I'm disturbed....

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm watching CNN, right now, and the reporter is basically telling us EXACTLY what is going on (along with some crude video) onboard one of our Aircraft Carriers. She was saying how the F-14 pilots are slowly coming out...some are taking off...they seem to be moving up their timetable compared to what she was told earlier.....she even got one or two of the pilots to give Aaron Brown and CNN a wave and a salute or two....

Something about this whole scene is VERY disturbing to me. Why don't we just hand Saddam our entire playbook while we're at it....this is very bizarre....the telegraphing that is apparently going on here is insane....


==PA

[JustRalph]

Pa.....good point. But I just heard on Fox that over 35 cruise enema's were fired. They may not have anything left to shoot at our guys.........lets hope.:cool:

[PaceAdvantage]

CNN reporter is on again reporting from the flight deck....good thing she only gave us the call-signs of those that were taking off at this moment, and not their full legal names..... :rolleyes:



==PA

[Observer]

I've actually been amazed for a while at how much information is being given out by the media .. not just tonight .. but I'm talking about for a while. The public wants to know what's happening, as it's happening, and I think the media is sometimes irresponsible with what it puts out there in trying to satisfy the public, without thinking how what they're doing might actually not be a good idea .. but remember, for the media .. it's all about the ratings!
:rolleyes: :mad:

[PaceAdvantage]

She's back.....now the F-18's are lining up on the USS Lincoln ready to take off....

Hello Saddam, better get those anti-aircraft guns ready...the bunker busters (which I'm getting a nice ZOOMED picture of right now...live...on the flight deck) are loaded on these F-18s.....

Boy, if I was the enemy, I'd make sure to send CNN a big tip around Christmas time later this year for a job well done......

Not that it really matters in the end, but it's the PRINCIPLE of the thing that's getting to me here....I mean, COME ON....this is WAR...a little self-control in the media might be called for....


==PA

[Dan Montilion]

Don't you think that if the military brass was concerned Ms. reporter would not be broadcasting. And besides there are ways to use the media to ones own benefit. Lastily, I would imagine most signals other than psyc-ops are jamed and not getting through to Iraq. But I undestand your point.

Dan Montilion

[PaceAdvantage]

Military has said they are adopting a policy of "No Censorship" which is quite the opposite of the last Gulf War as far as I understand it. Interviews I've seen the past few days with military officials have them saying they will rely on the media to police themselves by not releasing sensitive information that may be helpful to the enemy.

I agree with you Dan, but like I said, it's the principle of the thing....

[andicap]

PA,
that's not the case at all. I've been writing about this for several weeks now and am very well versed with what is going on.

First of all, you can bet your last nickel that there is no way the military would let a TV network air sensitive military information. In fact, an officer could get court-martialed for doing that.
Under the deal with the Pentagon for covering this war, the media gets to travel with the troops on the front lines and on the ships and reports back what it sees. The one caveat is that local commanders can tell the media not to report information that would be injurious to our troops.
(You were likely seeing a piece taped hours before in the field that could safely be aired at the time.)

In fact, the media is worried that local commanders, overly zealous of protecting themselves, will not let them feed their stories from the field even those that would have no effect on security or the welfare of the troops.
So far, though, both the media and Pentagon seem to be satisfied with how the new process -- called "embedding" -- is proceeding.

The media has long been frustrated of being unable to report what is really going on. In WWII correspondents like the legendary Ernie Pyle gave incredible accounts of the heroism of our troops. In recent conflicts, those reports were missing because the media had to get its stories back at HQ rather thanin the field.
So the Pentagon wants the media to get the story out about the bravery and heroism of our troops.
Now there is always a flip side.
In Vietnam, the military often lied to the public about what was going on in the war. This is clearly documented in "The Pentagon Papers," and Neil Sheehan's"Bright and Shining Lie."
The militay wanted everyone at home tothink things were going swimmingly and of course it flat out lied.
It also covered up atrocities like My Lai from the American public.

Americans have a right to know what is going on in Iraq, warts and all. That is called the First Amendment. Of course, when lives and national security is at stake -- no commander is going to let CNN report on its battle plan or strategy -- the press' rights are going to be curtailed.
Too often, however, the military has overzealousy screamed national security, when in reality it was just protecting its ass.
How often does the government yell "national security" when its just trying to cover up wrongdoing or incompetance.

I say that in no disrespect to the hundreds of thousands of troops who are fighting in the Persian Gulf now. It is usually mistakes of the brass that the Pentagon wants to cover up -- bad tactics say, atrocities, losses in the field -- not any incompetence of the troops who are just doing their job the best they can.

While I have many quarrels with how the media in the U.S. performs, they can certainly NOT be accused of wanting to hurt the war effort. In fact the opposite is true. The media generally acts as cheerleaders during the war because it is afraid of a backlash from the American public if they seem to criticize any aspect of the war effort -- even if it deserved (incompetence generals, military setbacks, etc.)

American is a strong country. It is built on freedom of the press even when it seems to sting. As long as lives are not at stake and security is not threatened, there is nothing wrong with a strong, aggressive press.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by andicap
PA,
that's not the case at all. I've been writing about this for several weeks now and am very well versed with what is going on.

First of all, you can bet your last nickel that there is no way the military would let a TV network air sensitive military information........ (You were likely seeing a piece taped hours before in the field that could safely be aired at the time.)



Well, we can deal in semantics and debate whether or not the following consists of sensitive miliary information:

a video and audio play by play of what types and numbers of fighter jets are being launched at this moment (LIVE), what types of ordinance they are carrying and the exact time they are launching and from WHERE they are launching.

*I* say this is sensitive military information. And the report I was watching was LIVE, complete with real time audio and video (the video was remeniscent of YouBet video on a not-so-good day, but it was real-time video nonetheless).

It was 100% live......no doubt about that....


==PA

[Observer]

Well, I still feel it's all about the ratings .. and in so many cases (not just with war) you almost don't know if you should believe what you read .. because the media has shown a tendency to twist a story, even taking quotes out of context, for sensationalism .. that kind of strong, aggressive press is no good and despicable.

In these "big" stories .. it's important for a station to be the leader in coverage .. and I do find the CNN coverage disturbing. There are certain things the public does not need to know, regardless of the First Amendment, free speech or whatever else.

[DeadCrab]

Stop acting like chumps.

CNN was the chief conduit in the last Gulf "war" for selective "disinformation", and they will be in this one.

They feed Sadam, and YOU exactly what the military want you and him to know. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually DeadCrab, I'm sure you have a valid point there...minus the chump part of course....LOL


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[andicap]

Originally posted by DeadCrab
Stop acting like chumps.

CNN was the chief conduit in the last Gulf "war" for selective "disinformation", and they will be in this one.

They feed Sadam, and YOU exactly what the military want you and him to know. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Very savvy analysis, DC. You are 100% correct.

Around the world, CNN is seen as a tool of the American government. the BBC is considered more independent. It's also a reason that the Arab world watches Al Jazeera. Arabs have felt for years that they are neglected and ignored by the west...this is fueling their anger. They are poor, have no voice in countries like Saudi Arabia, and no future. They like Al Jazeera because it speaks to them, much like conservatives like Fox News because it speaks to them.
It's all a matter of perspective.

[Tom]

Two things"
1. This war is not about oil, it is about ratings.
2. Why would you watch CNN for news? Similar to the NY Times, their slogan is "All the news that fits our views"

[Doug]

I think FOX is doing an outstanding job.

The reports are like listening to a college basketball game on the radio. Those other guys are just blah.

Doug

[PaceAdvantage]

Assuming you guys are correct, and CNN is just a propaganda tool for the US Military.....then, it must also be concluded that our brave young men and women who are out there risking their lives for their country are just glorified chauffeurs for the CNN reporters "embeded" into their units??? Give me a BREAK!

Does the dog wag the tail, or does the tail wag the dog here?? If your unit has an "embeded" CNN correspondent with it, does that mean your unit's only duty is to go out and search for proper "propaganda" scenes to transmit LIVE back home??? I don't get it....maybe the experts here can fill me in on this....

The cut and dried attitudes as to what is going on out there doesn't project the entire picture, IMHO (no pun intended).

==PA

[Tom]

Actually, CNN historically puts anything at all on the air with no backgroudn checking at all - how many times have you heard live Ba-Ba-Booie's from supposededly on the scene sources?
CNN has no credibility.
Not that any of the major networks do either.

[JustRalph]

I have a couple different TV's and digital recorders. It has been fun watching this and recording all of it. I have watched both Fox and everybody else several times.

I have just gone through and deleted most of the stuff. Nothing I really wanted to keep long term. But in reviewing the stuff, I found that everybody but Fox was doing a ton more "talking to ex military types"

A couple of times I noticed that while everybody else was doing the talking head thing........we watched and listened as one of the Fox guys was in a Military vehicle taking part in the initial battle of the war. Lots of screaming and yelling and rounds going off. In fact the Ny Times reported today that the first engagement was the units the Fox guy was with. Incredible coverage. There has got to be some WWII vets out there somewhere marveling over this coverage of live battlefields. It is truly amazing.

Geraldo and Ollie North may be on to something. I haven't seen Ollie North since last night ( I did take a nap today and haven't gone thru all the taped stuff yet) and Geraldo I think is hoping he is the only guy on scene when they catch USAMA. Ollie migh show up live from the scene of Saddams reckoning.....hmmmm?

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't worry Ralph, some on here would have you believe that the battle carried on Fox was a staged propaganda event put on for the benefit of a gullible American public..... :rolleyes:



==PA

[JustRalph]

They didn't land on the moon either!


Buzz Aldrin punching Moon Landing Skeptic.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/justralph/anim.gif

Not a bad left hook for a 72 year old.

[hurrikane]

I was just discussing this with someone.

first..remember all the friggin newsreels in ww2 and nam. what a bunch of propoganda bs. Now you see the real deal, real time.

second..ever CO will tell you..every plan that is made is changed once in operation. That is for many many reasons. Those clowns on CNN have no more idea where these guys are going until it's over. And that is the idea.

One good thing about the coverage. When this idiot information czar in Iraq gets on TV and says 'the Amnerican Al Copones have not taken any cities in Iraq, no solders have serendered and we have killed serveral US troops. You know it's bs..and the Iraqi people will know too..as soon as we set up American decedant TV in Bagdad.

[Derek2U]

Its a bad joke to see guys in their late 40s & 50s & older doing diva-drama stuff like Capt Bev & Somer. What a bunch of lame morons taking these issues like war views so serious. And worse taking the medium of the Net so serious. That ESPN group are Ever So Sensative goons ... hehe ... LOL ... ever since TheY came
here this room smells more like a retirees nursing home & I cant
wait for them to EXIT. Who cares if they QUIT & STRUT OFF stage like Mariah Carey. And that psuedo non-entity Somer stinks as a capper 2. Why cant U just Boot Them PA? Now I'm off to Wall St where real guys work not ex-wal mart bag checkers like espn.

[Tom]

Shock and Awe is about to begin.
This is A Day!

[andicap]

Did you know Al Jazeera is embedded with American troops??
So if they can send reports back to their Arab audiences, certainly CNN can!!

Al-Jazeera is not a propaganda machine, but has a pan-Arab point of view. They are as much a propaganda machine as ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and Fox are for America. It's all propaganda -- not necessarily a bad thing. In WW II, Frank Capra made a memorable series of propaganda films, "Why we Fight" that have been highly acclaimed.

[Tom]

...they are the K-Tel of the Bin Laden greatest hits series aren't they?
I sure wouldn't let any of them swags anywhere near our boys!
Target practice, anyone!