I said it two weeks ago.

[Tom]

When the nonsense about the 700 billion dollar sellout first started, before it swelled up to 850 billion, I posted here we we see three trillion before they were done. Now, the plan to buy into banks is looking like 1.8 trillion.

The only way we ever pay that back is to tax the hell out all the dead people Obama and Acorn have enrolled to vote in this election. I figure $5 a corpse.


BTW, the sellout bill provides for $420 per $100,000 in all new mortgages to go directly to affordable housing through fronts like Acorn. Pure socialism.

The is going to be a civil war, mark my words. We will be in the streets before the next election cycle.

[LottaKash]

Fascism is but a step away now.....Many great nations and economies were just as bewildered as we, to what had happened to the world they once knew, once the Government had taked complete control and the Dictators took office.....Just ask the Germans about their beloved Hitler, and the Russians about their once revered Lenin, and what had happened as a result......It all occurred right before their very eyes, and they didn't see it until it was too late to have any say in anything about anything, they were too afraid then ......

best,

[Marshall Bennett]

Fascism is but a step away now.....Many great nations and economies were just as bewildered as we, to what had happened to the world they once knew, once the Government had taked complete control and the Dictators took office.....Just ask the Germans about their beloved Hitler, and the Russians about their once revered Lenin, and what had happened as a result......It all occurred right before their very eyes, and they didn't see it until it was too late to have any say in anything about anything, they were too afraid then ......

best,
Add Obama and the current congress to the equation and you're close .

[LottaKash]

Add Obama and the current congress to the equation and you're close .

I suspect much, much closer that we think........I have been studying the comings and goings of people and events leading to where we are right now in this point of our "History".....And, to me at least, it is quite evident that most of the steps needed to occur, to have Nationalistic-Socialistic control, are done with and only the remaining few are all that are needed to complete the carefully crafted future plan for our nation and the rest of the world at large....I have no reason to believe otherwise.......I trust nothing and no-one these days.......

And the Media.......Where is Caylee ??????

best,

[Suff]

Add Obama and the current congress to the equation and you're close .

Fascism comes from the Italian "Fasciitis". It was Mussolini who created the system of Government known as Facism, and it was used by others to describe the ideology of rebuilding the European economies after WW1.

. Introduction

Fascism, modern political ideology that seeks to regenerate the social, economic, and cultural life of a country by basing it on a heightened sense of national belonging or ethnic identity. Fascism rejects liberal ideas such as freedom and individual rights, and often presses for the destruction of elections, legislatures, and other elements of democracy. Despite the idealistic goals of fascism, attempts to build fascist societies have led to wars and persecutions that caused millions of deaths. As a result, fascism is strongly associated with right-wing fanaticism, racism, totalitarianism, and violence.

http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/ara/pde/facism.html


The election of Obama will save us from Fascism

[Overlay]

"...liberal ideas such as freedom and individual rights..."

That may have been the classic definition of liberalism in Jefferson's time, but since the New Deal, it has been transformed into a version that Jefferson wouldn't recognize, in which government knows what is best for the individual better than the individual does, and in which individual rights are changed from "equality of opportunity" to "equality of results". Any disparity in resources then becomes as an evil to be corrected through forced redistribution of wealth, leading to continuing dependence on that governmental redistribution, rather than promoting and rewarding the exertion of personal effort and initiative that gives each individual the possibility to accrue resources, and improve their position in life.

(Just to be impartial about it, the modern version of conservatism has also strayed far from former principles of fiscal discipline.)

Carry either conservatism or liberalism too far, and they transform into totalitarianism (fascism on the one hand, or communism on the other).

[Tom]

Conservatism favors small, un-meddling government, so how can you take it too far? Maybe Republicanism, but Repubs and Conservs are two very different groups. I have no republican blood in my veins or ideals in my mind.:D

[ddog]

I wonder what China would give us for Alaska?
Maybe a couple of trillion???
Plus we could strike a deal for ongoing royalty payments as they start drilling and mining operations there bigtime.


Easy to relocate those few who wouldn't want to stay there.



Now THAT'S a capital idea!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......


:(

[Dan Montilion]

Baked Alaska and Egg Fu Young... I'm in.

[wes]

We were given a choice of two to vote for in this election. It doesn't make much difference who wins or loses. The outcome will be about the same. The same old promises that will be broken. The same political lies will be told. The crooks will be out in force as well. Will just be a different crowd.
Obama will erect a watermelon stand on the white house lawn. In a few days all the grass will be gone. From all the free loaders from Acorn. Then the grounds will be littered with chicken bones. A few days later they will wake up and realize Obama has already consumed the sacred cow. Then shit will hit the fan.

wes

[Overlay]

Conservatism favors small, un-meddling government, so how can you take it too far?

You're correct about government non-intervention from an economic standpoint, but doesn't modern conservatism in its extreme form try to use government to dictate personal morality from a social standpoint to an extent that is incompatible with its expressed principle of getting government out of people's lives? (Again, maybe it boils down, as you say, to the difference between traditional conservatism and current "Republican" conservatism.)

[Tom]

I see what you mean, but I classify the Religious Right as opportunistic little cults not worth bothering to please. But Republican are whores at heart and cater to them for whatever scrap they can get thrown their way. I look at the repub party as nothing more than a medium for conservatives to travel on, but I think any true conservatives have abandoned them for ever. It's like the Obama people going to Palin rallies and shouting "Shoot Him!" trying to make people think it is her people doing it. Old dirty trick, no one past 1st grade fell for it ( sorry home boys here! :lol:) The conservatism I subscripe too will never be popular because it is based on personal responsibility and accoutabily couple with minimal government, all foreign conepts to libs - no offense, just facts. Liberaism is a "feel good" idealism, vbased on filtering facts to suit your feel good progect of the moment, and re-writing the miserable failures so you continue to "feel good," but since most libs are mad, frustrated people people full of hate and revenge, I guess it doens't work! :lol:

Conservatism seeks to liberate and enable people, liberaism seeks to control them and blame them, a party of division.

They are closer to the religious right in that respect than conservatives are. The RR and the libs want to force thier will on others.

[witchdoctor]

I wonder what China would give us for Alaska?
Maybe a couple of trillion???
Plus we could strike a deal for ongoing royalty payments as they start drilling and mining operations there bigtime.


Easy to relocate those few who wouldn't want to stay there.



Now THAT'S a capital idea!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......


:(

I doubt it. if China has some good lobbists, they probably could get bipartisian support to have us pay China to take Alaska off our hands. :bang:

[Suff]

"...liberal ideas such as freedom and individual rights..."

That may have been the classic definition of liberalism in Jefferson's time, but since the New Deal, it has been transformed into a version that Jefferson wouldn't recognize, in which government knows what is best for the individual better than the individual does, and in which individual rights are changed from "equality of opportunity" to "equality of results".

That's not true, and the facts do not support your assertion. The disparity between equality opportunity and equality of results has drastically widened. Equal opportunity has evaporated. You need a post graduate degree to make a living in America today, you tell me what % of Americans have access to that no matter how how hard they work?



Any disparity in resources then becomes as an evil to be corrected through forced redistribution of wealth,

I repeat from an earlier post....

Redistribution of wealth is a component of capitalism.

DISTRUBUTION of wealth is a component of Socialism. e.g.. The Govt tells you what Apples sell for, the Govt tells you what apple pickers earn.


Redistribution of income is what a progressive tax system is. Trust me again, without a progressive tax system it would take less than 10 years and 1% of the country would have 99.9% of the wealth.

Milton Friedman the grandaddy of western capitalism acknowledged

"The mechanisms of capitalism are not applicable for the poor"

He also supported redistribution of wealth through negative taxation.

example: Family of four with no income would get 30K from GOVT.

The qualifier being that we eliminate all social service agencies.




I'm not sure exactly what you want to do that your being prevented from doing by your Government?

Government tells you to stop at red lights, go slow, put out your trash, allow them to inspect your house when put in a new water heater, or add an addition... Government makes sure when you eat in a restaurant that they use proper food handling to avoid infection...

Government makes sure your car doesn't crumble when you get hit at 30 MPH, Govt makes sure the world around you is up to standards for civilized living. Govt does a lot, and I for one am proud of my Government. Its the envy of the world. Nowhere on earth does a Government provide the level of services that we get in the USA.


You say "Today's Liberalism".

That was JFK's daughter heading up Barak Obama's VP search, that was JFK's brother endorsing him. Do you think these folks might have a better understanding of modern liberalism than your self accommodating version?

Many members of Pace Advantage try the "Liberalism has changed" to justify their fascist leanings.


Modern day Liberalism is not what they describe.

For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies.

But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

That's John F Kennedy, and if your not with his daughter then your not with him.

[delayjf]

but doesn't modern conservatism in its extreme form try to use government to dictate personal morality from a social standpoint to an extent that is incompatible with its expressed principle of getting government out of people's lives?
Indeed, the religious right in more closely aligned with the American conservative movement. One could argue that today the opposite is now the case. It is the liberal left or the social liberal left that is using the courts to force it’s view of morality on a society that has reject that view at the ballot box.

[HUSKER55]

kENNEDY DID NOT HAVE YOUTH CAMPS AND OBAMA DOES. cHECK OUT THE OTHER THREADS.


sINCE KENNEDY'S DAUGHTER BELIEVES IN IT THEN i HAVE TO ASSUME, ACCORDING TO YOU, THAT SO DID KENNEDY.

NUFF SAID.

[delayjf]

But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

Mighty fine words from somebody born with a silver spoon in her mouth. I’d be real interested in seeing her reaction to the government taking the Kennedy family wealth. Welcoming new ideas?? I want to know what the new ideas are. Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it has merit.

Conservatives also care about the things listed above, we differ in the manner in which the above can or should be achieved. And everyone in this country has access to education, whether they take the steps they need to to obtain that education is up to the individual and that’s were conservative and liberals disagree – is it a individual’s responsibility or is it the states responsibility to see that you succeed.

[PaceAdvantage]

The election of Obama will save us from FascismYou are terribly naive, but you are also a hoot.

After you gave up horse racing, you've done nothing but post about the evils of Republicans, how conspiracy lies behind every corner, how the right and evil corporations have screwed the world.

And yet, here you are, espousing the theory that simply electing Obama will get rid of all that....

Yeah right! I know you're not that clueless. If indeed big oil, big corporations and big bad Republicans are pulling the strings, they ain't going to let some junior Senator from Illinois spoil that party....just like they didn't let a Congress full of Democrats change a thing in 2006.

[jonnielu]

I suspect much, much closer that we think........I have been studying the comings and goings of people and events leading to where we are right now in this point of our "History".....And, to me at least, it is quite evident that most of the steps needed to occur, to have Nationalistic-Socialistic control, are done with and only the remaining few are all that are needed to complete the carefully crafted future plan for our nation and the rest of the world at large....I have no reason to believe otherwise.......I trust nothing and no-one these days.......

And the Media.......Where is Caylee ??????

best,

And what really seals the deal is to see that people couldn't care less about Liberty as long as their government check is on time, and wouldn't lift a finger to have it back again, because they are afraid of losing what they don't even possess anyway.

Maybe they will change their minds once the bankers are on the doorstep to gamahooch their mother and daughter for the rent.

jdl

[jonnielu]

someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties --



The poor people, too stupid to fend for themselves, they need an elitist bitch to look down her nose and care.

jdl

[LottaKash]

And what really seals the deal is to see that people couldn't care less about Liberty as long as their government check is on time, and wouldn't lift a finger to have it back again, because they are afraid of losing what they don't even possess anyway.

Maybe they will change their minds once the bankers are on the doorstep to gamahooch their mother and daughter for the rent.

jdl

Yes Jonnielu, I think that we are in the fulfillment stage of the Chinese Curse - " May you live in interesting times ".........

best,

[Tom]

Who the hell cares Caroline Kennedy thinks?
For that matter, who the hell cares what any damn Kennedy thinks?

[HUSKER55]

Tom, you are making this way too easy with all the skeletons in their closet

[Suff]

You are terribly naive, but you are also a hoot.

After you gave up horse racing, you've done nothing but post about the evils of Republicans, how conspiracy lies behind every corner, how the right and evil corporations have screwed the world.

And yet, here you are, espousing the theory that simply electing Obama will get rid of all that....

Yeah right! I know you're not that clueless. If indeed big oil, big corporations and big bad Republicans are pulling the strings, they ain't going to let some junior Senator from Illinois spoil that party....just like they didn't let a Congress full of Democrats change a thing in 2006.

Naive in what way? Fascism is defined as corporatism. The ideology of what is good for the Corporation is what's good for the country.

Can this Bailout be any better example?

1. We have to allow our jobs to go overseas because it will be good for us long term.

2. We have to lower our corporate taxes to be equal with foriegn companies so Dell Computer won't move there.

3 , 4 and 5 and on and on. That's Fascism. In a rough way.

Idea's are not islands. There are components of Fascism that appeal to me, and there are components of Communism, Socialism, Totalitarianism, and single party rule that appeal to me.

You interpret my words as solely anti-republican. They are not, they are anti extreme Fascism. That's America's main export right now. And quickly becoming our largest domestic crop. No conspiracy.....

Btw, I don't follow Horse racing anymore, nor the Red Sox, or most sports for that matter. College Football I still enjoy, but Red Sox , Patriots, NFL and so on.... I completely lost interest. I did not watch virtually any Red Sox games this year. Maybe two games total.

[PaceAdvantage]

Naive in the fact that if indeed America is falling under a fascist spell, Obama is the wake-up ticket.

If America is truly as you have portrayed it to be, then Obama or no Obama, nothing is going to change.

[Suff]

Naive in the fact that if indeed America is falling under a fascist spell, Obama is the wake-up ticket.
.

Fascism is not a spell. Have you not seen board members here like Lefty go to bat for Wal-Mart? Explaining why Wal Mart is good for us? Have you not seen board members go to bat for Oil companies.... explaining to us all that big oil makes the same % per gallon as they always have, and the oil companies pay big taxes? Please don't blame corporations because they are good. They want to help us by drilling in Alaska.....they are our friends.

You have seen that right? That is most of your membership here. Guys who go to bat for Wal Mart selling them cheap shit made by 13 year old Chinese girls. These same guys are the rah rah rah ...freedom, Iraq, patriot.... full of crapola

you get the idea.... Facist , but they call it American.


Obama is not the answer. He's a rank amatuer, The Democrats are taking Veto proof control of the House & Senate.

Even if Mccain wins he will be impotent.

If Obama wins then there a is clear shot at the target. The kill shot!

We'll unwind this whole mess in less than four years. We'll unwind most of it even if McCain wins. Most of what people here stand for will be dismantled, burned to ash, and tossed in the waste bin of history.

Its over.

[PaceAdvantage]

I suppose I can rest easy now. You've just explained to me how the next four years will be exactly like the last two.

Useless.

Like you said a few days ago, "Each person controls their own life. Nothing more."

I can still hang my hat on that at least....

[JustRalph]

We'll unwind this whole mess in less than four years.

Jesus, somebody book mark this post.............. unwind this mess in four years? The problem is, time is the only answer to the problem anyway. No matter who is in power. I also agree with Suff that McCain winning won't change anything.........the House and Senate are going Dem and veto proof. The prez. race is nothing but a ratings subject for the Networks............ The game was over two years ago............