The Daily Grind

[cj's dad]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason racing is dying in the USA is due to the fact that there are simply too many races at too many tracks with too few entries.

In the last several months I have been to the Arkansas Derby, Belmont Stakes, JCGC and Maryland Million. All of these are "events" to one degree or another and the crowds were large (JCGC being the smallest, but the weather hurt) and there was obvious interest in the racing card from casual fans. The point is that there is interest in racing when there is an attraction. The interest simply cannot be there on a daily basis from the casual fan.
The "daily grind" of racing every day in venues across America has taken its toll. How in the world does management attract fans to the track on Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday etc... to see 5 field 5K maiden claimers. The answer is that it can't. Most in this country work (well that may change shortly) and have no ways or means or desire to attend on a daily basis. Go the the track in mid-week and you will see the same hard core gamblers in the same location, cursing at the same TV monitor. And most are 50+ yrs of age if not higher. Who will be there as these folks die off or lose interest or go broke??

Racing days at every track in America need to be cut, meets shortened, national dark days (Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday ?) etc...

There has to be a reason to go to the track and right now with the exception of the big events there is none.

[Bubba X]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason racing is dying in the USA is due to the fact that there are simply too many races at too many tracks with too few entries.

In the last several months I have been to the Arkansas Derby, Belmont Stakes, JCGC and Maryland Million. All of these are "events" to one degree or another and the crowds were large (JCGC being the smallest, but the weather hurt) and there was obvious interest in the racing card from casual fans. The point is that there is interest in racing when there is an attraction. The interest simply cannot be there on a daily basis from the casual fan.
The "daily grind" of racing every day in venues across America has taken its toll. How in the world does management attract fans to the track on Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday etc... to see 5 field 5K maiden claimers. The answer is that it can't. Most in this country work (well that may change shortly) and have no ways or means or desire to attend on a daily basis. Go the the track in mid-week and you will see the same hard core gamblers in the same location, cursing at the same TV monitor. And most are 50+ yrs of age if not higher. Who will be there as these folks die off or lose interest or go broke??

Racing days at every track in America need to be cut, meets shortened, national dark days (Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday ?) etc...

There has to be a reason to go to the track and right now with the exception of the big events there is none.I agree 100%. It used to be a big deal to go to opening day. Now, it's just another 1,000 people who show up as opposed to the simulcast crew. I really do not understand the economics of the 5k claimer. How people can carry the cost of a cheap horse with such a negative expectation is beyond me. I'd be glad to see 4 day a week racing 10 months a year.

[Charlie D]

Today i bet Keenland, yesterday Philly, Sunday Longchamp


All from the comfort of my home via my PC

There are many people like me doing the same

This is the now and the future and if racing wants to survive it needs to open it's doors to internet betting for ALL

[mannyberrios]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason racing is dying in the USA is due to the fact that there are simply too many races at too many tracks with too few entries.

In the last several months I have been to the Arkansas Derby, Belmont Stakes, JCGC and Maryland Million. All of these are "events" to one degree or another and the crowds were large (JCGC being the smallest, but the weather hurt) and there was obvious interest in the racing card from casual fans. The point is that there is interest in racing when there is an attraction. The interest simply cannot be there on a daily basis from the casual fan.
The "daily grind" of racing every day in venues across America has taken its toll. How in the world does management attract fans to the track on Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday etc... to see 5 field 5K maiden claimers. The answer is that it can't. Most in this country work (well that may change shortly) and have no ways or means or desire to attend on a daily basis. Go the the track in mid-week and you will see the same hard core gamblers in the same location, cursing at the same TV monitor. And most are 50+ yrs of age if not higher. Who will be there as these folks die off or lose interest or go broke??

Racing days at every track in America need to be cut, meets shortened, national dark days (Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday ?) etc...

There has to be a reason to go to the track and right now with the exception of the big events there is none.Great post sir. That is a very difficult question to answer,because all tracks need their five days of racing to make a profit, and the serious players need as many days as possible to stay on top.

[cj's dad]

Great post sir. That is a very difficult question to answer,because all tracks need their five days of racing to make a profit, and the serious players need as many days as possible to stay on top.

I disagree that tracks need 5 days a week- every day a track is open creates overhead which cannot be covered by the on track handle which includes parking, entry, concessions. etc...

Fewer racing days= less overhead, hopefully bigger fields, maybe more interest.

I remember when it was a treat to see the Saturday Game of the week (baseball) or an out of your local conference College basketball game, or when the NFL showed your local team on TV because the blackout was lifted due to a sellout. Oversaturation has hurt many of the sports today on TV- the same is causing the death of live racing. It's a matter of making the public hungry for your product. As far as the T'breds; I'm full for now.

[The Hawk]

I disagree that tracks need 5 days a week- every day a track is open creates overhead which cannot be covered by the on track handle which includes parking, entry, concessions. etc...

Fewer racing days= less overhead, hopefully bigger fields, maybe more interest.

I remember when it was a treat to see the Saturday Game of the week (baseball) or an out of your local conference College basketball game, or when the NFL showed your local team on TV because the blackout was lifted due to a sellout. Oversaturation has hurt many of the sports today on TV- the same is causing the death of live racing. It's a matter of making the public hungry for your product. As far as the T'breds; I'm full for now.

Great post, exceeded in quality only by the opener in this thread. Hopefully, the tracks will come to this realization before our game becomes jai-alai, with 14 "frontons" twice a day, 6 days a week.

[Imriledup]

All this stems from racing not having a national body, like the NFL has a commissioner. No one owns 'racing', its just its own seperate entertainment league with no rules. You get a license and you open up a building with a dirt circle and you run horses around in that circle so people can pay you 20 cents on the dollar to wager on them.

Think about that commission, 20 cents on a dollar for the right to bet on 6 horse fields of horses who aren't even worth what the biggest bettors are wagering on them. A Whale might bet 10k or more on a race where the entire field of horses isnt worth 10 combined.

The only way this can get done is if the federal government stepped in and ordered each state to only give a racing license to track owners who are willing to be part of a national governing body that decides how many racing dates are doled out, and stuff like that.

The problem is how can you get a national racing body with enough leadership that can actually implement strict rules on cheating trainers and such?

You get Steve Crist, Andy Beyer and a few other heavyweights in the industry and a horseplayers co-op representatives and come up with a national racing office that tells everyone what they can and cannot do.

Anything less than this will result in the cash grab from tracks who are running horse races as an excuse to get people to gamble. Most of these track owners can care less about horse racing and horses and the people in the game, all they care about is getting your 20 cents per dollar on your wagers. They would run hamsters in a little treadmill if they thought you would bet on it.

Racing is going in the toilet because no one really cares about RACING and very few care about the horses who compete and the humans who work in the game. Just give me my 20 percent and i can care less how i get it.

[samyn on the green]

Good post. It would be good for the overall health of the game if a few tracks are allowed to fail. Unfortunately half of our unit is on slot life support and they are seriously slowing down the healthy troops by siphoning entries and handle away from the good tracks. This is like an army unit with half of the troops on a respirator and the the other half having to tend to them.


I have come to the conclusion that the reason racing is dying in the USA is due to the fact that there are simply too many races at too many tracks with too few entries.

In the last several months I have been to the Arkansas Derby, Belmont Stakes, JCGC and Maryland Million. All of these are "events" to one degree or another and the crowds were large (JCGC being the smallest, but the weather hurt) and there was obvious interest in the racing card from casual fans. The point is that there is interest in racing when there is an attraction. The interest simply cannot be there on a daily basis from the casual fan.
The "daily grind" of racing every day in venues across America has taken its toll. How in the world does management attract fans to the track on Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday etc... to see 5 field 5K maiden claimers. The answer is that it can't. Most in this country work (well that may change shortly) and have no ways or means or desire to attend on a daily basis. Go the the track in mid-week and you will see the same hard core gamblers in the same location, cursing at the same TV monitor. And most are 50+ yrs of age if not higher. Who will be there as these folks die off or lose interest or go broke??

Racing days at every track in America need to be cut, meets shortened, national dark days (Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday ?) etc...

There has to be a reason to go to the track and right now with the exception of the big events there is none.

[SMOO]

Excellent thread. Less races with more horses is what we need.

And how about staggering the post times so all the races don't go off at the same time?

And more night racing would be nice too, unjam the days that way.

[garyoz]

The only way this can get done is if the federal government stepped in and ordered each state to only give a racing license to track owners who are willing to be part of a national governing body that decides how many racing dates are doled out, and stuff like that..


I think the Feds have a few more pressing problems right now.... Ridiculous, not to mention infringing upon state's rights and private enterprise. :bang:

[ghostyapper]

And more night racing would be nice too, unjam the days that way.

Definitely all for that, especially in the summer. For people with full time jobs, there is almost no way to follow a track on a day to day basis.

[jotb]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason racing is dying in the USA is due to the fact that there are simply too many races at too many tracks with too few entries.

In the last several months I have been to the Arkansas Derby, Belmont Stakes, JCGC and Maryland Million. All of these are "events" to one degree or another and the crowds were large (JCGC being the smallest, but the weather hurt) and there was obvious interest in the racing card from casual fans. The point is that there is interest in racing when there is an attraction. The interest simply cannot be there on a daily basis from the casual fan.
The "daily grind" of racing every day in venues across America has taken its toll. How in the world does management attract fans to the track on Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday etc... to see 5 field 5K maiden claimers. The answer is that it can't. Most in this country work (well that may change shortly) and have no ways or means or desire to attend on a daily basis. Go the the track in mid-week and you will see the same hard core gamblers in the same location, cursing at the same TV monitor. And most are 50+ yrs of age if not higher. Who will be there as these folks die off or lose interest or go broke??

Racing days at every track in America need to be cut, meets shortened, national dark days (Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday ?) etc...

There has to be a reason to go to the track and right now with the exception of the big events there is none.


At the present time in North America and Canada there are presently 32 racetracks that are running. Out of the 32 tracks only 12 are running 5 days a week and the other 20 run 4 or less days a week. If every racetrack cards 9 races per day then the approximate amount of races per week is around 1,260. If the average (and I'm just guessing) has 7 horses per race then that means 8,820 horses run each week. Every Monday out of the 32 tracks 11 tracks are opened and on Tuesday 9 tracks are opened. There are 8 tracks that run both Monday and Tuesday. This amounts to 72 races for each day when they run both days and tack on 36 more races for when these tracks are dark on Monday or a tuesday. Out of the 32 tracks 12 tracks are opened on Wednesdays for another 108 races. The total amount of races and horses that run on a Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday roughly amounts to 288 races and 2,016 racehorses. So basically you want to eliminate 288 races per week and stop 2,016 horses from running. This is roughly 23%.

Joe

[cj]

At the present time in North America and Canada there are presently 32 racetracks that are running. Out of the 32 tracks only 12 are running 5 days a week and the other 20 run 4 or less days a week. If every racetrack cards 9 races per day then the approximate amount of races per week is around 1,260. If the average (and I'm just guessing) has 7 horses per race then that means 8,820 horses run each week. Every Monday out of the 32 tracks 11 tracks are opened and on Tuesday 9 tracks are opened. There are 8 tracks that run both Monday and Tuesday. This amounts to 72 races for each day when they run both days and tack on 36 more races for when these tracks are dark on Monday or a tuesday. Out of the 32 tracks 12 tracks are opened on Wednesdays for another 108 races. The total amount of races and horses that run on a Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday roughly amounts to 288 races and 2,016 racehorses. So basically you want to eliminate 288 races per week and stop 2,016 horses from running. This is roughly 23%.

Joe

Why can't they just run in different races? The races are too diluted right now.

[The Hawk]

Why can't they just run in different races? The races are too diluted right now.

EXACTLY the point. They run another day, which means a larger field for that race, which means A) more handle and B) less expense for the track.

The biggest reasons it doesn't happen are because the horsemen are too strong, and the states control the racing dates, and we all know how that goes.

[Bruddah]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason racing is dying in the USA is due to the fact that there are simply too many races at too many tracks with too few entries.

In the last several months I have been to the Arkansas Derby, Belmont Stakes, JCGC and Maryland Million. All of these are "events" to one degree or another and the crowds were large (JCGC being the smallest, but the weather hurt) and there was obvious interest in the racing card from casual fans. The point is that there is interest in racing when there is an attraction. The interest simply cannot be there on a daily basis from the casual fan.
The "daily grind" of racing every day in venues across America has taken its toll. How in the world does management attract fans to the track on Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday etc... to see 5 field 5K maiden claimers. The answer is that it can't. Most in this country work (well that may change shortly) and have no ways or means or desire to attend on a daily basis. Go the the track in mid-week and you will see the same hard core gamblers in the same location, cursing at the same TV monitor. And most are 50+ yrs of age if not higher. Who will be there as these folks die off or lose interest or go broke??

Racing days at every track in America need to be cut, meets shortened, national dark days (Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday ?) etc...

There has to be a reason to go to the track and right now with the exception of the big events there is none.


You have raised one smart old dude for a Father. :ThmbUp: :D

[barn32]

When I was a kid first playing the races they ran 10 horses to a race, and they were very cheap races. But they were full fields like 98% of the time.

[maxwell]

Other than holidays, 99 % of the racing on Mon. and Tues. is minor quality or worse. The Wed. to Fri. crowd ( major and midlevel racing ) sure needs some revamping. But how? Racing sat on its hands for 20 years and the world of 'Convenience Gambling' passed it by.

If people could play a Santa Anita 'Quick-Pik-Six' at their local gas bar or variety store, that would probably do the trick. That's what racing is up against.

I think it's the greatest game in the world ... too bad most of the world doesn't think so. :(

[jotb]

The reason why there is racing everyday of the week is to accommodate the gambler. Sports betting is the same way. Years ago, I dont remember Sunday night football games and I don't believe we always had Monday night football games. Many people that gamble want the action all the time. If horseplayers would take Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday off (stop wagering) maybe the tracks would be forced to shut on these days. There are way too many degenerate gamblers in the world. These are the people that are the first to complain when live racing is cancelled because of bad weather. They will bitch and moan that it's the jockeys fault why there is no racing. They don't care about the safety for jockey and horse. They are the selfish ones and only care about their immediate needs (that is to gamble) and they will find that fix in some type of form.

Joe

[cj]

The reason why there is racing everyday of the week is to accommodate the gambler. Sports betting is the same way. Years ago, I dont remember Sunday night football games and I don't believe we always had Monday night football games. Many people that gamble want the action all the time. If horseplayers would take Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday off (stop wagering) maybe the tracks would be forced to shut on these days. There are way too many degenerate gamblers in the world. These are the people that are the first to complain when live racing is cancelled because of bad weather. They will bitch and moan that it's the jockeys fault why there is no racing. They don't care about the safety for jockey and horse. They are the selfish ones and only care about their immediate needs (that is to gamble) and they will find that fix in some type of form.

Joe

I don't buy that at all. The reason there are so many races is for the horsemen.

[Greyfox]

There is no law saying that anyone must bet every race every day.
I for one refuse to play races with less than 8 horses, if I can possibly help it.
I will play a pick 3 or pick 4 if one of the races has less than 8.
Betting on 4 and 5 horse races just because they are there is just plain stupid. It's no problem for me to refuse to put a nickel on them.
Stop betting on those offerings and management will get the message.
Looking over a card the evening before gives me an idea as to whether or not I should even bother with the ponies or go fishing instead.
Also, I focus on A level tracks when they are offering full fields.
****
Bettors have a responsibility to take control of themselves in order to influence racing management and the horsemen.
If no one is buying a product, then like in any other industry, changes will have to be made.
Horse players keep pointing the finger at management.
Wrong. Horse players have to start pointing the finger at themselves.
Otherwise, management will continue to keep offering crappy fields and races as long as money is to be made from offering them.

[cj]

Have you checked out the handles lately? People have stopped betting.

[Greyfox]

Have you checked out the handles lately? People have stopped betting.

In a global melt down of world markets, that's no surprise.
Each and everyone of us has to stop "voting" with our dollars, when short fields are ran. If that means, only 7 races per day at a track, so be it.
It may well be that some tracks will have to shut down simply due to the laws of supply and demand. For instance, Hollywood Park appears to be gone in 2010 as the land that it is on is worth more as another type of real estate development.

[jotb]

Have you checked out the handles lately? People have stopped betting.

The handles are lower but it's not because of the small fields. There is just to much to gamble on today so people have alot more ways to go. It's in your face all the time. When I was growing up there was no internet poker playing. The kids today rather sit by the computer and play texas hold-em all day instead of playing the races. It's easier for them and in their minds the buck goes alot further.

Joe

[Charlie D]

Bettors have a responsibility to take control of themselves in order to influence racing management and the horsemen.


Totally agree, but i also agree with CJ


The more races there are, a lot more uncompetitive the races become, the more chance you have of winning Purse money


Who do these uncompetitive races benefit most? The Horsemen

[Charlie D]

The handles are lower but it's not because of the small fields. There is just to much to gamble on today so people have alot more ways to go. It's in your face all the time. When I was growing up there was no internet poker playing. The kids today rather sit by the computer and play texas hold-em all day instead of playing the races. It's easier for them and in their minds the buck goes alot further.

Joe


Yes, the handles are lower because of competition from other betting mediums, but high take out, lack of integrity, restrictions, paying for basic information also contribute

Racing industry needs to wake up,

As you say the kids today would rather play Texas Hold em all day and who can blame them

[jotb]

I don't buy that at all. The reason there are so many races is for the horsemen.

Hello CJ.

I could explain this whole topic much easier through verbal communication. I'm a terrible writer and have difficulty getting to the point. The topic was about racing is a dying industry because there are just too many races at too many racetrack with too few entries. The answer to the problem according to the thread starter would be to have national dark days (Mon, Tue, and Wed) and to have shorter meets.

I tried to explain in my reply that many of the racetracks are running 4 days a week already and as far as Monday and Tuesday go, there are not that many tracks operating on these days but did notice that if we didn't have these days we would have 23% less races and horses running each week. Your reply was "why don't they run in different races"? I didn't reply back to that question but did explain why we have racing on Monday and Tuesday but your reply was " I don't buy that at all". "The reason there are so many races is for the horsemen".

Can the racing industry shut down on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday? My answer to this is yes but those 2,000 plus horses and those 288 races need to be added into the Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday cards. Let's start with just the Monday and Tuesday racetracks that operate now. On Monday and Tuesday racing right now there is roughly 180 races and roughly 1,260 horses (average 7 horses per race). Since these racetracks operate on these days all that needs to be done is open the racetracks on the days that these racetracks are closed. The racetracks (12) that operate on Wednesdays amount to 108 races and 756 horses. All they need to do is add these races to the other days so instead of having 9 race cards on Thursday, Friday, Sat, and Sun you run 11 races on each day. Now is the problem settled? Of course not. You still have the problem that there is still too many races and racetracks and not enough horses for each race according to the thread starter.

In order for me to solve the problem and make the CJ'S DAD happy, I need to know how many racetracks (and which ones specifically) do we need to shut down or shorten up (how many calender days) for each track? I need to also know how many racehorses are in North America and Canada broken down to each state and province. If the goal is have more horses in races to attract the people, I can't come up with a solution without this info. Keep in mind that we have to accommodate both the horseplayer and the people that work in the industry. So, when you come up with this information for me (not trying to be a smart guy here) then, I could better explain if it can be done or not.

Lastly, I just wanted to throw something at you to chomp on. Charles Town racetrack just a few years back was running 5 days a week and we were taking more entries in one day than any other racetrack in North America. This is no exaggeration CJ, but some of the races in the book had as many as 50 horses going into one race. Almost every race in the book was overfilling meaning horses were excluded constantly. The only way a horse could make the body of the race is if you had a good date. Even once you established a date it was difficult to still get into the body. Many owners had to wait upwards of 6 weeks to get into a race. Of course the reason for this madness was because of the purse structure. The other tracks outside of West Virginia like Maryland, PA, and Del were opened at the same time. We don't have as many entries today like we did but there are still races overfilling each day. Once PA. got the slots it slowed up some. There are a few other reasons why people don't ship to CT as much as they did but that's another story for another day. Anyway, please try to collect some infor for me so that I can further explain why this problem can be resolved or not.

Thanks and best regards,
Joe

[Tom]

The resolution is very simple - people stop playing horses. Thousands and thousands have already done it. More will join them. the entire industry has failed to recognize who their customers are - it is not the horsemen, yet you would never know it.

[cj]

jotb,

Thanks for taking the time. I understand your point of view. It is not up for me to decide what tracks to close. One of the biggest problems of the game right now is that slots money is propping up too many tracks like Charlestown that very few care about. Keep in mind I cut my betting teeth there and I love the place. But, places like Delaware, Mountaineer, Charlestown, and Presque Isle are siphoning off too many horses. Monmouth is being artificially supported by the casinos.

Regardless of the purses, which are great for horsemen, "racinos" are simply removing too many horses from fields at tracks people want to bet. Either the tracks without slot handouts need to cause others to shut down, or the slot handouts need to go away. My guess is the latter will eventually happen. In this day of economic collapse, why are millions going to support horsemen in an industry that very few really care about? Politicians aren't usually very bright, but they will eventually figure this one out.

Slots money gives tracks absolutely no incentive to attract horseplayers by improving the product. It is usually the opposite. The racing is run as an afterthought.

[Donnie]

Coming from the land of the first Racino, I agree with you on this point, CJ....

Either the tracks without slot handouts need to cause others to shut down, or the slot handouts need to go away. My guess is the latter will eventually happen.

Every year the track is challenged as to why do we continue to race even though millions of dollars are being "lost" that come in thru the casino doors to the horses . Last night the wife and I went to the casino, no problem getting on any of the slots you would want to play. Visually, a person could easily tell business was down. As we fire up the horses next Spring, with revenues down, it will harder to justify the racing aspect of the business. I fear, at PRM, our days may be numbered. As much as I would dearly miss the live racing, it would benefit the other tracks around us.

On your second point in this next quote, I have to respectfully disagree....

Politicians aren't usually very bright, but they will eventually figure this one out.

The only way they firgure it out is if it means harm to them and their income. Whatever happened to securing the borders? The people rose up and it became the topic de jour. If it weren't for the Stock Market doing a total collapse, they wouldn't care at all on Capital Hill. I will not vote for ONE incumbant on the ballot in 3 weeks. We need a CLEAN SWEEP! Both sides of the aisle, both Senate and Congress. Or maybe we need some more commissions on Steroids in baseball? That should satisfy the constituents! After all, we got soooooo much out of the Eight Belles investigation. What a waste of time/money.

[rrbauer]

Great thread. Good to see so many people coming around to logical conclusions about the key problems with the industry. Personally, I have gone from playing almost every day (used to take Tuesday's off until Tampa came on the national scene) to playing a few days a month. I recall when I was going to the live venues every day how each day seemed like a new adventure. Eight or nine races provided plenty of opportunities.

Then simulcasting came along and I could easily attack a couple tracks each day. But, I started "burning out" after a few weeks of that and would need a couple days off to get refreshed and then repeat the cycle. Then online betting surfaced and it was like a big all-you-can-eat buffet. If fact it was a more-than-you-can-eat buffet!

Now I've gone from betting mid-six figures each year to maybe betting $60K this year. Many days I don't even look at the entries. Since I spent some 40 years around the game in California sometimes I turn on TVG to get a look at what's going on there and here comes the opener at Oak Tree with a 6-horse field, followed by the 2nd race with 5 horses. I don't even bother with a pp download.

I remember what Horatio Luro used to say about not running his horses too frequently, because he didn't want "to squeeze the lemon dry". I can see in the downward trend of betting handle, a lot of reasons as noted by the posts in this thread; and, the bettors looking out for their lemons is another one.

[jotb]

jotb,

Thanks for taking the time. I understand your point of view. It is not up for me to decide what tracks to close. One of the biggest problems of the game right now is that slots money is propping up too many tracks like Charlestown that very few care about. Keep in mind I cut my betting teeth there and I love the place. But, places like Delaware, Mountaineer, Charlestown, and Presque Isle are siphoning off too many horses. Monmouth is being artificially supported by the casinos.

Regardless of the purses, which are great for horsemen, "racinos" are simply removing too many horses from fields at tracks people want to bet. Either the tracks without slot handouts need to cause others to shut down, or the slot handouts need to go away. My guess is the latter will eventually happen. In this day of economic collapse, why are millions going to support horsemen in an industry that very few really care about? Politicians aren't usually very bright, but they will eventually figure this one out.

Slots money gives tracks absolutely no incentive to attract horseplayers by improving the product. It is usually the opposite. The racing is run as an afterthought.

I thought maybe someone besides you might come out with the information that I requested. I know it's not easy to find out how many racehorses there are in North America and Canada but it's not to difficult to hear from others what tracks should shut down or shorten their meets. Anyway, the DRF website shows 83 racetracks. I have more in my database but some of these tracks are closed for good or run maybe a couple of times a year. Some are fairs, hurdle or 1/4 horse meets. Out of the 83 racetracks 28 are in different states and 6 are in Canada. The state of California has 16 tracks but 7 of them are the fairs. KY comes in second with 5 racetracks. IL, LA, and NY come in with 4. NM, NJ, MD, OH, OK, FL, TX, PA, and AZ have 3 racetracks. WA, WV, NE, MI, IN, AND MD have 2 racetracks and the rest CO, MN, VA, DE, AR, OR, IA, MA and KS have 1 racetrack. Excluding Canada (because they only have 6 tracks) which states that only have one racetrack or states that have several racetracks should close or shorten their meets? Just an example here. In Kentucky for 2008 the year went as follows: Turfway Park from Jan 1 thru Apr 3. Keeneland Apr 4 thru Apr 25. Churchill 4-26 thru Jul 6. Ellis Park Jul 4 thru Sep 1. Turfway Park Sept 3 thru Oct 2. Kentucky Downs Sep 13- Sep 23. Keeneland 10-3 thru 10-25, Churchill 10-26 thru 11-29 and Turfway 11-30 thru 12-31. This is a full calender year in Kentucky. What track should be left out or shorten?

What good did the slots do for the horseman at CT? Since the slots have been at Charlestown, the majority of the races are won by the people outside of the racetrack. There are 144 trainers on the grounds with 1,500 horses in 21 barns. They have live racing 4 days a week with 9 race cards. Maybe in those 3 nights and 1 day (Sun.) of racing they have at most 360 horses running each week. I would think at least 90 horses are not on the grounds (coming in from MD, PA, VA, DE, and from the farms). You only have 36 winners per week and 50% of the winners are not on the grounds. We ran about 183 days so far this year. That's about 1,647 races. If 50% of the horses that win are not from CT then the other 823 races were. Out of those 823 there are 5 trainers that are in the top 10 on the grounds that have accumulated 226 wins. That leaves almost 600 winners for the rest of the 139 trainers that are stabled here. Many trainers at CT are hanging by a thread. Many of the horses at CT are running just to pick up a check at best. Check out every open MSW, ALW, and STK result here at CT this year (excluding WV Bred races) and you will have a pretty good idea who gets the money.

Joe

[rokitman]

Field size is going to have a relativity to the number of purse pay-out positions. Particularly, the number significant purse pay-out positions. Simply, a 12 horse field means more owners and trainers run for little or no pay than in an 8 horse field. And adding a percent or two for coming in 5th or 6th, or paying $50 or $100 to every starter, does not change that in a meaningful way, unless 1 or 2% of the purse miraculously becomes a Hong Kong scale sum of money. It's been done, to no avail, as should be expected. Any change in purse structure significant enough to raise field size is going to have to come out of your pocket- unless horse racing can "break" on TV, which it can't seem to do- and we know where we stand on that. We're already getting take-outed to death. Maybe if tracks got the price of keeping a horse at the track way down from the current Hilton-like levels it would help. Ditto the price of acquiring a horse. All the reasons that we put up large sums of money and only a few horse show up to compete for it are man-made. Thoroughbreds run fast for free. The greed, incompetence, short-sightedness and lack of insightful leadership that gave us our current banking mess has long been evidenced in horse racing. But in our case, the government doesn't give a shit. And, one-by-one, people who once loved being in this fierce competition of ours feel the same way.

[cj's dad]

Hello CJ.



Lastly, I just wanted to throw something at you to chomp on. Charles Town racetrack just a few years back was running 5 days a week and we were taking more entries in one day than any other racetrack in North America. This is no exaggeration CJ, but some of the races in the book had as many as 50 horses going into one race. Almost every race in the book was overfilling meaning horses were excluded constantly. The only way a horse could make the body of the race is if you had a good date. Even once you established a date it was difficult to still get into the body. Many owners had to wait upwards of 6 weeks to get into a race. Thanks and best regards,
Joe

Joe,

There is a friend of mine (Mark Nunnely) who owned some horses @ CT trained by Kim Knobloch (think thats the right name) and his constant complaint was that he simply could not get his horses in without a lengthy wait BUT the upside was the purse structure compared to Md. and Pa.

[jotb]

Joe,

There is a friend of mine (Mark Nunnely) who owned some horses @ CT trained by Kim Knobloch (think thats the right name) and his constant complaint was that he simply could not get his horses in without a lengthy wait BUT the upside was the purse structure compared to Md. and Pa.

Yes, Kim Knoblauch did train for Mark. A couple of names that come to mind were Saturday Coming, Tungo, and Phoenix Knight. Yes, the purse structure was the upside.

Joe