Debate Round 1

[bigmack]

How do you take that many body blows and remain standing?

Thoughts:

Anyone who said McC was dodging the debate :lol:
Any BO enthusiast who said "I can't wait for the debates" :lol:

[NJ Stinks]

How do you take that many body blows and remain standing?

Thoughts:

Anyone who said McC was dodging the debate :lol:
Any BO enthusiast who said "I can't wait for the debates" :lol:

Good luck with that, bigmack.

Obama was hit but not hurt tonight. And foreign affairs/defense is John at his best.

[mostpost]

How do you take that many body blows and remain standing?

Thoughts:

Anyone who said McC was dodging the debate :lol:
Any BO enthusiast who said "I can't wait for the debates" :lol:

Sorry your TV was broke. You missed a good debate:bang:

[lsbets]

Obama. Did. Okay. He. Thought out. His. Answers..

Given his supposedly unearthly oratory skills, holding his own with someone as thoroughly boring as John McCain can only be seen as a disappointment. I think I might smoke pot for the first time in about 15 years during the next debate, just to make it a little entertaining. I was so bored I actually jumped up and volunteered when my wife said my daughter needed a diaper change.

Of course I'm sure there are some who will disagree and who will feel that Obama the messiah was clearly superior and mesmerizing. To those folks, please send me the name of your dealer, I want to buy from him for the next debate.

[Rookies]

Like I said before it began...

I get a good laugh after everyone weighs in with their opinion about how their candidate performed.

It's the greatest slight of hand of all time.

If McCain wore a pair of Lady Sarah's red panties around his head, the usual suspects on the right would say it was the latest in sartorial splendour.

If Obama was blessed by Reverend Wright before the date, the left would say it was a sign from God !

Get it going... :lol:

Any neutral obsrever would say it was a draw. Obama outpointed McCain early and the reverse was true late. McCain needed the KO here and didn't get it. Obama played a good prevent D, as he is ahead.

He will continue to be after this debate.

[chickenhead]

Agree with both LS and Rookies. A very boring debate, not noteworthy for anything in particular. I can't imagine either of them changed anyone's mind about anything.

[JustRalph]

I was so bored I actually jumped up and volunteered when my wife said my daughter needed a diaper change.

Either way you were up to your elbows in @#$#$@


It was pretty boring, unless you expected McCain to lay down. He didn't. Good for him.


The fact that NJ Stinks didn't come into the thread screaming about what a great job Obama did, tells me McCain did much better than expected.

[ddog]

How do you take that many body blows and remain standing?

Thoughts:

Anyone who said McC was dodging the debate :lol:
Any BO enthusiast who said "I can't wait for the debates" :lol:

depends what they are thowin there macky....

they had a debate?

really, i caught the first 10 minutes, two empty vessels for sure.

[NJ Stinks]

The fact that NJ Stinks didn't come into the thread screaming about what a great job Obama did, tells me McCain did much better than expected.

I'm used to be being screamed at here rather than screaming, JustRalph. :)

[Rookies]

One poll. I think they'll all be about the same...

Early Poll Results Suggest More Uncommitted Voters Saw Obama As Debate Winner

CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

These figures are still preliminary and could change as more respondents complete the survey. But here's what we have so far:

48% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner.

22% thought John McCain won.

38% saw it as a draw.

46% of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight.

68% of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. Forty-one percent think McCain would.

49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq.

55% think McCain would.

We will have a full report on the poll later on. Uncommitted voters are those who don't yet know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidate but may still change their minds.

Early Poll Results Suggest More Uncommitted Voters Saw Obama As Debate Winner - Horserace (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml)

[JustRalph]

38 percent viewing a draw is a victory for McCain..........

[mostpost]

38 percent viewing a draw is a victory for McCain..........

Except that the main subject of the debate was Foreign Policy which is a strong suit for Sen. McCain. If 38 percent saw the debate as a draw, that means they saw Sen Obama as equal to Sen McCain on Foreign Policy. I'm not sure that Sen. McCain's people would be too happy with that result. I'm not even going to mention the 40 percent who felt Sen. Obama won the debate......OOPS. Sorry!!:(

[bigmack]

With all due respect. McCain has been portrayed by the left as a bumbling fool who is old and a heartbeat away from certain death. If anyone can tell me that he didn't mop the floor in his appraisal of issues compared to BO I'd like to hear it.

If it were a holiday gathering, McCain was holding court at the adult table and BO was seated at the kids table. He was pulling stuff straight out of blogville.

Clear winner for me was McC. Any of this Bush/McCain retoric BO tried was applied with a sauce that wouldn't stick to dry wood. Not one blow for BO. If I missed it, let me know.

[NJ Stinks]

Clear winner for me was McC. Any of this Bush/McCain retoric BO tried was applied with a sauce that wouldn't stick to dry wood. Not one blow for BO. If I missed it, let me know.

Two things off the top of my head:

1) Iraq - Obama against it - McCain for it

2) Mccain $300B tax cut for the richest while the country is up to it's eyeballs in debt - pathetic and he didn't try to refute it either

[Indulto]

How do you take that many body blows and remain standing?

Thoughts:

Anyone who said McC was dodging the debate :lol:
Any BO enthusiast who said "I can't wait for the debates" :lol:Unlike lsbets, I wasn't bored for a moment. McCain was far better at doing what he has to than I thought him capable of. He gave the people who weren't critical of the last 8 years the confidence to keep voting Republican.

I doubt that this debate changed anyone's mind so Obama will have do better to win over more of the undecided. McCain's responses seemed more rehearsed. I can understand some here thinking McCain landed more body blows, but just repeating his inexperience mantra was more distracting than effective. Obama is clearly ready for the task.

[Jake]

Both Reagan and Clinton understood how this works, while Gore and Kerry never figured it out. You trying to convince those voters who have yet to commit. It comes down not to issues, but ultimately personal likeability. Who is the easist one to like here? I think in this debate that may have been Obama. McCain's has always been a great debater, but this was as much about body language and eye contact; his answers were strong, but the undercurrent was neither friendly nor inviting. Other than that, on the issues I thought it was basically a tossup. They both played to their bases.

[bigmack]

I can understand some here thinking McCain landed more body blows, but just repeating his inexperience mantra was more distracting than effective. Obama is clearly ready for the task.
Beyond a repetition of his inexperience McC slid in a couple of times that he and his positions are downright dangerous. Not a hint of a come back from what would be considered a very strong left jab followed by a sharp right.

BO should have been all over Mc for portraying him as dangerous.

[bettheoverlay]

Scoring these types of Presidential debates as if they are high school debating teams is missing the point. Of course those who are commited to either candidate will think "their" guy won. It's the people on the fence or leaning one way or the other who are being played to. I don't think debating points scored on issues mean much to them, they want to feel comfortable with their choice. I thought Obama did better in than regard, more congenial, looking at his opponet, calling him John. McCain often looked petulant, but overall he did better than I expected given the erratic nature of his campaign. Actually given the dire state most non-Republicans perceive their country to be in, you would think any Democrat would be far ahead in the polls. These voters want change, and I think Obama's job herein is to get white undecided voters comfortable with the idea of voting for a black man.

[dav4463]

Polls say Obama won. Didn't the polls say Kerry won every time too?

[hcap]

One poll. I think they'll all be about the same...

Early Poll Results Suggest More Uncommitted Voters Saw Obama As Debate Winner

CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

These figures are still preliminary and could change as more respondents complete the survey. But here's what we have so far:

48% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner.

22% thought John McCain won.

38% saw it as a draw.

46% of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight.

68% of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. Forty-one percent think McCain would.

49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq.

55% think McCain would.

We will have a full report on the poll later on. Uncommitted voters are those who don't yet know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidate but may still change their minds.

Early Poll Results Suggest More Uncommitted Voters Saw Obama As Debate Winner - Horserace (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml)

To my surprise McSame did better on issues than I expected. BUT, and here is the BIG BUT, came across as mean spirited. His remark about not being known as "Mr. Congeniality" in the senate, may come back to haunt him. Could be others noticed this as well?

Another poll from CNN

Here's the CNN poll, conducted among debate-watchers:

Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the debate -- Barack Obama or John McCain?
Obama 51%
McCain 38%

Did _______ do a better or worse job than you expected?
Obama: Better 57%, Worse 20%, Same 23%
McCain: Better 60%, Worse 20%, Same 18%

Next, regardless of which presidential candidate you support, please tell me if you think Barack Obama or John McCain would better handle each of the following issues:

• The war in Iraq: Obama 52%, McCain 47%

• Terrorism: McCain 49%, Obama 45%

• The economy: Obama 58%, McCain 37%

• The current financial crisis: Obama 54%, McCain 36%

Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described Barack Obama or John McCain during tonight's debate:

• Was more intelligent: Obama 55%, McCain 30%

• Expressed his views more clearly: Obama 53%, McCain 36%

• Spent more time attacking his opponent: McCain 60%, Obama 23%
.................................................. ..................................................

And a question for all you Palin afficiandos

Where was she after the debate? Biden commented. Usually the VP pick is around to muck it up. Not Palin.

[hcap]

Surprise, Surprise.

Luntz goes for Obama

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/27/2530/94689/36/612200

[HUSKER55]

The media is so slanted against McCain that I really don't care what the polls say. To call the media journalists is a gross misnomer. The hotshot media thinks the public will swallow the leader via polls, (herd mentality), and I don't think that is going to happen. There are way too many people who don't trust the media and therefore McCain came out a huge winner because of the tainted polls.

Bidden is a fool and his mouth proves it and Obama has no control of him and again his mouth proves it. Bidden still talks.

Sarah is doing what Sarah is supposed to be doing. The debate was about McCain and McCain can take care of himself.

Obama needed a real show and didn't do it. He talks good, but what would you expect from a Harvard lawyer. Really, he talks good.

Nobody, is going to let him live down "God Damn America" and his wife's mouth, "I not proud to be American". You wait till the last week before the election.

Obama needed a punch and he didn't get the job done. His energy policy is lame, National Security was lame and his economic policy was lame. Even random statements had no punch.

The only thing in favor of both candidates is that the current money crisis has got everybody so mad, on both sides, that I think any answer would not have made any difference.

Either you want these corporations to go under with no bail out or you want the bail out but don't like the price tag.

McCain was the winner. Obama needed to deliver and he failed.


husker55

:)

[oddsmaven]

For McCain I'll say he wasn't a disaster considering his positions are not easy to defend (unless you like the obscenely wealthy who don't need it to continue getting help from him, and you've enjoyed an incredibly costly, poorly planned war).

But MCain came across as petulant and unstateman-like...his mantra was to repeat to Obama "you don't understand", which was jarring to hear :eek: directed from a mediocre intellect to a solid one...Obama was quick to correct McCain :liar: each time the "maverick" mischaracterized his position...kind of makes it tough when you blatantly distort things and get called on it, so no wonder he looked peeved.

[Rookies]

McCain was the winner. Obama needed to deliver and he failed.

This is completely incorrect. In a debate, the person in the lead wishes to (at least) retain his position. Only the blind rheteorical posturings from neocons would believe that didn't take place last night.

I had thought the results were a wash. Apparently, the public disgarees with me. THEY say Obama looked better, more presidential and in contrast to McCain, was more reasonable/ less petulant. This is very bad news for the McCain campaign, who now have to think whether they should try an all out attack during the remaining debates (where Obama has the background advantage), risking that likeability/ presidential factor.

As of now, Obama retains his lead and should increase it.

[Boris]

I don't think that word has ever been posted on this board, and now twice in the same thread. Gravitas V2.0?

[barn32]

Obama won by not losing.

[Rookies]

For the next one, here are a few rules:

Debate Drinking Game
Take a drink:

Every time someone says "Main Street"

Every time someones call the other person by their first name

Every time some says the word "fundamental"

Every time some says the word "change"

Every time the phrase "dependence on foreign oil" is spoken

:)

[TrifectaMike]

Two things off the top of my head:

1) Iraq - Obama against it - McCain for it

2) Mccain $300B tax cut for the richest while the country is up to it's eyeballs in debt - pathetic and he didn't try to refute it either

Enlighten me, When and where did Obama cast his vote against the Iraq War?

Mike

[Fwizard]

My Unbiased view was that Obama won by a nose .....He broke early as he imprressed me in the first few minutes by looking at the camera instead of the moderator when answering the first question...McCain came back when I think Obama stumbled several times over "what would he have to put off because of the financial bailout plan?" Obama had a chance to answer that one several times by dodged it....so Obama by a neck this round...

[Marshall Bennett]

Obama's high school coach was in the front row !! :p

[Tom]

I had the distinct impression O'Bama had no clue what he was saying. Articulate answers, no clue what they meant. Memorized.

Did the debate live up to the hype?
You be the judge.

[highnote]

My impression of McCain from watching last night's debate is that he was like a boiling pot of water with a lid on it ready to erupt at any moment. He seemed to get closer to boiling over as the debate progressed. I can see why he has a reputation for having a temper.

Obama appeared to be annoyed at one point, but it's hard to tell. He has a good poker face. His intellectualness can come across as condescending. That will turn off a lot of voters.

Both candidates did a better job answering the questions than I anticipated. But neither changed my mind about who I'm going to vote for.

[Mag]

Obama won easily. McCain couldn't even look him in the eye. At least Obama lives in the current century, and his vision isn't as narrow and limited.

[bigmack]

L1rZBmk0DYU

[Boats]

Screw the polls. Look at the actual betting from my english book. I've been tracking them lately.


Obama McCain
9/14 -139 + 110
9/17 -149 + 120
9/18 -175 +138
9/26 -200 +160
9/27 -222 + 175

A pretty good bump right after the debate.

[Light]

How many times did Obama tell McCain "you're right"? And how many times did McCain tell Obama "you're wrong". I lost count.This is the first time I realized how naive Obama is on some things. He needs to get blacker and stop being so polite. That's what cost Kerry. Kerry only understood that point after it was too late.

[bigmack]

How many times did Obama tell McCain "you're right"? And how many times did McCain tell Obama "you're wrong". I lost count.This is the first time I realized how naive Obama is on some things. He needs to get blacker and stop being so polite. That's what cost Kerry. Kerry only understood that point after it was too late.
Illuminating points, Lightaroo. He's gotta know how to throw punches. The book on him is that Michelle wears the slacks around his crib. After that performance, I believe it.

Speaking of naive, Palin in a debate could be an absolute mess.

[highnote]

Screw the polls. Look at the actual betting from my english book. I've been tracking them lately.


Obama McCain
9/14 -139 + 110
9/17 -149 + 120
9/18 -175 +138
9/26 -200 +160
9/27 -222 + 175

A pretty good bump right after the debate.


I'm not familiar with this notation. How do you read those numbers?

Does -222 mean Obama is out of favor with the bettors and +175 means that more bettors think McCain will win?

[Rookies]

I'm not familiar with this notation. How do you read those numbers?

Does -222 mean Obama is out of favor with the bettors and +175 means that more bettors think McCain will win?

It means Obama is the HUGE chalk at 1-2 !

Racebook has it perfectly. You put -222 to win 100 on Obama or 100 to win 175 with John Boy.

[RaceBookJoe]

I'm not familiar with this notation. How do you read those numbers?

Does -222 mean Obama is out of favor with the bettors and +175 means that more bettors think McCain will win?

i believe it means that Obama is the favorite. Obama at -222 and McCain at +175 means that if you bet Obama you have to put up $222 to win $100 , where a bet on McCain you bet $100 to win $175. I dont think i have it exact, but it is something like that. rbj

[highnote]

Thanks for the explanation, Guys.

However, I'm not sure I can trust the opinion of bettors... they bet that Gore would win the 2000 election.

Oh wait... they were right -- sort of :D

[Tom]

How many times did Obama tell McCain "you're right"? And how many times did McCain tell Obama "you're wrong". I lost count.This is the first time I realized how naive Obama is on some things. He needs to get blacker and stop being so polite. That's what cost Kerry. Kerry only understood that point after it was too late.

Kerry wasn't black enough?
O'Bama, Been there, done that.
8M-kD0QdRJk&feature=rec-fresh

[Boats]

I'm not familiar with this notation. How do you read those numbers?

Does -222 mean Obama is out of favor with the bettors and +175 means that more bettors think McCain will win?

These are the numbers used in sports betting.
-222 mean that you have to bet $222 to win $100.
+175 means you win $175 for every $100 bet.

-222 is 9/20
+175 is 7/4
so Obama is less than 1/2

[banacek]

Here's a link for the odds at a bunch of betting exchanges in one easy to read chart.

http://odds.bestbetting.com/specials/politics/usa/presidential-elections-2008/president

Some interesting odds floating around these exchanges. Palin being withdrawn is down from 15-1 to about 11-1 today, but Biden isn't far behind at 16-1.

[Rookies]

This is a gambling site, right ? :lol:

[Light]

Kerry wasn't black enough?
O'Bama, Been there, done that.
8M-kD0QdRJk&feature=rec-fresh

That's what I'm talking about,but Obama has distanced himself from his preacher. He's also distanced himself from the "liberal" issues he once supported. Oreo cookie.

So is Sarah Palin. Her first speech in the convention was a reflection of who she is. Now she's on a leash and lost her kick.

[bigmack]

That's what I'm talking about,but Obama has distanced himself from his preacher. He's also distanced himself from the "liberal" issues he once supported. Oreo cookie.
Speaking of which, I still get a kick out of this story from '05.

Black Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican.

Such attacks against the first black man to win a statewide election in Maryland include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an "Uncle Tom" and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log.

Irony!

Wife to candidate: Honey, how was your day?
Candidate: How was my day? I was pelted with Oreo cookies. THAT'S HOW MY DAY WAS! :lol:

[Rookies]

Letterman's Top 10

10. Sometimes Sarah calls John McCain “Grandpa.”

9. She stole that sexy librarian look from me.

8. Recently passed legislation to build a bridge to Funkytown.

7. Does great impressions of Tina Fey.

6. Favorite meal: moose nuggets and beaver jerky.

5. Working on “Knight Rider” spinoff about a talking snowmobile.

4. Favorite book? “Late Show Fun Facts” -– available at fine stores everywhere.

3. Once spent a week in the hospital after attempting to put lipstick on a pit bull.

2. To improve her foreign policy experience, she recently went to the International House of Pancakes.

1. Only person I know who’s not afraid to go hunting with Dick Cheney. :lol:

[JustRalph]

Letterman's Top 10

10. Sometimes Sarah calls John McCain “Grandpa.”

9. She stole that sexy librarian look from me.

8. Recently passed legislation to build a bridge to Funkytown.

7. Does great impressions of Tina Fey.

6. Favorite meal: moose nuggets and beaver jerky.

5. Working on “Knight Rider” spinoff about a talking snowmobile.

4. Favorite book? “Late Show Fun Facts” -– available at fine stores everywhere.

3. Once spent a week in the hospital after attempting to put lipstick on a pit bull.

2. To improve her foreign policy experience, she recently went to the International House of Pancakes.

1. Only person I know who’s not afraid to go hunting with Dick Cheney. :lol:

This man gets 20 million a year to come up with shit............

and he makes jokes about Wall Street ripping people off? He might as well be pointing a gun at Les Moonves............ :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[ElKabong]

"Jim, I've got a bracelet, too".

B Hussein sounded like a 2 yr old at a friends birthday party and was envious of one of the presents.

[JustRalph]

I don't like either one of them talking about their bracelets. It is stupid.

They need to stop trying to out sentimental each other and act like adults.

[ElKabong]

Then you aren't going to like debates # 2 and 3 either. What you see is what we get. Those are the choices, that is their substance.

[banacek]

This man gets 20 million a year to come up with shit............


actually 31.5 mil

[Rookies]

I don't like either one of them talking about their bracelets. It is stupid.

They need to stop trying to out sentimental each other and act like adults.

EXACTLY ! ( May be one of the few things we'll ever agree on ) ;)

Obama was fully prepared for that card being played, but it's so much trite b.s. Cut the nonsense trying to one up with the "Personals" and get down to business.

[JustRalph]

[b]
EXACTLY ! ( May be one of the few things we'll ever agree on ) ;)

Ok, I am not unreasonable, just passionate about what I believe.

Glad we can agree on something............... :ThmbUp:

[Rookies]

I am an odd mix of hardnosed beliefs , Ralph.

For example:
1) I strongly believe in the death penalty for certain heinous crimes and subject to DNA corroboration.
2) I believe in strong regulatory enforcement to ensure a proper balance in society between biz and the public.
3) I do not favour abortion, but on the other hand, I do believe that the Right to Life movement is misnamed. It really is the Right to the Life of the fetus from -9 months to 0. Then, it says, once you've had the baby... you're on your own ! No societal assistance ( this is lengthy and cannot be outlined in a bullet). Idiotic !
4) I am strongly in favour of state medicare. I could give a damn what it's called. If it's "socialism"- great. Been in existence almost 50 years here and even the most conservative politician doesn't dare F with it- ever.

Those are a few, although "some of my closest friends " are hard core conservatives. My immediate neighbour had a Bush- Cheney sticker last time, much to the dismay of my neighbourhood, which is sizably left wing. :D But, we are very close friends. I've never tried to spend time associating with people that agree with you all the time.

BORING !

enough for now...

[falconridge]

Letterman's Top 10
:sleeping:

[TEJAS KIDD]

[QUOTE=bettheoverlay] I thought Obama did better in than regard, more congenial, looking at his opponet, calling him John. QUOTE]

He called him JIM once and TOM on another occasion.

[bigmack]

:sleeping:
Can ya believe this coming out of professional writers?

Most "comedy" these days leaves me asking: Who wrote this crap?

[Hank]

The old war horse showed he can stick to a game plan,He carried out the plan well but came across somewhat off -putting personally.Had he presented himself a little better he could have scored big.Barry dodged a bullet here.

[mostpost]

[QUOTE=bettheoverlay] I thought Obama did better in than regard, more congenial, looking at his opponet, calling him John. QUOTE]

He called him JIM once and TOM on another occasion.

"Jim" was Jim Lehrer, the moderator. And when he said "Tom" he was obviously talking to our Tom from Finger Lakes.

[hcap]

Another poll for Obama.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-28-debate-poll_N.htm


'A majority of debate watchers in a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Saturday picked Obama over Republican John McCain when asked which candidate offered the best proposals to solve the country's problems, 52%-35%. They said Obama did better overall in the debate than McCain, 46%-34%.
'

Seems unanimous.
Gee guys, how did Obama do so well without a teleprompter?
Maybe he cheated by being good?

[bigmack]

How many times did Obama tell McCain "you're right"? And how many times did McCain tell Obama "you're wrong". I lost count.This is the first time I realized how naive Obama is on some things. He needs to get blacker and stop being so polite. That's what cost Kerry. Kerry only understood that point after it was too late.
Boy. BO, sure is a tough guy out on the campaign trail. Catchy little snips about MickeyC over the weekend. Darn shame he doesn't do that in a debate. He'd fit right in on the internet. As a troll.

Another poll for Obama.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-28-debate-poll_N.htm

Keep 'em comin, Doctor. We're on pins & needles here.

Hey, you're good at these kinda things. Could you look up what the polls showed Sept 28th of 04 & 00?

[hcap]

Keep 'em comin, Doctor. We're on pins & needles here.

Hey, you're good at these kinda things. Could you look up what the polls showed Sept 28th of 04 & 00?Youse guys were jumping up and down after the Palin convention bounce. Quoting polls THEN didn't seem so "oh my goodness polls sure are silly and sooooooo snapshot like"

I'm more interested what they'll show in the days following Thursdays' VP debate. You should be as well. Hey maybe after Thursday she'll bounce again? :rolleyes: Don'tcha think?

[Tom]

hcap, our quoting the polls then was mocking you out. And, as you've just shown in your last post, they mean nothing....read my lips...NOTHING until election day.Yet here you are, like a baby who just discovered his blinky all hot aothered.......what a patheric life your lead.

[Secretariat]

I was driving back from out of town and heard the debate on the radio. Then watched it after taping it.

Was interesting. Listening on the radio I thought McCain had scored some points and may have won the debate. When I watched it, however, McCain looked dreadful. I mean unbeleivably stiff, petulant, and didn't even look once at Obama during questions. He seemed angry. I didn't udnerstand his demeanor, but it really tipped the debate toward Obama. Have there been any radio polls versus TV polls? I know Nixon was supposed to have beaten Kennedy in 60 on radio but lost in TV. This may have been the same.

One thing I did notice was when Obama scored a good point, McCain just ignored it or changed the subject. For example, when Obama mentioned McCain's plan to tax health care benefits, he didn't answer, just ignored it. Same when Obama talked about the huge tax cuts for the wealthy at a time we wre bailing out Wall St. I think Obama asserted something like a 700,000 tax cut for some wealthy people.

However, I think polls should NOT go up until all fact checking has been posted. For example, McCain's assertion that Eisenhower supposed wrote a lotter to resign after Normandy invasion. Sounded like a good story, but fact checking poved it to be untrue. Also, apparently Obama's quote on Kissinger was true and on tape. McCain's outrage about the remark was just that. He needs to talk to Henry, not Obama. These fact checks were reported by the AP after the debate was sorted out.

I think this played overall well for Obama. This was the debate McCain should have been his strongest. Obama held his own as polls have revealed. Foreign policy. In all fairness I think McCain would have done better without the financial crisis, and if all heard it on radio. It forced McCain to deal with the financial crisis as a national security issues. Hewas unprepared for that, and it consumed a good 1/3rd of the debate.

I think good talking points for McCain was:

1. Iraq surge and Obama's failure to admit it is successful
2. Meeting with Iran's president.
3. He'll cut earmarks.
3. His service and experience.

However, I think they were trumped by these Obama's talking points.

1. Republicans have been arguing for deregulation for decades and big advocates of trickle down. Obviously, it hasn't worked as is evident by the financial crisis.

2. Bush and McCain are fixated on Iraq, and have taken their eye off Afghanistan and the real leaders of 911, Bin Laden.

3. Obama will imrpve relations with our allies and focus on diplomancy first rather than pre-emptive attacks.

4. Obama will do attempt to deal with middle class pain such as a health plan that can cover everyone, ANd a larger tax cut for middle class familes than McCain offers.

Frankly, I've said for the last year that whoever wins will have little chance of dealing with this except dealing with huge itnerest on the debt, and most likely the party of the next President will get the blame which is why I was initially going to vote McCain. However, when he choose a far right extremist ill prepared nutcase(as she's shown in her only two actual interviews - Hannity doesn't cout because that was an infomercial), considering McCain's age I just could not go that far.

[hcap]

Maybe in the spirit of fairness guys, Palin should be allowed to use a teleprompter and Biden not? I could see that as sort of an even-steven approach. And now that I am thinking about it, Henry Kissinger her "foreign policy debate coach", and Joe "turncoat" Lieberman, Grandpas' foreign policy adviser-ya know the one that informed Grandpa about differences between Sunnis and Shia- to stand on either side of Sarah and slip her crib sheets?

Fair is fair.

Tom you thought at the time of the convention, McSame/Palin was a lock.
You gentlemen were salivating and orgasmic about the reborn repug party. And claimed all sorta of polling revelations. Ya know about polls showing democratic women fleeing the dems-now that Hillary was gone -crossing party lines-denying all the issues that women supported-and magically transformed into gun totting, bear hunting-fishing boat owning REPUGLICANS.

Grow up. You guys are trailing badly, and are acting childish. And now some how in your imaginary world polls no longer count. It seems there is a trickle down your leg and your stiff upper lip is quivering. Gloating is over. Reality is setting in. :lol:

[hcap]

The growing list of conservatives that have given up on Sarah.

George Will, David Frum, Rod Dreher, Kathleen Parker, Ross Douthat, David Brooks, and even Charles Krauthammer.

[hcap]

Looks like McSame is having a Sarah problem too.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/28/mccain-retracts-palins-pakistan-comments/

" Sen. John McCain retracted Sarah Palin's stance on Pakistan Sunday morning, after the Alaska governor appeared to back Sen. Barack Obama's support for unilateral strikes inside Pakistan against terrorists

"She would not…she understands and has stated repeatedly that we're not going to do anything except in America's national security interest," McCain told ABC's George Stephanopoulos of Palin. "In all due respect, people going around and… sticking a microphone while conversations are being held, and then all of a sudden that's—that's a person's position… This is a free country, but I don't think most Americans think that that's a definitve policy statement made by Governor Palin."

Saturday night, while on a stop for cheesesteaks in South Philadelphia, Palin was questioned by a Temple graduate student about whether the U.S. should cross the border from Afghanistan into Pakistan.

"If that's what we have to do stop the terrorists from coming any further in, absolutely, we should," Palin said.

[bigmack]

Youse guys were jumping up and down after the Palin convention bounce. Quoting polls THEN didn't seem so "oh my goodness polls sure are silly and sooooooo snapshot like"
Another puerile vantage. Thanks.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/63.jpg

[Rookies]

Nobody expects Palin to be a genius on foreign policy or on several other issues. She is, what she is; an ordinary woman who has accomplished a few interesting things in her home state. Those who support the conservative Republican cause are behind her because of her social conservative positions.

McCain rolled the dice and for a while he was winning a few passes. It might be though, that when the heat is on for Lady Sarah in the next few days, he may crap out. Doesn't diminish her in my eyes, but nor does it make her the type of person I'd vote for in a V.P. candidate. She certainly has some personality and charm. ( More "hot" charm to me.. ;) )

I just think the U.S. deserves better in a leader. She is young however, and will have future opportunities once her experiences have been broadened.

[Tom]

I just think the U.S. deserves better in a leader. She is young however, and will have future opportunities once her experiences have been broadened.

Serioulsy, do you think Obama, McCain, or Biden are any more qualified than she is? None of them are - all are jokes, but of the four, at least she might be able to grow into it....the other three are dead stiffs going nowhere but down and fast.

[dav4463]

Sarah Palin has taken the punches of the media who led an all out assault against her and her family attempting to show her in a bad light. It was like a witch hunt and it still continues. She will fight through it because she's tough. I hope the majority of Americans can see what the media is trying to do to her.

Can you imagine if she would have been the one to say that FDR was president during the stock market crash? She would have been called stupid, ignorant, poorly educated, unfit to be VP, etc, etc....but since Biden said it......free pass! Just like anything Obama does or says wrong.....free pass from the media!

[ElKabong]

Sarah Palin has taken the punches of the media who led an all out assault against her and her family attempting to show her in a bad light. It was like a witch hunt and it still continues. She will fight through it because she's tough. I hope the majority of Americans can see what the media is trying to do to her.


Taken punches, indeed. The CBC finally came out with an official apology for the hack job done on her by a bit-part so called journalist.


http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=845234

"Mallick's column is a classic piece of political invective. It is viciously personal, grossly hyperbolic and intensely partisan. And because it is all those things, this column should not have appeared on the CBCNews.ca site."
-SNIP

[barn32]

Serioulsy, do you think Obama, McCain, or Biden are any more qualified than she is? None of them are - all are jokes, but of the four, at least she might be able to grow into it....the other three are dead stiffs going nowhere but down and fast.Of course McCain and Biden are more qualified. Obviously.

[bigmack]

Of course McCain and Biden are more qualified. Obviously.
If we can assume that people are willing to look past qualifications, as has been asked of both sides now (cue Joni Mitchell), can we assume that people are voting for a person as an expression of their want of change and be falling into the arms of the Same Old x2 or even worse?

Anyone of us has faced a point where we longed for change in something. Some of those times may have been desperate. Like now.

I guess I have a tough time understanding the simple "Things bad - Vote for Other Party" mentality.

I know this. Next guy better have balls of steel.

[Rookies]

I know this. Next guy better have balls of steel.

It's more than than that- way more. Consider this point. Canada will have conducted an ENTIRE federal election, involving selecting candidates for the various parties, campaigning and voting with a final result BEFORE the 3rd. Presidential debate has taken place. FYI, the minimum number of days allotted by law is 36 and the maximum occurred in the 1926 election- 74 days.

To me, THAT is the point. Balls of steel ? No, America wants to make sure its Presidential candidates have gone through the political equivalent of Stalingrad ! No wonder they are crazy by the end of almost 2 years of constant campaigning through the Roman gauntlet. It does toughen them, unlike somebody like Palin who is just getting a small taste.

But what it must also do, (leaving aside the 100s of millions you need to run your damn campaign), is ensure that only a very, very few persons in their right mind would possibly try. Especially, because in today's digi world if I say that: " Tom ( for example;) ) is a small town, right wing sycophant, rube and an arse-hole " on line, those words and EVERY word I've ever uttered publicly in voice/ print form are fodder for the campaign. And, I MIGHT last one hour before they are broadcast throughout the world. Shite, guys like Ralph will have the video clip in 30 minutes and from several angles.

You get the point. Who needs it ? That's why, while we all might be looking for perfection in our candidates, we won't get it. Other than Mother Teresa and JC, the 24-7, day to day battering by the media and everyone else discourages people. One of the improvements might be to cut the time allotted significantly. Just a thought.

[Sailwolf]

38 percent viewing a draw is a victory for McCain..........

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-poll29-2008sep29,0,57477.story

[Sailwolf]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hjGaAjQoUCE3VQ4N3M852LEdOVtwD9304JE80

[JustRalph]

old news. already discussed