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usetheforce
10-23-2008, 07:58 PM
Check out the link below, lawsuit submitted 9/15/08.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78671

If this turns out to be true it has to be the biggest scam in American history.

P.S. get those guns cleaned and sighted in.

ddog
10-23-2008, 08:11 PM
Uh, Clinton would stomp Mac into the dust.
Even Gore or Kerry would be up +10 everywhere.

O can still lose, leave it alone.

ElKabong
10-23-2008, 08:20 PM
I've been following Berg's lawsuit for a month, just let it go. This will go nowhere. Ayres was something to hit, but not cling to. Hit it and move on. Put the paintball stain of radical on him and move on to...

(1) Reverand Wright preaching hatred to him for 20 years and 0bama never saying boo about his racist, hateful speeches we have all seen and heard now.

(2) His pathetically void record as a politician. Why get out of Iraq? Hell, if I lived in his old district I'd MOVE to Iraq. Fewer Americans died there this yr than 0bama's stomping ground of southside Chicago.


He's a failure who's at best racially slanted, at worst an outright racist.

Typical White Person.

Rookies
10-23-2008, 08:28 PM
If this turns out to be true it has to be the biggest scam in American history.

This same delusional idiocy was spouted last night on my local neocon, 24 hours a day diatribe radio station (WBEN- Buffalo). Maybe, it was you ! :eek:

Even the Republican host there said:

" Take a seat buddy. YOU are part of the reason we're losing ! " :lol:

Secretariat
10-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Sad.

http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

usetheforce
10-23-2008, 08:40 PM
Obama should be in Hawaii about now to visit SICK grandmother(or so the media will have you believe), Give me a break, stop his campaign for sick granny, and if she is so sick why leave Michelle and the kids home ? Grandma is the only 1 who has possible info to prove he is not a natural born citizen since of course the original birth certificate WILL NEVER be found only the certified copy he gave which we all know anyone can be payed to certify it.

But like everything else with Obama, Rev.Wright so what who cares
Bill Ayers so what who cares
Acorn so what who cares
not a natural bron citizen so what who cares

raybo
10-23-2008, 08:59 PM
Do you really think that the Democratic party has not verified Obama's citizenship? Do you think Hilary would have let something so damaging to him as this get by her during the primaries. Has it been proven that his Hawaiian birth certificate is a fake? Has it been proven that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii?

All I see is a smear tactic based on something as idiotic as his name and that he is half black. What are they really afraid of, that he might really try to change the status quo, ie: "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"? Or do they just not like the fact that he looks "all" black.

OTM Al
10-23-2008, 09:06 PM
If you actually believe in this garbage you can decide if you would like to be called either a) stupid or b) gullible. There is no other option. Attack the man on his positions if you want, but stuff like this is just pathetic.

usetheforce
10-23-2008, 09:11 PM
What does Berg a life long Liberal Democrat have to gain by bringing this lawsuit against a member of his own party ? Oh wait hes looking for a seat in the Repulican Party the same as Collin Powell trying to set himself up for a spot with the Democrats. Can't say I have heard a lot out of Hillary except a few speeches now and then, and if this is true guess who gets the Demo.nomination now ? H I L L A R Y oh boy.

Bubba X
10-23-2008, 10:39 PM
What does Berg a life long Liberal Democrat have to gain by bringing this lawsuit against a member of his own party ? Oh wait hes looking for a seat in the Repulican Party the same as Collin Powell trying to set himself up for a spot with the Democrats. Can't say I have heard a lot out of Hillary except a few speeches now and then, and if this is true guess who gets the Demo.nomination now ? H I L L A R Y oh boy.

Oh boy indeed. This is a truly inspiring post. I hate commas too.

JustRalph
10-23-2008, 10:46 PM
I heard an interview with this Berg guy on the radio. He doesn't sound like a nut really............... but I thought this crap had been laid to rest a while back.

HUSKER55
10-23-2008, 10:55 PM
We go after Sarah because of her glasses and her wardrobe and now we go after obama for a birth certificate.

There are so many lies and half truths out there it is a wonder if anybody bothers to get involved. Who wants to shovel a ton of manure just to vote?

Wouldn't you think the RNC and the DNC would verify, at bear minimum, the basic requirements to run for president?

If they didn't, we have a lot of problems and now ONE BIG PROBLEM.

I don't think so. I will believe it when I see it and not before.

Rookies
10-23-2008, 11:04 PM
I heard an interview with this Berg guy on the radio. He doesn't sound like a nut really............... but I thought this crap had been laid to rest a while back.

Ralph, if you want to be a charter member of the " Get a Brain MorAns " crowd... then keep beating this drum.

What's next ?

Was Obama on that grassy knoll ? in the bunker with Hitler ? part of a UFO plot ?

Good thing you don't have Socialized medicine. There's going to be a whole lot of work for shrinks for the deluded and insane in 12 days ! :lol:

Dave Schwartz
10-23-2008, 11:08 PM
What difference does it make why he filed the suit. It is the law of the land.

Kind of ironic, don't you think, that a "constituitonal" law professor like Obama would just ignore the consititution like this?

Greyfox
10-23-2008, 11:14 PM
I predict:

The next President will be left handed. You can bet on that! ;)

http://bp1.blogger.com/_skESA6M92gM/R9n2KKBmWKI/AAAAAAAAAD4/FAatVfHgz-c/s400/thinkdifferent_obama-1.JPG


http://www.anythingleft-handed.co.uk/nl/nlimages/mccain-writing-lh.jpg.

ElKabong
10-23-2008, 11:22 PM
What are they really afraid of, that he might really try to change the status quo, ie: "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"? Or do they just not like the fact that he looks "all" black.


No one is "afraid". That's total nonsense. Concerned that a know nothing, do little, talk a lot, Chicago pol gets into the WH? Yes.

If he wins, and I doubt he will, he needs to understand that "domestic terrorists" are found in red and blue. Ayres bombs a federal judge's home? Unfortunately what goes around comes around, Barry. I hope it doesn't, and that 0bama gets his 4 yrs in so everyone can be reminded of what the Carter years were like.

Then we get back to true conservative (look it up in the dictionary) government.

But I'd like to see Palin -Mc win and avoid the 0b0 catastrophe.

PaceAdvantage
10-24-2008, 04:09 AM
Ralph, if you want to be a charter member of the " Get a Brain MorAns " crowd... then keep beating this drum.

What's next ?

Was Obama on that grassy knoll ? in the bunker with Hitler ? part of a UFO plot ?

Good thing you don't have Socialized medicine. There's going to be a whole lot of work for shrinks for the deluded and insane in 12 days ! :lol:Why are some of you so intent on shutting up the opposition? Are you anti-American?

jonnielu
10-24-2008, 05:13 AM
We go after Sarah because of her glasses and her wardrobe and now we go after obama for a birth certificate.

There are so many lies and half truths out there it is a wonder if anybody bothers to get involved. Who wants to shovel a ton of manure just to vote?

Wouldn't you think the RNC and the DNC would verify, at bear minimum, the basic requirements to run for president?

If they didn't, we have a lot of problems and now ONE BIG PROBLEM.

I don't think so. I will believe it when I see it and not before.

Why should the DNC or the RNC or any government in this country bother doing anything according to the rules? The citizenry certainly won't lift a finger to hold them accountable.

jdl

hcap
10-24-2008, 06:06 AM
Obama should be in Hawaii about now to visit SICK grandmother(or so the media will have you believe), Give me a break, stop his campaign for sick granny, and if she is so sick why leave Michelle and the kids home ? Grandma is the only 1 who has possible info to prove he is not a natural born citizen since of course the original birth certificate WILL NEVER be found only the certified copy he gave which we all know anyone can be payed to certify it.

But like everything else with Obama, Rev.Wright so what who cares
Bill Ayers so what who cares
Acorn so what who cares
not a natural bron citizen so what who cares
Mr "userforce" just remember the lessons of "Star Wars"

http://www.smart-kit.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/palpatineevil.jpg

Luke, you underestimate the power of the Dark Side. Let your anger rise up. G-o-o-d, g-o-o-d. I have forseen it!

Tom
10-24-2008, 08:01 AM
Why should the DNC or the RNC or any government in this country bother doing anything according to the rules? The citizenry certainly won't lift a finger to hold them accountable.

jdl

Exactamundo. Our representative form of government is a failure. It can never succeed because you cannot outsource your rights to anyone and expect them to represet you. Our govt doesn't represent anyone but themselves and the lobbyists witht deepest pockets. Only a pure democray with one man, one vote can have a prayer os success. Obama and hispolitical machine are 180 degrees away frmo freedom. McCian is 90.

Our current govt has already thrown out the constitution by nationalizing financial institutions. This is just how Sadamm Hussein started out.

This government must be ended.

Hank
10-24-2008, 11:00 PM
Exactamundo. Our representative form of government is a failure. It can never succeed because you cannot outsource your rights to anyone and expect them to represet you. Our govt doesn't represent anyone but themselves and the lobbyists witht deepest pockets. Only a pure democray with one man, one vote can have a prayer os success. Obama and hispolitical machine are 180 degrees away frmo freedom. McCian is 90.

Our current govt has already thrown out the constitution by nationalizing financial institutions. This is just how Sadamm Hussein started out.

This government must be ended.

Nice post Tom...except the geometry':lol:

raybo
10-24-2008, 11:20 PM
Exactamundo. Our representative form of government is a failure. It can never succeed because you cannot outsource your rights to anyone and expect them to represet you. Our govt doesn't represent anyone but themselves and the lobbyists witht deepest pockets. Only a pure democray with one man, one vote can have a prayer os success. Obama and hispolitical machine are 180 degrees away frmo freedom. McCian is 90.

Our current govt has already thrown out the constitution by nationalizing financial institutions. This is just how Sadamm Hussein started out.

This government must be ended.

Better watch yourself, Tom, you don't want GW and his cohorts in the "conservative" Republican administration and their friends at the NSA, FBI, and no telling what other "agencies" there are out there, to get on your trail, huh?

OTM Al
10-24-2008, 11:23 PM
Hmmm... just an observation, but sounds a lot like what that Ayres fellow was saying back when he was an evil terrorist....

Tom
10-25-2008, 12:25 AM
Just an observation, the diff is the bombs.

raybo
10-25-2008, 04:51 AM
Why should the DNC or the RNC or any government in this country bother doing anything according to the rules? The citizenry certainly won't lift a finger to hold them accountable.

jdl

Certainly not the "conservative" citizenry, anyway. IMO, "conservative", as regards politics, means: "We like things the way they are, don't change anything, we have things going exactly the way we want them to go, the heck with anyone else who isn't as fortunate."

Dick Schmidt
10-25-2008, 05:58 AM
Guys, this is really a non issue. We've already had a President born outside the US or any area considered US territory (army base, embassy etc.) Herbert Hoover was born in China, where his parents were missionaries, and when his eligibility was challenged the Supreme Court ruled that because his parents were US citizens, it didn't matter where he was born. Obama's mother, at least, was a US citizen, he has an American passport and he can be President. Werther he should be President is another story . . .


Dick

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading."

hcap
10-25-2008, 06:06 AM
http://mediamatters.org/items/200810230020?f=h_popular

Conservative media figures allege Obama's Hawaii trip is about discredited birth-certificate rumors, not his ailing grandmother

......Conservative radio hosts Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh and Obama Nation author Jerome Corsi -- who appeared as a guest on G. Gordon Liddy's radio show -- suggested or asserted that the true purpose of Sen. Barack Obama's current trip to Hawaii is not to visit his ailing grandmother, as Obama claims, but rather to address rumors -- widely debunked -- that Obama has failed to produce a valid U.S. birth certificate.


Pathetic.

dav4463
10-25-2008, 06:19 AM
http://mediamatters.org/items/200810230020?f=h_popular

Conservative media figures allege Obama's Hawaii trip is about discredited birth-certificate rumors, not his ailing grandmother

......Conservative radio hosts Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh and Obama Nation author Jerome Corsi -- who appeared as a guest on G. Gordon Liddy's radio show -- suggested or asserted that the true purpose of Sen. Barack Obama's current trip to Hawaii is not to visit his ailing grandmother, as Obama claims, but rather to address rumors -- widely debunked -- that Obama has failed to produce a valid U.S. birth certificate.


Pathetic.


It may be pathetic, but it's probably true.

hcap
10-25-2008, 06:34 AM
It may be pathetic, but it's probably true.Another
pathetic.

dav4463
10-25-2008, 06:49 AM
It might be true. How do you know? Maybe he's just covering his bases. He could've went back to get his birth certificate out of the cedar chest and make sure he was born in America.

hcap
10-25-2008, 07:00 AM
It might be true. How do you know? Maybe he's just covering his bases. He could've went back to get his birth certificate out of the cedar chest and make sure he was born in America.

This is why.......

"Conservative radio hosts Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh and Obama Nation author Jerome Corsi -- who appeared as a guest on G. Gordon Liddy's radio show -- suggested or asserted that the true purpose of Sen. Barack Obama's current trip to Hawaii is not to visit his ailing grandmother, as Obama claims, but rather to address rumors -- widely debunked -- that Obama has failed to produce a valid U.S. birth certificate.

Tom
10-25-2008, 10:17 AM
Maybe he just wanted to throw her under the bus again.

boxcar
10-25-2008, 10:54 AM
Maybe he just wanted to throw her under the bus again.

But this time to keep her mouth shut about him!

Boxcar

toetoe
10-25-2008, 11:54 AM
I hereby rebunk the charges. Now please re-debunk, and as widely as possible, sir, or stay home. A narrow debunctation JUS' WON'T DO ! (Dan Rather voice, please.) :)

The Hoover reference is very punctilious. Thank you. I will check that out. You know what history says about Hoover, right ? ;)

Secretariat
10-26-2008, 11:05 AM
It might be true. How do you know? Maybe he's just covering his bases. He could've went back to get his birth certificate out of the cedar chest and make sure he was born in America.

This is jsut sad unless you're being facetious. There are thousands upon thousands of "could have been's" I could specualte upon. Doesn't make it so. I've already posted a link from www.fightthesmears.com with an image of Obama's birth certificate. Unless, you've got proof, these type of irresponsible assertions are playing on radio talk show host partisan paranoia.

Tom
10-26-2008, 11:58 AM
He might be a citizen but is he an American?

raybo
10-26-2008, 12:53 PM
He might be a citizen but is he an American?

What's that supposed to mean? Define "American".

boxcar
10-26-2008, 01:24 PM
What's that supposed to mean? Define "American".

An American is someone who is proud of this country (even though we're not perfect) and not only doesn't consider this nation to be the wellspring of the world's problems, but see us as a beacon of light and hope to all the peoples of the world whose freedoms are restricted to one degree or another.

An American is someone who cherishes individual liberties to such a degree that he'll fight to protect them when necessary. (Notice I didn't say "if" because many in this world are enemies of Freedom.)

An American is someone who champions Capitalism because this is the only economic system that provides genuine incentive and motivation for progress, personal achievement and personal success.

Boxcar

dutchboy
10-26-2008, 02:03 PM
What's that supposed to mean? Define "American".

Definition of an American

You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.

So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone know what an American is, so they would know when they found one:

An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Chamorro, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.

An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.

An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.

An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God-given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need. When the Soviet army overran Afghanistan 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country. As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan.

Americans welcome the best: The best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes. But they also welcome the least. The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These, in fact, are the people who built America. Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001, earning a better life for their families. I've been told that the World trade Center victims were from at least 30 other countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.



<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 14.0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pass this around the World.

Tom
10-26-2008, 04:36 PM
What's that supposed to mean? Define "American".

Someone who is not a citizen of the world. Someone who is proud of their country. Someone who doesn't run it down in foreign countries. Someone who believes in freedom, not dependency. Obama is a strike out.

hcap
10-26-2008, 08:01 PM
He might be a citizen but is he an American?

What's that supposed to mean? Define "American".Ray, this is like the head pig in George Orwells' Animal Farm deciding that "ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"

Tom squeals a lot 'bout who is an American and who is not, Joseph McCarthy is alive and well.

boxcar
10-26-2008, 08:21 PM
Ray, this is like the head pig in George Orwells' Animal Farm deciding that "ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"l.

Perhaps the "animals" themselves play a crucial role in determining the nature of their equality. To be sure, there are people who are Americans only by the letter of the law, and then there are Americans by virtue of the spirit thereof, also.

Boxcar

hcap
10-26-2008, 09:24 PM
Perhaps the "animals" themselves play a crucial role in determining the nature of their equality. To be sure, there are people who are Americans only by the letter of the law, and then there are Americans by virtue of the spirit thereof, also.

BoxcarBox, pardon my ignorance but who exactly determines---"who are Americans only by the letter of the law" Sounds like another oinking pig declaring who are worthy and who are not. Another SOME are more equal than other moment. Dangerous ground. Dontcha think?

Tom
10-26-2008, 09:34 PM
Wake up, hcap.....1984 is a lot more likely under Obama.

Secretariat
10-26-2008, 09:37 PM
This is the stuff that gets Repubs into trouble. Whether it's the McCain campaign delineating "real" Americans in southern Virginia vs "fake" Americans in northern Virginia or dimwits like Congresswoman Michelle Bachman wanting a means tests for patriotism in Congress,

It stinks of McCarthyism, and someone who can't say that both John McCain and Barrack Obama are both fine Americans who simply have two different viewpoints on the policy that will be most beneficial to America's future - well, those people may as well just tune into Rush or Michael Savage or Hannity for what they are supposed to do. :bang: :bang: :bang:

hcap
10-26-2008, 09:43 PM
Tom, what Sec just said :jump:
Cut the crap. Gunner Joe is so 50s'

hcap
10-26-2008, 10:19 PM
I guess the 50s' are alive and well along with Joe the Gunners' legacy.
Did I say Joe the Gunner? Hope McCain or Palin don't read off topic horse racing boards. They could coin a new slogun, and maybe see how much taxes Joe McCarthy would had have to pay under Obamas' tax plan. Joe the Plumbers' appeal is wearing thin :D

On Thursday the Pennsylvania GOP sent out an email to 75,000 Jewish voters in the state warning that electing Obama could lead to a second Holocaust...The state GOP is now running away from that email as fast as it can.
AP reports:

"Jewish Americans cannot afford to make the wrong decision on Tuesday, November 4th, 2008," the e-mail reads. "Many of our ancestors ignored the warning signs in the 1930s and 1940s and made a tragic mistake. Let's not make a similar one this year!"

A copy of the e-mail, provided by Democratic officials, says it was "Paid for by the Republican Federal Committee of PA - Victory 2008."

It warns "Fellow Jewish Voters" of the danger of a second Holocaust due to the threats to Israel from its neighbors and touts Republican presidential candidate John McCain's qualifications over those of Obama.

Boris
10-26-2008, 10:50 PM
This is the stuff that gets Repubs into trouble. Whether it's the McCain campaign delineating "real" Americans in southern Virginia vs "fake" Americans in northern Virginia or dimwits like Congresswoman Michelle Bachman wanting a means tests for patriotism in Congress,

It stinks of McCarthyism, and someone who can't say that both John McCain and Barrack Obama are both fine Americans who simply have two different viewpoints on the policy that will be most beneficial to America's future - well, those people may as well just tune into Rush or Michael Savage or Hannity for what they are supposed to do. :bang: :bang: :bang:

Or Olbermann, or Matthews, or Richard Maddow, or Bill Maher or Rosie O’Donnell or ............

boxcar
10-26-2008, 11:46 PM
Box, pardon my ignorance but who exactly determines--- Sounds like another oinking pig declaring who are worthy and who are not. Another SOME are more equal than other moment. Dangerous ground. Dontcha think?

Ignorance is very rarely pardonable, especially in your case.

But since you ask: I think everyone should exercise their own discernment by how they define a true American. I largely define one by how well a person's political ideology passes the U.S. Constitution litmus test. (You remember the Constitution, right? It's The Supreme Law of the Land, in case you don't.) Take NoBam's bosom buddy ' ol Billy Boy Ayers, for example: Is he a legal citizen of the U.S.? Of course, he is. And he is entitled to all the rights, privileges, benefits and protections accorded to him under this document because he qualifies according to the letter of it. But do I personally consider him to be an American according to the spirit of that great document? I will only when pigs learn to take flight! Why would I want to lock arms, join hands or sing Kumbaya with the likes of this self-professed communist, anarchist and domestic terrorist? If this anti-America whackjob were to fall off the planet tomorrow, would I miss him? Would I grieve for him? Not hardly!

Anymore questions or "dangerous ground" you wanna cover, 'cap?

Boxcar

raybo
10-27-2008, 01:07 AM
Definition of an American

You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.

So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone know what an American is, so they would know when they found one:

An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Chamorro, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.

An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.

An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.

An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God-given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need. When the Soviet army overran Afghanistan 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country. As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan.

Americans welcome the best: The best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes. But they also welcome the least. The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These, in fact, are the people who built America. Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001, earning a better life for their families. I've been told that the World trade Center victims were from at least 30 other countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.



<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 14.0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pass this around the World.

There you go! Now what was Tom's question again?

raybo
10-27-2008, 01:12 AM
Someone who is not a citizen of the world. Someone who is proud of their country. Someone who doesn't run it down in foreign countries. Someone who believes in freedom, not dependency. Obama is a strike out.

Obama is an American citizen, not a citizen of the world. He is proud of his country, this country. He hasn't run the US down in foreign countries that I'm aware of, name one. He believes in freedom and not being dependent on other countries.

So, how does he strike out?

raybo
10-27-2008, 01:18 AM
Wake up, hcap.....1984 is a lot more likely under Obama.

I doubt that. And what about the present President? How close have we come to 1984 under his administration? If Obama isn't our next President, from what I've seen and heard of and from GW's party's nominee, it looks like more of the same.

raybo
10-27-2008, 01:32 AM
Ignorance is very rarely pardonable, especially in your case.

But since you ask: I think everyone should exercise their own discernment by how they define a true American. I largely define one by how well a person's political ideology passes the U.S. Constitution litmus test. (You remember the Constitution, right? It's The Supreme Law of the Land, in case you don't.) Take NoBam's bosom buddy ' ol Billy Boy Ayers, for example: Is he a legal citizen of the U.S.? Of course, he is. And he is entitled to all the rights, privileges, benefits and protections accorded to him under this document because he qualifies according to the letter of it. But do I personally consider him to be an American according to the spirit of that great document? I will only when pigs learn to take flight! Why would I want to lock arms, join hands or sing Kumbaya with the likes of this self-professed communist, anarchist and domestic terrorist? If this anti-America whackjob were to fall off the planet tomorrow, would I miss him? Would I grieve for him? Not hardly!

Anymore questions or "dangerous ground" you wanna cover, 'cap?

Boxcar

I don't know Ayer's complete history but, as Americans we have the right to our own beliefs, whether or not those beliefs jive with the Constitution. Now, if you break the law, then you must first be convicted of breaking the law, then if convicted, you must pay the price and serve your sentence, under the "Law". Once you have paid for your crime and do not commit further crimes, you are a law abiding citizen once again.

What we have done in the past is just that, in the past. Now, if you want to keep punishing someone for crimes they have paid the price for, under the "Law", then you, yourself, are not following the "Law".

JustRalph
10-27-2008, 02:49 AM
I don't know Ayer's complete history but, as Americans we have the right to our own beliefs, whether or not those beliefs jive with the Constitution. Now, if you break the law, then you must first be convicted of breaking the law, then if convicted, you must pay the price and serve your sentence, under the "Law". Once you have paid for your crime and do not commit further crimes, you are a law abiding citizen once again.

What we have done in the past is just that, in the past. Now, if you want to keep punishing someone for crimes they have paid the price for, under the "Law", then you, yourself, are not following the "Law".

How in the hell do you apply this logic to Ayers? He was not convicted, tried or paid any price? He is an unapologetic domestic terrorist the likes of Tim Mcvey......... he got off as a technicality....... by his own hands he has participated, along with his wife, in the deaths of fellow Americans and the bombing of our Pentagon. To pal around with this guy is no different than working with Osama Bin Laden............

PaceAdvantage
10-27-2008, 04:26 AM
Pathetic.Pathetic? Really? You think so?

So now investigative journalism is pathetic. I get it. But only when they are investigating Obama and other like-minded far-left ideologues.

I'll have to remember that. When they are investigating Republicans, or when left-wingers are posting rumors about Bush and other Republicans, they are called "patriotic opposition."

Again, I'll remember that the next time I post about Obama and you come back at me and call me names.

raybo
10-27-2008, 06:48 AM
How in the hell do you apply this logic to Ayers? He was not convicted, tried or paid any price? He is an unapologetic domestic terrorist the likes of Tim Mcvey......... he got off as a technicality....... by his own hands he has participated, along with his wife, in the deaths of fellow Americans and the bombing of our Pentagon. To pal around with this guy is no different than working with Osama Bin Laden............

As I said, I don't know his history. I hope you didn't get that info from the press or some politician. If the Feds couldn't convict the guy, they didn't try very hard, or didn't have the evidence to convict. If the Feds want you bad enough, guess what, you're gone.

I don't care who anyone "pals around with", I'm sure you've hung around with people you had no idea were involved in things you would never get involved in, at some time in your life, haven't you? I care about Obama's platform and whether or not it makes sense to me.

Will he make a good President, who'll do what he says he'll do? Only time will tell. That depends on how much support he gets from the Congress. The Congress puts bills into effect, not the President. So, if bills get passed that you don't like then blame Congress. If you don't like a certain President then get involved, recruit support, and vote him/her out of office. As a matter of fact, if you dislike Obama so much, vote for another candidate. That's your right. It's my right to vote for Obama, if I so choose. If I don't like the way the government is going, it's my duty to try to change it, the vote is the only means I have to do so. I certainly don't like the way the present administration has taken away many of our rights over the past 8 years. Obama is the one candidate I feel that is committed to changing what is wrong with the government. Until McCain convinces me he's the better candidate for change, then it's Obama. It's that simple.

JustRalph
10-27-2008, 07:38 AM
As I said, I don't know his history. I hope you didn't get that info from the press or some politician. If the Feds couldn't convict the guy, they didn't try very hard, or didn't have the evidence to convict. If the Feds want you bad enough, guess what, you're gone.

I don't care who anyone "pals around with", I'm sure you've hung around with people you had no idea were involved in things you would never get involved in, at some time in your life, haven't you? I care about Obama's platform and whether or not it makes sense to me.

Will he make a good President, who'll do what he says he'll do? Only time will tell. That depends on how much support he gets from the Congress. The Congress puts bills into effect, not the President. So, if bills get passed that you don't like then blame Congress. If you don't like a certain President then get involved, recruit support, and vote him/her out of office. As a matter of fact, if you dislike Obama so much, vote for another candidate. That's your right. It's my right to vote for Obama, if I so choose. If I don't like the way the government is going, it's my duty to try to change it, the vote is the only means I have to do so. I certainly don't like the way the present administration has taken away many of our rights over the past 8 years. Obama is the one candidate I feel that is committed to changing what is wrong with the government. Until McCain convinces me he's the better candidate for change, then it's Obama. It's that simple.

Boy, you bought it hook line and sinker huh? As to your question:

I'm sure you've hung around with people you had no idea were involved in things you would never get involved in, at some time in your life, haven't you?

You are kidding right? In the context of Obama and Ayers. Obama is aware of what Ayers did and shrugs it off. He is fully aware............

Btw, I pick and choose my friends very carefully. Always have. It serves me well and always has.

boxcar
10-27-2008, 09:37 AM
As I said, I don't know his history.

Another willfully ignorant one! How can you not know the history of this guy when it's plastered all over the internet!?

And since you're so ignorant of his history, why did you even respond to my post, since you obviously didn't have the first clue about that to which you responded? :bang: :bang: :bang:

I hope you didn't get that info from the press or some politician.

I guess you just haven't had the time to watch the Ayers' video that someone sent up to this forum yesterday in which Billy Boy stars and in which he himself confesses what he is? Talk about willful ignorance!

Boxcar

raybo
10-27-2008, 12:42 PM
Another willfully ignorant one! How can you not know the history of this guy when it's plastered all over the internet!?

And since you're so ignorant of his history, why did you even respond to my post, since you obviously didn't have the first clue about that to which you responded? :bang: :bang: :bang:



I guess you just haven't had the time to watch the Ayers' video that someone sent up to this forum yesterday in which Billy Boy stars and in which he himself confesses what he is? Talk about willful ignorance!

Boxcar

Here ya go. This is what I'm talking about.

Lefty
10-27-2008, 05:14 PM
Animal Farm is a favorite book. BTW, Hcap, it was a satire about totalitarians
not capitalists. I think Obama, if elected, will be closer to the former and not the latter.

Lefty
10-27-2008, 05:21 PM
Raybo, there's an old saying: You show me your friends and i'll tell you who you are.
Obama's friends and associates are racist preachers, gangsters, and terrorists. A list that would disqualify him from any job in govt except an elective one.

boxcar
10-27-2008, 07:21 PM
Here ya go. This is what I'm talking about.

What in the world does this have to with the contents of my post #42? Ayers by how own admission is a Marxist. Evidently, there's something about the term "self-professed" that you don't understand, and I suspect that it's the "self" part!

But since that little text attachment talks about NoBam, permit me to go on record as saying that he does not pass my U.S. Constitution litmus test. I consider his political views to be about as anti-American as one can get because those views are too pro-communist. Just for the record...

Also, Lefty raises an excellent point about NoBam's friends and associates. The bible, in fact, addresses this very issue:

1 Cor 15:33
33 Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
NASB

And again:

Prov 13:20
20 He who walks with wise men will be wise,
But the companion of fools will suffer harm.
NASB


And God only knows that NoBam has been in the habit of keeping company with many fools!

Boxcar

Secretariat
10-27-2008, 07:44 PM
How in the hell do you apply this logic to Ayers? He was not convicted, tried or paid any price? He is an unapologetic domestic terrorist the likes of Tim Mcvey......... he got off as a technicality....... by his own hands he has participated, along with his wife, in the deaths of fellow Americans and the bombing of our Pentagon. To pal around with this guy is no different than working with Osama Bin Laden............

He got off because Nixon's Republican Attorney General screwed up. Leave it to the Repubs to try and go around the law.

That said, the man who prosecuted Ayers recently had this to say:

"As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003873017

boxcar
10-27-2008, 07:51 PM
He got off because Nixon's Republican Attorney General screwed up. Leave it to the Repubs to try and go around the law.

That said, the man who prosecuted Ayers recently had this to say:

"As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003873017

The guy is an idiot if he really believes this is what most people are doing. What many of us on this forum are merely doing is pointing out the fact that there has been a strong relationship between these two men for a long time. There's no reason for NoBam to pal around with Ayers unless he shares his communistic ideology. Plain and simple. Same things with Wright. NoBam sat under the preaching of this black racist hate monger for 20 years, which tells me he must have been liking what he was being fed in those "sermons".

Boxcar

PaceAdvantage
10-27-2008, 08:02 PM
Exactly true Box. I would not go to a DailyKos convention or a KKK convention because I 100% do not agree with what these people preach and believe.

The same goes for Obama. If he did not believe or feel comfortable with the beliefs of Ayers and Wright, he would not have sat in Ayers home during his "coming out" party, nor would he have sat in Wright's church for twenty years.

For Obama to try and imply otherwise shows you all you need to know about his character and how he will unleash all sorts of pain on this country if elected.

HUSKER55
10-27-2008, 08:13 PM
GET READY, CAUSE HERE IT COMES

Secretariat
10-27-2008, 08:13 PM
The guy is an idiot if he really believes this is what most people are doing. What many of us on this forum are merely doing is pointing out the fact that there has been a strong relationship between these two men for a long time. There's no reason for NoBam to pal around with Ayers unless he shares his communistic ideology. Plain and simple. Same things with Wright. NoBam sat under the preaching of this black racist hate monger for 20 years, which tells me he must have been liking what he was being fed in those "sermons".

Boxcar

Strong relationship?

Here's Associated Press:

"Her reference to Obama's relationship with William Ayers, a member of the Vietnam-era Weather Underground, was exaggerated at best if not outright false. No evidence shows they were "pals" or even close when they worked on community boards years ago and Ayers hosted a political event for Obama early in his career.

Obama, who was a child when the Weathermen were planting bombs, has denounced Ayers' radical views and actions. "

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93KD6Q00&show_article=1

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"The two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called “somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.”

Snopes:

"The fact remains that they aren't (and never were) particularly close.....the two were not close friends."

THere are thousands of fact checking if you choose to do so ....that belies any "strong relationship" as you say between Ayers and Obama. it's simply typical right wing swift boating. We've seen it played before.

boxcar
10-27-2008, 08:48 PM
Well, the "fact remains", Sec, that you're blinded to those facts. See link below.

And you're as naive as you are blind if you think for a moment that NoBam is above lying about how he really feels about Ayers' terrorist activities. Do you really believe for a nanosecond that he could not publicly denounce them if he hopes to get elected?

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/27/obamas-ayers-problem-deepens/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxoiZdBSi-g

Boxcar

Tom
10-30-2008, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by hcap

Conservative media figures allege Obama's Hawaii trip is about discredited birth-certificate rumors, not his ailing grandmother

......Conservative radio hosts Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh and Obama Nation author Jerome Corsi -- who appeared as a guest on G. Gordon Liddy's radio show -- suggested or asserted that the true purpose of Sen. Barack Obama's current trip to Hawaii is not to visit his ailing grandmother, as Obama claims, but rather to address rumors -- widely debunked -- that Obama has failed to produce a valid U.S. birth certificate.


Pathetic.


Strange, Barry goes to Hawaii to visit his sick Gramma, and suddenly, his birth record is sealed by the Island Governor. Very strange. Why seal it? What is to hide? Was he born a girl, did he had a sex change? Is that the change he is talking about?

Since he refuses to provide certain basic documents such a BC, one has to wonder. One must connect the dots. Was he even born? Is he a lab experiment gone horribly wrong? Does his Gramma have a large "pod" in her basement that he had to hid? Is there a death certificate to go with the birth cert? Is he really a vodoo zombie? Perhaps there is a connection to HBO's First Blood....is he a vampire? That would explain the not wearing his flag pin - no vamp likes sharp objects near his heart!

When you hide simple stuff, you just invite speculation.

toetoe
10-30-2008, 03:42 PM
I could find no birthplace other than West Branch, a hamlet in Iowa, for Mistah Hoovah. :confused:

prospector
10-30-2008, 03:44 PM
"it's simply typical right wing swift boating. We've seen it played before."

couldn't agree more...
swift boaters told the truth...i supported them 100% with my money and time..the Vets came thru and threw out kerry..come on Vets, obama is no friend of the Vets..
Semper Fi and obama bye bye..

hcap
10-30-2008, 07:43 PM
Strange, Barry goes to Hawaii to visit his sick Gramma, and suddenly, his birth record is sealed by the Island Governor. Very strange. Why seal it? What is to hide? Was he born a girl, did he had a sex change? Is that the change he is talking about?

Since he refuses to provide certain basic documents such a BC, one has to wonder. One must connect the dots. Was he even born? Is he a lab experiment gone horribly wrong? Does his Gramma have a large "pod" in her basement that he had to hid? Is there a death certificate to go with the birth cert? Is he really a vodoo zombie? Perhaps there is a connection to HBO's First Blood....is he a vampire? That would explain the not wearing his flag pin - no vamp likes sharp objects near his heart!

When you hide simple stuff, you just invite speculation.He was born an Orangutan. Couldn't face the cold harsh reality, and before he became a community organizer had a SPECIES Change operation. Surreptitiously flew to Kenya and then returned and enrolled in Harvard. Stayed in his room until they could remove the bandages. However a clever right wing investigative blog went thru' his garbage and found an excessively large number of banana peels carefully triple bagged as not to draw undo suspicion.

Check Drudge and Hannity for breaking news.

Rookies
10-30-2008, 07:51 PM
Check Drudge and Hannity for breaking news.

When he isn't getting so riled up to being on the edge of a stroke, even Flushed Oxy-cotin Windbag has dropped this deep space plot from the " Get a Brain MorAns " crowd ! :lol:

raybo
10-30-2008, 08:14 PM
What in the world does this have to with the contents of my post #42? Ayers by how own admission is a Marxist. Evidently, there's something about the term "self-professed" that you don't understand, and I suspect that it's the "self" part!

But since that little text attachment talks about NoBam, permit me to go on record as saying that he does not pass my U.S. Constitution litmus test. I consider his political views to be about as anti-American as one can get because those views are too pro-communist. Just for the record...

Also, Lefty raises an excellent point about NoBam's friends and associates. The bible, in fact, addresses this very issue:

1 Cor 15:33
33 Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
NASB

And again:

Prov 13:20
20 He who walks with wise men will be wise,
But the companion of fools will suffer harm.
NASB


And God only knows that NoBam has been in the habit of keeping company with many fools!

Boxcar

Your personal "litmus test" is just that, yours. You have the right to it, under the Constitution. However, I have the right to have a different "litmus test", under the same Constitution. Mine is that as long as a person is qualified to be President, then he has the right to run and be elected, or not. Since you cannot prove that Mr. Obama is not a true American citizen and you cannot prove that he shares, not the views (that's our right as Americans), but the unlawful actions of someone like Ayers performed years and years ago, you are just another talking mouth who wants the status quo to continue, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and more and more of our Constitutional rights disappear.

Oh, and BTW, quoting your Bible means nothing to anyone who doesn't believe in it. So, are you assuming that everyone here is a Christian? Christians only represent 1/4 to 1/3 of the world's population and only 76% of the United States's population, not 100% as you apparently think. Now, go ahead and call me a Muslim, I opened the door for you. The fact is, if I choose to be Muslim or any other religion, that is my right as an American. Go ahead, show more of your biased character.

dav4463
10-30-2008, 08:26 PM
Strong relationship?

Here's Associated Press:

"Her reference to Obama's relationship with William Ayers, a member of the Vietnam-era Weather Underground, was exaggerated at best if not outright false. No evidence shows they were "pals" or even close when they worked on community boards years ago and Ayers hosted a political event for Obama early in his career.

Obama, who was a child when the Weathermen were planting bombs, has denounced Ayers' radical views and actions. "

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93KD6Q00&show_article=1

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"The two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called “somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.”

Snopes:

"The fact remains that they aren't (and never were) particularly close.....the two were not close friends."

THere are thousands of fact checking if you choose to do so ....that belies any "strong relationship" as you say between Ayers and Obama. it's simply typical right wing swift boating. We've seen it played before.



I wouldn't put much stock in Snopes if this email I received recently is true:


Frankly folks, this note does not surprise me at all. I have felt that
this website is suspect for the truth for a long time. /


A different slant on Snopes./


Well well, lookie, lookie...I knew some things they were saying seemed out
of whack with the facts...Beginning to understand why now...Sooooooo be
careful when you go there...

I have suspected some problems with Snopes for some time now, but I have
only caught them in half-truths. If there is any subjectivity, they do an
immediate full left rudder.

Truth or fiction.com is the better source for verification, in my opinion.

I have recently discovered that Snopes.com is owned by a flaming liberal
and this man is in the tank for Obama. There are many things they have
listed on their site as a hoax and yet you can go to Youtube yourself and
find the video of Obama actually saying these things. So you see, you
cannot and should not trust Snopes.com....ever for anything that remotely
resembles truth! I don't even trust them to tell me if email chains are
hoaxes anymore.

A few conservative speakers on Myspace told me about snopes.com a few
months ago and I took it upon myself to do a little research to find out
if it was true. Well, I found out for myself that it is true. This
website is backing Obama and is covering up for him. They will say
anything that makes him look bad is a hoax and they also tell lies on the
other side about McCain and Palin.

Anyway just FYI please don't use Snopes.com anymore for fact checking and
make your friends aware of their political leanings as well. Many people
still think Snopes.com is neutral and they can be trusted as factual. We
need to make sure everyone is aware that that is a hoax in itself.

Here's what I have found:

Snopes was created in 1995 by Barbara and David Mikkelson, a California
couple who met on the alt.folklore.urban newsgroup. The Mikkelsons also
founded the San Fernando Valley Folklore Society, and were credited as the
owners of the site until 2005. Barbara now works on the site full time,
while David, a programmer, works on the site part time.
While I can't prove it, I too am somewhat suspect of their leftward bent
given their take (or lack thereof) on several Obama stories. An example
is their take on the Obama/Ayers connection as opposed to
truthorfiction.com's take on the same subject. Snopes tends to minimize
the connection categorizing the rumor as a "Partial Truth" while
truthorfiction does not downplay the connection at all, calling it a
"Truth", and in fact references a CNN(surprise, surprise) expose of the
two, as well as a Wall Street Journal article about their connection.
Snopes not only does not reference either source cited above, but instead
lists a quote from an Obama spokesman as it's main source(what a spin),
leaving one to believe they are mere acquaintances.
http://www.snopes..com/politics/obama/ayers.asp
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-ayers.htm.

Here's another comparison of Snopes vrs. Truthorfiction's treatment of the
email that has gone out regarding "Obama's 50 lies". Notice that Snopes
often adds editorial comments favoring Obama on unproven statements, or
even on proven ones where they say he is "taken out of context".

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp

http://www..truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-lies.htm

Secretariat
10-30-2008, 08:40 PM
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

OTM Al
10-30-2008, 11:19 PM
I find the author of the piece deriding Snopes to be a little suspect. A quick check of the site shows that they debunked all the rumors about Ms. Palin except for the one that there is no evidence to confirm or deny that they can find. Both would seem to be good resources though on what is true and what is false.

Lefty
10-30-2008, 11:44 PM
I didn't think much of this story when i heard it. But, the fact that his birth records have been sealed is velly suspicious, eh what? Sumpin's funny here and ain't laughin'

raybo
10-31-2008, 06:44 AM
I didn't think much of this story when i heard it. But, the fact that his birth records have been sealed is velly suspicious, eh what? Sumpin's funny here and ain't laughin'

The reason his birth records have been sealed is because a person's birth record is only made available to the birth person, and members of his family. The statute allowing the sealing of birth records was inacted to prevent identity theft. If in fact the State of Hawaii has sealed his birth records then he must have birth records in the state of Hawaii. Thus, he must have been born in the state of Hawaii, agreed? What's the big deal now?

Ya'll can go looking for something else to bash him over. Next time try to find something that can be proven.

Tom
10-31-2008, 07:56 AM
Ya'll can go looking for something else to bash him over. Next time try to find something that can be proven.

That is all we are asking - that the man who is asking us to make him the most powerful and influential man the world to offer basic proof that he meets rather loose requirements for the job, something million of people do every day. This goes directly his lack of character...what will he refuse to tell us once in office? The man has no credibility.

raybo
10-31-2008, 12:01 PM
That is all we are asking - that the man who is asking us to make him the most powerful and influential man the world to offer basic proof that he meets rather loose requirements for the job, something million of people do every day. This goes directly his lack of character...what will he refuse to tell us once in office? The man has no credibility.

Why would the Governor of Hawaii seal his birth records if Hawaii doesn't have any birth records for him? What do you want? If someone came up to you and said I want your original birth record before I give you the opportunity to apply for a job, what would you do? Would you get him the original or send him a legal copy of it?

Why hasn't anyone asked McCain for his original birth certificate? Is it because he's white and doesn't have a name of Arabic origin? Jeez, I wouldn't respond to something as obviously insulting and demeaning as that either, especially when everyone knows that the Republicans are desperate to find some loophole that they can sink their teeth into, because they darn sure can't defeat him with a clean campaign. All this stuff is pure rubbish and you people should be ashamed to stoop that low. The man is a legal, Presidentially qualified, citizen of the United States, PERIOD! But, if you want to keep bashing him, hoping to sway voters from voting their own mind, then go ahead, it won't make any difference anyway. He'll either get elected or not, it's that simple. I've seen some pretty bad mud slinging in my day but this takes the cake.

BTW, the Governor of Hawaii is Republican.

Tom
10-31-2008, 12:47 PM
They asked McCain, they sued him for it, they made a big deal in the press bout it. Why not Obama? Because he is black and pre-ordained by the press.
Stooping low, for asking for simple common place identification and proof of citizenship for the highest office in the land? How dare we suggest that people prove what they say. Why doesn't HUSSEIN produce it? Maybe he can't read? :D

Remember the video of the 9-11 death pilots in Boston, clearly setting off the alarms, then getting waved on past security, only to kill thousands of people?
The guard, I guess, was stooping low for daring to question them.

The way it works is simple - we have requirement, you prove you meet them.
Any damned fool can produce a BC and millions do every day. This alleged citizen, non-American, terrorist pal has a lot of people, a lot of big foreign money, covering his dumb-ass. Why? I have my theory......

Bubba X
10-31-2008, 12:58 PM
oh boy. A HUSSEIN reference. That officially makes it a good day.

OTM Al
10-31-2008, 01:35 PM
End of issue

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20081025_Judge_rejects_Montco_lawyer_s_bid_to_have _Obama_removed_from_ballot.html

PaceAdvantage
10-31-2008, 01:42 PM
Why hasn't anyone asked McCain for his original birth certificate? Is it because he's white and doesn't have a name of Arabic origin?Once again, the only one bringing up race is someone opposed to finding out the truth.

The fact as I've stated multiple times is that someone HAS ASKED and SUED FOR McCain's birth certificate. I've linked to the Washington Post article written in May multiple times.

So, you are incorrect when you state that nobody has asked McCain for his original birth certificate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224.html

One person who disagrees with that premise is New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is "not a natural born citizen." In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain's birth certificate.

raybo
10-31-2008, 02:23 PM
Once again, the only one bringing up race is someone opposed to finding out the truth.

The fact as I've stated multiple times is that someone HAS ASKED and SUED FOR McCain's birth certificate. I've linked to the Washington Post article written in May multiple times.

So, you are incorrect when you state that nobody has asked McCain for his original birth certificate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224.html

Ok, then sue him for it. That's the only way I'd respond if I were in Mr. Obama's situation.

And the "race" reference I made is only because I can't think of any other reason why people are so vehement in their opposition to him running for President. You don't even want people to have the opportunity to vote, finally, for someone who has expressed determination to try to change what is wrong with this country. The last time we had that opportunity was with Ross Perot, whom I voted for even though the press convinced most Perot voters that he no longer could win because he re-entered the race after withdrawing.

A valid copy of his birth certificate has been produced. Isn't that enough? The original is obviously in Hawaii, sealed by the Republican Governor, I suspect to add more heat to the fire.

Tom
10-31-2008, 02:29 PM
Did Dan Rather produce the copy?:lol:

PaceAdvantage
10-31-2008, 02:38 PM
And the "race" reference I made is only because I can't think of any other reason why people are so vehement in their opposition to him running for President. You don't even want people to have the opportunity to vote, finally, for someone who has expressed determination to try to change what is wrong with this country.All I want is EQUAL treatment of the candidates by the press. Equal investigation, equal scrutiny of personal records. That's not what we've gotten this time around.

I disagree vehemently with Obama's politics, not his skin color. If Colin Powell were running (even after his Obama endorsement), I would vote for him every single time over any white liberal Democrat the other side might find to run against him.

This has nothing to do about color, at least for me.

raybo
10-31-2008, 03:44 PM
All I want is EQUAL treatment of the candidates by the press. Equal investigation, equal scrutiny of personal records. That's not what we've gotten this time around.

I disagree vehemently with Obama's politics, not his skin color. If Colin Powell were running (even after his Obama endorsement), I would vote for him every single time over any white liberal Democrat the other side might find to run against him.

This has nothing to do about color, at least for me.

If you're expecting "equal treatment" of the candidates by the press, I'm afraid you're in for a shock. Since when has the press ever given candidates equal treatment? The press sells information, not equality.

And, whether or not you "disagree vehemently with" Mr. "Obama's politics" is your right, and mine and every other citizen in this country. My "skin color" reference was not aimed personally at you, it was aimed at all the people who want Mr. Obama removed from consideration for President. A valid copy of his birth certificate has been produced. Until an official court of law, in this country, says it is not valid then it's valid. That's fact, now what will the Republicans do next? Let's get to the next rumor before it's too late to run him off the ballot.

Tom
10-31-2008, 03:58 PM
My understanding is that only original copies of BCs are valid. I had to purchase multiple ORIGINALs from the country when I closed my parents estate. No copies were allowed.


Back to square one. :lol:

PaceAdvantage
10-31-2008, 04:06 PM
My understanding is that only original copies of BCs are valid. I had to purchase multiple ORIGINALs from the country when I closed my parents estate. No copies were allowed.


Back to square one. :lol:Tom, a web image is good enough for them.

Imagine if Bush relied on a web image for some of the records the press demanded from him the past eight years? Or McCain relied on some web images to show the press he is cancer free?

What a laugh riot this has become.

Boris
10-31-2008, 05:11 PM
If you're expecting "equal treatment" of the candidates by the press, I'm afraid you're in for a shock. Since when has the press ever given candidates equal treatment? The press sells information, not equality.

And, whether or not you "disagree vehemently with" Mr. "Obama's politics" is your right, and mine and every other citizen in this country. My "skin color" reference was not aimed personally at you, it was aimed at all the people who want Mr. Obama removed from consideration for President. A valid copy of his birth certificate has been produced. Until an official court of law, in this country, says it is not valid then it's valid. That's fact, now what will the Republicans do next? Let's get to the next rumor before it's too late to run him off the ballot.

Cozy world of yours. If he loses, its because of race, but if he wins, its because of his ideas. Explain to me how being against his Success Tax can be because of his race?

boxcar
10-31-2008, 05:39 PM
Why would the Governor of Hawaii seal his birth records if Hawaii doesn't have any birth records for him? What do you want? If someone came up to you and said I want your original birth record before I give you the opportunity to apply for a job, what would you do? Would you get him the original or send him a legal copy of it?

Why hasn't anyone asked McCain for his original birth certificate? Is it because he's white and doesn't have a name of Arabic origin? Jeez,

Two reasons: Because we now know more about Joe the Plumber than we do about NoBam and Joe isn't running for any elected office. Even Tom Brokaw (no friend of Conservatives) conceded this point about NoBam very recently.)

Secondly, because McCain served honorably in the Navy and I believe you need to provide a valid copy of your birth certificate showing origin of birth to get in. (JR, is this right?). Conversely, NoBam was merely a "community organizer") for which the only requirement is that one needs to know how to agitate and sow the seeds of discord.

Boxcar

PaceAdvantage
10-31-2008, 06:07 PM
Very interesting contrast. Someone wanted to get the dirt on Joe The Plumber, so they went ahead and accessed supposedly private records that weren't supposed to be easily accessible.

All Berg wants to do is see a valid, official hard copy of Obama's birth certificate, and he has to jump through hoops, which he has, only to get shot down by a judge.

raybo
10-31-2008, 06:30 PM
My understanding is that only original copies of BCs are valid. I had to purchase multiple ORIGINALs from the country when I closed my parents estate. No copies were allowed.


Back to square one. :lol:

Your understanding is wrong.

raybo
10-31-2008, 06:34 PM
Cozy world of yours. If he loses, its because of race, but if he wins, its because of his ideas. Explain to me how being against his Success Tax can be because of his race?

If he loses it will be because his supporters weren't didn't have as many votes as the opposition. At least they got to vote for him, unlike what you people want, you want them to not even have the shot to vote for him.

If he wins, it will be because he had enough support from the voters to win, plain and simple.

All I want is for this pre-election crap to be settled by an election.

raybo
10-31-2008, 06:37 PM
Very interesting contrast. Someone wanted to get the dirt on Joe The Plumber, so they went ahead and accessed supposedly private records that weren't supposed to be easily accessible.

All Berg wants to do is see a valid, official hard copy of Obama's birth certificate, and he has to jump through hoops, which he has, only to get shot down by a judge.

I suppose the judge was a devout, to the point of corrupting the law, Obama supporter (?). His judgement can be appealed, get after it.

Tom
10-31-2008, 08:21 PM
Of course if he wins it could not be because of race - people voting for him only because he is black and offering hand outs.
You are pathetic.

JustRalph
10-31-2008, 08:25 PM
McCain served honorably in the Navy and I believe you need to provide a valid copy of your birth certificate showing origin of birth to get in. (JR, is this right?). Boxcar

I had to have one, but I joined in 1981.........not sure what the hell they do now............or before............

I believe McCain was born in a Military Hospital in the Panama Canal Zone. His Dad was in the Navy at the time. Easy enough to prove that one.

Tom
10-31-2008, 08:40 PM
McCain's word is good enough for me. ;)

hcap
10-31-2008, 10:11 PM
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirthallinone.php

From the office of Governor Lingle.

Aloha,

Thank you for emailing Governor Linda Lingle's office. A recent article in WorldNetDaily.com (October 26, 2008) claiming that Hawai‘i Governor Linda Lingle sealed Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate is false.

Under Hawai‘i's state law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18), copies of vital records may only be released to those who have a tangible relationship to the person whose record is being sought. Neither the Governor's office, nor any other office in the State of Hawai'i, can provide information concerning birth certificates, or produce birth certificates, to anyone except those who are listed in the law governing vital statistics records.

Vital statistics records, such as birth certificates, are protected by strict confidentiality requirements. Specifically, pursuant to section 338-18, Hawai‘i Revised Statutes (HRS), the Department of Health, which maintains these records, may not allow the inspection of a birth certificate, or issue a certified copy of a birth certificate, or disclose any information contained in a birth certificate, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record:

(a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:

(1) The registrant;

(2) The spouse of the registrant;

(3) A parent of the registrant;

(4) A descendant of the registrant;

(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;

(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;

(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;

(8) A personal representative of the registrant's estate;

(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;

(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child's natural or legal parents;

(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;

(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and

(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.

You can find the complete statute at http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm

Mahalo,

Office of Governor Lingle

Governor Lingle's office then followed up with ...
"The state registrar of the Department of Health's vital statistics record office can verify Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate."



It should be pointed out that contrary to the claims made in some of the spammed emails, Governor Linda Lingle is a REPUBLICAN, not a Democrat. It is difficult to imagine Lingle protecting Obama to the detriment of her own party's candidate.

Tom
11-01-2008, 10:45 AM
Your understanding is wrong.

No, it is not - copies were not permitted. I had to purchase multiple "originals at $10 a piece. When you need official docs, copies do not cut it.

Tom
11-01-2008, 10:47 AM
hcap, much ado about nothing. Nothing in your post applies. It is the responsibility of the person to provide documented proof of claims made, in this case, his citizenship. No one is trying to access his records, but some records area there to be used for things like this.

So hcap, how do you justify the dems getting into Joe the Plumber's records for totally illegal reasons? Perhaps you concern is in the wrong area?
Obama is showing just more of his duplicity and dis-regard for the law.

BTW, hcap.....I still haven't seen YOUR birth certificate.
You may be an illegal poster here.

OTM Al
11-01-2008, 12:44 PM
Tom, your terminology is a bit off. Having had to do the same thing, what you got was official copies. This is exactly what was posted for Mr. Obama. What isn't accepted is photocopies. These official copies generally bear no resemblance to a true original certificate, which are (in my case anyway)often hand written. Not sure if my original certificate even exists anymore, but getting official copies is not a problem should I need them.

Greyfox
11-01-2008, 12:51 PM
Breaking News:

The Governor of California has uncovered proof that citizen
Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger was actually born in Sacramento California.
Mr. Schwarzenegger will be eligible to run for the President of the United States in 2012. ;)

Tom
11-01-2008, 02:46 PM
Tom, your terminology is a bit off. Having had to do the same thing, what you got was official copies. This is exactly what was posted for Mr. Obama. What isn't accepted is photocopies. These official copies generally bear no resemblance to a true original certificate, which are (in my case anyway)often hand written. Not sure if my original certificate even exists anymore, but getting official copies is not a problem should I need them.

OK, whatever. Like you say, BHO should have no problem producing one.

OTM Al
11-01-2008, 04:44 PM
That's what I'm saying. He did.

Tom
11-01-2008, 05:23 PM
hcap?

hcap
11-01-2008, 06:46 PM
From the page of the link.
He has released it.
The Republican governor of Hawaii has attested to it

The certificate

image removed because it blows out the page....if you want the image back up, reduce its size. Or, better yet, go to the link hcap talks about and see the image for yourself.

hcap
11-01-2008, 06:49 PM
Also from the same page....

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirthallinone.php

"There is more evidence that backs up the Birth Certificate.
Hawaii has two major newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin.
BOTH newspapers include birth announcements, and pages found in the archives of BOTH newspapers record the August 4th, 1961 birth of Barack Obama."

Tom
11-01-2008, 07:09 PM
Sorry, hcap, a politician and two news rags are not acceptable evidence.
Got anything with any integrity? :cool:

hcap
11-01-2008, 07:33 PM
You mean like your endless slew of innuendo, speculation and slurs you babble?
There is nothing wrong with the evidence I posted, or for that matter the fact that the case was dismissed.

hcap
11-01-2008, 07:43 PM
Don't worry Tom , both you and Ralph can work for drudge after the 4th.
And just to help the awful tasting medicine go down a bit easier :jump:
Read it and weap.......

"This is the first time since Gallup began estimating likely voters in early October that there is no difference between Gallup's two likely voter models. Obama's lead of 52% to 42% using Gallup's traditional estimate of likely voting criteria takes into account past voting as well as current intentions. Obama's identical lead using the expanded model takes into account only current voting intentions.

Both of these likely voter estimates in turn are almost identical to Gallup's 52% to 41% registered voter estimate.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/npjelacg3kotj222dcubgw.gif

hcap
11-01-2008, 08:54 PM
Ok. Enough is enough

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html?rss=hon&psp=news

Obama's Birth Certificate Verified By State
Health Department Receives Multiple Requests For Copies

HONOLULU -- The state's Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.

The state has received multiple requests for a copy of Obama's birth certificate. State law does not allow officials to release the birth certificate of a person to someone outside of the family.

There were rumors that Obama was born in Kenya, where his father is from. The Constitution requires that the president be a natural born citizen of the U.S.

While many sites and news organizations have released copies provided by the Obama campaign, the rumors have persisted.

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record," DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.

Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.

Fukino said that no state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently from any other.

Some Obama critics claim he was not born in the United States.

Multiple lawsuits were filed to try and force Obama to provide proof of citizenship. Earlier Friday, a southwest Ohio magistrate rejected a challenge to Obama's U.S. citizenship. Judges in Seattle and Philadelphia recently dismissed similar suits.

Tom
11-01-2008, 10:33 PM
I still think he is French.

JustRalph
11-02-2008, 01:39 AM
I still think he is French.

merci, vous avez raison

Garder poster, HCAP est traîné par son menton !

raybo
11-02-2008, 05:24 AM
Of course if he wins it could not be because of race - people voting for him only because he is black and offering hand outs.
You are pathetic.

I'm what? I know you're not calling me names now, like some little kid. Tom, I thought you had more sense than that.

raybo
11-02-2008, 05:27 AM
McCain's word is good enough for me. ;)

Ok, well Mr. Obama's word is good enough for me.

raybo
11-02-2008, 05:55 AM
Well done, hcap, if what you have presented isn't enough to prove that the state of Hawaii does, indeed, have Mr. Obama's birth certificate then nothing, not even Mr. Obama himself, carrying the original one and placing it in their hands in person will stop their attacks. As I said before, they are desperate and want him off the ballot because they know McCain can't defeat him in a legal and fair democratic election.

As far as I'm concerned this discussion, about whether or not he is a "natural born citizen of the United States", is ended.

Also, as I said before, let's get to the next rumor quickly before it's too late to stop the citizens of the USA from voting for the candidate of their choice.

Face it gentlemen and ladies, The Republican party has failed to nominate a candidate with the ability to win the election. And that party's nominee's selection of a Vice Presidential nominee was another failure.

As I said earlier, I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican, I vote for the candidate, not the party. If the Republican party had nominated someone who I believe would try to make the changes this country needs in order to redirect our future back in the direction the founding fathers established in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and had selected a VP nominee with the same values, I might be voting for them Tuesday, instead of Mr. Obama and Mr. Biden. Unfortunately that didn't happen.

hcap
11-02-2008, 06:20 AM
hcap, if what you have presented isn't enough to prove that the state of Hawaii does, indeed, have Mr. Obama's birth certificate then nothing, not even Mr. Obama himself, carrying the original one and placing it in their hands in person will stop their attacks. As I said before, they are desperate and want him off the ballot because they know McCain can't defeat him in a legal and fair democratic election.Desperate is the operative word. I particularly like the fundamentalists here hinting that Obama is the anti-Christ.

Looks like it will be a blowout election for Obama. I think the crazies here will carry on their attacks in the tradition of Rush Limpbag. Tom, Ralph and ArlJim and others are already raring to go postal big time.

I have been arguing with these "gentlemen" for years that their political world-view is no longer that of this country, or for that matter the rest of the world. They had 8 years to try out their theories on us. The guinea pigs.

What is the definition of insanity?

"doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

Secretariat
11-02-2008, 01:03 PM
Ok. Enough is enough

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html?rss=hon&psp=news

Obama's Birth Certificate Verified By State
Health Department Receives Multiple Requests For Copies

HONOLULU -- The state's Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.

The state has received multiple requests for a copy of Obama's birth certificate. State law does not allow officials to release the birth certificate of a person to someone outside of the family.

There were rumors that Obama was born in Kenya, where his father is from. The Constitution requires that the president be a natural born citizen of the U.S.

While many sites and news organizations have released copies provided by the Obama campaign, the rumors have persisted.

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record," DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.

Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.

Fukino said that no state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently from any other.

Some Obama critics claim he was not born in the United States.

Multiple lawsuits were filed to try and force Obama to provide proof of citizenship. Earlier Friday, a southwest Ohio magistrate rejected a challenge to Obama's U.S. citizenship. Judges in Seattle and Philadelphia recently dismissed similar suits.

Go God Hcap! Don't post facts here. It interferes with what they're hearing from Limpballs.

Tom
11-02-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm what? I know you're not calling me names now, like some little kid. Tom, I thought you had more sense than that.

No,actually, that is not calling a name. It is classifying you based on your statement that the only way Obama loses is racism. A very ignorant statement.

THIS is name calling, from Sec, who we all know has no sense at all.

Go God Hcap! Don't post facts here. It interferes with what they're hearing from Limpballs.

raybo
11-02-2008, 02:42 PM
No,actually, that is not calling a name. It is classifying you based on your statement that the only way Obama loses is racism. A very ignorant statement.

This is what I posted:

If he loses it will be because his supporters weren't didn't have as many votes as the opposition. At least they got to vote for him, unlike what you people want, you want them to not even have the shot to vote for him.

If he wins, it will be because he had enough support from the voters to win, plain and simple.

All I want is for this pre-election crap to be settled by an election.

Do you see "racism" in there anywhere?

Tom
11-02-2008, 05:37 PM
Re-reading your post, I don't think that is the one I was referring to. I am sure the statement said something like if he loses, it will be because white people wouldn't vote for him. Maybe it was someone else's, I was reading a lot of threads at that time, or maybe i read it wrong. But that is what my comment was based on. Since I don't see it anymore, I am going to say I mis-read it and apologize. I honestly thought that was what you said. I will be more careful, and quote in the future, when a post pisses me off like I thought that one did. My bad.

PaceAdvantage
11-02-2008, 09:29 PM
There's something you never see from the lefty posters on this board. An apology. That's because the left is never wrong.

PaceAdvantage
11-02-2008, 09:31 PM
Looks like it will be a blowout election for Obama.You should probably wait until the actual election before you get too arrogant. Obama is an overhyped 3yo colt who just ran a big Beyer in some Derby prep if you ask me. Polls have been wrong before. In this biased media climate, how in the world can we trust even half of these polls?

Hopefully, you will be eating these words Tuesday night. Oh how I would love to come onto off-topic shortly after midnight Wednesday morning and post a simple little post that I have waiting just for you if Obama somehow fails to win.

It will be a treat...I promise...I so hope I get to use it....

hcap
11-02-2008, 09:42 PM
You should probably wait until the actual election before you get too arrogant. Obama is an overhyped 3yo colt who just ran a big Beyer in some Derby prep if you ask me. Polls have been wrong before. In this biased media climate, how in the world can we trust even half of these polls?

Hopefully, you will be eating these words Tuesday night. Oh how I would love to come onto off-topic shortly after midnight Wednesday morning and post a simple little post that I have waiting just for you if Obama somehow fails to win.

It will be a treat...I promise...I so hope I get to use it....Good luck with that. Oh yeah one word......

Fred!

Boris
11-02-2008, 10:26 PM
Re-reading your post, I don't think that is the one I was referring to. I am sure the statement said something like if he loses, it will be because white people wouldn't vote for him. Maybe it was someone else's, I was reading a lot of threads at that time, or maybe i read it wrong. But that is what my comment was based on. Since I don't see it anymore, I am going to say I mis-read it and apologize. I honestly thought that was what you said. I will be more careful, and quote in the future, when a post pisses me off like I thought that one did. My bad.

From post #86, Rainmanbo posted:
And the "race" reference I made is only because I can't think of any other reason why people are so vehement in their opposition to him running for President. You don't even want people to have the opportunity to vote, finally, for someone who has expressed determination to try to change what is wrong with this country. The last time we had that opportunity was with Ross Perot, whom I voted for even though the press convinced most Perot voters that he no longer could win because he re-entered the race after withdrawing.

I think Tom had you right.

magwell
11-02-2008, 10:39 PM
B.O. now 9-1 :(

PaceAdvantage
11-02-2008, 10:42 PM
B.O. now 9-1 :(What are you talking about? 9-1? On Obama? What am I missing?

HUSKER55
11-02-2008, 11:35 PM
How much did you wager and where?

magwell
11-03-2008, 12:30 AM
What are you talking about? 9-1? On Obama? What am I missing? if you want BO you lay 1100 to win 100 if you want Mc you bet 100 to win 800 that makes him 9-1

raybo
11-03-2008, 07:10 AM
From post #86, Rainmanbo posted:


I think Tom had you right.

And the "race" reference I made is only because I can't think of any other reason why people are so vehement in their opposition to him running for President. You don't even want people to have the opportunity to vote, finally, for someone who has expressed determination to try to change what is wrong with this country. The last time we had that opportunity was with Ross Perot, whom I voted for even though the press convinced most Perot voters that he no longer could win because he re-entered the race after withdrawing.

A valid copy of his birth certificate has been produced. Isn't that enough? The original is obviously in Hawaii, sealed by the Republican Governor, I suspect to add more heat to the fire.

This is my post and I clarified why I even mentioned a race issue. It is a true statement saying that race is the only reason I can see that is causing such vehement opposition, such that the opposition doesn't even want the American people to have the opportunity to vote their minds. What other reason is there that would cause people to try to usurp our right to freedom of choice concerning who we nominate and vote for?

HUSKER55
11-03-2008, 09:09 AM
how about the Peter Pan Theory and Never Never Land


Picture Obama as a fairy :D

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 11:25 AM
if you want BO you lay 1100 to win 100 if you want Mc you bet 100 to win 800 that makes him 9-1Yes, but you said BO was 9-1. That's what had me confused. Isn't it more appropriate to say McCain is 9-1?

boxcar
11-03-2008, 11:34 AM
What other reason is there that would cause people to try to usurp our right to freedom of choice concerning who we nominate and vote for?

Don't you want your choices of nominees to qualify according to the law? It's racist to check the facts out about someone whom we know so little, and about someone who has so many friends and associates who are anti-American, and about someone who has said that the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed" -- the very Constitution that he must swear to uphold if he gets elected!?

Boxcar

magwell
11-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Yes, but you said BO was 9-1. That's what had me confused. Isn't it more appropriate to say McCain is 9-1? But BO is the favorite ....line now 7-1 call it mc underdog if you want, still not looking good but you never know till its over.

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 11:55 AM
But BO is the favorite ....line now 7-1 call it mc underdog if you want, still not looking good but you never know till its over.I'm not much of a sports bettor, so maybe I'm confusing the terminology...

Tom
11-03-2008, 11:59 AM
3-2 he's not a citizen.






:D

Bubba X
11-03-2008, 12:31 PM
Fear not, citizens. We will all be all right. Chairman Obama will see to it!

raybo
11-03-2008, 01:05 PM
Don't you want your choices of nominees to qualify according to the law? It's racist to check the facts out about someone whom we know so little, and about someone who has so many friends and associates who are anti-American, and about someone who has said that the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed" -- the very Constitution that he must swear to uphold if he gets elected!?

Boxcar

Well gosh, you guys were posting things like they were fact. Why would you need to post them as fact and then say:

"It's racist to check the facts out about someone whom we know so little, and about someone who has so many friends and associates who are anti-American, and about someone who has said that the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed" -- the very Constitution that he must swear to uphold if he gets elected!?"

Why do you post as if it's fact and then say you're only checking out the facts? Check it out, get the true facts, then post it.

Oh BTW, post the link to the statement he made saying the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed", I'd like everyone here to see that, the whole context please.

boxcar
11-03-2008, 01:55 PM
Well gosh, you guys were posting things like they were fact. Why would you need to post them as fact and then say:

"It's racist to check the facts out about someone whom we know so little, and about someone who has so many friends and associates who are anti-American, and about someone who has said that the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed" -- the very Constitution that he must swear to uphold if he gets elected!?"

Why do you post as if it's fact and then say you're only checking out the facts? Check it out, get the true facts, then post it.

Oh BTW, post the link to the statement he made saying the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed", I'd like everyone here to see that, the whole context please.


Truly, you're confusing me with someone else. I, among others, raised the question about his citizenship but I never stated emphatically that he wasn't one. So, if it's racist of me to raise the question, then so be it and feel free to chant your racist mantras.

Here is one quote about his take on the U.S. Constitution:

But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf.

While he doesn't explicitly state that it's "fundamentally flawed" -- nonetheless he truly implied it. He essentially laments the fact that the Constitution was framed in such a way to severely limit the powers of the State, that is to say that it's essentially a "charter of negative liberties" -- telling Government what it can't do. He actually recognizes and acknowledges this fact. He believes that the Law of the Land should have explicated what the State must do "for" The People -- in other words, the Constitution should have conferred more power to the State so that it would be able to enact what it thinks it must do, and consequently confer less power to The People.

I've stated elsewhere on this forum not too long ago that I do believe that Obama is about as anti-American as they come. And it's not because of his skin color -- but because of his Marxist-like ideology which he knows, has conceded and has lamented isn't supported in the Constitution. Therefore, this guy fails my personal Constitution litmus test for who is a true American according to spirit of this all-important document. This is the kinda guy who would dearly love to make fundamentally important changes to this document. And I believe this certainly would be the foremost "change" he would try to get Congress and/or the Supreme Court to enact anyway he could. And this kind of change would not be good for America.

Below is the link to the whole article.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79225

Boxcar

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Well, I guess this whole thing is not dead quite yet....

And BTW, all the conspiracy theorists out there...interesting timing when Obama went to Hawaii recently to be with his ailing grandmother....

Doubts persist about Obama birth certificate
Considerable evidence still points to candidate's birth in Kenya

HONOLULU – Even though Hawaii officials now claim to have verified the authenticity of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate (http://www.starbulletin.com/news/hawaiinews/20081101_officials_verify_birth_certificate_of_oba ma.html) – in hopes of ending widespread speculation and even multiple lawsuits challenging the Democrat candidate's constitutional qualification to be president – it turns out there is still reason for serious questioning.

In fact, there is considerable evidence that Obama was born in Kenya (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79900#), not in Hawaii as the candidate and his campaign have maintained.

As WND reported from Honolulu last week, (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174) Gov. Linda Lingle instructed the Hawaii Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to Obama's original birth certificate. Lingle's letter to WND made clear that the original doctor-generated and hospital-released birth certificate on file with the state's health department would be released to the press if Obama (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79900#) so requested – but to date the candidate has made no such request.

The governor's communication with WND also left ambiguous whether the Obama birth certificate on file with the Department of Health was originally generated by a Hawaii doctor after giving birth to Obama in Hawaii, or generated in Kenya and subsequently registered by the Obama family in Hawaii.

The rest:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79900

bigmack
11-03-2008, 03:17 PM
AiJS0fCf0Js

boxcar
11-03-2008, 04:06 PM
Your personal "litmus test" is just that, yours. You have the right to it, under the Constitution. However, I have the right to have a different "litmus test", under the same Constitution. Mine is that as long as a person is qualified to be President, then he has the right to run and be elected, or not. Since you cannot prove that Mr. Obama is not a true American citizen

Oh, how did I miss this little gem of a post? :rolleyes:

Define "true American", Raybo! To me a true American is not someone who can't find it within himself to utter one positive, unconditional statement about this country. To me a true American doesn't for 20 years sit under the preaching of a black racist who also hates America -- most especially White America. To me a true American doesn't pal around with likes of Bill Ayers who, too, hates America. To me a true American doesn't sow the seeds of discord through Class Envy statements. To me a true American wouldn't imply that the U.S. Constitution is a fundamentally flawed document. And all these things are just the tip of the iceberg.

and you cannot prove that he shares, not the views (that's our right as Americans), but the unlawful actions of someone like Ayers performed years and years ago, you are just another talking mouth who wants the status quo to continue, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and more and more of our Constitutional rights disappear.

Oh...you mean like how Joe the Plumber's privacy rights got flushed down the toilet recently by the Obama's campaign because this private citizen had the audacious temerity to question a presidential candidate views of "spreading the wealth"?

And while you're at it, please elaborate for us specifically which rights you have personally lost. Maybe I've lost the same ones along way and have been asleep at the switch. :rolleyes:

Oh, and BTW, quoting your Bible means nothing to anyone who doesn't believe in it. So, are you assuming that everyone here is a Christian?

First, off I didn't address you in that post. Why were you offended? Too much free speech? Can't handle freedom of religious expression?

And no, I believe just opposite about everyone "here". I believe only a very tiny percentage of us are true Christians.

Christians only represent 1/4 to 1/3 of the world's population and only 76% of the United States's population, not 100% as you apparently think.

But why would you think this? Just because I sometimes quote the bible to see what it says about specific situations? I am a Conservative because I'm a Christian. I am a Conservative because conservative ideology, while not perfectly in sync with the entire counsel of God, comes about as close to it as one could hope for with any human form of government.

Now, go ahead and call me a Muslim, I opened the door for you. The fact is, if I choose to be Muslim or any other religion, that is my right as an American. Go ahead, show more of your biased character.

Gee whizkers, Raybo, calm down. Don't get your little panties in a wad. It seems to me that you might be the one who has a bias in his character, otherwise why make such a big deal out of a couple of biblical texts I quoted?

But since you "opened" that "door" for me, I'll share my biblical take on your unwarranted heated comments with you thusly:

Prov 26:4
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
NASB

Boxcar

boxcar
11-03-2008, 04:10 PM
Hey, BigMack, that lil' ol' grandma is just an RNC operative. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

The Judge
11-03-2008, 04:32 PM
to go with the facts? Why release anything if it wouldn't stop rummors. At post #110 hcap posted photos of Hawaiian newspaper articles showing from the proper date and time (8/1961) that he was born in Hawaii.

You all have nothing new I finally looked at his grandmother tape she is speaking a dialect and it is interpreted by who I don't know "Barach was born in this village " . So Obama white mother went to Africa and gave birth without a doctor I assume in an African village.

You all would rather believe this non-sense rather then a mis-interpretaion of what his grandmother meant. As you know many customs adopt a person as members of their village or tribe or clan. It doesn't mean they were born there. I have heard Christians refer to each other as brothers or sisters are we to believe they have the same earth-bound parents. If I were from some country that doesn't have or know of this tradition I could report that there is a lady in the United States that gave birth to a 1,000 childers. They were all brothers and sisters.

So after reading and seeing post #110 and letters from the official keeper of the vital statistics of Hawaii you would rather believe an interpretation by someone who you have no idea who it is.

Even with this I didn't see where see said she was there at the birth. No wonder you are behind in almost every poll including the one on this broad. Reality has no place with you.

Bubba X
11-03-2008, 04:39 PM
Well, I guess this whole thing is not dead quite yet....

And BTW, all the conspiracy theorists out there...interesting timing when Obama went to Hawaii recently to be with his ailing grandmother....


The rest:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79900
His grandmother passed today, I believe.

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 05:01 PM
His grandmother passed today, I believe.I'm sincerely sorry to hear this. I actually just heard the news now on my local news telecast, which is why I came back here to post about it.

raybo
11-03-2008, 06:09 PM
Truly, you're confusing me with someone else. I, among others, raised the question about his citizenship but I never stated emphatically that he wasn't one. So, if it's racist of me to raise the question, then so be it and feel free to chant your racist mantras.

Here is one quote about his take on the U.S. Constitution:

But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf.

While he doesn't explicitly state that it's "fundamentally flawed" -- nonetheless he truly implied it. He essentially laments the fact that the Constitution was framed in such a way to severely limit the powers of the State, that is to say that it's essentially a "charter of negative liberties" -- telling Government what it can't do. He actually recognizes and acknowledges this fact. He believes that the Law of the Land should have explicated what the State must do "for" The People -- in other words, the Constitution should have conferred more power to the State so that it would be able to enact what it thinks it must do, and consequently confer less power to The People.

I've stated elsewhere on this forum not too long ago that I do believe that Obama is about as anti-American as they come. And it's not because of his skin color -- but because of his Marxist-like ideology which he knows, has conceded and has lamented isn't supported in the Constitution. Therefore, this guy fails my personal Constitution litmus test for who is a true American according to spirit of this all-important document. This is the kinda guy who would dearly love to make fundamentally important changes to this document. And I believe this certainly would be the foremost "change" he would try to get Congress and/or the Supreme Court to enact anyway he could. And this kind of change would not be good for America.

Below is the link to the whole article.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79225

Boxcar

Thanks for the link, or at least access to the video (the article is so heavily biased it made me physically sick, Rush Limbaugh is NOT my favorite person and his views, IMO, are pure rubbish). May I suggest that you watch and listen to that video again, no matter how cut up it is. This time try to ignore, if that's possible, the scrolling text that is interpreting, FOR YOU, what Mr. Obama is saying. Try not to let your bias against him color what he is saying. He's obviously talking about the civil rights movement and what the Court did and what it did not do. That is obvious, no interpretaion needed.

It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf.

This is a true statement, the Constitution limits the power of the government. He does not say, or imply, that it is flawed, only what it says that the government cannot do. Whether or not he believes that the Constitution should have said what the government should do on our behalf is not contained in his statement.He says that he thinks what the civil rights movement failed to accomplish was, other than obtaining for blacks some of the rights that they already owned but could not enjoy, that it failed to right the injustices, through the Court, that they had suffered concerning their inability to gain wealth and property, and the fact that ,even after the movement, blacks were still subjected to political injustices. The Court did not tackle those problems, he said, because the Court is not set up that way. The Court is not an administrative body and that is the kind of body it would have taken to administer those kinds of things.

Is he for redistribution of wealth? Yes, I think so. Is he for taking your wealth from you? No, that's not what he said, if you listened to the "on the street" portions after the part of the video you quoted. He told the man that he wasn't talking about taking his wealth, only that everyone has the same chances for obtaining wealth, a level playing field, if you will.

raybo
11-03-2008, 06:20 PM
I'm truly sorry that it took the passing of his grandmother to confirm his reason for going to Hawaii. There were lots of things posted as true, concerning this, that, maybe now, everyone will let go.

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 07:33 PM
I'm truly sorry that it took the passing of his grandmother to confirm his reason for going to Hawaii.I never doubted he went to Hawaii to be with his grandmother. I simply offered up a conspiracy theory that I had read about elsewhere and posted it at the worst possible moment.

Let's get back to the topic at hand though. I know this will upset raybo, but we still haven't seen Obama's academic records, curiously. And, of course, Obama still hasn't released his official birth certificate for the press to see (well, those in the press who are interested). Whatever picture hcap posted is just that....a picture...I don't know where it comes from or whatever...anyone with a color laser printer could have conjured that thing up...

Look up what steps were taken in John McCain's Panama Canal birth controversy. I believe Congress stepped in with some sort of decree on his behalf. All these guys are asking for is for Obama to release his official birth certificate for the press' pleasure...the same way McCain did, and the same way McCain had to release his medical records for the press' pleasure.

Also, I had heard that Obama went to school in Indonesia when he was a youngster. His family sure seems to have done a lot of globe trotting....Hawaii, Indonesia, Kenya possibly.

Well, anyway, I also read that in order to attend Indonesia schools, one had to be a citizen of Indonesia. Anyone know if this is true, or is it simply just another Obama smear?

If it's true Obama was at one time a citizen of Indonesia, I believe this opens up a whole other can of worms.

I don't understand why some of you take these lines of questioning personally, as if Barry Obama was your brother, uncle or father. He's running for president. Ya'll had your fun with Bush. Now it's our turn.

boxcar
11-03-2008, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the link, or at least access to the video (the article is so heavily biased it made me physically sick, Rush Limbaugh is NOT my favorite person and his views, IMO, are pure rubbish).

Ah...really? Go see a good doctor (while you still have the right to choose one) and send Obama the bill. I'm sure he'll be happy to share his own personal wealth you.

May I suggest that you watch and listen to that video again, no matter how cut up it is. This time try to ignore, if that's possible, the scrolling text that is interpreting, FOR YOU, what Mr. Obama is saying. Try not to let your bias against him color what he is saying. He's obviously talking about the civil rights movement and what the Court did and what it did not do. That is obvious, no interpretaion needed.

Well, golly gee, Raybo, thanks for giving me your interpretation of what you just said doesn't need interpreting. :bang: :bang:

This is a true statement, the Constitution limits the power of the government. He does not say, or imply, that it is flawed, only what it says that the government cannot do. Whether or not he believes that the Constitution should have said what the government should do on our behalf[/b] is not contained in his statement.

And incidentally, that scrolling text that you don't like are his words -- not an interpretation thereof!

You either have very poor hearing or you're bad fibber. You libs are always in such denial. (I went through this with another one of your comrades who denied that an interviewer came to Obama's aid very quickly when NoBam inadvertently made a comment about his "Muslim faith".) Now, go back and listen to the tape again. He clearly said this:

[i]It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government MUST do on your behalf.[i] (emphasis mine)

He most certainly was implying that the Founding Fathers screwed up big time because they failed to give more power to the State -- so that the State could exercise its will over The People's. And he stated this in the most emphatic way by the use of the term "must" -- not should -- but MUST.

On top of all this, he is dead wrong because the Constitution does state what the Federal government's duties are toward the people; therefore, he is also lamenting that these duties haven't been considerably wider in scope -- haven't covered more areas of people's personal lives. In short, Obama resents the restrictions the FF put on the State. The FF should have gone much farther than they did -- either that or the SC should have done a much better job of performing eisegesis upon the text of the Constitution, thereby imposing its will upon the FF's.

Of course, he's going to couch these kinds of remarks in "civil rights" speech! How else would he hope to sell his Marxist-oriented ideolgoy? Don't forget: He sat under a Whitey and an America hating preacher for 20 years whose stock and trade was writing and preaching his hate-filled rants that were spawned out of his "black liberation theology". So, what would we expect out of this guy? Of course, he's going to play the Victimization Card. He wants to keep Blacks stuck in the past and Whites feeling perpetual guilt because of the "sins of our fathers". He's simply following the DEM playbook.

Is he for redistribution of wealth? Yes, I think so. Is he for taking your wealth from you? No, that's not what he said, if you listened to the "on the street" portions after the part of the video you quoted. He told the man that he wasn't talking about taking his wealth, only that everyone has the same chances for obtaining wealth, a level playing field, if you will.

Again, I cannot believe how naive you are! Of course, he's not going to tell anyone that he's going to take "their" wealth. That he's going to take "their" personal property. Or "their" private property. That would be cutting too close to home. But just how do you think he's going to spread the wealth? Just whose money would he redistribute? Or is he just going to order the Treasury to print more money for his grandiose giveaway plans? How is he going to pay for everyone to have the "same chances" as everyone else?

Boxcar

boxcar
11-03-2008, 07:53 PM
I don't understand why some of you take these lines of questioning personally, as if Barry Obama was your brother, uncle or father. He's running for president. Ya'll had your fun with Bush. Now it's our turn.

Permit me to jump in here to share with everyone why I smell a rat. The DEMs, throughout this entire campaign" have been playing the race card. Heck, we've seen it right here on this forum. Why...if you're against BHO, then you're a racist. If you dare question any of NoBam's past associations, you're a racist. If you dare question his close relationship to his pastor, you're a racist. If you call NoBam a "socialist", you're a racist, etc., etc. The Obama off limits list is endless.

Now Obama has a sterling opportunity to prove to the entire world just how racist his white opponents are because some of us white folks dare question his citizenship. All NoBam would have to do is authorize the Health Dept. in Hawaii to release an official copy of his birth certificate to the press -- one that says he was actually born in Hawaii? Do you know what kind of headline news that would make? You just gotta know the mainstream media would run that news until it dropped dead from exhaustion. Any honest, intelligent person on this forum knows this. So, why hasn't NoBam seized upon this golden opportunity -- most especially when it would only help him pick up more votes? Anyone?

Boxcar

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 08:30 PM
I'm actually more interested in his academic records than his birth certificate.

bigmack
11-03-2008, 08:40 PM
Well, anyway, I also read that in order to attend Indonesia schools, one had to be a citizen of Indonesia. Anyone know if this is true, or is it simply just another Obama smear?
His ma met an Indonesian in Hawaii named Lolo Doetoro (I caught my first "monster" trout just outside Lolo Montana) They wed and went back to Indonesia where he attended school. Two schools; one was a private Cath, the other, a top-notch pub. Rules are lax in this place where many foreign students are allowed to attend school.

In 5th grade he moved back to Hawaii to live with the grands. When time came for kids to say what they wanted to be when they grew up BO said President. (cue angelic like music)

boxcar
11-03-2008, 08:45 PM
I'm actually more interested in his academic records than his birth certificate.

Why? Are you curious to see if his GPA was lower than Bush's? If he gets elected and it is, we could have a field day with that one. :lol:

Boxcar

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 08:50 PM
Why? Are you curios to see if his GPA was lower than Bush's? If he gets elected and it is, we could have a field day with that one. :lol:

BoxcarNo, I'm just curious to see the reason behind why he hasn't authorized their release. Of course, you won't see this on 60 minutes. The media won't dare ask this question.

Now, if GWB had tried to keep his academic records under lock and key, 60 minutes would have done about 10 investigatory pieces by this point in time.

ElKabong
11-03-2008, 09:22 PM
I'm actually more interested in his academic records than his birth certificate.

Occidental College records - Not released
Columbia College records - Not released
Columbia Thesis paper - 'not available'
Harvard College records - Not released
Medical records - Not released
Illinois State Senate schedule - 'not available'
Law practice client list - Not released
Harvard Law Review articles published - None
University of Chicago scholarly articles - None
Illinois State Senate records-'not available'

Secretariat
11-03-2008, 09:23 PM
No, I'm just curious to see the reason behind why he hasn't authorized their release. Of course, you won't see this on 60 minutes. The media won't dare ask this question.

Now, if GWB had tried to keep his academic records under lock and key, 60 minutes would have done about 10 investigatory pieces by this point in time.

Didn't Palin take 6 years to graduate and went to 5 different colleges before she got a degree. Haven't seen her transcript either. Or her medical record.

We do know John McCain graduated near the bottom of his class at Annapolis.

Obama was President of the Harvard Law Review. If you honestly want a picture of his Harvard days you mgiht want to read this article.

www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/at_harvard_law_a_unifying_voice/

PaceAdvantage
11-03-2008, 09:46 PM
Refer to Elkabong's post directly above yours, then get back to me. We're talking about Obama here, not Palin. When Palin runs for President, then we can talk about her.

If Obama has such a superior record as opposed to John McCain, why in the world won't he let anyone look at it? Seems he should want to FLAUNT his academic record, not cover it up in the face of McCain's lackluster performance.

I'll ask again. What is he hiding?

ElKabong
11-03-2008, 10:59 PM
Didn't Palin take 6 years to graduate and went to 5 different colleges before she got a degree. Haven't seen her transcript either. Or her medical record.

We do know John McCain graduated near the bottom of his class at Annapolis.

Obama was President of the Harvard Law Review. If you honestly want a picture of his Harvard days you mgiht want to read this article.

www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/at_harvard_law_a_unifying_voice/

Palin just released her medical records. When does 0bama release the records I listed above?

HUSKER55
11-03-2008, 11:35 PM
that when anyone wants an answer about Obama people go after Palin?

People must be ashamed of Obama.

Another reason to vote McCain. Obama has more skeletons than we thought.

boxcar
11-03-2008, 11:37 PM
that when anyone wants an answer about Obama people go after Palin?

People must be ashamed of Obama.

Another reason to vote McCain. Obama has more skeletons than we thought.

I think he might have so many, they might have to find him a 58th state for additional storage space. :D

Boxcar

Boris
11-04-2008, 05:59 AM
I'll ask again. What is he hiding?

That he was an Affirmative Action hire?

Tom
11-04-2008, 07:42 AM
Why? Are you curious to see if his GPA was lower than Bush's? If he gets elected and it is, we could have a field day with that one. :lol:

Boxcar

He was graduated Suma cum Rutabaga.

ArlJim78
11-04-2008, 08:03 AM
No, I'm just curious to see the reason behind why he hasn't authorized their release. Of course, you won't see this on 60 minutes. The media won't dare ask this question.
you know the reason. his thesis was likely something along the lines of:
THE EVILS OF CAPITALISM: WHY IT MUST BE DEFEATED, USING RADICAL AND/OR VIOLENT MEANS IF NECESSARY.

PaceAdvantage
11-04-2008, 09:28 AM
That he was an Affirmative Action hire?If that's all it was, I'd be relieved, as this isn't an issue that is important to me...

I feel there is something else at play here...

hcap
11-04-2008, 09:39 AM
If that's all it was, I'd be relieved, as this isn't an issue that is important to me...

I feel there is something else at play here...Secretly transported to earth by aliens?

PaceAdvantage
11-04-2008, 09:42 AM
Secretly transported to earth by aliens?That would make him and Al Gore blood brothers, would it not?

OTM Al
11-04-2008, 09:49 AM
What is he hiding?

I feel there is something else at play here...

You are starting to sound exactly like the 9/11 "truthers". You don't get into the schools and programs he did without the grades. Despite what people seem to think about affirmative action, these programs have so many qualified applicants that they are not going to offer a spot to someone who is not qualified. Again, as I said, you can trust me on this because I work in just such an institution. He's been out in the public eye for more than 2 years now and now you start asking for these things? This stuff is pure desperation because you want him to lose so badly. There are real issues out there you should be attacking. This is not one.

Tom
11-04-2008, 09:55 AM
Hey, that was all we heard from the libs about Bush's military records. Can't stand the heat? :lol:

Seriously, how can there be so many rubes out there to just sweep under the carpet the fact that this guy IS hiding everything? Operative word here is rubes.

PaceAdvantage
11-04-2008, 09:57 AM
You are starting to sound exactly like the 9/11 "truthers". You don't get into the schools and programs he did without the grades. Despite what people seem to think about affirmative action, these programs have so many qualified applicants that they are not going to offer a spot to someone who is not qualified. Again, as I said, you can trust me on this because I work in just such an institution. He's been out in the public eye for more than 2 years now and now you start asking for these things? This stuff is pure desperation because you want him to lose so badly. There are real issues out there you should be attacking. This is not one.I sound nothing like the 9/11 truthers. Please.

I have not offered up any bizarre conspiracy theories (hell, I haven't offered up ANY theories in this area, bizarre or not) about what might be in his academic records. I have no idea what might be in those records,which is why I'm curious as to why he won't release them.

I only ask WHY he hasn't released records that other presidential candidates in recent memory have. This is a valid question. Perhaps you can offer up an answer, being as you are smack in the middle of academia.

And again, as far as I am concerned, this has nothing to do with affirmative action. I couldn't care less about that. But the fact that you mention AA tells me that you think this is the reason why I am posting about this subject. You would be wrong in your assumption.

OTM Al
11-04-2008, 10:26 AM
No, but others were inferring that it was AA why he didn't want his records displayed, so just killing 2 birds with one stone.

I don't know that he hasn't released his records. The only complaints I'm hearing on the issue are here and in whacked out ultra right publications who keep hammering on why he hasn't released a birth certificate when he already has. You keep pointing out the Bush Jr. got hammered on his military record. I seem to recall the reason for that was his bringing it up and what he claimed wasn't quite true. Do you contend that Mr. obama didn't accomplish any of these degrees?

I do know from being in academia that FERPA prevents institutions from releasing records to just anyone, so certainly no one is actively blocking their release. I also know that in some schools for work beyond the BA there are no transcripts. I have no idea if that is the case with Harvard Law but would not be surprised if it is. I do know it has been the case with grad students at Princeton until just this year, if you want a solid example.

The thing that I don't get though is what do you expect to find? His grades would neccessarily be well above average.

PaceAdvantage
11-04-2008, 10:31 AM
The thing that I don't get though is what do you expect to find? His grades would neccessarily be well above average.He appears to be an intelligent man, so I would assume his grades would be fine...probably better than Kerry and Bush.

Quite frankly, I'm stumped as to why we don't have access to any of his academic work, papers written, etc. etc.

Obama is being portrayed as a deep thinker, an intelligent and caring man, and yet, we have no access to his academic work from his early life.

I find it all a bit odd, considering the fact that one of the early criticisms of Obama has been that "we just don't know much about him."

I would think he would take every opportunity to share whatever he could of himself to win over the "we just don't know much about him" folks. Wouldn't you agree?

GaryG
11-04-2008, 10:34 AM
I would think he would take every opportunity to share whatever he could of himself to win over the "we just don't know much about him" folks. Wouldn't you agree?Wait until he takes that goofy mask off.....surprise!

OTM Al
11-04-2008, 10:40 AM
He wrote 2 books about himself and his beliefs didn't he? If we don't know much about him its not that he didn't put it out there for anyone to pick up and read. And as for early work, I would find that pretty much irrelevant. People tend to change quite a bit from the time they were 18 to when they are in their late 40s. I think its his beliefs now that matter, which are available at your local Barnes and Noble

Floyd
11-04-2008, 12:44 PM
He wrote 2 books about himself and his beliefs didn't he? If we don't know much about him its not that he didn't put it out there for anyone to pick up and read. And as for early work, I would find that pretty much irrelevant. People tend to change quite a bit from the time they were 18 to when they are in their late 40s. I think its his beliefs now that matter, which are available at your local Barnes and Noble

Nah. That requires, you know, readin' and stuff. We know he's a baby eatin' america hatin' muslin that wouldn't leave his christian church and killed his granny to keep her from revealin' the fact that he was born a furriner, and he's hiding his grade school transcripts cuz he once said "Girls? I hate girls. Girls are yucky!" which would cost him the wimmin vote.

McCain still has a chance.

To concede early.

PaceAdvantage
11-04-2008, 01:09 PM
Nah. That requires, you know, readin' and stuff. We know he's a baby eatin' america hatin' muslin that wouldn't leave his christian church and killed his granny to keep her from revealin' the fact that he was born a furriner, and he's hiding his grade school transcripts cuz he once said "Girls? I hate girls. Girls are yucky!" which would cost him the wimmin vote.

McCain still has a chance.

To concede early.Excellent reply. Really...top notch.

Tom
11-04-2008, 01:41 PM
He wrote 2 books about himself and his beliefs didn't he?

Did he? Or did Bill Ayers write them.
And beliefs are one thing, reality another. What is this fraud hiding? WHY is he afraid to show his records and WHY is everyone rolling over? We already know he is a liar - ref: his POS reverand and mentor. He lied about public finance, so the jury is back on that fact - Obama lies.

OTM Al
11-04-2008, 01:47 PM
I quote PA

"Excellent reply. Really...top notch."

Tom
11-04-2008, 03:05 PM
Am I wrong on any points I made? I mean, he is a proven liar. Cant' dispute that.

Bubba X
11-04-2008, 03:38 PM
Yes, you're wrong.

But do please carry on.

Secretariat
11-04-2008, 04:26 PM
Palin just released her medical records. When does 0bama release the records I listed above?

She didn't release her medical records. She released a note from her doctor saying she was in good health. When does she release her actual medical records?

HUSKER55
11-04-2008, 04:32 PM
Obama is supposed to lead not follow.

JustRalph
11-04-2008, 04:47 PM
She didn't release her medical records. She released a note from her doctor saying she was in good health. When does she release her actual medical records?

There is no reason for her to release her entire records. She isn't the one who is going to be replaced if the Prez dies. If she is in bad health and dies in office, no big deal. The Prez gets to pick a replacement.

Tom
11-04-2008, 11:41 PM
She didn't release her medical records. She released a note from her doctor saying she was in good health. When does she release her actual medical records?

She doesn't - Obama set the standard. How much of a shill can you possibly be? I'll wait while you go ask KOS what you think.

Tom
11-04-2008, 11:43 PM
Yes, you're wrong.

But do please carry on.

Where? Or is that all ya got?
He lied. Fact of live. Debate is over. YOUR president is a frigging liar.

hcap
11-05-2008, 09:40 AM
Where? Or is that all ya got?
He lied. Fact of live. Debate is over. YOUR president is a frigging liar.
Well World Net Daily is still at it.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80072

"The issue gained more attention when Berg told radio talk show host Michael Savage he had an admission from Obama's grandmather that she was at his birth – in Kenya."

"WND senior investigative reporter Jerome Corsi traveled both to Kenya and Hawaii to investigate issues surrounding Obama's birth."

.................................................. ..........................

Good luck guys. Space aliens will be next

Tom
11-05-2008, 11:56 AM
As usual, a day late and a dollar short, hcap.
We are talking about his being a proven liar, with respect to public financing, The POS RACIST Reverand of his.....you know, stuff he said that have been proven to be lies, unlike what you tried to pinon Bush as lies with no proof?
Try to keep up....the fell good eduction sysem is not in place yet. Results are still expected.