recognize them) for all the world to see, no problem. On the missing plane I have heard that the RAF had two missing planes. But none near Baghdad. There are also reports that one of them wasn't actually missing, it was just that his transponder was turned off. They also think this is why the other RAF plane was shot down. No transponder to identify it from others. There are operational reasons for denying things on televison until a certain period or even a time of day. He may not be aware that the 507th Maint. Squadron took a wrong turn and got themselves captured, or if he is, he doesn't want anyone to know until an operation to rescue them is either complete or no longer an option. Given a choice to mislead Tim Russert and maybe help save some troops, or spout off that we are aware and sending a rescue force, I am going to mislead Russert and I believe so would you. For a period of time anyway. You can always go back and correct the record and explain yourself. No problem.

Hang on, this might get very much worse. They have captured a woman, the video can get worse. It's a war brother. It can get much more bloody and morally repugnant. Don't start firing the leadership yet. History will judge them. The passage of time and the kind of reporting that will be done on this over the next few months will tell the tale.

[Derek2U]

Guys ... unless you are PeaceFreaks then simmer down & know
this: I dont give a F if donnie rumsfeld is lying as long as not
1 usa guy gets killed/maimed etc. as far as the parading OUR
soldiers are concerned I would announce in TOTAL CLARITY that
if they DONT release any usa guy being held or release any usa
dead soldier they got then we will intensify our bombing & make
their lives more difficult beyond their nightmares. Then do just
that if they do not comply. To me all these war protocols are
OFF if the usa says so simply because NO ONE is as nice or
forgiving as we are in war.

[Lefty]

JR, Derek, good posts.

[Tom]

I think he could have handled the question a lot differently and still not "tipped" his hand. He was smug, condescending, and I still say he was lying - they stuck cameras in the face of the Iraqi soldiers and you could clearly see who they were. The whole point of the pice was to show the we had given them humanitarian packages, which were featured prominently in the footage. None appeared to have been opened. I think I know spin and fluff when I see it. We are sending our young men and women into harms way to risk thier lives - we owe them and thier families the truth and I don't thin Rummsfeld is giving it. IMO, if Rummsfeld want to be a leader, he should be in Kuwait city leading - his presence in Washington is not required.

[Suff]

The American POW's wre shot Once. In the Forehead. Exacution style. No comparison. And you may consider this splitting hairs but I don't. The Geneva Convention states you cannot use POW's in the Media......ONCE THEY ARE IN YOUR CONTROL!!

The Iraqi POW's you have seen on TV are BATTLEFIELD Surrenders. Its live Television. Not taped brutality.

[Tom]

You are right. I had not seen the murdered Americans earlier.
I still think Rummsfeld dropped the ball and was lying about hings, but that is not the point anymore. WE are dealing with animals and you can't win a war trying to hand out food packets and avoid bombing this and that. It is time to pull out all the stops. There is way too much belt-to-belt combat going on here. Whre is our air support? It is time to take out Bagdad-and I mean TAKE OUT - utterly destroy it-level it, leave nothing left standing. Destroy the infrastructure. The hell with civilians- they should haveleft before. This is war and we are not killing enough people or breaking enough things. It is time to destroy Iraq.
If we have infor as to where Hussien is, then I say drop the BIG bomb-be sure this time. No more sympathy.

[so.cal.fan]

Tom, it's been a very rough two days for our troops.
I share your frustration. My husband sort of said the same thing you did, when we heard that one of the POW's was a female soldier. I can't even think about it.....just makes me sick.
Rummsfeld has an unfortunate personality to be sure, and they probably should have someone more tactful doing interviews and making comments to the public.