Video proof that Democrats are at the root of today's major ills?

[PaceAdvantage]

You decide:

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[JustRalph]

I 2nd the motion.............. !!

[mostpost]

On October 5,2008 Pace Advantage posted a video titled "Democrats lied us into the Iraq war!!!!. What a bunch of nonsense! The first few clips from 1998 featured Clinton Administration officials speaking of WMD's. But nowhere was there heard a suggestion to invade Iraq. The clips from 2002 and 2003 featured Democratic leaders reacting to information they had been fed by Bush and his cronies. Information that was shown to have been "fixed to fit the agenda" of the Bush administration. And despite what was said by President Bush about a bi-partisan Senate committee, subsequent evidence was strong that the administration put heavy pressure on the CIA to find links between Saddam and Al Queda. There was also the forged documents attributed to the Italian intelligence service, the yellow cake fiasco. and the misinformation on the aluminum tubes.

It is true that the democrats were stampeded into echoing the propaganda fed them by Bush and Cheney and, in retrospect, they should have been much more cynical. This video makes it appear that the democrats were screaming for war and George Bush was holding back like a reluctant school girl on her first date. The fact is; George Bush was President; Condaleeza Rice was National Security Adviser, Donald Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense, and ALL of their efforts were focused on involving us in war in Iraq.

One last thing; therenis one person who is not in any of the video clips: Barach Obama Next President of the United States.

Surely, you can do better than this. Sorry, I forgot, you're Republicans!

[rastajenk]

The 1998 clips were in support of a Resolution In Support of Regime Change in Iraq. How were we going to do it, put Saddam in the well of the Senate and talk him to death?

[delayjf]

It might interest you to know that Obama has opined that had he received the same intel reports that the Senate had, he doesn't know what he would have done.

The difference between 1998 - 2002 was 9/11 (not to mention the USS Cole). Those events changed things significantly. The issue for the majority of American people is not a disagreement with regards to preemptive military action against a rogue nation with WMD, - Americans were behind the invasion at the time. The issue was that our intel was wrong. However, If you personally believe that the US should never had invaded Iraq even if Iraq was developing WMD - that's your opinion, but at least you cannot tell me that President Bush lied about the intel when the previous administration was saying EXACTLY the same thing.

[JustRalph]

The 1998 clips were in support of a Resolution In Support of Regime Change in Iraq. How were we going to do it, put Saddam in the well of the Senate and talk him to death?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :bang: :bang: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mostpost]

It might interest you to know that Obama has opined that had he received the same intel reports that the Senate had, he doesn't know what he would have done.

The difference between 1998 - 2002 was 9/11 (not to mention the USS Cole). Those events changed things significantly. The issue for the majority of American people is not a disagreement with regards to preemptive military action against a rogue nation with WMD, - Americans were behind the invasion at the time. The issue was that our intel was wrong. However, If you personally believe that the US should never had invaded Iraq even if Iraq was developing WMD - that's your opinion, but at least you cannot tell me that President Bush lied about the intel when the previous administration was saying EXACTLY the same thing.
I actually supported the war at the time. It was when I found out the facts that I changed my opinion. In other words I was wrong...then. Both administrations were concerned about WMD's but the sanctions imposed by Bush 1 and continued by Clinton had had an effect and UN inspections teams had been unable to find evidence of an ongoing program in Iraq by the time of Bush 2. GW was skeptical (or at least claimed he was) and as stated in my posting above put forth several claims which turned out to be not quite what he asserted.

You are absolutely correct that the events of 9/11 changed everything. It lead to a national fervor which could be and was manipulated for ideological (or perhaps personal reasons) and I was right there with them. Future events proved that the actions taken at the time vis a vis Irag were certainly counter productive, if not wrong.
Have a pleasant day.

[mostpost]

The 1998 clips were in support of a Resolution In Support of Regime Change in Iraq. How were we going to do it, put Saddam in the well of the Senate and talk him to death?

We were going to make him live with Nancy Pelosi!

And I'm a democrat!

[TrifectaMike]

One last thing; therenis one person who is not in any of the video clips: Barach Obama Next President of the United States.


I have asked numerous Obama supports the following question.

When and where did Obama vote against the Iraq war?

I have yet to receive an answer. Will someone please enlighten me.

[lamboguy]

lets face it, its always the democrats fault. its never going to be anyone else

[The Judge]

whats so diabolical about twisting the facts. Those that know the history are put in a position of defending the Democrats who you don't want to defend just to counter the propaganda. Bush wrap up in the flag along with his Republican cronies and said that anyone against the war or asked questions was UnAmerican this was anyone not just Democracts.

Not wanting to be painted with that bursh at re-election time they felt a few thousand dead was worth it. It kept their seat safe the hell with the people.

[delayjf]

It lead to a national fervor
And so it should have, at what point does a nation say enough is enough. We lost 5 thousand innocent civilian lives, which is right on par with Pearl Harbor.

[delayjf]

Bush wrap up in the flag along with his Republican cronies and said that anyone against the war or asked questions was UnAmerican this was anyone not just Democracts.

While I'm sure you believe this, I don't recall President Bush calling anyone unAmerican for simply opposing the war - please provide a link that quotes him as saying that.

[Rookies]

Ok. How about this one ?

Dick Cheney lied to me on war, says GOP leader (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/2008/09/cheney-lied.html)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/images/2008/09/16/cheney.jpg (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/16/cheney.jpg)

It is the central charge against the Bush White House, that the administration lied its way into a war in Iraq.

For years, left-wing pundits and groups like MoveOn.org beat the drums with this accusation. The White House response: We were just acting on the same intelligence everyone else had -- evidence, which turned out to be faulty, that Iraq's Saddam Hussein was harboring weapons of mass destruction.

Now comes Dick Armey, once House Majority Leader, who described a classified one-on-one briefing in the vice president's hideaway office in the U.S. Capitol where he says Vice President Dick Cheney (http://topics.latimes.com/politics/people/dick-cheney) went beyond that into outright deception.

According to a new book on Cheney called "Angler," (http://www.bartongellman.com/) by Washington Post reporter Barton Gellman, Armey, a Texas Republican, had spoken out against the war. Cheney was trying to change his mind. So the vice president told him the threat from Iraq was actually "more imminent than we want to portray to the public at large." In Armey's account, Cheney told him:

Iraq's "ability to miniaturize weapons of mass destruction, particularly nuclear," had been "substantially refined since the first Gulf War," and would soon result in "packages that could be moved even by ground personnel....We now know they have the ability to develop these weapons in a very portable fashion, and they have a delivery system in their relationship with organizations such as Al Qaeda."

"Did Dick Cheney ... purposely tell me things he knew to be untrue?" Armey said. "I seriously feel that may be the case...Had I known or believed then what I believe now, I would have publicly opposed [the war] resolution right to the bitter end, and I believe I might have stopped it from happening."

-- Johanna Neuman- http://www.latimes.com/images/standard/lat_logo_inner.gif (http://www.latimes.com/) National (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/)

[PaceAdvantage]

lets face it, its always the democrats fault. its never going to be anyone elseYeah, that's the way it's gone mostly to date. All blame has been on Democrats for everything....:lol: :bang: :faint:

[rastajenk]

How would the world look today if we hadn't acted to change the regime in Iraq? Worthless, toothless UN sanctions? A renewed effort in WMD's after inspection teams give them a pass? More pressure on Israel? More terrorism in general? What good would have happened if we relieved the pressure, or just ignored Saddam?

The decision to go in was the right one, regardless of subsequent findings.

[ddog]

You really believe there were only two ways to play it?

Either surrender or invade.

Just unbelievble to me, but I guess that's the thinking these days.

[The Judge]

Invade a country for no recognizable reason. Do you understand that other countries wouldn't join this little adventure.

This is from a country that has China as its biggest trading partner, we won't trade with Cuba because??? What a joke.

Threaten Russia because they don't want the U.S of A parking missiles next door to them. How reckless can you be. Oh thats right the U.S said it wasn't a threat to Russia to have Missiles next door, it was a question of sovereignty but Cuba can't have any missiles because its wrong. Explain that to me.

The U.S has no policy that it will follow, counties are afraid of the U.S even as they take the money, and this money comes with conditions.

[Tom]

It is wrong because we say it is.
End of story.

If you don't see the difference in why we want them there and not in Cuba, you are beyond talking to.

[delayjf]

Invade a country for no recognizable reason.
Unrecognizable to you perhaps.

So Rookie,
Was Madeline Albright, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Reid etc lying as well. Did Cheney make them do it?

[rastajenk]

You really believe there were only two ways to play it?

Either surrender or invade.

Just unbelievble to me, but I guess that's the thinking these days.
Tell me more, tell me more. You seem to have some suggestions, but have been unwilling to share them.

[PaceAdvantage]

Invade a country for no recognizable reason.Do you think guys like The Judge simply don't watch the video, or do they just ignore the contents because it's too difficult to explain away?

[rastajenk]

Still waiting for those alternative scenarios that could have played out.

[rrpic6]

Quite a fairytale thread. I'm going to watch the loosechange video again for some real facts. Does PA still have any threads going denying there is a recession?:lol:

RR

[alydar]

Invade a country for no recognizable reason. Do you understand that other countries wouldn't join this little adventure.

This is from a country that has China as its biggest trading partner, we won't trade with Cuba because??? What a joke.

Threaten Russia because they don't want the U.S of A parking missiles next door to them. How reckless can you be. Oh thats right the U.S said it wasn't a threat to Russia to have Missiles next door, it was a question of sovereignty but Cuba can't have any missiles because its wrong. Explain that to me.

The U.S has no policy that it will follow, counties are afraid of the U.S even as they take the money, and this money comes with conditions.

Well put.

Too many Americans never stop and ask how their actions are viewed by others. We may be the strongest militarily, but that is about it now. The Suadis and the Chinese call the shots now, since we do not have the disciplne to live within our means.

[ddog]

Tell me more, tell me more. You seem to have some suggestions, but have been unwilling to share them.


Ok, one , think it over.

What did Sad want , what did we have to offer?
You really don't see an alternative after GufWar1 other than no-fly zones and embargo?
Ask yourself, What did we want, basically?
You don't think there was a way to buy him off without a full scale assualt and occupation?
You don't think that the AFG "model" small team with locals out front on the ground couldn't have done at least as well as what turned out once we took down the whole gvt there?


There's much more but you should get the idea, if you are serious.

[ddog]

Today's Presidential Action


Today, President Bush announced a new goal to help increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million before the end of the decade. The President's aggressive housing agenda will help dismantle the barriers to homeownership by providing down payment assistance, increasing the supply of affordable homes, increasing support for self-help homeownership programs, and simplifying the home buying process & increasing education. The President also issued "America's Homeownership Challenge" to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to join in his effort to increase the number of minority homeowners by taking concrete steps to tear down the barriers to homeownership that face minority families.
Background on the President's Homeownership Agenda

Buying a home is the biggest single investment most people will make in their lives. Homeownership is a cornerstone of America's healthy, vibrant communities, and benefits individual families by helping them build stability and long term financial security. But sadly, homeownership is out of reach for many Americans -- especially for minority families. For millions of these families, homeownership is a distant, unreachable dream.

President Bush has a comprehensive agenda to help increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million before the end of the decade.

While the overall homeownership rate has reached an all time high of nearly 68 percent, the statistics show a clear and persistent homeownership gap:


Despite increases in minority homeownership during the decade of the 1990s, large persistent gaps between non-Hispanic whites and minorities remain and have narrowed only slightly;

According to HUD, in 1994 the minority homeownership rate was 26.8 percent below the rate for white households;

The African-American homeownership rate was 27.5 percentage points below the white rate, and the Hispanic rate was 28.8 percentage points below the white rate;

The second quarter Census data for 2002 shows that non-Hispanic whites have a 74.3% homeownership rate, while African-Americans have a 48% rate and Hispanics a 47.6% rate; and

Asian-Americans and other races have a 53.7% homeownership rate.
A new report from the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) -- which analyzed the most recent homeownership data from the U.S. Census Bureau -- highlights the many barriers that prevent minority families from owning their own home. The barriers include:


A lack of inventory of affordable single-family housing available for sale in many areas where a majority of residents are minority families;

A need for down payment assistance, which affects minority families to a greater extent than non-Hispanic whites because they have less accumulated wealth that can be used to help children with down payments;

A lack of access to affordable mortgage credit;

A lack of understanding of the homebuying process;

Weak credit histories, often arising from a poor understanding of financial matters and where financial counseling is required;

A lack of information about available homeownership programs in the community; and

Language difficulties or cultural differences.
It doesn't have to be this way. The President's agenda will help tear down the barriers to homeownership that stand in the way of our nation's African-American, Hispanic and other minority families by:


Providing Downpayment Assistance. The single biggest barrier to homeownership is accumulating funds for a down payment. The President has proposed $200 million annually for the American Dream Downpayment Fund to help roughly 40,000 families a year with their down payment and closing costs.

Increasing the Supply of Affordable Homes. The President wants to dramatically increase the supply of homes available to low and moderate income families. The President has proposed the Single-Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit, which will provide approximately $2.4 billion to encourage the production of 200,000 affordable homes for sale to low and moderate income families.

Increasing Support for Self-Help Homeownership Programs. The President's budget triples funding for organizations, such as Habitat for Humanity, that help families help themselves become homeowners through sweat equity and volunteerism in their communities.

Simplifying the Home Buying Process & Increasing Education. When buying a home today a buyer faces a confusing and complicated process. The President and HUD want to empower homebuyers by simplifying the home buying process so consumers can better understand and benefit from cost savings. The President also wants to expand financial education efforts so that families can understand what they need to do to become homeowners.
The President also believes that government alone can't close America's homeownership gap. It is critical that our government challenge the private sector to take concrete steps to tear down the barriers to homeownership that face minority families. The President is issuing "America's Homeownership Challenge" to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to join in his effort to increase the number of minority homeowners by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Many organizations have already responded to the President's challenge by committing to:


Substantially increase by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market, specifically targeted toward the minority market;

Launching twenty-five different local initiatives across the nation, geared toward eliminating the specific homeownership barriers faced by minority families in those communities;

Raising $750 million in below-market-rate investments by 2007, which will work in collaboration with local homeownership initiatives and be targeted to heavily minority program areas;

Pursuing strategic partnerships in 20 top housing markets between homebuilders, lenders, local officials, and community leaders to develop approaches that address the local challenges to building homes for minority families living in urban centers;

Establishing faith-based housing partnerships between the participants and at least 100 churches, mosques, synagogues, and other faith-based institutions;

Aggressively developing new mortgage products so that conventional market alternatives are available to combat the predatory loan products that are disproportionately targeted to minorities;

Creating new mortgage products to meet the unique needs of recent immigrants;

Dramatically expanding financial education efforts for minorities, providing financial counseling to at least 380,000 minority families, and taking measures at the local level to reduce predatory lending; and

Establishing multilingual, consumer-oriented internet Web sites designed to help minorities overcome barriers to homeownership, including creation of a central data bank of affordable housing programs made available to real estate agents when working with clients.
For more information on the President's initiatives please visit www.whitehouse.gov.


Today in this case was in 2002.

Really, hmmmmm.

I especially liked this....

"Aggressively developing new mortgage products so that conventional market alternatives are available to combat the predatory loan products that are disproportionately targeted to minorities"

new mtg products= no doc alt a liar loans auto writting systems.
great idea, your gvt in action. :lol:

And this one, just the type to make "loans" to...

"Weak credit histories, often arising from a poor understanding of financial matters and where financial counseling is required"


Yep, some policy you got there boys.
:D

[delayjf]

While what you’ve posted here may have been Bush’s stated goals in 2002. President Bush obviously had a change of heart in 2003 when he called for more regulation of Fannie / Freddie (2003). None of the alternative "mortgage products" alluded to made their way in to the "American Dream Down Payment Initiative" (ADDI) that President Bush signed into law in 2004, which allowed for Government grants (capped at $10,000) for down payments for eligible first time home buyers

[ddog]

While what you’ve posted here may have been Bush’s stated goals in 2002. President Bush obviously had a change of heart in 2003 when he called for more regulation of Fannie / Freddie (2003). None of the alternative "mortgage products" alluded to made their way in to the "American Dream Down Payment Initiative" (ADDI) that President Bush signed into law in 2004, which allowed for Government grants (capped at $10,000) for down payments for eligible first time home buyers

he may have had a change of heart ,but those policy goals were never rescinded or disavowed.

Pls post the proof otherwise from the WH.

It's as plain as the sun rising and mtg defaulting.

I have never seen anything that proves otherwise.

To believe that the IB and other private concerns were not looking for markets, new ones in that timeframe to "open up" , is to deny the way things work in reality or just to be out of that "loop".

[delayjf]

Here is an article from the New York Times that outlines the increase in regulation that President Bush was seeking back in 2003.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

What you posted insinuates that all the bad loans issued by Freddie / Fannie were designed and instigated by the Bush Administration. Well they were not a part of the ADDI Act. And Bush is certainly on record that he wanted more regulation back in 03.
Now show me the legislation the Bush Administration introduced that led to the collapse of Fannie / Freddie.

[delayjf]

he may have had a change of heart ,but those policy goals were never rescinded or disavowed.

I have no reason to believe that the Bush Administration changed its mind with regards to its hopes that as many Americans as possible would own a home. But having a goal is just that - a goal. Until it translates into policy that can be implemented, its not really relevant to the real world.

[witchdoctor]

Food for thought



Fiora from Chicago asked: "What sacrifices will you ask every American to make to help restore the American dream and to get out of the economic morass that we're now in?"


In answer to the question on sacrifice, Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama berated President Bush for telling Americans, after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, not how they must sacrifice, but instead to go out and shop. Then Obama failed to cite a single sacrifice he would suggest.

For his part, Obama never addressed where he would challenge his party, because he never does. According to Congressional Quarterly, Obama votes with his party 96 percent of the time.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/obama_the_good_soldier.html

[PaceAdvantage]

Quite a fairytale thread. I'm going to watch the loosechange video again for some real facts. Does PA still have any threads going denying there is a recession?:lol:

RRActually, under the proper definition of recession, there isn't a recession at the moment...although one is right around the corner with further job losses.

Study history, study job loss numbers during past recessions, study consumer spending, study corporate profits, then come back and tell me we've been in a recession since late 2007.

Go ahead. Tell me.

[rrpic6]

Actually, under the proper definition of recession, there isn't a recession at the moment...although one is right around the corner with further job losses.

Study history, study job loss numbers during past recessions, study consumer spending, study corporate profits, then come back and tell me we've been in a recession since late 2007.

Go ahead. Tell me.

I can show you. Come visit Ohio. Bring some tents, you can rent them out to the thousands of homeless. Thank God the local GM Lordstown Plant is making Cobalts, fuel efficient of course. The GM Plant near Dayton gets padlocked before Christmas. As GM stock hits a 50 year low, Lordstown is basically all we have left. Look up Cuyahoga County Foreclosures, staggering numbers. Rumors of layoffs at the USPS, which has NEVER happened in its history. Early Retirements to those of us eligible are offered next week, the younger workers begging us daily to go, so they can stay. Mail volume down 10% from last year, over 2 Billion in losses. National City Bank in Cleveland goes under any day now. The Malls are more like Mauseleums...the Security Guards are busy evicting people sleeping inside with no place to go. The Libraries are packed, as people can read for free and catch a nap by placing a magazine near their faces. On the bright side, Campbell Soup is showing a profit....smart buyers awaiting the soup lines to start here soon.


RR

[JustRalph]

I can show you. Come visit Ohio. Bring some tents, you can rent them out to the thousands of homeless. Thank God the local GM Lordstown Plant is making Cobalts, fuel efficient of course. The GM Plant near Dayton gets padlocked before Christmas. As GM stock hits a 50 year low, Lordstown is basically all we have left. Look up Cuyahoga County Foreclosures, staggering numbers. Rumors of layoffs at the USPS, which has NEVER happened in its history. Early Retirements to those of us eligible are offered next week, the younger workers begging us daily to go, so they can stay. Mail volume down 10% from last year, over 2 Billion in losses. National City Bank in Cleveland goes under any day now. The Malls are more like Mauseleums...the Security Guards are busy evicting people sleeping inside with no place to go. The Libraries are packed, as people can read for free and catch a nap by placing a magazine near their faces. On the bright side, Campbell Soup is showing a profit....smart buyers awaiting the soup lines to start here soon.


RR

When the state is ranked number 47 on the list of "friendly to business" just above NY and California.......what the hell do you expect?

The Dem Governor has been in for Two years now........???? Still number 47 on the list...........and the Dems who control the state and cities sit on their hands.....

The highest corporate tax rate (trickles down to the citizens) and 8th highest personal tax rate in America.............as Rev. Wright likes to say.........Da Chickens have come home to Roost!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

I can show you. Come visit Ohio. Bring some tents, you can rent them out to the thousands of homeless. Thank God the local GM Lordstown Plant is making Cobalts, fuel efficient of course. The GM Plant near Dayton gets padlocked before Christmas. As GM stock hits a 50 year low, Lordstown is basically all we have left. Look up Cuyahoga County Foreclosures, staggering numbers. Rumors of layoffs at the USPS, which has NEVER happened in its history. Early Retirements to those of us eligible are offered next week, the younger workers begging us daily to go, so they can stay. Mail volume down 10% from last year, over 2 Billion in losses. National City Bank in Cleveland goes under any day now. The Malls are more like Mauseleums...the Security Guards are busy evicting people sleeping inside with no place to go. The Libraries are packed, as people can read for free and catch a nap by placing a magazine near their faces. On the bright side, Campbell Soup is showing a profit....smart buyers awaiting the soup lines to start here soon.


RRSilly me, I had thought we were talking about a nationwide recession. One certainly looks like it is about to hit, but to say we've been in a recession since late 2007 just isn't borne out by the facts.

[usetheforce]

Agreed, no recession