Those who use real time (Seconds) for Pace

[Capper Al]

For those of you who use real time (seconds) to do your pace figures like The Hat, would you share your expectations about points of calls with us? What I'm looking for is some general rules like 12 seconds per furlong with workouts.

Sprints 5f to 7f:
Seconds to the 1/2, 5/8, 3/4m?

Middle Distance 7.5f to 1m 70 yards
Seconds to the 1/2, and 3/4m?

Routes 8.5f and up?
Seconds to the 1/2, 3/4, 1m?

Thanks

[barn32]

For those of you who use real time (seconds) to do your pace figures like The Hat, would you share your expectations about points of calls with us? What I'm looking for is some general rules like 12 seconds per furlong with workouts.

Sprints 5f to 7f:
Seconds to the 1/2, 5/8, 3/4m?

Middle Distance 7.5f to 1m 70 yards
Seconds to the 1/2, and 3/4m?

Routes 8.5f and up?
Seconds to the 1/2, 3/4, 1m?

ThanksI don't believe the Hat uses "pace figures." He does use 6 2/5 seconds as an adjustment for each half furlong. So if you were going to adjust a 6 furlong race to 6 1/2 you would add 6 2/5s seconds to the final time, etc. For longer races you might add (or subtract) 2 or 3 fifths of a second for deceleration.

The Hat just uses the raw fractional times unadjusted for lengths.

[RichieP]

I don't believe the Hat uses "pace figures." He does use 6 2/5 seconds as an adjustment for each half furlong. So if you were going to adjust a 6 furlong race to 6 1/2 you would add 6 2/5s seconds to the final time, etc. For longer races you might add (or subtract) 2 or 3 fifths of a second for deceleration.

The Hat just uses the raw fractional times unadjusted for lengths.

Well put and 100% accurate. Jim's 8.3f adjustments were:

From 8f to 8.3f add 4.2 seconds
From 8.3f to 8.5f add 2 seconds

[Capper Al]

Okay forget about The Hat. I just remembered him adjusting the figures. The question still is what are the expectations using seconds not pace figures for Sprints, Middle Distances, and Routes? Does 12 seconds a furlong hold up?

I don't believe the Hat uses "pace figures." He does use 6 2/5 seconds as an adjustment for each half furlong. So if you were going to adjust a 6 furlong race to 6 1/2 you would add 6 2/5s seconds to the final time, etc. For longer races you might add (or subtract) 2 or 3 fifths of a second for deceleration.

The Hat just uses the raw fractional times unadjusted for lengths.

[barn32]

Okay forget about The Hat. I just remembered him adjusting the figures. The question still is what are the expectations using seconds not pace figures for Sprints, Middle Distances, and Routes? Does 12 seconds a furlong hold up?You know, to be honest with you, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.

If you're asking what a typical furlong would be run in, say, a 6f race, then that would depend on a lot of things--track, surface, etc.

If you're asking something else, I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure what it is, so I don't know what to say.

[Capper Al]

You know, to be honest with you, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.

If you're asking what a typical furlong would be run in, say, a 6f race, then that would depend on a lot of things--track, surface, etc.

If you're asking something else, I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure what it is, so I don't know what to say.


I'm asking what are typical furlongs run at the points of calls, in general, for sprints, middle distances, and routes. Of course, this would be by surface. I'm looking for a rule of thumb. This information would be good to know with the Breeders' Cup coming and the Foreign invaders.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Al,

I know what you're talking about because I've been there.I usually only make adjustments to common distances,sprints and routes.When going from 1 to 2 turns subjective judgement(unless you are talking energy concepts)works best than adjusting quarter and half mile expectations to half mile-three quarter mile expectations.

What I do could be concidered oversimplified and slightly to largely inaccurate but I think it suffices well.Using the formula of 1 length=10 feet=one-fifth of a second,I just divide the distance by 10 feet,for instance;

Furlong=660 feet(divided by 10)=66 fifths of a second(divided by 5(=fifths in a second)=13.1(the post decimal is in fifths of a second)

Half furlong=330 feet/10=33 fifths/5=6.3

For every 16th of a mile the adjustment is 6.3 seconds.For every furlong or 8th of a mile the adjustment is 13.1.For instance;

5.5 furlongs=106.3 + 6.3=113.1 for a 6f projection

6f=112.2 - 13.1=59.1 for 5f.

The route times are 6.3 from a 1m to a 1m-16th,4.1 for 1m to 1-70yards.

[Capper Al]

Thanks

Al,

I know what you're talking about because I've been there.I usually only make adjustments to common distances,sprints and routes.When going from 1 to 2 turns subjective judgement(unless you are talking energy concepts)works best than adjusting quarter and half mile expectations to half mile-three quarter mile expectations.

What I do could be concidered oversimplified and slightly to largely inaccurate but I think it suffices well.Using the formula of 1 length=10 feet=one-fifth of a second,I just divide the distance by 10 feet,for instance;

Furlong=660 feet(divided by 10)=66 fifths of a second(divided by 5(=fifths in a second)=13.1(the post decimal is in fifths of a second)

Half furlong=330 feet/10=33 fifths/5=6.3

For every 16th of a mile the adjustment is 6.3 seconds.For every furlong or 8th of a mile the adjustment is 13.1.For instance;

5.5 furlongs=106.3 + 6.3=113.1 for a 6f projection

6f=112.2 - 13.1=59.1 for 5f.

The route times are 6.3 from a 1m to a 1m-16th,4.1 for 1m to 1-70yards.

[rufus999]

There is no short cut to success in the numbers/time/pace game. I don't understand what you hope to achieve through gleaning knowledge from others that you can't do on your own. Study the WO times at the tracks in DRF or similar rag sheet. Over time you will know what is considered a good WO time at each track. I like to use the time coupled with the ranking of the horse for that day at that distance particularly if thirty or more hoses worked out. If I convert to Beyer I fraction a point adjustment based on probable track variant. I assume a point upgrade for race performance conditions and also for fillies and mares. ( a filly that can hold her own against colts is a definite plus.). Forgive me if this sounds a bit condensed but I'm talking through years of this stuff.:cool:

rufus:9::9::9:

[Capper Al]

There is no short cut to success in the numbers/time/pace game. I don't understand what you hope to achieve through gleaning knowledge from others that you can't do on your own. Study the WO times at the tracks in DRF or similar rag sheet. Over time you will know what is considered a good WO time at each track. I like to use the time coupled with the ranking of the horse for that day at that distance particularly if thirty or more hoses worked out. If I convert to Beyer I fraction a point adjustment based on probable track variant. I assume a point upgrade for race performance conditions and also for fillies and mares. ( a filly that can hold her own against colts is a definite plus.). Forgive me if this sounds a bit condensed but I'm talking through years of this stuff.:cool:

rufus:9::9::9:

I agree with you. There are just so many more questions than time to figure them out. I work, taking a computer class, and modifying my C++ to include pace figures. Meanwhile, I work with several home grown spreadsheets that interpret the data from my C++ program. I was just trying to get lucky and save some time.