View Full Version : Woodbine Harness......
LottaKash
10-10-2008, 03:22 PM
Yikes, last nite 10/9/08 was opening nite for Harness Racing at Woodbine.....The horses that were racing at Mohawk Raceway, the sister track to Woodbine have made the leap over to here and boy wasn't the Running Style, last nite, similar to a 1/2-mile track, as most of the winners were doing so by having the lead or at least were in a good forward position early in their respective races......
As the Botster had mentioned in another post, this is a very "chalky" track as well (unusual for a Big-Track), and early speed and positioning is much more prominent at this place vs. Mohawk..... So, many of the good closing horses that were doing so well at Mohawk are now at a major disadvantage......
The Drivers seem to do at least as equally well at both of these tracks.....
The trainers for the most part, the same......But, it should be noted that: Clark Beelby-35%, Stephen Bossence-33%, Bill Elliott-33%, Anders Wolden-27%, and Michael Grant-26%, do very well at Woodbine ... I try to stay alert for these guys.....
Change or die......:lol:
humbly,
Sea Biscuit
10-10-2008, 04:29 PM
Yikes, last nite 10/9/08 was opening nite for Harness Racing at Woodbine.....The horses that were racing at Mohawk Raceway, the sister track to Woodbine have made the leap over to here and boy wasn't the Running Style, last nite, similar to a 1/2-mile track, as most of the winners were doing so by having the lead or at least were in a good forward position early in their respective races......
As the Botster had mentioned in another post, this is a very "chalky" track as well (unusual for a Big-Track), and early speed and positioning is much more prominent at this place vs. Mohawk..... So, many of the good closing horses that were doing so well at Mohawk are now at a major disadvantage......
The Drivers seem to do at least as equally well at both of these tracks.....
The trainers for the most part, the same......But, it should be noted that: Clark Beelby-35%, Stephen Bossence-33%, Bill Elliott-33%, Anders Wolden-27%, and Michael Grant-26%, do very well at Woodbine ... I try to stay alert for these guys.....
Change or die......:lol:
humbly,
Hey LK Perhaps the answer lies in the stretch lengths between the two tracks and also their configurations.
I wrote to "ask the expert" at Standandbred Canada for the info and got this reply.
The info which is below is taken from the 2007 WEG Media Guide. It actually has some decent stats and info (I actually did it before I left there for Standardbred Canada).
Woodbine: Length of Stretch .........................976 feet
Mohawk: Length of Stretch (last turn to wire)....1,095 feet
I hope this helps.
Jeff Renton.
The difference is exactly 119 feet so the closers have a much better chance than at Woodbine.
I thought some of you might be interested in this info.
Some arial views of Mohawk and Woodbine.
Mohawk
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...=UTF8&t=k&z=16 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=43.494806,-79.998622&ie=UTF8&t=k&z=16)
Woodbine
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=...79.603243&z=15 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=k&ll=43.71299,-79.603243&z=15)
Best
SB
LottaKash
10-10-2008, 05:01 PM
After post the above I got to thinking (again) as to why Mohawk has more than it's share of closers winning than at Woodbine ?.....They are both big-track 7/8ths of a mile tracks and they both have this nice long straightaway that allows a chance for the horses who have made mistakes or who were disadvantaged early in the race, to catch up in the later stages of the event.
I thought about the layouts of the tracks, provided by I forgot who in a previous thread, about this, and I came to a conclusion that sort of satisfies me with a good reason why this may be so.......(closer bias vs. early bias)
It seems that Mohawk has an odd configuration, in that the first of the two turns involved in a mile race, is a very much larger and sweeping turn than the last turn.......I think this explains why horses are able to get and keep the lead much easier in the beginning of the race, as the first turn is so long and gradual that the early speed horse's have an easier time of it as opposed to the horses who are un-blessed without any appreciable early GO......Consequently, when the lead horses hit the last turn, which is a much tighter and much smaller turn than the first turn, it makes for a situation that forces the leaders to slow down enough that it breaks the earlier momentum that the speedsters had built up while basically racing in a straight line for much of the race......We all know what happens to any racer that is forced to slow down and lose momentum in a race......After this slowdown it is very hard to get back on with the previous pace, thus resulting in a finish that is dimished somewhat due to that slow down on the last corner....This allows for closers, especially the widest ones in the last corner, to continue on with their bid to collar the leaders late in the race....This odd mix of turns offers a sort of balance to the early speed.......I think this is why you get a nice mix of both early and late speed finishes at Mohawk......
Woodbine, is tougher on closers, in that it has a much more symmetrical layout on the turns, and they are both much tighter for all the contenders, and this gives the early speed and position horses a greater advantage on this first turn, and it is ugly-unkind to horses racing from behind so early in the matchup, as if they try and race contrary to their preferred running style, they will lose prescious ground trying to get any early position at all, especially if racing wide in that portion of the race, so later on they will have to expend a lot more energy and effort in order to make up for the big early deficit that occurs at this track.....And so ,on most nites you had better have a very handy horse in the early speed dep't at this track when compared to sister-Mohawk......
Well, just some thoughts on this,
best,
LottaKash
10-10-2008, 05:24 PM
Hey LK Perhaps the answer lies in the stretch lengths between the two tracks and also their configurations.
I
Woodbine: Length of Stretch .........................976 feet
Mohawk: Length of Stretch (last turn to wire)....1,095 feet
I hope this helps.
Mohawk
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...=UTF8&t=k&z=16 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=43.494806,-79.998622&ie=UTF8&t=k&z=16)
Woodbine
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=...79.603243&z=15 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=k&ll=43.71299,-79.603243&z=15)
Best
SB
Hey Biscuit thx for re-submitting this info...You had posted this while I was crafting my succeeding post...haha......thx again..
best,
jefftune
10-13-2008, 01:55 PM
Interesting, I always thought Woodbine had the longer stretch - it sure seems long when watching the races. And I also thought closers did better at Woodbine than Mohawk. But Woodbine sure was kind to speed last week!
jefftune
10-18-2008, 08:30 AM
Closers are doing better at Woodbine this week. A couple of my horses to watch clicked last night including 18-1 Special Sweetheart! :)
-Jeff Tune
www.angelfire.com/pa/tune (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/tune)
LottaKash
10-18-2008, 02:19 PM
Hey Jefftune, glad you had that 18/1 shot, but it wasn't exactly a closer coming from far back, she sat a pocket trip the whole way around...still a good score,tho........good for you...:jump:
Still, things seem to be shaking out a wee bit as each racing nite passes, as some horses are more able to gear up from further back than in the first week of racing....The early speed and position horses are still having their way tho, and I for one, am not losing sight of that fact....good luck to all there....
best,
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