Where has trainer S.Beattie gone ?

[usetheforce]

Been away from racing for a few weeks and have noticed Steph Beattie/aka. super trainer has been missing from C.T. and D.Wells has appeared to take over the training. Anyone know if there has been any suspension brought her way ?

[lamboguy]

david wells is stephanie's boyfriend. they both work together, no matter who's name is on the program.

both are real good, they have the best program going in that area. she gets on horses, and they swim their horses.

[usetheforce]

Came across this link http://www.topix.com/forum/sports/horse-racing/TR3097MTO9DNR98TL

was wondering if there was any real info into there using drugs on the horses ???

[lamboguy]

are you guys nuts? just because certain trainers win all the time, you think they have to be doing something illegal. you guys always knock dutrow, asmussen, the beatie family. all these people don't run their horses when they have physical problems. they have owners that can afford to wait untill the horse is better. sometimes they put out sub-par horses and hope that someone steps into the trap and claims them.

when they run their horses they run them cheaper than what they can win for. its called jamming. weaker trainers are afraid to claim them because these "super trainers" have a reputation of useing illegal substances, and figure they can never improve on the horse. all that is is perception. cole runs his horse, wins the race, drops the horse, and wins another race. samething with the maggi moss horses.

i am not saying that these trainers don't use steroids, or clembeuterol, or hydrogen chambers, or that they tap their horses. but the way the rules are, they are not breaking them.

if you want to compare the trainers in the united states vs. those in japan. the ones in the united states would be barred for life in a new york second. they don't allow no drugs at all in japan. but in this country they do. if you don't like it, change it. it would probably be a great thing for the sport. the reason why they allowed it to begin with is because there aren't enough horses for all the tracks in this country. maybe there is to much racing going on here and that is the difficulty of the situation.

my solution would be to #1 stop paying purses to horses that finish worse than third. #2 ban all these drugs like lasix, clem, bute, and steroids. #3 have a strong commision to enforce things in racing. #4 limit the length of a racing meet to no more than 60 days. #5 don't run more than 4 thoroughbred tracks in the afternoon and and 4 in the evening. #5 have better simulcast agreements. #6 higher standards for the venues that run simulcast and live meets.

more for another day

[DeanT]

Wow, that article was rough and tumble. Tougher than a Beyer article any day. I dont think I have ever seen one like that. When 99% of horses tested test negative and she posts a bakers dozen positives, most would say she should expect and deserve to get lambasted.

[jotb]

Been away from racing for a few weeks and have noticed Steph Beattie/aka. super trainer has been missing from C.T. and D.Wells has appeared to take over the training. Anyone know if there has been any suspension brought her way ?

Stephanie Beattie has been suspended. The horse that came up with a positive was BUTLER. The horse had ran on 8-2-2008 and won a 4KNW2L by 6.5 lengths. The horse then ran back on 8-17-2008 and won a 4KNW3L by 6 lengths. On 8-17-2008 BUTLER was claimed by Roy Wallace. The horse next hit the enties on 9-21-2008 in a CLM7.5KNW26M and was scr. Butler was next entered back on 10-2-2008 in a 6KNW3L. I would think the split sample was sent out but didn't come back until Sept. The horse that finished 2nd to BUTLER on the night of the positive was BOX OF COOKIES. BOX OF COOKIES next ran on Aug 30th in a 4KNW2L. That is 4 weeks after the positive. I wonder what would have happened to BOX OF COOKIES if he would have won on AUG 30TH. Can you collect purse winnings twice for the same condition when in reality BOX OF COOKIES was not elgible for the condition?

Joe

[jotb]

are you guys nuts? just because certain trainers win all the time, you think they have to be doing something illegal. you guys always knock dutrow, asmussen, the beatie family. all these people don't run their horses when they have physical problems. they have owners that can afford to wait untill the horse is better. sometimes they put out sub-par horses and hope that someone steps into the trap and claims them.

when they run their horses they run them cheaper than what they can win for. its called jamming. weaker trainers are afraid to claim them because these "super trainers" have a reputation of useing illegal substances, and figure they can never improve on the horse. all that is is perception. cole runs his horse, wins the race, drops the horse, and wins another race. samething with the maggi moss horses.

i am not saying that these trainers don't use steroids, or clembeuterol, or hydrogen chambers, or that they tap their horses. but the way the rules are, they are not breaking them.

if you want to compare the trainers in the united states vs. those in japan. the ones in the united states would be barred for life in a new york second. they don't allow no drugs at all in japan. but in this country they do. if you don't like it, change it. it would probably be a great thing for the sport. the reason why they allowed it to begin with is because there aren't enough horses for all the tracks in this country. maybe there is to much racing going on here and that is the difficulty of the situation.

my solution would be to #1 stop paying purses to horses that finish worse than third. #2 ban all these drugs like lasix, clem, bute, and steroids. #3 have a strong commision to enforce things in racing. #4 limit the length of a racing meet to no more than 60 days. #5 don't run more than 4 thoroughbred tracks in the afternoon and and 4 in the evening. #5 have better simulcast agreements. #6 higher standards for the venues that run simulcast and live meets.

more for another day

Solution #1 for sure would hurt many owners. It's those 4th's and 5th's that pays for the overhead. You need to clarify solution #4 and solution #5 because the way I interpret both these solutions it seems to me that the only people that gain from this would be the horseplayer. The horseplayer gets to have their normal day and night action. I can't see how a 60 day meet that normally runs 200 days per year helps the horseman. Your solution puts many people out of work and many owners finding a new hobby.

joe

[lamboguy]

i beleive that if you offer more competive races at any level, people would be more inclined to participate in the game. paying purses for those trainers that consistanly run at the rear of the pack is not doing the game any good.

the long meets that are going on now have less field size and less competiveness. meaning less people betting on the races, meaning less handle, and less people going to the track. the field sizes go down every year at this time due to injuries, and owners running out of money.

[john del riccio]

are you guys nuts? just because certain trainers win all the time, you think they have to be doing something illegal. you guys always knock dutrow, asmussen, the beatie family. all these people don't run their horses when they have physical problems. they have owners that can afford to wait untill the horse is better. sometimes they put out sub-par horses and hope that someone steps into the trap and claims them.

when they run their horses they run them cheaper than what they can win for. its called jamming. weaker trainers are afraid to claim them because these "super trainers" have a reputation of useing illegal substances, and figure they can never improve on the horse. all that is is perception. cole runs his horse, wins the race, drops the horse, and wins another race. samething with the maggi moss horses.

i am not saying that these trainers don't use steroids, or clembeuterol, or hydrogen chambers, or that they tap their horses. but the way the rules are, they are not breaking them.

if you want to compare the trainers in the united states vs. those in japan. the ones in the united states would be barred for life in a new york second. they don't allow no drugs at all in japan. but in this country they do. if you don't like it, change it. it would probably be a great thing for the sport. the reason why they allowed it to begin with is because there aren't enough horses for all the tracks in this country. maybe there is to much racing going on here and that is the difficulty of the situation.

my solution would be to #1 stop paying purses to horses that finish worse than third. #2 ban all these drugs like lasix, clem, bute, and steroids. #3 have a strong commision to enforce things in racing. #4 limit the length of a racing meet to no more than 60 days. #5 don't run more than 4 thoroughbred tracks in the afternoon and and 4 in the evening. #5 have better simulcast agreements. #6 higher standards for the venues that run simulcast and live meets.

more for another day

lambo,

i wish i had the ability to search a database with the following filter.

1.) claimed from steph beattie
2.) class level competitive at with her as trainer
3.) figs earned with her as trainer

the 2 & 3 with the new trainer.

i am certain the results would not show even close to similar performances
whether the trainers were 20% or 10%. it wouldnt happen.

john

[lamboguy]

stephanie beatie is what you might categorise as a "super trainer". i notice the sub par results from horses claimed from her, and the imediate improvements once she gets her hands on them. its not like she steps them up 3 levels though, very rarely does she step them up more than 2 after the claim.

[Yorker]

Anyone find a link to her suspension details?

[Mag]

Is David Wells related to Donald V. Wells?

[takeout]

Don’t know about that but David J. and David H. appear to be the same person. Another one of those BRIS data versus TSN data things, I assume.

[Shenanigans]

are you guys nuts? just because certain trainers win all the time, you think they have to be doing something illegal. you guys always knock dutrow, asmussen, the beatie family. all these people don't run their horses when they have physical problems. they have owners that can afford to wait untill the horse is better. sometimes they put out sub-par horses and hope that someone steps into the trap and claims them.

when they run their horses they run them cheaper than what they can win for. its called jamming. weaker trainers are afraid to claim them because these "super trainers" have a reputation of useing illegal substances, and figure they can never improve on the horse. all that is is perception. cole runs his horse, wins the race, drops the horse, and wins another race. samething with the maggi moss horses.

i am not saying that these trainers don't use steroids, or clembeuterol, or hydrogen chambers, or that they tap their horses. but the way the rules are, they are not breaking them.

if you want to compare the trainers in the united states vs. those in japan. the ones in the united states would be barred for life in a new york second. they don't allow no drugs at all in japan. but in this country they do. if you don't like it, change it. it would probably be a great thing for the sport. the reason why they allowed it to begin with is because there aren't enough horses for all the tracks in this country. maybe there is to much racing going on here and that is the difficulty of the situation.

my solution would be to #1 stop paying purses to horses that finish worse than third. #2 ban all these drugs like lasix, clem, bute, and steroids. #3 have a strong commision to enforce things in racing. #4 limit the length of a racing meet to no more than 60 days. #5 don't run more than 4 thoroughbred tracks in the afternoon and and 4 in the evening. #5 have better simulcast agreements. #6 higher standards for the venues that run simulcast and live meets.

more for another day

This post wins most gullible post of the year. The trainers you named is what makes it so humorous. I could get into details about a few of them and their "rule breaking" but it is not allowed on this forum......:rolleyes:

[lamboguy]

i named those names because they are controvesial, i could have brought out mike mitchell, or jeff mullins, or jamie ness, or lynn scace, or stifano, or rigateri, or doug o'neil, or todd pletcher.

everyone of the above pushes as far as they can. they all get suspensions, they pay and sit it out. that is the way racing is. the point of my post is that if you get rid of all these guys, you have no game.

i suggested the ways to change the game, and if someone doesn't abide by the rules, they get ruled off for life.

i know its not comical, but i do know some of these guys, and beleive me they do as good a job as there is to do. they all treat there horses as best as they can. the problem is, they all happen to be winners, and sometimes people get jealous because they win.

i want to tell you, dick dutrow is one great human being. he is an example of someone that was down and out and came back in our great country.
he has always been nice to me.

the asmussen family is as good as it gets. they treat me fine too, even though we are competitors in the horse sales.

i am not naiieve about what goes on.

if you want to know whats worse is when a trainer tells his client he has a good horse knowing the horse is awful. or the trainer holds the horse and compromises the horse's chances in a race. or the trainer sends in fake vet bills, and chiropractic or accupuncture bills. all that stuff happens.

and how about the trainers that take their clients to the sales and have their hands out from the consigners for kickbacks. i know of some big name trainers that have done, and maybe still do that to their clients.

the guys i mentioned all try to win every race they are in.

[cj]

everyone of the above pushes as far as they can. they all get suspensions, they pay and sit it out. that is the way racing is. the point of my post is that if you get rid of all these guys, you have no game.



This is a joke, right? You think without these guys nobody would take the horses?

[jotb]

lambo,

i wish i had the ability to search a database with the following filter.

1.) claimed from steph beattie
2.) class level competitive at with her as trainer
3.) figs earned with her as trainer

the 2 & 3 with the new trainer.

i am certain the results would not show even close to similar performances
whether the trainers were 20% or 10%. it wouldnt happen.

john

Hey John.

You asked for it!!!LOL

There have been a total of 54 horses claimed from Stephanie Beattie from 10-5-2007 right through 10-04-2008. I will provide you with the name of horse, claimed price & date of claim, and some facts for 24 of the 54 horses for now.

1- Skycrossing- 7K JULY 6 2008 by Ronney Brown. Has run twice since claim and has earned zero dollars. Before the claim Beattie has a win and a place from 2 starts.

2- Navarre Light-4K JUNE 28 2008 BY MURRY ROJAS. Has run twice since claim with one third earning $1,364. Has not run since 7-26-2008. Before the claim Beattie win 3 races from 7 starts with this horse.

3- Bugsy Park-5k JULY 27 2008 by Ronney Brown. Has run twice since claim with one third earning $1,300 and $390 for a 5th place finish. Before the claim Beattie win 5 straight races with this horse.

4- Flying Fortress- 7.5k JUNE 6 2008 by Murry Rojas. Has run 4 times with a win, place, show and one 4th. Purse earnings $8,010. So far so good! Before the claim Beattie had 1 win and 1 place from 2 starts.

5- Itllbe Allright- 5k JUNE 5 2008 by Talbot J Albert. Has run twice since claim with a 4th and 5th for purse earnings of $1,320. Before the claim Beattie won with this horse 3 times, 3 place and 1 show from 8 starts.

6- Dynergy- 5k MAY 22 2008 by William T Goff. Ran 37 days later for Goff and beat only one horse. Before the claim the horse won.

7- Swift Mercedes- 12.5k MAY 18 2008 by Ronney Brown. Ran 3 times for Ronney with two 2nd's and one 5th. Purse earnings $10,700. Horse was claimed off Ronney on JULY 6TH 2008 by Henry Worcester for 8k. This horse made money for Ronney. Henry Worcester ran the horse twice and finish 6th both times earning $770. Worcester was lucky because Beattie claimed this one back for 5k but still lost money. Before Ronney Brown claimed this horse Beattie had 2 wins and one place

8- Nut Flush- 4k MAY 15 2008 by Timothy Shea. Horse ran back on June 27 2008 and finished 9th. Horse has not run back since. Before the claim the horse had back to back victories.

9- Bello Victorio- 5k MAY 15 2008 by Jose Martinez. Ran back for Jose 21 days later and won. Since then Jose has 4 other race with a 3rd, 5th, 6th, and DNF. Purse earning $10,616. Horse last ran on SEP 20 2008. Figure about 5k min. for overhead the last 4 months and this claim is hanging by a thread. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 8 starts.

10- Ojibway- 12k MAY 10 2008 by James Taglianetti. Ran twice in June and finished 2nd twice earning $5,360. The horse was claimed for 10k on JUNE 29 2008. Over a month of bills and this claim made a few pennies. Before the claim Beattie had 2 seconds with this horse.

11- Jenny's Rose- 4.5k MAY 9 2008 by Andrew Murtaugh. Ran 3 times since and his best race was a 6th place finish. Purse earnings since claim is $260. It's now OCT and this owner is in the red. Before the claim Beattie wins 4 races from 8 starts.

12- Turnaroundsoldier- 5k AUG 6 2008 by Scott Lake. Lake has not run horse back yet. Before the claim Beattie manage to get a win, place and show from 6 starts.

13- Southern Devil- 5k APRIL 23 2008 by Bruce Kravets. Horse has run back 9 times with 1 win and 5 place with purse earnings of $17,372. Kravets has the horse 5 months. A min. of 8k in overhead. This claim is turning out to be ok. Before the claim Beattie only had the horse a short time running once with a win.

14- Miss Mcpunch- 4k APRIL 19 2008 by Murry Rojas. Horse never ran since the claim. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 7 starts.

15-Fortunate Storm- 14k APRIL 13 2008 by George Albright. George ran the horse back 4 times with 3 shows. Purse earnings were $9.360. George lost the horse on JULY 3 2008 for 5k. With 4 months of overhead this turned out to be a bad claim. Before the claim Beattie had 5 wins, 3 place and 1 third from 9 starts.

16- Symbolical- 4k APRIL 12 2008 by Murry Rojas. Horse runs back 3 times with a place and show for purse earnings of $3,666. Horse has not run since June 21 2008. Not good! Before the claim Beattie had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd from 3 starts.

17- What's What- 5.5k APRIL 12 2008 by Dane Kobiskie. It took Dane 4 months to get this horse back to the races. Since returning back Dane has a win and 2 place from 3 starts. Purse earnings $11,160. It's almost 6 months now. I wonder why the horse was on the shelf for 4 months. Before the claim Beattie only ran the horse once and win by 9.5 lengths.

18- Eagle Beagle- 4,750k APRIL 11 2008 by Edwin Vasquez. Ran the horse twice and no where to be found. No purse earnings. Believe it or not the horse was actually claimed from Vasquez for 7k on JULY 2 2008. Another horse in the red. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 8 starts.

19- Thundering Colleen- 4.5k APRIL 3 2008 by David Lezell. Horse has run 5 times since the claim with 1 win for purse earnings of $6,900. Horse just ran at Suf on SEPT 27 2008. A little over 5 months of bills so I'm sure this horse has not made any money yet. Before the claim Beattie had 3 wins from 5 starts.

20- Eastmont- 9k MARCH 9 2008 by Raimondo Dicola. Has run twice since claim with a 3rd in a 4k claiming race and a 10th place finish for the same 4k claiming price. Purse earnings since claim is $900. Horse has not run back since MAY 7 2008. I wonder where he could be. Before the claim Beattie had 2 wins from 5 starts.

21- Tipsy Tonya- 25k MARCH 3 2008 by Kathleen Demasi. Horse ran twice with a 3rd and 4th. Purse earning $3,360. Kathleen got lucky somewhat as the horse was claimed back for 12.5K on JUNE 11 2008. Before the claim Beattie had 3 wins and never missed the board from 6 starts.

22- L Da Vinci - 5.5k FEB 28 2008 by Timothy Collins. Has run twice since claim and was up the track both times. Horse has not been seen since MAY 15 2008 but was recently entered at MNR on SEPT 8 2008 but was scr. What kills me is before the claim Beattie ran the horse once and finished up the track. If she couldn't win with the horse how is this guy going to succeed.

23-Lunar's Serenity- 25k JAN 9 2008 by Robert Bailes. It's now OCT 2008 and the horse has not even had a published workout. Before the claim Beattie had a win and a place from 2 starts.

24- Swallow That Pride- 5.5k DEC 29 2007 by Anthony Carone. The horse has run 13 times right up to AUG 10 2008. The horse has managed to grab a win and a 3rd from 13 starts with earnings of $12,020. Last 5 races horse has finished 8th, 10th, 8th, 8th and 8th. Horses longest time off since the claim has been 36 days. Nine months of bills at maybe $35 a day is about $9,500 not counting vet bills and other bills.

I'm tired John. I will try to furnish you with the other 34 claims at a later time. You can read through this for now and have a pretty good idea what the other 34 are like.

Best regards,
Joe

[DeanT]

Wow, that is some kinda research. It is amazing what a couple days in a new barn can do huh?

If I ever want to claim a horse off her, hit me over the head with a bat please.

[john del riccio]

Hey John.

You asked for it!!!LOL

There have been a total of 54 horses claimed from Stephanie Beattie from 10-5-2007 right through 10-04-2008. I will provide you with the name of horse, claimed price & date of claim, and some facts for 24 of the 54 horses for now.

1- Skycrossing- 7K JULY 6 2008 by Ronney Brown. Has run twice since claim and has earned zero dollars. Before the claim Beattie has a win and a place from 2 starts.

2- Navarre Light-4K JUNE 28 2008 BY MURRY ROJAS. Has run twice since claim with one third earning $1,364. Has not run since 7-26-2008. Before the claim Beattie win 3 races from 7 starts with this horse.

3- Bugsy Park-5k JULY 27 2008 by Ronney Brown. Has run twice since claim with one third earning $1,300 and $390 for a 5th place finish. Before the claim Beattie win 5 straight races with this horse.

4- Flying Fortress- 7.5k JUNE 6 2008 by Murry Rojas. Has run 4 times with a win, place, show and one 4th. Purse earnings $8,010. So far so good! Before the claim Beattie had 1 win and 1 place from 2 starts.

5- Itllbe Allright- 5k JUNE 5 2008 by Talbot J Albert. Has run twice since claim with a 4th and 5th for purse earnings of $1,320. Before the claim Beattie won with this horse 3 times, 3 place and 1 show from 8 starts.

6- Dynergy- 5k MAY 22 2008 by William T Goff. Ran 37 days later for Goff and beat only one horse. Before the claim the horse won.

7- Swift Mercedes- 12.5k MAY 18 2008 by Ronney Brown. Ran 3 times for Ronney with two 2nd's and one 5th. Purse earnings $10,700. Horse was claimed off Ronney on JULY 6TH 2008 by Henry Worcester for 8k. This horse made money for Ronney. Henry Worcester ran the horse twice and finish 6th both times earning $770. Worcester was lucky because Beattie claimed this one back for 5k but still lost money. Before Ronney Brown claimed this horse Beattie had 2 wins and one place

8- Nut Flush- 4k MAY 15 2008 by Timothy Shea. Horse ran back on June 27 2008 and finished 9th. Horse has not run back since. Before the claim the horse had back to back victories.

9- Bello Victorio- 5k MAY 15 2008 by Jose Martinez. Ran back for Jose 21 days later and won. Since then Jose has 4 other race with a 3rd, 5th, 6th, and DNF. Purse earning $10,616. Horse last ran on SEP 20 2008. Figure about 5k min. for overhead the last 4 months and this claim is hanging by a thread. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 8 starts.

10- Ojibway- 12k MAY 10 2008 by James Taglianetti. Ran twice in June and finished 2nd twice earning $5,360. The horse was claimed for 10k on JUNE 29 2008. Over a month of bills and this claim made a few pennies. Before the claim Beattie had 2 seconds with this horse.

11- Jenny's Rose- 4.5k MAY 9 2008 by Andrew Murtaugh. Ran 3 times since and his best race was a 6th place finish. Purse earnings since claim is $260. It's now OCT and this owner is in the red. Before the claim Beattie wins 4 races from 8 starts.

12- Turnaroundsoldier- 5k AUG 6 2008 by Scott Lake. Lake has not run horse back yet. Before the claim Beattie manage to get a win, place and show from 6 starts.

13- Southern Devil- 5k APRIL 23 2008 by Bruce Kravets. Horse has run back 9 times with 1 win and 5 place with purse earnings of $17,372. Kravets has the horse 5 months. A min. of 8k in overhead. This claim is turning out to be ok. Before the claim Beattie only had the horse a short time running once with a win.

14- Miss Mcpunch- 4k APRIL 19 2008 by Murry Rojas. Horse never ran since the claim. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 7 starts.

15-Fortunate Storm- 14k APRIL 13 2008 by George Albright. George ran the horse back 4 times with 3 shows. Purse earnings were $9.360. George lost the horse on JULY 3 2008 for 5k. With 4 months of overhead this turned out to be a bad claim. Before the claim Beattie had 5 wins, 3 place and 1 third from 9 starts.

16- Symbolical- 4k APRIL 12 2008 by Murry Rojas. Horse runs back 3 times with a place and show for purse earnings of $3,666. Horse has not run since June 21 2008. Not good! Before the claim Beattie had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd from 3 starts.

17- What's What- 5.5k APRIL 12 2008 by Dane Kobiskie. It took Dane 4 months to get this horse back to the races. Since returning back Dane has a win and 2 place from 3 starts. Purse earnings $11,160. It's almost 6 months now. I wonder why the horse was on the shelf for 4 months. Before the claim Beattie only ran the horse once and win by 9.5 lengths.

18- Eagle Beagle- 4,750k APRIL 11 2008 by Edwin Vasquez. Ran the horse twice and no where to be found. No purse earnings. Believe it or not the horse was actually claimed from Vasquez for 7k on JULY 2 2008. Another horse in the red. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 8 starts.

19- Thundering Colleen- 4.5k APRIL 3 2008 by David Lezell. Horse has run 5 times since the claim with 1 win for purse earnings of $6,900. Horse just ran at Suf on SEPT 27 2008. A little over 5 months of bills so I'm sure this horse has not made any money yet. Before the claim Beattie had 3 wins from 5 starts.

20- Eastmont- 9k MARCH 9 2008 by Raimondo Dicola. Has run twice since claim with a 3rd in a 4k claiming race and a 10th place finish for the same 4k claiming price. Purse earnings since claim is $900. Horse has not run back since MAY 7 2008. I wonder where he could be. Before the claim Beattie had 2 wins from 5 starts.

21- Tipsy Tonya- 25k MARCH 3 2008 by Kathleen Demasi. Horse ran twice with a 3rd and 4th. Purse earning $3,360. Kathleen got lucky somewhat as the horse was claimed back for 12.5K on JUNE 11 2008. Before the claim Beattie had 3 wins and never missed the board from 6 starts.

22- L Da Vinci - 5.5k FEB 28 2008 by Timothy Collins. Has run twice since claim and was up the track both times. Horse has not been seen since MAY 15 2008 but was recently entered at MNR on SEPT 8 2008 but was scr. What kills me is before the claim Beattie ran the horse once and finished up the track. If she couldn't win with the horse how is this guy going to succeed.

23-Lunar's Serenity- 25k JAN 9 2008 by Robert Bailes. It's now OCT 2008 and the horse has not even had a published workout. Before the claim Beattie had a win and a place from 2 starts.

24- Swallow That Pride- 5.5k DEC 29 2007 by Anthony Carone. The horse has run 13 times right up to AUG 10 2008. The horse has managed to grab a win and a 3rd from 13 starts with earnings of $12,020. Last 5 races horse has finished 8th, 10th, 8th, 8th and 8th. Horses longest time off since the claim has been 36 days. Nine months of bills at maybe $35 a day is about $9,500 not counting vet bills and other bills.

I'm tired John. I will try to furnish you with the other 34 claims at a later time. You can read through this for now and have a pretty good idea what the other 34 are like.

Best regards,
Joe

Joe,

You are a pice of work, hats off to you...
If this isn't eye-opening, I dont know what is. Allen Jerkens, she ain't, what exactly she is, I don't know....

Most of the higher percentage trainers that claimed off her failed miserably...
Don't overwork yourself with the other 34, I am pretty sure its more of the same.


Thanks,
John

[lamboguy]

stephanie beattie just got a supension for a clembeuterol infraction. in pennsylvania it is leagal to use clem up to 24 hours before the race. they found a little higher content of the stuff in the horses blodd and gave her days. do you think allen jerkins uses clem? i would say he used it years ago before it was legal at all.

stephanie beattie is a great trainer, she is great with her horses as the prior post points out, no one does well claiming from her. so just proves how good she really is.

[lamboguy]

ronnie brown must be a great trainer, he just won with bugsy park in charlestown 7th today

i have a spot in my heart for gold old bugsy, i had her originally, and sold her for 12k. she has been a win machine thoughout her career. she was cut out to be a real nice horse, but she had an offset knee. she is still going at age 5.

[Tom Barrister]

Note this quote in the referenced article:

horses trained by the magical Stephanie Beattie racked up an alarming 13 positive steroid tests -- eight more than the next highest trainer.

If that doesn't mean they're drugging, then I'm not sure what would.

[Nacumi]

stephanie beattie just got a supension for a clembeuterol infraction. in pennsylvania it is leagal to use clem up to 24 hours before the race. they found a little higher content of the stuff in the horses blodd and gave her days.

FYI, PA initiated a 48 hour window for clenbuterol use prior to racing a few weeks ago.

[lamboguy]

thanks for the update.

[Mineshaft]

Wow, that is some kinda research. It is amazing what a couple days in a new barn can do huh?

If I ever want to claim a horse off her, hit me over the head with a bat please.





Exactly....

[Yorker]

Note this quote in the referenced article:



If that doesn't mean they're drugging, then I'm not sure what would.

She claimed on a message board for a racing stable she trains for that she stopped using steroids on horses as soon as the ban went into effect in PA. Of course she also made sure her posts mentioned that she had never "gotten days" for any training infraction.... That's no longer in her defense arsenal.

[Mineshaft]

She claimed on a message board for a racing stable she trains for that she stopped using steroids on horses as soon as the ban went into effect in PA. Of course she also made sure her posts mentioned that she had never "gotten days" for any training infraction.... That's no longer in her defense arsenal.




what stable and what message board?

[proximity]

and they swim their horses.

yeah, we all know that's the magic bullet to 37% winners!!

face it, pre rc jr, this girl couldn't train a marble to roll down a hill....

[PaceAdvantage]

I could get into details about a few of them and their "rule breaking" but it is not allowed on this forum......:rolleyes:If this "rule breaking" is public knowledge and has been reported already, by all means, go right ahead.

If not:

As soon as you send me proof and your REAL name, you can go right ahead and state your allegations along with your full REAL name.

The fact that you expect me to allow you, an anonymous poster, to post allegations about trainers without also presenting proof, is laughable to say the least.

[lamboguy]

i know stephanie, and i know another 40% trainer, louis ruberto. both have a few things in common, they both train up an down hills, swim their horses, and never run sub-par horses. to add to this, they both don't have big vet bills. so if you say that that they are doing something wrong, the owner don't pay for it. not only that the appearance of their horses are superb, their coats are shiny at all times. they don't have the look of being juiced up.

i find it interesting that people that don't have horses with these people think they are cheats because they win and do a better job than other trainers.

one more point i want to make is that some of these tests that come up positive due to drugs supposedly being administered to close to the cutoff of time is strickly random. some horses might hold the chemicals in their bodies longer than others. the levels of the substance in the blood is only an opinion.

it only makes sense to have the same rules in every jurisdiction thruout the country. i say the less drugs the better.

10 years ago, there were plenty of horses in the sales that were all pumped up with steroids. they now banned them. if there is a trace of steroids in the system it automatically voids the sale.

[proximity]

the owner don't pay for it.


the owner is in complete control. tremendous eye for spotting the next 30% trainer!! pick any 0-5% trainer on the grounds. "the owner" can move them up to 30+ %....... and keep them there. they could suspend s. beattie, wells, whatever..... doesn't really matter now, does it??
the show will go on with the new "trainer of record" and it will be business as usual.

convenient though that the "suspension" occurs when they main track they are stabled at is shut down for six weeks!!

[lamboguy]

peter fuller, a great man, and an honest one to boot, got stripped of the kentucky derby with dancer's image because of a beutizolin infraction back in those days. he was not part of the click in kentucky and litterally got screwed.

thank god he had another champion with mom's command years later.

i can't let you post derrogotory things that aren't true about stephanie beattie or any other trainer that couldn't be further from the truth.

why can't you guys understand that the good trainers put more effort into what they are doing and have results.

if you really beleived in what you are saying you would not be betting or owning horses.

there is plenty wrong with this game as it is that needs to be attended to immediately. like a complete revamp. but to sit here and bash people for things you think but are not sure of doing is wrong.

if these people are doing things that are wrong, a good start would be to ban them from horseracing for life.

[Yorker]

what stable and what message board?
Trans Atlantic Racing Stables. I don't think she trains for them anymore.

[jotb]

ronnie brown must be a great trainer, he just won with bugsy park in charlestown 7th today

i have a spot in my heart for gold old bugsy, i had her originally, and sold her for 12k. she has been a win machine thoughout her career. she was cut out to be a real nice horse, but she had an offset knee. she is still going at age 5.

I don't know about a great trainer but let's just say he does a good job with the stock he has. I would think the great trainer comment (and this has nothing to do with Ronney Brown but for all trainers that play the claiming game) is someone that can take a horse for a certain claiming price and win with that horse for a higher claiming tag without any illegal actitivy. Why do you think Beattie ran the horse for 4.5k after winning an ALW1X? Do you think they just wanted to give the horse away? The horse was in a 5k race for two reasons. They (meaning the connections have a license to steal) know if any trainer goes in for the horse the new connections will not improve the horse. Why can't the other connections improve the horse? Just because the new connections don't do what I can do. Here's the 2nd reason. They squeezed the lemon dry! Steve Romeka previously had Bugsy and ran him 3 times. The first time Steve ran the horse was in an AOC25K1X and Bugsy finished 2nd. Steve runs the horse back 12 days later (after that hard effort) in a open 15k (usually a tough group at CT) and Bugsy beat a couple of horses. Bugsy shows up 49 days later in a open 10k and they dropped the slip (Bugsy got beat 21 lengths). Now Beattie puts Bugsy on their program and comes back 33 days after the claim in a beaten 4k. WOW! Nobody except for Steve might take the horse back for 4k. Does he go in? NO. Does Bugsy win? Yes, off the screen. Bugsy gets another 38 days off (now 2.5 months on their program) and goes back in a double beaten 4k. Does anybody go in once again? No. Does he win? Yes, rather easily. Bugsy shows up 14 days later in a beaten 7.5K. At this point, nobody is going to take this horse especially given the fact anyone could have had her for 4k. Does she win? Yes, rather easily once again. Three weeks later Bugsy is entered in the ALW1X (don't forget she had finished 2nd in this spot when Steve had her) and she wins again. Now Beattie/Cole have accumulated 40k in purse earnings from their 10k claim in less than 4 months. Would you say they are out at this point? What's next for her? She goes right back to the bottom off (5k) the alw win. At this point, they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. It's like dangling the bait when fishing. Is there any fish around? Yes, this time there is. Who is this fish? Ronney Brown. Not only does Beattie/Cole pick up another 5k from the claim but they also pick up another $7,200 for the win. Why does he take this horse for 5k at that point? What's running through the mind of Ronney Brown? On a final note, I was wondering why you sold her for 12k. She has earned 140k lifetime. I guess you must of sold her when she was in Florida under the name Patrick and Elizabeth Everard.

Joe

[john del riccio]

I don't know about a great trainer but let's just say he does a good job with the stock he has. I would think the great trainer comment (and this has nothing to do with Ronney Brown but for all trainers that play the claiming game) is someone that can take a horse for a certain claiming price and win with that horse for a higher claiming tag without any illegal actitivy. Why do you think Beattie ran the horse for 4.5k after winning an ALW1X? Do you think they just wanted to give the horse away? The horse was in a 5k race for two reasons. They (meaning the connections have a license to steal) know if any trainer goes in for the horse the new connections will not improve the horse. Why can't the other connections improve the horse? Just because the new connections don't do what I can do. Here's the 2nd reason. They squeezed the lemon dry! Steve Romeka previously had Bugsy and ran him 3 times. The first time Steve ran the horse was in an AOC25K1X and Bugsy finished 2nd. Steve runs the horse back 12 days later (after that hard effort) in a open 15k (usually a tough group at CT) and Bugsy beat a couple of horses. Bugsy shows up 49 days later in a open 10k and they dropped the slip (Bugsy got beat 21 lengths). Now Beattie puts Bugsy on their program and comes back 33 days after the claim in a beaten 4k. WOW! Nobody except for Steve might take the horse back for 4k. Does he go in? NO. Does Bugsy win? Yes, off the screen. Bugsy gets another 38 days off (now 2.5 months on their program) and goes back in a double beaten 4k. Does anybody go in once again? No. Does he win? Yes, rather easily. Bugsy shows up 14 days later in a beaten 7.5K. At this point, nobody is going to take this horse especially given the fact anyone could have had her for 4k. Does she win? Yes, rather easily once again. Three weeks later Bugsy is entered in the ALW1X (don't forget she had finished 2nd in this spot when Steve had her) and she wins again. Now Beattie/Cole have accumulated 40k in purse earnings from their 10k claim in less than 4 months. Would you say they are out at this point? What's next for her? She goes right back to the bottom off (5k) the alw win. At this point, they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. It's like dangling the bait when fishing. Is there any fish around? Yes, this time there is. Who is this fish? Ronney Brown. Not only does Beattie/Cole pick up another 5k from the claim but they also pick up another $7,200 for the win. Why does he take this horse for 5k at that point? What's running through the mind of Ronney Brown? On a final note, I was wondering why you sold her for 12k. She has earned 140k lifetime. I guess you must of sold her when she was in Florida under the name Patrick and Elizabeth Everard.

Joe


Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you Joe, do you do PI work in your spare time. This gets my vote for post of the week.

John

[Mineshaft]

I don't know about a great trainer but let's just say he does a good job with the stock he has. I would think the great trainer comment (and this has nothing to do with Ronney Brown but for all trainers that play the claiming game) is someone that can take a horse for a certain claiming price and win with that horse for a higher claiming tag without any illegal actitivy. Why do you think Beattie ran the horse for 4.5k after winning an ALW1X? Do you think they just wanted to give the horse away? The horse was in a 5k race for two reasons. They (meaning the connections have a license to steal) know if any trainer goes in for the horse the new connections will not improve the horse. Why can't the other connections improve the horse? Just because the new connections don't do what I can do. Here's the 2nd reason. They squeezed the lemon dry! Steve Romeka previously had Bugsy and ran him 3 times. The first time Steve ran the horse was in an AOC25K1X and Bugsy finished 2nd. Steve runs the horse back 12 days later (after that hard effort) in a open 15k (usually a tough group at CT) and Bugsy beat a couple of horses. Bugsy shows up 49 days later in a open 10k and they dropped the slip (Bugsy got beat 21 lengths). Now Beattie puts Bugsy on their program and comes back 33 days after the claim in a beaten 4k. WOW! Nobody except for Steve might take the horse back for 4k. Does he go in? NO. Does Bugsy win? Yes, off the screen. Bugsy gets another 38 days off (now 2.5 months on their program) and goes back in a double beaten 4k. Does anybody go in once again? No. Does he win? Yes, rather easily. Bugsy shows up 14 days later in a beaten 7.5K. At this point, nobody is going to take this horse especially given the fact anyone could have had her for 4k. Does she win? Yes, rather easily once again. Three weeks later Bugsy is entered in the ALW1X (don't forget she had finished 2nd in this spot when Steve had her) and she wins again. Now Beattie/Cole have accumulated 40k in purse earnings from their 10k claim in less than 4 months. Would you say they are out at this point? What's next for her? She goes right back to the bottom off (5k) the alw win. At this point, they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. It's like dangling the bait when fishing. Is there any fish around? Yes, this time there is. Who is this fish? Ronney Brown. Not only does Beattie/Cole pick up another 5k from the claim but they also pick up another $7,200 for the win. Why does he take this horse for 5k at that point? What's running through the mind of Ronney Brown? On a final note, I was wondering why you sold her for 12k. She has earned 140k lifetime. I guess you must of sold her when she was in Florida under the name Patrick and Elizabeth Everard.

Joe





One thing Beattie and Cole know how to do is spot there horses. Most trainers would of ran the horse back for 10K after they claimed her where she got beat 21 lengths. 80% of the trainers would run her back for 10K the other 20% would of run her back for 7.5K. But not Beattie she knows nobody will take the horse for 4K. So she jams the horse down everyones throat for 4K twice and gets 2 wins. So now shes got the horse going good and steps it up to 7.5K. Point is she spots her horses correctly and sometimes its as simple as that. This is not rocket science fellas put the horse where it belongs and leave it there.

[Shenanigans]

One thing Beattie and Cole know how to do is spot there horses. Most trainers would of ran the horse back for 10K after they claimed her where she got beat 21 lengths. 80% of the trainers would run her back for 10K the other 20% would of run her back for 7.5K. But not Beattie she knows nobody will take the horse for 4K. So she jams the horse down everyones throat for 4K twice and gets 2 wins. So now shes got the horse going good and steps it up to 7.5K. Point is she spots her horses correctly and sometimes its as simple as that. This is not rocket science fellas put the horse where it belongs and leave it there.

Some trainers are smart enough not to claim off of some trainers. Cole never lost his horses to anyone (at least anyone that knew anything about him) because they knew the horse is spent after being in his barn. That's why these types of trainers can drop the horse and not get it claimed.

[lamboguy]

tony and i sold the horse to arthur court, trainer mike aro. we are pinhookers, so we sell first, run if we are stuck. bugsy went to phil arnold in miami, she needed some time, but always had lots of heart. stephanie handled the horse the best of anyone. she ran her when she was feeling good and had her spotted perfectly. even if i had kept the horse we would have never run out the money she has on the books, she must have been claimed 10 times already, and probably will get claimed again. just like cheap new jersey breds that get claimed every race.

[jotb]

tony and i sold the horse to arthur court, trainer mike aro. we are pinhookers, so we sell first, run if we are stuck. bugsy went to phil arnold in miami, she needed some time, but always had lots of heart. stephanie handled the horse the best of anyone. she ran her when she was feeling good and had her spotted perfectly. even if i had kept the horse we would have never run out the money she has on the books, she must have been claimed 10 times already, and probably will get claimed again. just like cheap new jersey breds that get claimed every race.

Yeah 6 trainers claimed this mare and the only trainers that did well with her were Scott Lake and Beattie. I'll give credit to Mark Shuman as well but he didn't claim her. James Hogue claimed this mare (6k) for Arthur G. Shopf (probably because Shopf didn't have a license at Del) and Arthur (owner-trainer) ran her the most (14 times) without a win. Most of the time she was running over her head with Arthur but he managed to pick up some checks. Even Dove Houghton when she claimed this mare for 10k could only win a straight 3yo 5k race. What did she win for yesterday? The same 5k.

[proximity]

jotb,

do you get your info from a site like flewwsfigs or do you compile all this data yourself??? anyhow you are really on top of this stuff. very impressive!!

[Relwob Owner]

the next guy appears to be Kevin Joy....will go from 5 to 25 percent

[supercap]

i named those names because they are controvesial, i could have brought out mike mitchell, or jeff mullins, or jamie ness, or lynn scace, or stifano, or rigateri, or doug o'neil, or todd pletcher.

everyone of the above pushes as far as they can. they all get suspensions, they pay and sit it out. that is the way racing is. the point of my post is that if you get rid of all these guys, you have no game.

i suggested the ways to change the game, and if someone doesn't abide by the rules, they get ruled off for life.

i know its not comical, but i do know some of these guys, and beleive me they do as good a job as there is to do. they all treat there horses as best as they can. the problem is, they all happen to be winners, and sometimes people get jealous because they win.

i want to tell you, dick dutrow is one great human being. he is an example of someone that was down and out and came back in our great country.
he has always been nice to me.

the asmussen family is as good as it gets. they treat me fine too, even though we are competitors in the horse sales.

i am not naiieve about what goes on.

if you want to know whats worse is when a trainer tells his client he has a good horse knowing the horse is awful. or the trainer holds the horse and compromises the horse's chances in a race. or the trainer sends in fake vet bills, and chiropractic or accupuncture bills. all that stuff happens.

and how about the trainers that take their clients to the sales and have their hands out from the consigners for kickbacks. i know of some big name trainers that have done, and maybe still do that to their clients.

the guys i mentioned all try to win every race they are in.

Seems like your personal relationships are clouding your opinion of these guys. I am sure Dutrow never got a kickback on the horses sold to IEAH! Come on all these guys go to the same school of morals. The trainers you mention are just better at bambozzling than the others.

[startngate]

While Joe's research looks impressive, it raises more questions than it answers about whether or not SB is doing something 'under the radar' to her horses.

For example, none of these summaries tell us at what level the horses were running at after the claim. It's fine to say the horse hasn't hit the board in three starts since the claim, but if the horse was claimed for $5k and those three starts were for $15k, then it would make sense. Legal Beagle is an example of this. Ran twice since being claimed for $4,750 (finishing up the track), yet was claimed by another trainer for $7k.

Other possibilities ... if the horse blew it's last condition in the race it was claimed from, then the competition would get a whole lot tougher moving up a condition or to open company. Or it's also possible the new trainer could just be a bad trainer. If it's the guy I'm thinking about I do vaguely recall Ronny Brown not being much good when he was over here in Ohio. However it does look like the trainers I do know are quality have been doing OK with her horses (Kravets for example).

There are also several references to horses that have been 'off' for awhile, implying that she had something to do with it. Unless it's proven that the horse didn't have something happen to it while under the new trainer's care, it's hard to make that stretch.

I don't know the woman, and don't follow the circuit, so it's quite possible she is a cheat. I just can't draw that conclusion from the data above.

Here's a story I related here on the boards last year.

I'm dating myself here a bit, but here's a prime example from 1993 at Penn National.

Mario Benito was the far and away leading trainer at PN that year. He claimed a horse from Jonathan Shepherd out of an open $15,000 turf race that the horse won. Benito ran the horse back for $25k, got beat badly, then $20k, got beat badly again, then $15k and got beat badly once more.

After the $15k race, I overheard Benito's exchange with Shepherd's Asst. where Mario kidded with him for sticking him with a bad horse. Shepherd's Asst. asked him what he was doing to the horse between starts, and Mario responded with some training regiment of jogs, gallops and works. Shepherd's Asst. stopped him and told him to turn him out between races (Mario had a farm across the street). Mario told him he was nuts.

Horse gets entered back for $10k, and, you guessed it ... gets beat badly again. This time Shepherd claimed the horse back.

Horse runs back two weeks later for $25k and airs. Now, an irate Benito is screaming at Shepherd's Asst, who basically said "All we did was turn him out between races ... I told you so".

Both were excellent trainers, yet only one had figured out the "trick" to the horse.This bears out a little in another post of mine from last year.

I had a conversation not long ago with a trainer and asked him specifically what he looked for in a claim.

His response:
1) Visual inspection reveals no injury that can't be easily fixed.
2) Is the horse with a struggling trainer that may not have enough money to feed, vet, or rest properly? Has the horse struggled with the new trainer after being claimed?
3) Does the horse have some back-class that shows it can win at or above the level above where it is currently racing? In simpler terms, is the horse worth the tag?
4) To a lesser extent, who were the previous connections, prior to the current owners?
5) If the horse just came to the track, where was it racing at before?Now, as successful as her stable has been, my guess is that she has the money/time/ability to get the most out of her horses, and the support of her owners to do whatever is necessary. That includes taking better care of the horses than a 'struggling-to-make-ends-meet' type of trainer is going to do. I have to believe that the environment the horse is in and the care it receives have some correlation to how well it runs. It also could mean she's very good at claiming horses she knows she can move up, or buying horses that fit the program at her track.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's possible that she's winning at the level she is because her operation is better. It's also possible that she's doing things she shouldn't be doing. Believe me, I know there are many trainers that are out there pushing the envelope as far as the rules go, or are flat out intending to break them because enforcement and penalties are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

She may be one of them, as may any/all of the 'supertrainers'.

[lamboguy]

stephanie beatie is todd beattie's x-wife. whe teamed up with another good trainer now dave wells. she gets on every horse that she has in her barn. if they don't go right they don't run. they get the best of food and care and get placed in all the right spots.

that combination gets alot of horses to the winner's circle. clembuterol doesn't.

[supercap]

stephanie beatie is todd beattie's x-wife. whe teamed up with another good trainer now dave wells. she gets on every horse that she has in her barn. if they don't go right they don't run. they get the best of food and care and get placed in all the right spots.

that combination gets alot of horses to the winner's circle. clembuterol doesn't.
If Clembuterol does not get them to the winners circle than why is it banned, on that note why ban any drug, if all they need is good food and care? Is it possible these select trainers are the only ones who know this secret?

[BIG49010]

Your top percentage trainers, don't worry about the nickels and dimes, they treat the horses with the best of everything trying to win as many races as possible.

You get some owners, take Frank Calabrase who just fired Wayne Catalano, he said " I lost 2 million dollars" but he won 38% of his races for 8 years straight.

Why did he loose 2 million, well Frank is a cry baby when he looses( which you would know if you ever listened to him at GP or AP) , so a trainer like Catalano only runs them when and where they can win and even then your not going to win 99%. If you can't make it, get out of the game!

[JWBurnie]

stephanie beatie is todd beattie's x-wife. whe teamed up with another good trainer now dave wells. she gets on every horse that she has in her barn. if they don't go right they don't run. they get the best of food and care and get placed in all the right spots.

that combination gets alot of horses to the winner's circle. clembuterol doesn't.

You're living in a cloud and must have horses with Beattie, or a close tie w/ her. If Stephanie Beattie was anywhere near as good as you claim her to be, she would have the top 3 yo's in the country; conditioning them for the Triple Crown. Far from the case.

[ponyplayerdotca]

LOOSE

opposite of TIGHT; not secure;
also slang for "a woman who's easy"

LOSE

opposite of WIN; result of having been defeated;
also, the result if one "snoozes", according to the old saying


On this board, 99% of the time, posters mean LOSE, so no more typing LOOSE, okay? :jump:

[Relwob Owner]

Dutrow is "one great human being"....wow

being down and out doesnt make someone a great human being-great human beings are people with grace, class and honor-during the Triple Crown, he pretty much threw the grace and class thing out the window and the amount of infractions he has had throws the honor thing out-open your eyes

As far as Beattie goes, I would seriously contest the idea she "gets on all of her horses"-she must get on horses all day every day and gpo from track to track.

Wake up people-if you are batting over 30 percent, you are cheating

[Relwob Owner]

You're living in a cloud and must have horses with Beattie, or a close tie w/ her. If Stephanie Beattie was anywhere near as good as you claim her to be, she would have the top 3 yo's in the country; conditioning them for the Triple Crown. Far from the case.

You are correct sir....

It is disheatening too when people say if there werent "supertrainers", there wouldnt be trainers-nope, there would just be a much more fair and honorable sport

[Relwob Owner]

Hey John.

You asked for it!!!LOL

There have been a total of 54 horses claimed from Stephanie Beattie from 10-5-2007 right through 10-04-2008. I will provide you with the name of horse, claimed price & date of claim, and some facts for 24 of the 54 horses for now.

1- Skycrossing- 7K JULY 6 2008 by Ronney Brown. Has run twice since claim and has earned zero dollars. Before the claim Beattie has a win and a place from 2 starts.

2- Navarre Light-4K JUNE 28 2008 BY MURRY ROJAS. Has run twice since claim with one third earning $1,364. Has not run since 7-26-2008. Before the claim Beattie win 3 races from 7 starts with this horse.

3- Bugsy Park-5k JULY 27 2008 by Ronney Brown. Has run twice since claim with one third earning $1,300 and $390 for a 5th place finish. Before the claim Beattie win 5 straight races with this horse.

4- Flying Fortress- 7.5k JUNE 6 2008 by Murry Rojas. Has run 4 times with a win, place, show and one 4th. Purse earnings $8,010. So far so good! Before the claim Beattie had 1 win and 1 place from 2 starts.

5- Itllbe Allright- 5k JUNE 5 2008 by Talbot J Albert. Has run twice since claim with a 4th and 5th for purse earnings of $1,320. Before the claim Beattie won with this horse 3 times, 3 place and 1 show from 8 starts.

6- Dynergy- 5k MAY 22 2008 by William T Goff. Ran 37 days later for Goff and beat only one horse. Before the claim the horse won.

7- Swift Mercedes- 12.5k MAY 18 2008 by Ronney Brown. Ran 3 times for Ronney with two 2nd's and one 5th. Purse earnings $10,700. Horse was claimed off Ronney on JULY 6TH 2008 by Henry Worcester for 8k. This horse made money for Ronney. Henry Worcester ran the horse twice and finish 6th both times earning $770. Worcester was lucky because Beattie claimed this one back for 5k but still lost money. Before Ronney Brown claimed this horse Beattie had 2 wins and one place

8- Nut Flush- 4k MAY 15 2008 by Timothy Shea. Horse ran back on June 27 2008 and finished 9th. Horse has not run back since. Before the claim the horse had back to back victories.

9- Bello Victorio- 5k MAY 15 2008 by Jose Martinez. Ran back for Jose 21 days later and won. Since then Jose has 4 other race with a 3rd, 5th, 6th, and DNF. Purse earning $10,616. Horse last ran on SEP 20 2008. Figure about 5k min. for overhead the last 4 months and this claim is hanging by a thread. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 8 starts.

10- Ojibway- 12k MAY 10 2008 by James Taglianetti. Ran twice in June and finished 2nd twice earning $5,360. The horse was claimed for 10k on JUNE 29 2008. Over a month of bills and this claim made a few pennies. Before the claim Beattie had 2 seconds with this horse.

11- Jenny's Rose- 4.5k MAY 9 2008 by Andrew Murtaugh. Ran 3 times since and his best race was a 6th place finish. Purse earnings since claim is $260. It's now OCT and this owner is in the red. Before the claim Beattie wins 4 races from 8 starts.

12- Turnaroundsoldier- 5k AUG 6 2008 by Scott Lake. Lake has not run horse back yet. Before the claim Beattie manage to get a win, place and show from 6 starts.

13- Southern Devil- 5k APRIL 23 2008 by Bruce Kravets. Horse has run back 9 times with 1 win and 5 place with purse earnings of $17,372. Kravets has the horse 5 months. A min. of 8k in overhead. This claim is turning out to be ok. Before the claim Beattie only had the horse a short time running once with a win.

14- Miss Mcpunch- 4k APRIL 19 2008 by Murry Rojas. Horse never ran since the claim. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 7 starts.

15-Fortunate Storm- 14k APRIL 13 2008 by George Albright. George ran the horse back 4 times with 3 shows. Purse earnings were $9.360. George lost the horse on JULY 3 2008 for 5k. With 4 months of overhead this turned out to be a bad claim. Before the claim Beattie had 5 wins, 3 place and 1 third from 9 starts.

16- Symbolical- 4k APRIL 12 2008 by Murry Rojas. Horse runs back 3 times with a place and show for purse earnings of $3,666. Horse has not run since June 21 2008. Not good! Before the claim Beattie had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd from 3 starts.

17- What's What- 5.5k APRIL 12 2008 by Dane Kobiskie. It took Dane 4 months to get this horse back to the races. Since returning back Dane has a win and 2 place from 3 starts. Purse earnings $11,160. It's almost 6 months now. I wonder why the horse was on the shelf for 4 months. Before the claim Beattie only ran the horse once and win by 9.5 lengths.

18- Eagle Beagle- 4,750k APRIL 11 2008 by Edwin Vasquez. Ran the horse twice and no where to be found. No purse earnings. Believe it or not the horse was actually claimed from Vasquez for 7k on JULY 2 2008. Another horse in the red. Before the claim Beattie win 4 races from 8 starts.

19- Thundering Colleen- 4.5k APRIL 3 2008 by David Lezell. Horse has run 5 times since the claim with 1 win for purse earnings of $6,900. Horse just ran at Suf on SEPT 27 2008. A little over 5 months of bills so I'm sure this horse has not made any money yet. Before the claim Beattie had 3 wins from 5 starts.

20- Eastmont- 9k MARCH 9 2008 by Raimondo Dicola. Has run twice since claim with a 3rd in a 4k claiming race and a 10th place finish for the same 4k claiming price. Purse earnings since claim is $900. Horse has not run back since MAY 7 2008. I wonder where he could be. Before the claim Beattie had 2 wins from 5 starts.

21- Tipsy Tonya- 25k MARCH 3 2008 by Kathleen Demasi. Horse ran twice with a 3rd and 4th. Purse earning $3,360. Kathleen got lucky somewhat as the horse was claimed back for 12.5K on JUNE 11 2008. Before the claim Beattie had 3 wins and never missed the board from 6 starts.

22- L Da Vinci - 5.5k FEB 28 2008 by Timothy Collins. Has run twice since claim and was up the track both times. Horse has not been seen since MAY 15 2008 but was recently entered at MNR on SEPT 8 2008 but was scr. What kills me is before the claim Beattie ran the horse once and finished up the track. If she couldn't win with the horse how is this guy going to succeed.

23-Lunar's Serenity- 25k JAN 9 2008 by Robert Bailes. It's now OCT 2008 and the horse has not even had a published workout. Before the claim Beattie had a win and a place from 2 starts.

24- Swallow That Pride- 5.5k DEC 29 2007 by Anthony Carone. The horse has run 13 times right up to AUG 10 2008. The horse has managed to grab a win and a 3rd from 13 starts with earnings of $12,020. Last 5 races horse has finished 8th, 10th, 8th, 8th and 8th. Horses longest time off since the claim has been 36 days. Nine months of bills at maybe $35 a day is about $9,500 not counting vet bills and other bills.

I'm tired John. I will try to furnish you with the other 34 claims at a later time. You can read through this for now and have a pretty good idea what the other 34 are like.

Best regards,
Joe




What an amazing piece of research-I was tracking it last year with her and a few other trainers and it was so obvious and depressing for me as a horse owner that I stopped.

One thing noone seems to talk about is the fact that the owners are the ones who make it all possible-I have spoken to many who slyly say "dont ask, dont tell".....the owners have no accountability and no incentive to change----the way these owners behave when watching their horses(obnoxious, immature) makes it clear they are nothing more than obnoxious thieves

[JWBurnie]

This owner knows exactly what is going on, and if I had to guess he's responsible for the drastic improvements.

This crap about her getting on each and every horse, is exactly that. CRAP. I ran against one her "firsters of the claim" last week. The horse won easy and was moved up by 9-10 lengths. Oh, did I mention it was 7 days off the claim?

lamboguy, how many times did Stephanie get on this one? She sure picked a good spot. I need some of that feed.

Relwob, do you own horses that run at Charles Town or in the Mid-Atlantic?

[lamboguy]

maybe we ought to sign up for the rush limbaugh stimulas plan

[Relwob Owner]

This owner knows exactly what is going on, and if I had to guess he's responsible for the drastic improvements.

This crap about her getting on each and every horse, is exactly that. CRAP. I ran against one her "firsters of the claim" last week. The horse won easy and was moved up by 9-10 lengths. Oh, did I mention it was 7 days off the claim?

lamboguy, how many times did Stephanie get on this one? She sure picked a good spot. I need some of that feed.

Relwob, do you own horses that run at Charles Town or in the Mid-Atlantic?


Charlestown and Laurel....would love to expand but I think I need more money and less morals and ethics to do it!

You brought up another good point that people who somehow defend the dopers just cant defend......The improves them in an incredibly short amount of time and that refutes any claim that he/SHE is a good horse trainer.....

I have been going to Ctown since I was 10 and my passion and love of it is the only thing that keeps me owning horses because with the chemical warfare out there, even breaking even is almost impossible

[JWBurnie]

Charlestown and Laurel....would love to expand but I think I need more money and less morals and ethics to do it!

You brought up another good point that people who somehow defend the dopers just cant defend......The improves them in an incredibly short amount of time and that refutes any claim that he/SHE is a good horse trainer.....

I have been going to Ctown since I was 10 and my passion and love of it is the only thing that keeps me owning horses because with the chemical warfare out there, even breaking even is almost impossible

I couldn't agree with you more and face the very same challenges.
Sounds like you and I have a lot in common.

I also grew up going to Charles Town and still make it up there a hanful of times a month.

Keep your morals, you'll sleep a lot better at night and it makes victory (running well) that much sweeter.

Stats of Beattie / Beattie/Cole
Since 01/11/09

Total - 66 Starters w/ 20 winners = 30%
w/ Cole - 14 Starters w/ 8 winners = 57%

If memory serves me, she won at a 44% clip for Cole in all of 2008.

Why isn't she winning at a 57% clip across her entire stable? 27% that's a pretty wide margin. I'd be pissed if I were one of her other owners. My question. Why are my horses not being ridden and fed as well as his?

[lamboguy]

i have a great idea, you guys seem like you know alot more than i do about horse racing, i have 25 2 year olds training in ocala right now, why don't you guys get together and come down to ocala and i will sell you some good horses that you can run in laurel and charlestown instead of me having to do it.

[JWBurnie]

Ahhhh. Lambo, were you just waiting to play that card? Do you feel better? Is your chest all puffed out? I couldn't give two pisses about your 25 two year olds in training.

I'm doing just fine. I don't need anything from you, and competing just fine in the Mid-Atlantic.

I would rather not play, than cheat. Good luck to you, Sir.

[Relwob Owner]

I couldn't agree with you more and face the very same challenges.
Sounds like you and I have a lot in common.

I also grew up going to Charles Town and still make it up there a hanful of times a month.

Keep your morals, you'll sleep a lot better at night and it makes victory (running well) that much sweeter.

Stats of Beattie / Beattie/Cole
Since 01/11/09

Total - 66 Starters w/ 20 winners = 30%
w/ Cole - 14 Starters w/ 8 winners = 57%


.

Why isn't she winning at a 57% clip across her entire stable? 27% that's a pretty wide margin. I'd be pissed if I were one of her other owners. My question. Why are my horses not being ridden and fed as well as his?




Agree on all counts-I would rather lose money doing things right than win not doing things in an honest way....

Good point about the Cole discrepancy-I can already hear people typing "well, Cole has better horses"---however, Kevin Joy seems to support the idea that Cole might have more to do with things.....he has recently claimed a few mediocre ones with Joy and has quickly moved them way up in a way Joy never has before he had Cole as an owner..........

[Relwob Owner]

i have a great idea, you guys seem like you know alot more than i do about horse racing, i have 25 2 year olds training in ocala right now, why don't you guys get together and come down to ocala and i will sell you some good horses that you can run in laurel and charlestown instead of me having to do it.



Having enough trouble staying above water up here!

[lamboguy]

i am dead bang serious. i don't like to have to run horses, i am a pinhooker that got stuck in a bad market. some of our horsed have great pedegry's where we know the mares from prior foals.

if you gave me a chance you might feel i am not such a bad person.

[barn11]

you're forgeting that she also "swims" them. Must have swam him to Hawaii in those 7 days! Ran back in 7 means entered back in 4 days. T%here is NOTHING you can do from a training perspective to improve a horse in 4 days.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wake up people-if you are batting over 30 percent, you are cheatingSimply not true.

[lamboguy]

poor results come from poor trainers. i get horses all the time from trainers that have big owners that don't want "cheap horses". let me tell you this whey those horses were bred they were not "cheap horses" either they got sick and had to stop their training or the person training the horse did not train the horse properly and the animal developed bad habits. if the horse is not happy the horse does not perform. if the trainer does not know how to address the problems he should not give up his day job.

i find it real interesting that i actually was trying to bring out a few points and you guys became completly stubborn and act like you know that people in this business are cheating you. you make alot of accusations with absolutely no proof to back up your statements, just rumors.

did you ever stop and think that these so-called drug trainers want you to think they use drugs so you stay away from their horses in the claim box?
and now they repeatably win race after race because you are afraid of not being able to perform as well as them.

[JWBurnie]

Lamboguy, point taken. However, then please explain her winning percentages. Shouldn't she have roughly the same winning percentage across her entire stable? Why would she have a win % twice as high for a single owner's horses? If you can explain that, I will never make another comment about Beattie being anything then a so called "great trainer".

Once you explain that, please also explain to me why she doesn't have that string of top 3 yo's. I'd really like to understand and learn a few points.

I'm all ear's. Thank you.

[Relwob Owner]

I guess that my statement was about anything being over 30 percent being cheating was a bit severe....however, over 35 percent off the claim is tough to believe and 57 percent with one owner is pretty ridiculous....everyone on this forum seems to be pretty knowledgable and knows how hard it is to win a race and how many things have to break your way-percentages that are so high simply cant be explained away by "swimming techniques".....


Plus, how can anyone really say what is true and not true? The testing requirements vary so much and trainers have become like chemists staying ahead of the curve with their respective vets-it seems to me that the percentages really do tell the story-if one or two trainers do that much better doesnt it stand to reason that they are doing something the others arent and arent allowed to do? Plus, if these trainers are such :great horseman", why are they running 4K claimers and why dont they get good young horses to develop?

[Relwob Owner]

poor results come from poor trainers. i get horses all the time from trainers that have big owners that don't want "cheap horses". let me tell you this whey those horses were bred they were not "cheap horses" either they got sick and had to stop their training or the person training the horse did not train the horse properly and the animal developed bad habits. if the horse is not happy the horse does not perform. if the trainer does not know how to address the problems he should not give up his day job.

i find it real interesting that i actually was trying to bring out a few points and you guys became completly stubborn and act like you know that people in this business are cheating you. you make alot of accusations with absolutely no proof to back up your statements, just rumors.

did you ever stop and think that these so-called drug trainers want you to think they use drugs so you stay away from their horses in the claim box?
and now they repeatably win race after race because you are afraid of not being able to perform as well as them.



Man, get your head out of the sand! This is why I would never buy those 25 two year olds from you-these arent rumors, they are stats-when a trainer wins 57 percent for one owner and is often 45 percent off the claim, often running back in less than two weeks, what do you think they are doing? No amount of swimming or differences in training can improve a horse so much in such a short period of time.

Also, all these horses from "bad trainers'-how do you think it is possible to improve them in 7 days?????????????


And no, this isnt sour grapes coming from me and the other people on the forum-it is just disgust and frustration that the sport we love is being corrupted in so many ways-the fact is this-nothing is ever going to change unless the owners are suspended as well as the trainers-tracks are scared tpo do this because they think they will lose owners-what they dont realize is they lose more owners already because people dont get involved because they realize the chemical warfare makes things absurdly unfair.

[Relwob Owner]

poor results come from poor trainers. i get horses all the time from trainers that have big owners that don't want "cheap horses". let me tell you this whey those horses were bred they were not "cheap horses" either they got sick and had to stop their training or the person training the horse did not train the horse properly and the animal developed bad habits. if the horse is not happy the horse does not perform. if the trainer does not know how to address the problems he should not give up his day job.

i find it real interesting that i actually was trying to bring out a few points and you guys became completly stubborn and act like you know that people in this business are cheating you. you make alot of accusations with absolutely no proof to back up your statements, just rumors.

did you ever stop and think that these so-called drug trainers want you to think they use drugs so you stay away from their horses in the claim box?
and now they repeatably win race after race because you are afraid of not being able to perform as well as them.



You are right-I am afraid I wont be able to perform as well as them-why? Because if you look at horses claimed off of them, the horses go straight downhill, even if they are claimed by a competent trainer....so, whatever they do has obviously worked but the good thing is that I can sleep at night

[JWBurnie]

Simply not true.

Pace, please name a few trainers with a win % greater than 30% that you don't question.

[startngate]

Lamboguy, point taken. However, then please explain her winning percentages. Shouldn't she have roughly the same winning percentage across her entire stable? Why would she have a win % twice as high for a single owner's horses? If you can explain that, I will never make another comment about Beattie being anything then a so called "great trainer".

Once you explain that, please also explain to me why she doesn't have that string of top 3 yo's. I'd really like to understand and learn a few points.

I'm all ear's. Thank you.I'll take a shot ... here are several possibilities ...

1) The owner with the higher win % has better horses than the rest of the stable's owners.
2) The owner with the higher win % doesn't care at what level the horses run, doesn't mind losing horses to claims, and can afford to drop horses from where they have been running to where they belong.
3) The owner has more money than the rest of the stable's owners, so horses can be rotated through the barn, turned out when they need rest or are hurt, or sold when they no longer fit the program.
4) The owner has horses that fit 'key' conditions offered by the Racing Secretary, so they run in shorter fields; and,
5) Quite simply, how can you expect the same win % among all owners throughout a stable? Every owner has different financial means, different attitudes about the business, and different quality and quantity of stock. Name me one business where a company sells multiple products at the same quantity, and at the same profit level?
6) The owner tells the trainer not to enter his horses in any race that he doesn't have a good chance to win.
7) You should be asking the question the other way, as in why doesn't the rest of the stable have the same win % as the one owner. Don't you think if she was cheating she would be doing the same thing across the entire stable?

As to why she doesn't have a stable of top three year olds, that's pretty simple too. She doesn't play in that space of the game. Why doesn't Bob Baffert have $5,000 claimers in his barn? Why do some great trainers only keep 20 head in the barn, while others keep several hundred? Every good trainer finds their 'niche' and sticks with it either forever, or until they want a new challenge and decide to try something new.

Maybe it's because they are happy doing what they do, and are good at it.

I've seen many a jockey who I thought could ride anywhere toiling away at a track I would consider not worthy of their talent. They stay because they are top dog and are making a very nice living, and would take a big hit financially until they got going if they moved somewhere else.

How many coaches do you see go from the college ranks to the pros and then return because they prefer coaching the college kids, or didn't like the pressure? Happens all the time, in every walk of life.

Man, get your head out of the sand! This is why I would never buy those 25 two year olds from you-these arent rumors, they are stats-when a trainer wins 57 percent for one owner and is often 45 percent off the claim, often running back in less than two weeks, what do you think they are doing? No amount of swimming or differences in training can improve a horse so much in such a short period of time.

Also, all these horses from "bad trainers'-how do you think it is possible to improve them in 7 days?????????????Yes it is. For one thing if the horse hasn't been fed properly because the previous trainer was dead broke, then proper nutrition could help immensely, as could a change of equipment that the previous trainer hadn't thought of. The top stable probably also has better stable help leading to better care, and the best jockey, which could also help move them up.

And don't forget that the horse could possibly not be running at the right level, so a simple switch of conditions to the proper spot would move a horse up too. At the slot fueled racetracks you can make money by claiming a horse, dropping it down, winning the race and getting the horse claimed.

For example, a CL $4,000 NW in 6 months race at CT has a pot of $9,000 ($5,400 to the winner). Someone could claim a horse out of an $8,000 open claiming race that was eligible and drop the horse down to that race and still make a $1,400 profit winning the race if the horse got claimed. Huge class difference in those two races. And that's just at the bottom. The swings are even bigger the higher up you go in claiming price. Drop the same horse to an open $5,000 and the pot is $13,000 ($7,800 to the winner) which makes for a $4,800 profit.

[lamboguy]

i know of one horse that stephanie claimed that had an out of line pelvis, she straightened it out and raised up the horse and won 5 races in a row. someone claimed the horse and didn't keep up on the pelvis and the horse didn't win.

stephanine knows what she is claiming before she claims the horse. she knows if she can improve him before she puts her hands on them.

i bought one last month myself from a good trainer in florida that has a big stable and the owner don't want cheap horse's. i found what's wrong with the horse and i will win with him in a nw2 $25k race in penn national. i paid $6000 for the horse. his problem is weak suspenseries.

[barn11]

i know of one horse that stephanie claimed that had an out of line pelvis, she straightened it out and raised up the horse and won 5 races in a row. someone claimed the horse and didn't keep up on the pelvis and the horse didn't win.

stephanine knows what she is claiming before she claims the horse. she knows if she can improve him before she puts her hands on them.

i bought one last month myself from a good trainer in florida that has a big stable and the owner don't want cheap horse's. i found what's wrong with the horse and i will win with him in a nw2 $25k race in penn national. i paid $6000 for the horse. his problem is weak suspenseries.


If you want to argue that without proof , all these allegations are just sour grapes, I would see your point. But the above arguements are utterly absurb. You're loosing your credibility with the first and third statements. I read them to a veterinarian-he's still laughing!!. And quite frankly the second statement very strongly suggests that she is acquiring knowledge about other ttrainers horses in a =shall we say-less than ethical manner.

[JWBurnie]

Startngate,

You make very valid points, but in this case, I don't agree. She has far too many positives.

"Don't you think if she was cheating she would be doing the same thing across the entire stable?"

In this case, it's not all her. Just ask Kevin Joy. Look at his record over the last year; check out his positives, suspension's & track record.

[startngate]

Just so my stand on this is clear ... I don't know her ... I don't follow the circuit ... and have no earthly clue about whether or not she is cheating.

She may very well be cheating, and if she is I hope they catch her and hang her for it.

Unfortunately, no one has put forth anything in this thread that proves she is. I'm just pointing out that there are plausible explainations as to why she is doing so well that do not involve cheating.

As for her (or anyone else's) record. You have to look at all of it and figure out what exactly each ruling is about before passing judgement there as well. I haven't seen anyone post this yet, so I can't comment. However, keep in mind there is a big difference between an overage of a legal medication and using a banned substance when you evaluate a trainer's record. Horses metabolize differently and a perfectly acceptable dose given with no mal intentions could result in a positive.

There was a big bruhaha over Dutrow having hundreds of rulings that cropped up last year and people wanted to hang him. Upon further investigation, it was found he actually only had 72 rulings on his record.

Then Steve Crist took the time to actually look at the record and only 13 of the rulings involved medication. Of those 13, 10 involved overages of bute and lasix, 2 were for Clenbuterol (which is legal) and only one involved a banned substance, Mevipicaine. He got 90 days for that one, rightfully so.

Hang her if you want ... bet her if you think she has an edge.

More importantly send the details of what you suspect to the WV Racing Commission and to the NTRA (which now has an 'integrity' panel, such as it is) and maybe someone will start looking around about this stuff. I still think racing has to get into the the 'no raceday medications' mentality before we see anything done to combat the problem. I just hope I'm still around to see it.

[supercap]

poor results come from poor trainers. i get horses all the time from trainers that have big owners that don't want "cheap horses". let me tell you this whey those horses were bred they were not "cheap horses" either they got sick and had to stop their training or the person training the horse did not train the horse properly and the animal developed bad habits. if the horse is not happy the horse does not perform. if the trainer does not know how to address the problems he should not give up his day job.

i find it real interesting that i actually was trying to bring out a few points and you guys became completly stubborn and act like you know that people in this business are cheating you. you make alot of accusations with absolutely no proof to back up your statements, just rumors.

did you ever stop and think that these so-called drug trainers want you to think they use drugs so you stay away from their horses in the claim box?
and now they repeatably win race after race because you are afraid of not being able to perform as well as them.

I thought you said you were not naive? You make statements that you are friends with all these trainers ,could it be possible that you are not the only one who has first hand info. . I have seen proof first hand of the cheating going on in this business and from the sounds of it they have you bamboozled. Wake up ,open your eyes and ears stop defending thses guys . Trainers are worse than lawyers!!!!

[Niko]

If you want to argue that without proof , all these allegations are just sour grapes, I would see your point. But the above arguements are utterly absurb. You're loosing your credibility with the first and third statements. I read them to a veterinarian-he's still laughing!!. And quite frankly the second statement very strongly suggests that she is acquiring knowledge about other ttrainers horses in a =shall we say-less than ethical manner.

Thank you for adding this.....it's amazing how some people will try to explain away things and think no one is checking...

Maybe if they frooze blood samples and went after these trainers and vets for race fixing when they knew what they were testing for, things would change. Don't know legally if they could do that or not.

Right now there's too much easy money to be made without fear of any real repurcussions.

[lamboguy]

my favorite people at the race tracks are the jock agents. you know ahead of time it is their job to lie for their rider. but most agents are good people so you just accept it.

as far as being naiive, i just have no proof and now that in the places stephanie is running there are alot of weak trainers there, so she has less competition to overcome. i know she has giant results and unexplainable ones at times, yet it is possible.

michael gill wins lots of races that i can't explain either, and when he wins it is more of a shock sometimes, yet he will wind up winning 800 or more races this year.

[Relwob Owner]

Just so my stand on this is clear ... I don't know her ... I don't follow the circuit ... and have no earthly clue about whether or not she is cheating.

She may very well be cheating, and if she is I hope they catch her and hang her for it.

Unfortunately, no one has put forth anything in this thread that proves she is. I'm just pointing out that there are plausible explainations as to why she is doing so well that do not involve cheating.

As for her (or anyone else's) record. You have to look at all of it and figure out what exactly each ruling is about before passing judgement there as well. I haven't seen anyone post this yet, so I can't comment. However, keep in mind there is a big difference between an overage of a legal medication and using a banned substance when you evaluate a trainer's record. Horses metabolize differently and a perfectly acceptable dose given with no mal intentions could result in a positive.

There was a big bruhaha over Dutrow having hundreds of rulings that cropped up last year and people wanted to hang him. Upon further investigation, it was found he actually only had 72 rulings on his record.

Then Steve Crist took the time to actually look at the record and only 13 of the rulings involved medication. Of those 13, 10 involved overages of bute and lasix, 2 were for Clenbuterol (which is legal) and only one involved a banned substance, Mevipicaine. He got 90 days for that one, rightfully so.

Hang her if you want ... bet her if you think she has an edge.

More importantly send the details of what you suspect to the WV Racing Commission and to the NTRA (which now has an 'integrity' panel, such as it is) and maybe someone will start looking around about this stuff. I still think racing has to get into the the 'no raceday medications' mentality before we see anything done to combat the problem. I just hope I'm still around to see it.


I would strongly dissuade anyone from trying to get anything from the WVA racing commission-it is a complete waste of time.....I tried with the drug thing and they could not care less...anything involving some sort of action to be taken is not in their interests....I also pointed out the absurdity of having active trainers write the races(i believe it is two out of three on the committee are trainers) and got no response either.....

[Relwob Owner]

Thank you for adding this.....it's amazing how some people will try to explain away things and think no one is checking...

Maybe if they frooze blood samples and went after these trainers and vets for race fixing when they knew what they were testing for, things would change. Don't know legally if they could do that or not.

Right now there's too much easy money to be made without fear of any real repurcussions.

This discussion has gotten heated but I find it very interesting and as a new guy on this board, thank all of you guys who have so much interest....I was starting to think I am the only guy who still cares!

Question to throw out that steers it away from Beattie a bit....what should be done to stop drugs in general? I think things should be tied to the owner and that would get rid of things pretty quickly....I am sure that would lead to a ton of legal issues but think of how well it would work-if a trainer tests positive, who would want to own for him/her when they cant run anywhere?

Suspending the trainer does nothing-they just hand the horses off and resume later and nothing changes.....just ask Biancone who got caught with frickin Cobra Venom and is now back in California!

[Mineshaft]

If you want to argue that without proof , all these allegations are just sour grapes, I would see your point. But the above arguements are utterly absurb. You're loosing your credibility with the first and third statements. I read them to a veterinarian-he's still laughing!!. And quite frankly the second statement very strongly suggests that she is acquiring knowledge about other ttrainers horses in a =shall we say-less than ethical manner.





I disagree about the ethical manner in which you acquire info about a horse. Im sure shes asking jocks, other trainers, gallop boys, grooms about horses she wants to claim. That is not unethical. Im sure every horse on the backside of C'town someone knows about the horse. Its like that at every track.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by barn11
If you want to argue that without proof , all these allegations are just sour grapes, I would see your point. But the above arguements are utterly absurb. You're loosing your credibility with the first and third statements. I read them to a veterinarian-he's still laughing!!. And quite frankly the second statement very strongly suggests that she is acquiring knowledge about other ttrainers horses in a =shall we say-less than ethical manner.



While I wouldnt doubt she might do that, it probably isnt happening at CTown-she is rarely if ever there-

[JWBurnie]

"what should be done to stop drugs in general?"

I agree, go after the owners. They're indirectly responsible and should be completely aware of what their horses are receiving (they're paying for it). If they were to begin fining owners the same amount as the purse they would have earned for their finish position, I don't think we would see anywhere near the number of positives. An owner would only be burned one or two times by any one trainer (if they really were not aware).



Mineshaft,



"I disagree about the ethical manner in which you acquire info about a horse. I’m sure shes asking jocks, other trainers, gallop boys, grooms about horses she wants to claim. That is not unethical. Im sure every horse on the backside of C'town someone knows about the horse. Its like that at every track."



Wouldn't you call this insider trading? I do. It does go on all the time, but it's not right or ethical. Watch replays, view the horse in the paddock or in the morning, analyze pp's but don't ask the jockey who rode the horse last; and strong arm him to tell you whether the horse is better than it's been running. It's unethical.

[lamboguy]

this topic is just like betting after the bell.

what this game needs is a commision with some strength behind. the horseracing game needs it badly and it needs it NOW!

whether there is cheating with drugs or not you need people to be convinced that the sport is on the level

[JWBurnie]

[QUOTE=While I wouldnt doubt she might do that, it probably isnt happening at CTown-she is rarely if ever there-[/QUOTE]

Your right, she is rarely there, but her main owner usually is.

I'm not going to comment on whether this occurs at CT or not, however, rumors of it occuring are not uncommon.

"Cash is King", greed is in, "Show me the money!!"

[JWBurnie]

this topic is just like betting after the bell.

what this game needs is a commision with some strength behind. the horseracing game needs it badly and it needs it NOW!

whether there is cheating with drugs or not you need people to be convinced that the sport is on the level

I agree, 100%.

Can someone tell me the role that the NTRA plays? Have they ever tried to bring all racing commissions together? They brand themselves like the NFL, MLB, NBA, but appear to be worthless on many, many levels.

[barn11]

I disagree about the ethical manner in which you acquire info about a horse. Im sure shes asking jocks, other trainers, gallop boys, grooms about horses she wants to claim. That is not unethical. Im sure every horse on the backside of C'town someone knows about the horse. Its like that at every track.

While I'm sure its done everywhere as you say, it is not only unethical, but probably against the rules. Technically a claim can be voided if the trainer evens looks at the horse in the receiving barn before a race. The really sad part of this is we're discussing ethical behavior - we may as well be discussing "honest polititians"

It may not be as bad on her part to ask as it would be for the jock to answer, but the reality is , she has a big, powerful stable and the horse may be owned/trained by someone with far fewer-who is the jock going to take care of?? And don't think for a moment she doesn't use this. But I can assure you-have it happen to you and you would drastically change your tune.

TOTALLY agree that the trainer suspensions are a total joke. Insulting actually. We need to make them mean something. But that will only help after we improve the testing.

[lamboguy]

the only thing i have ever seen the NTRA do is come up with a slogan

GO BABY GO

they should pay attention to their slogan, they have done nothing to keep this great sport alive.

[JWBurnie]

Didnt they drop "Go baby GO", and changed to "Who do you like today?"?

I joined the NTRA a number of years back, thinking I needed to support the industry. I received a weak into letter mentioning a few discounts, a bumper sticker (which I display proudly) and a sweet keychain. However, I have heard nothing since. You would of thought my name/address would be on every list in the thoroughbred industry (catalogs, charities, auctions, etc). Not the case. Nothing.

[Mineshaft]

"what should be done to stop drugs in general?"

I agree, go after the owners. They're indirectly responsible and should be completely aware of what their horses are receiving (they're paying for it). If they were to begin fining owners the same amount as the purse they would have earned for their finish position, I don't think we would see anywhere near the number of positives. An owner would only be burned one or two times by any one trainer (if they really were not aware).



Mineshaft,



"I disagree about the ethical manner in which you acquire info about a horse. I’m sure shes asking jocks, other trainers, gallop boys, grooms about horses she wants to claim. That is not unethical. Im sure every horse on the backside of C'town someone knows about the horse. Its like that at every track."



Wouldn't you call this insider trading? I do. It does go on all the time, but it's not right or ethical. Watch replays, view the horse in the paddock or in the morning, analyze pp's but don't ask the jockey who rode the horse last; and strong arm him to tell you whether the horse is better than it's been running. It's unethical.




Well we agree to disagree. i dont string arm jocks to give me info. Some do and some dont you have to know woo talks and who doesnt. I believe if you dont ask jocks,trainers, grooms then your not doing your job.

[Mineshaft]

While I'm sure its done everywhere as you say, it is not only unethical, but probably against the rules. Technically a claim can be voided if the trainer evens looks at the horse in the receiving barn before a race. The really sad part of this is we're discussing ethical behavior - we may as well be discussing "honest polititians"

It may not be as bad on her part to ask as it would be for the jock to answer, but the reality is , she has a big, powerful stable and the horse may be owned/trained by someone with far fewer-who is the jock going to take care of?? And don't think for a moment she doesn't use this. But I can assure you-have it happen to you and you would drastically change your tune.

TOTALLY agree that the trainer suspensions are a total joke. Insulting actually. We need to make them mean something. But that will only help after we improve the testing.






I think your going overboard about looking in a stall at the receiving barn. if i pass by and look in the stall theres nothing wrong with that. hell if i wanted i could follow the horse all the way to the paddock if i wanted to.

[startngate]

Technically a claim can be voided if the trainer evens looks at the horse in the receiving barn before a race.Exactly where can this occur? I've never seen a rule to this effect in any jurisdiction, and there certainly isn't one in West Virginia. I checked the rules:

http://www.wvracingcommission.com/rulestdf.pdf

You're going to have to show some proof to back that statement up.

While it may go against the backside 'code' to try to get inside information about a potential claim, there is nothing 'illegal' or 'against the rules' in doing so. I've even seen horses get claimed from a trainer by someone stabled in their own barn. Trainers and agents ask around about horses all the time, watch horses walk over to race, and spend a great deal of time scoping them out in the paddock.

Claims can be voided for many procedural things, like mis-spelling the name of the horse, or depositing the slip too late. They don't get voided because someone took a peek in a stall.

[Mineshaft]

Exactly where can this occur? I've never seen a rule to this effect in any jurisdiction, and there certainly isn't one in West Virginia. I checked the rules:

http://www.wvracingcommission.com/rulestdf.pdf

You're going to have to show some proof to back that statement up.

While it may go against the backside 'code' to try to get inside information about a potential claim, there is nothing 'illegal' or 'against the rules' in doing so. I've even seen horses get claimed from a trainer by someone stabled in their own barn. Trainers and agents ask around about horses all the time, watch horses walk over to race, and spend a great deal of time scoping them out in the paddock.

Claims can be voided for many procedural things, like mis-spelling the name of the horse, or depositing the slip too late. They don't get voided because someone took a peek in a stall.






I think hes grasping.

Now if you go into the stall and start flexing the horse then sure the claim can ve voided. I know a guy who went to a trainers farm found the horse he was going to claim started flexing the horse and 2 days later claimed the horse. Stewards voided the claim because they knew the guy went over to his farm and was flexing the horse. They let the guy claim the horse then voided it.

But as far as passing by the stall and stopping and looking at the horse from the shedrow no they cant do anything.

[JWBurnie]

Well we agree to disagree. i dont string arm jocks to give me info. Some do and some dont you have to know woo talks and who doesnt. I believe if you dont ask jocks,trainers, grooms then your not doing your job.

That's right, you have to find out which unethical piece's of crap are getting off of people's horses and telling others inside information that they have no business telling. The jocks not talking either have ethics, don't like you or the trainer they talk to is keeping their eyes on your stock. In my eyes, a jockey is an independent contractor that works solely for the owner/trainer of the individual horse who's back he is on. No conversation of substance should be had on any one horse, unless with the horses direct connections. I'm sure most all riders talk to certain trainers, but the better they are and more established, the less I would hope they'd talk.
It's a conflict of interest that every jockey should respect.

[JWBurnie]

While it may go against the backside 'code' to try to get inside information about a potential claim, there is nothing 'illegal' or 'against the rules' in doing so. I've even seen horses get claimed from a trainer by someone stabled in their own barn. Trainers and agents ask around about horses all the time, watch horses walk over to race, and spend a great deal of time scoping them out in the paddock.

Claims can be voided for many procedural things, like mis-spelling the name of the horse, or depositing the slip too late. They don't get voided because someone took a peek in a stall.

I just think when you play on that side of the line (anything in life), you're opening yourself up to a whole nother set of rules. You believe in Karma?

[CryingForTheHorses]

I think hes grasping.

Now if you go into the stall and start flexing the horse then sure the claim can ve voided. I know a guy who went to a trainers farm found the horse he was going to claim started flexing the horse and 2 days later claimed the horse. Stewards voided the claim because they knew the guy went over to his farm and was flexing the horse. They let the guy claim the horse then voided it.

But as far as passing by the stall and stopping and looking at the horse from the shedrow no they cant do anything.

Oh yes they can!!!
I myself have been taken to the stewards last year for a claim I made,Seems I wasnt allowed around the recieving barn or around the saddling area to look at what I was spending my owners money on. I was accused of using "Unethical Claiming Practices" by steward Charlie Camac. I then proceeded to mention to Mr Camac that he wasnt fair in not letting us look at the animal..I won my case but was warned that further infractions would be dealt with..I still look..I also had a hotwalker claim a horse from me..HE got to keep the horse because "He" put up his money..

[Mineshaft]

If that steward would of voided the claim i would of sued the crap out of him. You have an owners license or trainers license that entitles you anywhere on the backside. You could of been visiting a friend at the receiving barn.

[startngate]

I just think when you play on that side of the line (anything in life), you're opening yourself up to a whole nother set of rules. You believe in Karma?I'm sorry, did I say anything about Karma? Or playing 'on that side of the line' was a good thing? Or that what was being discussed was ethical?

There's a big difference between 'unwritten rules of acceptable behavior' and 'illegal'.

I simply stated that there was no rule against it. Stewards always have a 'conduct detrimental to the best interest of racing' angle they can play, but it's a slippery slope. Once it's used, it has to be interpreted exactly the same way every time or they will get shredded by any decent attorney on appeal.

In McSchell's case if there actually is a rule in Mr. Camac's jurisdiction called 'unethical claiming practices' then perhaps you could see a claim voided for it. Otherwise, all they can do is call you in and slap your hands, which sounds like is basically what happened.

And yes, I do believe in karma ... but that would not keep me from looking at a horse as much as I could before I claimed it ... whether it be in the morning, or in the walking ring. It would keep me from going in a stall and flexing the horse, or jogging it up and down the shedrow.

[Mineshaft]

I dont think were saying we would go in and flex the horse i think what were talking about is passing by the stall and looking at the horse to maybe see if it has an ankle, if its crooked or not, anything that would make you claim the horse or not claim the horse. This is done everywhere theres nothing wrong with it. If you dont want anyone to see your horse put a blanket in front of thet stall door.

[Relwob Owner]

I dont think were saying we would go in and flex the horse i think what were talking about is passing by the stall and looking at the horse to maybe see if it has an ankle, if its crooked or not, anything that would make you claim the horse or not claim the horse. This is done everywhere theres nothing wrong with it. If you dont want anyone to see your horse put a blanket in front of thet stall door.

I cant say that I think that asking around is unethical-it seems as if the risk of getting bad info would outweigh the good info in most cases....

[JWBurnie]

How would you feel in this scenario? You have a horse coming off a long layoff; is training great but needs to get a race under him. However, the rider/jock you were using in the morning has been running his mouth to another trainer, telling him that your horse was live and should be claimed? All your time and money pissed away by some unethical piece of crap.

[Mineshaft]

How would you feel in this scenario? You have a horse coming off a long layoff; is training great but needs to get a race under him. However, the rider/jock you were using in the morning has been running his mouth to another trainer, telling him that your horse was live and should be claimed? All your time and money pissed away by some unethical piece of crap.





Could care less. My horse is in for a tag then hes for sale. If he was training super coming off a layoff and i didnt want to lose him then i would of stepped him up. When they claim a horse from me thats money in my pocket. Theres thousands of horses out there that i can go claim when i lose one.

[lamboguy]

How would you feel in this scenario? You have a horse coming off a long layoff; is training great but needs to get a race under him. However, the rider/jock you were using in the morning has been running his mouth to another trainer, telling him that your horse was live and should be claimed? All your time and money pissed away by some unethical piece of crap.

in california they have a new rule that if you run a horse off a layoff, you can run him back for the same claiming tag or higher and your horse cannot be claimed. if you want to run him back cheaper someone can drop the slip.

i think this is a good rule for racing, because if the horse is good he will run back for the same thing and the handicapper is on less of a guess.

we just claimed one in gulfstream, the horse's prior race was $40k in kentucky, he shows up 3 months later for $17,500. the horse win by 9 that race and there was no shake.

[JWBurnie]

in california they have a new rule that if you run a horse off a layoff, you can run him back for the same claiming tag or higher and your horse cannot be claimed. if you want to run him back cheaper someone can drop the slip.

i think this is a good rule for racing, because if the horse is good he will run back for the same thing and the handicapper is on less of a guess.

we just claimed one in gulfstream, the horse's prior race was $40k in kentucky, he shows up 3 months later for $17,500. the horse win by 9 that race and there was no shake.

Lamboguy,

If you don't mind me asking, what was your claim based on? Were you able to get inside information?

[Mineshaft]

in california they have a new rule that if you run a horse off a layoff, you can run him back for the same claiming tag or higher and your horse cannot be claimed. if you want to run him back cheaper someone can drop the slip.

i think this is a good rule for racing, because if the horse is good he will run back for the same thing and the handicapper is on less of a guess.

we just claimed one in gulfstream, the horse's prior race was $40k in kentucky, he shows up 3 months later for $17,500. the horse win by 9 that race and there was no shake.




Personally i dont like the rule. If your horse is coming off a layoff and you want to protect it why not up the horse to a higher claiming level so you know it wont get claimed. Its going to need the race anway so run him for the higher tag that way it wont get claimed.

[JWBurnie]

we just claimed one in gulfstream, the horse's prior race was $40k in kentucky, he shows up 3 months later for $17,500. the horse win by 9 that race and there was no shake.

By the way, great claim. I saw him up close at the IL Derby, nice horse. Best of luck.

[Relwob Owner]

How would you feel in this scenario? You have a horse coming off a long layoff; is training great but needs to get a race under him. However, the rider/jock you were using in the morning has been running his mouth to another trainer, telling him that your horse was live and should be claimed? All your time and money pissed away by some unethical piece of crap.


If he just needs a race and you dont want to lose him, put him in an allowance race. Plus, if you dont want people blabbing about your interests, you are in the wrong business-that is par for the course in horse racing. Like the other guy said, too, you can just claim him or any other horse as well

[lamboguy]

my trainer knows his way around florida. saw the horse in the paddock, he looked good and dropped the slip.

the horse has some pedigree too, he's by stormcat.

[Relwob Owner]

Personally i dont like the rule. If your horse is coming off a layoff and you want to protect it why not up the horse to a higher claiming level so you know it wont get claimed. Its going to need the race anway so run him for the higher tag that way it wont get claimed.


I dont like the rule, either-makes no sense that a horse that is off a layoff gets exposed to a different standard than others.....it always amazes me that when racing officials finally get off their butts and do things, they dont make any sense

[Relwob Owner]

in california they have a new rule that if you run a horse off a layoff, you can run him back for the same claiming tag or higher and your horse cannot be claimed. if you want to run him back cheaper someone can drop the slip.

i think this is a good rule for racing, because if the horse is good he will run back for the same thing and the handicapper is on less of a guess.

we just claimed one in gulfstream, the horse's prior race was $40k in kentucky, he shows up 3 months later for $17,500. the horse win by 9 that race and there was no shake.


I dont get how this is a good rule for racing.....it esentially turns claiming races into allowance races and gives horses running off the layoff a distinct advantage as far as their owners are concerned.

As far as making it easier for the handicappers, that is part of the game and didnt need to be fixed

[lamboguy]

we don't live in a perfect world. but look at it this way, when the horse is capable of winning for say $12,500, he comes off the layoff and runs for $7500.....you as the bettor don't know if they are trying to drop an egg in or just want to steal a purse. horses that win get hurt and need layoffs. the bad horses of the world don't get injured.

[Mineshaft]

If he just needs a race and you dont want to lose him, put him in an allowance race. Plus, if you dont want people blabbing about your interests, you are in the wrong business-that is par for the course in horse racing. Like the other guy said, too, you can just claim him or any other horse as well







I love you man..........

[Relwob Owner]

I love you man..........


That is the kind of positive reinforcement that gets me through the day :)

[Relwob Owner]

we don't live in a perfect world. but look at it this way, when the horse is capable of winning for say $12,500, he comes off the layoff and runs for $7500.....you as the bettor don't know if they are trying to drop an egg in or just want to steal a purse. horses that win get hurt and need layoffs. the bad horses of the world don't get injured.

That is part of the game as a bettor-you have to analyze the horse, the conncections, etc and see what the drop may mean-I would rather have the bettors uncertain than protecting horses from getting claimed and compromising the competitive nature of the game. One thing about horse racing that actually works is the claiming and allowance structure. By putting conditions on when a claimer can be claimed in a claiming race, the California people are getting involved in something they shouldnt be.....they should be more worried that a cobra venom using thief is running horses at their tracks.......

[Relwob Owner]

we don't live in a perfect world. but look at it this way, when the horse is capable of winning for say $12,500, he comes off the layoff and runs for $7500.....you as the bettor don't know if they are trying to drop an egg in or just want to steal a purse. horses that win get hurt and need layoffs. the bad horses of the world don't get injured.


as far as "horses that win get hurt and need layoffs and bad horses dont get injured", that doesnt seem to make any sense-every good horse gets injured? Bad horses dont get injured????


Also, in earlier posts you adamantly supported Stephanie Beattie-now, you are siding with the bettor and how hard it is to analyze a horse that drops? Beattie constantly does this, so what side of the fence are your really on and do you see how you are contradicting yourself???

[Pace Cap'n]

Wasn't the intent of the Calif. claiming rule to encourage owners to be less reluctant to lay up a sore horse?

[Mineshaft]

With all the talk about horses coming back off layoffs how do you as an owner look at those horses when deciding on horses to claim?




Personally when horses coming off of layoffs stay at the same level or drop to another level i as an owner run as far as away as i can. I dont even look at them for claiming purposes.


What are some other areas that you as owners look at when claiming horses?

[Mineshaft]

Wasn't the intent of the Calif. claiming rule to encourage owners to be less reluctant to lay up a sore horse?






No Cali owners were getting upset when there horses ran 1st time off long layoffs and were claimed. They were whining they were losing money by turning the horse out then spending all that money to bring them back only to have then claimed. They werent getting there money back that they put in to bringing them back off the layoff.

[Relwob Owner]

With all the talk about horses coming back off layoffs how do you as an owner look at those horses when deciding on horses to claim?




Personally when horses coming off of layoffs stay at the same level or drop to another level i as an owner run as far as away as i can. I dont even look at them for claiming purposes.


What are some other areas that you as owners look at when claiming horses?

Couldnt agree more with horses coming off layoffs-the people in California are pretty gutsy claiming horses off of layoffs. I dont do it.



I own at CT and Laurel and am pretty active claiming-biggest thing I look at is conditions-seems like at CT especially that after they win their fourth race, it gets really hard.....the best startegy can often be to try and claim a maiden off a less than stellar trainer and try to run through the conditions with them.

anothe rthing I have learned is that you get what you pay for and that claiming two 15K horses often works better than four 7500 ones.

[Mineshaft]

Couldnt agree more with horses coming off layoffs-the people in California are pretty gutsy claiming horses off of layoffs. I dont do it.



I own at CT and Laurel and am pretty active claiming-biggest thing I look at is conditions-seems like at CT especially that after they win their fourth race, it gets really hard.....the best startegy can often be to try and claim a maiden off a less than stellar trainer and try to run through the conditions with them.

anothe rthing I have learned is that you get what you pay for and that claiming two 15K horses often works better than four 7500 ones.




Sent you a PM..

[lamboguy]

what we forget is horseracing is like a boxing match. like we know both horses and boxers are conditioned athletes. i good boxer doesn't go down when the other guy throws a punch at him. a good horse tries hard even though he might be a little sore. a good horse comes back and trains well after he comes back lame after a tough race. a bad horse does not.

i have seen champions come out of the claiming ranks. big sis is one that comes to mind. she got claimed for $50k. not every horse is a good claim and you are dealing with risk tolerance when you claim a horse. as far as i can see there is no set formula for claiming "right" horses.

as far as stephanie goes and others that jam horses at you as a bettor it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. it all boils down to risk reward. since no one ever does well after they claim a horse from stephanie she gets a pass on the horses she runs cheaper than what they can be in.

mike gill will claim from her and i don't know how good he does with that move. gill claims out of the racing form and doesn't get scared by the scott lakes, howard wolfendale, dale capuano's and stephanie beatties of the world.

up untill the last 6 months i have never claimed a horse. i have usually ran a horse that i had bred or run horses that i couldn't sell. so i am not a real authority on this subject. what i do know is that with the slot machine tracks these days the purses are worth more than the horses. when you can run a $5000 open horse for a purse of $22,000 in philadelphia park it makes for a whole different game than in the past.

[JWBurnie]

my trainer knows his way around florida. saw the horse in the paddock, he looked good and dropped the slip.

the horse has some pedigree too, he's by stormcat.

I saw that, and he still has his boys. Pick up some "black type" and you may have a stallion prospect.