Top Five Most Influential Handicapping Books

[Cangamble]

I'm not necessarily talking about the best handicapping books out there, but the ones that you may have taken one or two or a few ideas from, and still use these ideas a lot in your handicapping methods today.

Here is my list:
1. Winning at the Races
2. My $50,000 Year At the Races
3. Thoroughbred Cycles
4. Speed To Spare
5. Beyer On Speed

[RaceBookJoe]

Here are mine :

1. Ainslie's Complete Guide
2. Handicapping to Win by Scott Flohr
3. Betting Thorougbreds (sp?) by Davidowitz
4. Beyer on Speed by Andy Beyer
5. Modern Pace Handicapping by Tom Brohamer

I still thumb through them from time to time. The Scott Flohr book was one of the first books I read, thats why it is influential to me. I left out "PIcking Winners", because I was already making speed figures before that book came out, but "Beyer on Speed" meant more to me...maybe because of the section on turf racing...which at that time was my weak point. I still use a nugget or 2 from all 5 of the above books though. rbj

[Overlay]

Winning at the Races (Quirin)
Modern Impact Values (Nunamaker)
Commonsense Betting (Mitchell)

I found the above titles useful because they helped me take information on handicapping and wagering that was presented in other excellent references that were primarily theoretical or qualitative, and apply quantitative values and weights to it.

If I have to add two more to round out the list to five, I guess I'd go with Ainslie's Complete Guide to Thoroughbred Racing (which introduced me to racing), and Beyer's Picking Winners (for a basic background in speed handicapping).

[cnollfan]

I am going to limit my answer to my favorite book per author. In cronological order:

1. Smart Handicapping Made Easy by William Bauman
This dates to the stone ages of handicapping literature, i.e. pre-Ainslie, pre-Beyer. I first read this book as a young teenager, and it influences me to this day in that it taught me not to take a poor performance at face value, but to always look at the circumstances that led to that performance, and to be alert when those circumstances change.

2. Picking Winners by Andrew Beyer
The book that changed the game. It's easy to forget how revolutionary it was at the time, not only for its handicapping philosophy, but also for its writing. Lost in the controversy of celebrity is the fact that Beyer is a writer of great clarity.

3. Horse Racing Logic by Glendon Jones
An under-the-radar gem jam-packed with useful ideas that I never tire of reading over and over.

4. Thoroughbred Cycles by Mark Cramer
Cramer is one of the few handicapping authors who truly believes, as I do, that a jockey switch from Joy Scott to Gary Stevens can be a negative. Much of my current handicapping philosophy is an expansion of the themes in this book.

5. multi-way tie with many of the usual suspects and some oddballs too.

[The Judge]

1.) Modern Pace Handicapping 2.) Pace Makes the Race 3.) Handicapping Magic 4.) Money Secrets At The Race Track 5.) Handicappers Condition Book

to keep at 5 had to leave off Mitchell, Cramer, Scott , The Hat, Beyer and Ragozin.

[RichieP]

1) "Matchup2" - Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw
The Mind's Eye

2) "Calibration Handicapping" - Jim LeHane
Valuation

3) "Handicapping Magic" - Michael Pizzolla
Soft Focus

4) "Pace Makes the Race" - Hambleton,Schmidt,Pizzolla
Step by Step

5) "Thoroughbred Cycles" - Marc Cramer
Amazing

[Dave Schwartz]

Winning at The Races
Percentages and Probabilitities
Modern Pace Handicapping

[PaceAdvantage]

1) Modern Pace Handicapping

2) More Basic Betting

3) My $50,000 Year At the Races

4) Pace Makes the Race

5) Dr. Z's Beat the Racetrack

Honorable Mentions: The Best of Thoroughbred Handicapping & Investing at the Racetrack

[timtam]

I have no problem with Top 5 or Top 10 Lists of various topics but

I find it quite interesting that many of the same books keep appearing on

these lists. My question is if you don't put on Ainsle or Beyer on your list

are you afraid some of your peers will feel lesser of you as a handicapper.

I also am suprised that there aren't many off the wall type books at least

one should make somebodys list. I read a book called MR Trifecta several

years ago and to this day I will check various points from his book.

If I put Mr Trifecta on a top 5 list I'm sure someone will say this guy is a fool.

I just think putting out top 5 or 10 lists on handicapping is very trite and

it reminds me of the time they were doing the Handicapping Expo and the

same names kept showing up hashing and rehashing the same old gobblyde

gook that still makes most players losers and the authors driving cabs,

turning into preachers, or laying in gutters for hours. I'm almost positive

someone withheld a book or method because it may have come from RPM

instead of Andy Beyer. If you want to give a list give us a REAL one not

what you think your peers are going to expect you to include.

[MarquisMark]

I read a book called MR Trifecta several
years ago and to this day I will check various points from his book.
If I put Mr Trifecta on a top 5 list I'm sure someone will say this guy is a fool.

Who cares if someone says he's a fool. If the stuff Mr. Trifecta has written helps you to win, then let everyone say what they want to. There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but the view is the same.

[MarquisMark]

Here are the books from which I have parsed various nuggets of wisdom in the ongoing quest to grow my equine IQ:

1. Ainslie's Complete Guide to T-bred Racing
2. Picking Winners
3. Beyer on Speed
4. Handicapper's Condition Book
5. Handicapping 101


Modern Pace Handicapping is the next one I'm going to tackle as it seems that this has helped many of the players I've talked to gain an edge.

[ryesteve]

When I started to think about which books are influencing the way I'm playing now, I came to realize the answer is "none of them". I'm not aware of any books that address db handicapping and data mining that are applicable to the current generation of handicapping software. Is this an opportunity for an enterprising author, or would the audience be far too small to make it worthwhile?

[Cangamble]

When I started to think about which books are influencing the way I'm playing now, I came to realize the answer is "none of them". I'm not aware of any books that address db handicapping and data mining that are applicable to the current generation of handicapping software. Is this an opportunity for an enterprising author, or would the audience be far too small to make it worthwhile?
Do you not tailor your program with specific angles that you may have found in a book or two?

[Cangamble]

Timtam, I certainly wasn't influenced by peer pressure here. If you put down Mr. Triactor, I don't think anyone here would giggle. They might want to look up the book on the internet, like I did for a few titles I saw here that I didn't recognize.
Personally, I didn't like Ainslee because I always felt he was too much of a chalker.

[cmoore]

To tell you the truth..I can't tell you one book that has really helped me in my handicapping. Mostly for me its' been trial and error..Reading pps, watching races and years of losing. Everyone has to lose money in this game before ever winning consistenly. Am I a pro. Far from it. My handicapping is sound but my money mangement is suspect at times. It took years to find my bread and butter. Maiden races are my favorite type. Especially 2 year old first time starters. I never was a fan of the claiming game and conditions of a race. Especially the cheap races. You don't even know if the horse is sound or not. Ninety nine percent of all first time starters are sound. No guessing there. There's no conditions. Its get out of the gate and go. You learn the sires, and pinpoint the ones that are meant for that distance or surface and you got a huge advantage over the public..HUGE ADVANTAGE!!!

[DanG]

Assuming they survive in this analogy:

If you take a human new born and place them with a pack of wolves they will take on wolf characteristics / behavior and often a physical likeness.

====================

A) If you take a new-born horseplayer and give them the leading (in sales) handicapping literature available; most will develop along a path similar to those who have read before them.

B) Theoretical experiment: Person of high intellect who has zero horse racing experience is given handicapping software and told nothing about the fundamentals of handicapping. Then they are given a crash course in market philosophy and investing from day trading experts.

My money after a year’s time is on player “B” to have more in their pocket then player “A”.

Having said that…The Mount Rushmore of racing literature are Ainslie, Beyer, Brohamer, Davidowitz, Sartin with Ken Massa currently taking the torch handed to him and doing phenomenal things imo.

[ryesteve]

Do you not tailor your program with specific angles that you may have found in a book or two?At the moment, no. For a time, I investigated spot plays of the sort found in Cramer's books, but they simply didn't hold up. I've also spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to use it in a track profiling approach, a la Brohamer, but I can't get that to work either. Everything I use now is based on analysis and discovering what works, within the parameters of the factors generated by the software.

[bettheoverlay]

Ainslie"s The Handicappers Handbook by far had the most influence on me. I loved his intuitive, comprehensive approach. Nowadays I use some great software (JCapper) and a large database, but I still choose a couple of races a day where I throw out the data and handicap the race the old-fashioned way.

[RaceBookJoe]

I gave my top 5 in post #2, but the more I think about it I want to give my "underground" top 5. These are lesser known, maybe maybe not, but really influenced me in my early days :

1. "Watch Your Speculation" by Lou Holloway
2. "The Talking Tote " by Lou Holloway
3. "Smart Handicapping Made Easy " by William Bauman
4. "Handicapping to Win" by Herbert Stone
5. "Racing Maxims and Method of Pittsburgh Phil " editor was Edward Cole

The most recent of the above was written in the 60's , so take them for what they are...but plenty of knowledge in these books casn be adapted for todays game. Gold is where you find it. rbj

[Dan Montilion]

Class Of the Field. Quinn
The Winning Horseplayer. Beyer
Thoroughbred Cycles. Cramer
Betting Thoroughbreds. Davidowitz
Thoroughbred Handicapping State Of The Art. Quirin

Not a book but Meadow's Racing Monthly made many positive impressions on my game.

[njcurveball]

Beyer on Speed spawned a generation of handicappers making their own figures.

Dr. Z's book spawned a generation of handicappers watching the place and show pools for overlays.

Both of these books have influenced the game greatly.

I know most here will laugh, but the much maligned Sartin "yellow" manual also influenced a generation.

I have to add at least one Ainslie book here, his Complete Guide, but he probably should have two, three, or perhaps even four.

For a fifth book, although not as widely sold, Mark cramer's "The Odds on your side", was required reading for many line makers 20 years or so ago and is still relavant today.

The Quirin book would be my choice for a 6th, his tables and logical approach were "food" for a generation of computer handicappers.

[DeanT]

I agree wholeheartedly that Winning at the Races was the book of a generation. "Ainslies Big Win" was a neat concept, but Quirin actually placed ROI and IV's to it. Brilliant stuff.

Dr Z spawned a whole generation of pool players - an angle rarely discussed up until that time.

I guess the chronology for me would be:

Ainslie - answered what handicapping is
Beyer - answered how to pick winners with figures
Quirin - Measuring your handicapping and finding out if it actually works
Dr Z - playing the board to find your handicapping pool overlays
Cramer - Making an odds line and related the fact to millions that picking winners is useless if they are not good odds

[DeanT]

My money after a year’s time is on player “B” to have more in their pocket then player “A”.

Mine too. I don't think it would even be close.

[ldiatone]

along with MPH, Mitchells, and Meadows and the others, the one that started me was OVERLAY OVERYLAY by Heller. nice starter book for me.
"commonsene betting" by Mitchell is # :1a:

[zerosky]

List subject to change..

Braddock's Complete Guide to Horse Race Selection & Betting
Ainslie's Complete Guide to Throughbred Racing
The Art & Science of Racehorse Training - Bill Marshall
Counter Attack- published by Raceform
Insider's Guide to Horseracing - T.A. Landers

[acorn54]

no book i read on handicapping ever helped me become a winning player
like ryesteve said handicapping angles that i tested against my database don't hold up
i must say that handicapping books did give me alot of food for dreaming about becoming a winning horse bettor, maybe that is all they are good for.

[cnollfan]

no book i read on handicapping ever helped me become a winning player
like ryesteve said handicapping angles that i tested against my database don't hold up
i must say that handicapping books did give me alot of food for dreaming about becoming a winning horse bettor, maybe that is all they are good for.

Picking Winners played a large part in helping me become a winning player for 15 years until speed figures became the dominant factor in determining the odds. It's taken me another 15 years of floundering to create an alternative approach.

[grahors]

Calibration Handicapping- Jim Lehane
Pace and Composite Handicapping- Ray Taulbot
How Will Your Horse Run Today- Wm Scott
Modern Pace Handicapping
Forms Points- Hambleton

[Bill Cullen]

What made Ainslie potentially dangerous was that he was such a good writer. Holding in abeyance the question of whether his approach to handicapping was fundamentally right or not, very good writers tend to sway you to their point of view whether you like it or not.

Bill C

[arno]

Mentioned:

Complete Guide to TBred Racing Ainslie
Modern Pace Handicapping Brohamer
Calibration Handicapping Lehane

Not Mentioned:

The Race is Pace Mahl
Bettors Guide to Harness Racing Chaplin

[thruncy]

This is the only mention of Ray Taulbot. Ainslie learned from him. Taulbot had a school in Hadonfield N.J. Beyer was so in love with his variant he poo-pooed pace. Then he recanted. Guess I'm an old fart talking to a Lot of Johnny-come-latelys. Good luck with your variant(s)* "What variant?--Whose variant?" *William Scott

[thruncy]

That's what Ainslie was...a writer. He learned a lot from a handicapper who was also a writer and teacher named Ray Taulbot. "Tom Ainslie" is a pen name.

[Pace Cap'n]

Ainslie--planted in my head the idea that horseracing could be a profitable venture.

Beyer--although I didn't start making figures, his fervor was contagious.

Jim Lehane--provided some actual tools with which to work.

Jerry Stokes--supplied some great longshot angles...and I love longshots.

Scott--how will your horse run today? The 5f workout angle is priceless.

and one extra...

Mike Helm--A Breed Apart--not a handicapping book but it covers all facets of racetrack operations from the point of view of each participant--owner, trainer, track super, etc.

[Donnie]

Hey Pace....what did Jerry Stokes write?
Thanks!!!

[Pace Cap'n]

"Secrets Of Handicapping" by Jerry Stokes

[Pace Cap'n]

I just stumbled across a link that lists all the topics covered in this forum, "Handicapping Library". Find your interest in this list, and click up the thread.

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/archive/index.php/f-7-p-1.html (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/archive/index.php/f-7-p-1.html)

Say, PA, what might be some other archive links?

[Donnie]

Thanks Pace!! Dunno if that is on my shelf or not!!!

[Pace Cap'n]

Probably not, Donnie. It's an e-book.

[Pace Cap'n]

Well, I guess I'm just a bit slow (5 years slow).

The "archive" link is right there at the bottome of every page. D'oh.

[shoelessjoe]

Calibration Handicapping by Lehane

Taulbot anything

Betting Throughbreds by Davidowitz

Professional Method Picking Winners-Voegele

How They Run Fast- Heyburn

[LottaKash]

Calibration Handicapping by Lehane

Taulbot anything

Betting Throughbreds by Davidowitz

Professional Method Picking Winners-Voegele

How They Run Fast- Heyburn


Hey shoeless, or anyone for that matter........Calibration Handicapping as a title, seems to keep coming up as a favorite of many here........could someone elaborate a bit more on this book......Interesting Title has my curiosity piqued, as it just sounds inviiting, it sounds like something I need to know more about...I used to calibrate mechanical things, in order to get at the truth in certain situations......Perhaps it would reveal some things I may be ignorant of, and instigate some new way of thinking as a result......Thx ahead,

best,

[Pace Cap'n]

Here is a thread about Calibration Handicapping from the archives...

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6359 (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6359)

I believe there are others as well.

[Tape Reader]

Tape Reading and Market Tactics by Humphrey B. Neill

The book is about the stock market but, IMO, there are similarities between
tape reading and tote board reading.

[LottaKash]

Here is a thread about Calibration Handicapping from the archives...

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6359 (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6359)

I believe there are others as well.

THX, Pace, I mulled over the comments at that thread, and I think I will take it for a ride....sounds as if there is merit and some unique tangents to Jim Lehanes's way of doing things......cool..:cool:

Thx again, best.........

[maxwell]

Betting T-Breds

Davidowitz tells us the 10K par is 85 ( NY / SoCal )

Handicapper's Condition Book

Quinn tells us the 10K sprint par at major tracks is 83.

DRF

Beyer tells us the 10K par in NY is 79, and 82 in SoCal.

I guess it's 82 if you toss them in a salad bowl.

If you're betting on horses 8/1 and up, it's probably 78. If you're betting on horses 2/1 and down, it's probably 86.

I'm thinking about writing a book. :D

[shoelessjoe]

Lotta Kash, Jim's book gives a really good perspective of how to go about looking at a race,using his ideas along with Taulbot and CJ'S numbers have turned my game around.



Im now reading Randy Giles Extreme Pace book and it has quite a few good ideas in it of how to match up a race.

[LottaKash]

Lotta Kash, Jim's book gives a really good perspective of how to go about looking at a race,using his ideas along with Taulbot and CJ'S numbers have turned my game around.



Im now reading Randy Giles Extreme Pace book and it has quite a few good ideas in it of how to match up a race.

Hey Shoe, cool with that.....Just recently I too purchased Randy Giles' Book "Extreme Pace Handicapping".....Prior to purchasing this book, I E-d him and told him that I was a hardcore Harness Handicapper and asked if his book would be of any value to me.....His reply was both gracious and informative, in fact he offered me a total refund if I had found his work to have little value or significance to me.......Nice guy I think....
.
The Pace Pressure Gauge concept is intriguing, and he does have a nifty way of sizing up the contenders for possible pace scenarios.........And to this, I confess at being sometimes inept in this department, as it has always been holding me back somewhat in my pursuit of winning the kash......Many of my horses seem to win despite this shortcoming of mine, but it would be nicer to understand a bit more of why this may be so......This book leads me further down that path of enlightenment....

A short but interesting read and some valid points of view when considering the all important pace issue.......His viewpoint is worth the $19 bucks to me....

best,

[delayjf]

Here’s my 2 cents.
On a national handicapping scene I think these books had the biggest impact by bringing the concepts they explored into the handicapping mainstream.
Picking Winners – First Beyer book I read, got me making my own speed figures. Today Beyer speed figures are a fundamental of the game.

Betting Throughbreds (Davidowitz ) Like Beyers speed figures, Davidowitz has turned the concepts of track bias and trainers stats into commonly utilized handicapping factors

The Winning Horse Player - Brought trip handicapping into the mainstream.

Sartin yellow Manual – not to demean Brohamer in anyway –but Doc (the Sartin Methodology) got the pace revolution started, not that Doc invented pace handicapping, only like Beyer / Davidowitz did with speed figures and track bias, he brought it into the main stream.

On a personal level the books listed below have impacted my handicapping:

Blinkers Off – Cary Fotias – pace / form concepts that I look for and use every day.

Ray Taulbot’s Angles – I’m amazed as to how they are still relevant today especially at picking longshot winners.

Form Cycles – Cramer’s best work, influences how I look at trainer data.

HTR – Ken Massa – he has not written a book, but if he did.

[MONEY]

WOW!!
I read the whole thread and didn't find any of these books in it.

In chronological order:

The Ultimate Guide to Handicapping the Horses: From a horseman and a Gambler

The Ultimate Guide to Beating Baseball

The Tuttle Way: Applied Methodologies On "How To" Interpret The Racing Form From A Winning Horseplayer

Trainer: (A Novella)

The Tuttle Way II: Horsemanship Knowledge Coupled with Actual Betting Configurations for The Advanced Horseplayer

Football Betting For Real Players: A Book for Those Individuals That Can Wager on Average $500.00 Minimum per Game

Speed, Speed, and Nothing but Speed: The New Bible for True Speed Handicappers

Three-N-One:: "The Tuttle Way" 1&2 +"Trainer"

The Professional Handicapper: Advanced Teachings in the Ways to Properly Forecast College & Pro Football

Harness The Winning: The Definitive Book On How To Make A Living Wagering On Nothing But Harness Racing

Eight-N-One: The Complete 8 book collection (pseudonyms included) by Author Joseph J Tuttle

So You Think You Can Gamble, On Sports?

"Tuttle Math" Football Prospectus

Win Every Race: A Never Before Seen Wagering System Dedicated to Any Kind of Horse Racing

83% Winners: An Easy to Understand System
:lol: money:lol:

[LottaKash]

WOW!!
I read the whole thread and didn't find any of these books in it.

:lol: money:lol:
:lol:

Now that IS funny.....:lol: :lol: :lol:

best,

[Thunder Gulch]

Tough question because it's hard to decide if something was more influential because it opened your mind, such as the first time I read Ainslie, or whether a certain book is more influential because it's theory is used in your current handicapping methodology.

Here's mine

Ainslie's "Complete Guide to Thoroughbred Handicapping". It was the first I read and laid out the basics as well as any since.

Quinn's "The Best of Thoroughbred Handicapping". This is probably the book that sent me on a quest for knowledge like no other I've read. I'm late to the game, but this book introduced me to Quinn's other works, Mark Cramer, and Cary Fotias, among others.

Brohammer's "Modern Pace Handicapping". I still use more from this book in my day to day handicapping than any other book. The track profile section is one of the most useful concepts I can imagine.

Mark Cramer's "Fast Track to Thoroughbred Profits". Not the best of Cramer's work, but in my development it was critical to start thinking contrarian and looking for answers at a deeper level than Ainslie and Beyer.

Cary Fotias "Blinkers Off". With Brohammer's methods and this is the cornerstone of my methodology.

Honorable Mention.
Davidowitz "Betting Thoroughbreds", Quinn's "Handicapper's Condition Book", Litfin's "Expert Handicapping", Cramer's "Thoroughbred Cycles".

[Bill Cullen]

Complete Guide (Ainslie)
Winning at the Races (Quirin)
Modern Impact Values (Nunamaker)
Handicapper's Condition Book (Quinn)
Betting Thoroughbreds (Davidowitz)

Bill C

[Houndog]

1) Complete Guide to Thoroughbred Handicapping - Tom Ainslie (Dick Carter) one of the first books I read that dealt with handicapping and not by a system peddler. Very good book to understand the basics.

2) Picking Winners - Andy Beyer - The basis for an understanding of Speed Handicapping.

3) Handicapper's Condition Book - James Quinn. Really good for determining class levels and conditions on a given race.

4) Modern Pace Handicapping - Tom Brohamer One of my favorite handicapping books of all time. Some may call it a translation of the Sartin yellow manual which it is and much more.

5) The Odds on Your Side - Mark Cramer - I like his contrarian way of thinking. One of the first value based handicappers.

[shoelessjoe]

For some reason I just thought of another good book that was not mentioned
The Lone Speed Method by Bill Olmsted.Bill was co author of the C&O report and also way back when made some of the pace and speed figures around.I used to bug him all the time to do Charles Town and when he finally did they relly worked well.

[dartman51]

In no particular order, 5 of my favs. Modern Pace Handicapping-Tom Brohamer
Beyer On Speed- Andrew Beyer
Common Sense Betting- Dick Mitchell
Thoroughbred Handicapping State of The Art- William L. Quirin
Investing at the Racetrack- William L Scott :ThmbUp:

[cj]

My 5, in order:

1) Thoroughbred Handicapping: State of the Art, Quirin (Pace)
2) Picking Winners, Beyer (Speed Figures and Trainers)
3) Figure Handicapping, Quinn (Turf, and later synthetics)
4) Money Secrets at the Racetrack, Meadow (Betting)
5) The Winning Horseplayer, Beyer (Trips)

[Buckeye]

1) Modern Pace Handicapping

2) More Basic Betting

3) My $50,000 Year At the Races

4) Pace Makes the Race

5) Dr. Z's Beat the Racetrack

Honorable Mentions: The Best of Thoroughbred Handicapping & Investing at the Racetrack

1

Have a First Edition.

2

never heard of it.

3

nice, he bailed himself out at the end-- not unusual.

4

Great book and underrated, I gave it away.

5

Not a way to make any REAL money.

[Buckeye]

See, I am under-read, in addition to all my other faults.

Pretty seriously under read, since I've not read ANYTHING in ten years. Am I waiting for some people to catch up? :)

What books, articles or whatever would you PA or others reccomend on betting strategy slash operations? By the way, I can "handicap" my way out of a piss soaked paper bag at times (any time), but is that enough?

I have Barry Meadows stuff and I have some other stuff too.

Not to mention, I have MY stuff. ;)

[Buckeye]

Seriously, I believe betting is at least half the puzzle and at MOST one percent of the discussion here. Maybe you successful people will point me in the right direction out of pity.

Reprogram my brain as it were, it you will.

Meanwhile I'm not buying Black Magic or White Magic or any Magic.

How wrong can I be? Not sure why this horse site (supposedly devoted to winning money I assume) is NOT really doing that.

Let's correct that please and the sooner the better.

[saevena]

1. Win, Place, and Show--Robert Saunders Dowst
2. In the Stretch: A Manual of Handicapping and Betting--Robert Saunders Dowst
3. The Odds, the Player, the Horses--Robert Saunders Dowst
4. Computer Discoveries in Thoroughbred Handicapping--William L. Quirin
5. Professional Method of Winner Selection--Larry Voegele

[LottaKash]

See, I am under-read,
Not to mention, I have MY stuff. ;)

Hey Buckeye, may I ask about what stuff you have, and would you care to share any of this stuff with anyone here?....I am curious........:jump:

best,

[Buckeye]

Hey Buckeye, may I ask about what stuff you have, and would you care to share any of this stuff with anyone here?....I am curious........:jump:

best,

what is "enough" is doing and believing in and supporting with REAL money your own opinion.

See how much I've brought you all back to thinking as I do. My brain is not for sale (don't know how to package it), but neither is YOUR brain. Step up to the plate and strike out or hit a home run. ALL software sellers are just that, software sellers. Did you expect they could "help" you? If so shame on you and them. I've been through quite a few hoops in my life and am willing to offer you free of charge the truth. NOBODY is going to give you FREE what's needed. They themselves don't even know what's needed but if they did they would not sell it.

Case closed.

[Buckeye]

Bookwriters and Software Sellers same thing. The best way to win is to be outside of everybody else by luck or by what you believe in. Naturally, you can't be too far divorced from reality but you'd better be to some extent. :)

[Buckeye]

They don't gamble for a living.

Take it to the bank! And if they did they simply would not sell it. How simple is that? Very in my opinion. Get situated get of few bucks together and bet on yourself. If you're good enough to win you'll win. If not you'll lose. It's up to you-- not software creators or authors. They don't bet since they know "their limitations" and therefore I'm not buying. That would only Cost me money. In a typical race you have 10 horses 4 look good and 2 or 1 look better. Bet it anyway you want. I asked the Pace Advantage geniuses to reveal their betting strategy but so far that hasn't happened.

[cj]

People like security by nature. No matter how good a gambler one is, there is NO GUARANTEE you will win today, this week, this month, this year, etc.

People selling something have income not related to gambling, and the security of that income is probably worth the trade off in possible slightly lower prices.

Even if they don't gamble, that doesn't mean there isn't value in what they teach. Computer Science professor's aren't professional computer programmers, but they can still teach those that will be some day.

[LottaKash]

. Get situated get of few bucks together and bet on yourself. If you're good enough to win you'll win. If not you'll lose. It's up to you-- .

Buckeye, it sounds as if you have found the "holy grail of hoss-racin'"... and you can no longer understand why people would possibly want to entertain some new insights or explore a new path to the cashier's window....

Are my perceptions of your posts, correct ?

If you wrote a book about how good you are, and I sincerely wished to believe the hype on the book jacket, how much could I win ?....

best,

[Overlay]

NOBODY is going to give you FREE what's needed. They themselves don't even know what's needed but if they did they would not sell it.

Your statement seems somewhat contradictory. Selling something is not giving it away for free. It's exchanging value (ideas) for value (money). And if a handicapping approach is structured so that the user doesn't have to worry about the odds being affected, or the approach being bet into unprofitability, why not sell it, so that you can receive additional compensation for having developed it, while at the same time providing other handicappers with its benefits?

[Alyblakester]

I built my turf handicapping library first with Ainslie, then the trilogy of Andy Beyer books and Davidowitz. But I'll give my personal top 5 later - includes a couple of these but not all.

[LottaKash]

.Case closed.

Case closed ?....Why I am getting this feeling that you were born with this wondrous ability, and you were able to beat the races right from the "get-go" ?......Meaning, other than your own ideas, there were no books, software, or inspirational ideas of others, that may have led you to being the great and unqualified success that you seem to be .....Is this correct ?

That is all I get from your posts..

best,

[jonnielu]

My apologies to all of the hard working book writers out there... but, that 'Most Influential" thing limits me to only three.

1. Professional Method of Winner Selection - Larry Voegele

2. My $50,000 Year At the Races - Beyer

3. Dr. Sartin

The first, because it attracted a huge number of new fans to the game, in conjunction with the high media interest that Secretariat stirred. The message was, "You can win too."

The next two, influenced that whole crowd, and continues to do so to this day.

jdl

[Buckeye]

Case closed ?....Why I am getting this feeling that you were born with this wondrous ability, and you were able to beat the races right from the "get-go" ?......Meaning, other than your own ideas, there were no books, software, or inspirational ideas of others, that may have led you to being the great and unqualified success that you seem to be .....Is this correct ?

That is all I get from your posts..

best,

well, life is a wonderous challenge so meet me somewhere and we'll see if you're up to it. Seriously, I was born with a few talents. I squandered most of them but not all of them. The question really is, how do any of these apply to the future or present?

It's always a guessing game how's that? By no means do you EVER want to agree with anybody if you want to win. Step out and support (with your own money) your opinion(s) always. How much clearer do I need to be? Somebody said yeah, software people give you information that could be of value-- not too much value I say because number 1 (ONE!) they are SELLING it and number two they are SELLING it. Why don't they just not sell it? Ok, I'll admit I use some software tools (which in of themselves are worthless) to assist me. Key word being 'assist' me. Better to underline the word me which I just did.

People, there is no free lunch here 17% or more takeout drugs injuries foreign owners unknown factors you name it. Might take some thought. I can do that. Whatever you come up with it can't be worse than set computer software formulation. They lose but you on the other hand could win.

[Buckeye]

If you're good enough. :)

[LottaKash]

. Why don't they just not sell it? Ok, I'll admit I use some software tools (which in of themselves are worthless) to assist me. Key word being 'assist' me. Better to underline the word me which I just did.

Finally, this was my whole point, what software ?.....Thankfully, there is a wide variety and choice in this matter, and thankfully as well, one or some of these venues, do ASSIST others on their road to riches....

Your earlier posts, at least to me, sounded as if all books and software are worthless.......glad to see that is not entirely true of you, as you do use some worhless stuff as much as the rest of us.....yaay !

And sure, it is Gambling all the same.......

best,

[Buckeye]

key word being gambling. Now let's see,
just how to be a winning gambler might further this discussion. I maintain not by being a follower. In the first race at Hollywood tonight my software tools say (as I interperet them) bet da one and da two.

[Buckeye]

Gotta keep this is real time in my opinion. Today is the day.

[Buckeye]

It's always real time real money real opinions that matter. Hope I answered some of the questions asked. Deeper personal analysis into a given race could help but right now go one or two. I used (worthless on it's own) software to "help" me understand and make a decision. We'll see if that'll be correct.

[LottaKash]

It's always real time real money real opinions that matter. Hope I answered some of the questions asked. Deeper personal analysis into a given race could help but right now go one or two. I used (worthless on it's own) software to "help" me understand and make a decision. We'll see if that'll be correct.

Too Funny Buckeye.....Good Luck......:jump:

best,

[Buckeye]

not as funny as you may think . . .

Sixty Five I'm still alive in race two Hollywood-- 11 or Fourteen 2 Thousand 8.

I love a good joke, don't get me wrong, but right now I'm of the opinion 5 or six or somebody else! will win race two. Software people step up. Silence. See what I mean: it's up to you to make choices have opinions and so on.

Don't get me started because A-- I will do just that, and B, NOT because some software seller in any way provided me with it. Let me ask you this and anybody following this, what's going on in the NFL? You may know but I can assure you no software does.

[Greyfox]

Even if they don't gamble, that doesn't mean there isn't value in what they teach. Computer Science professor's aren't professional computer programmers, but they can still teach those that will be some day.

Absolutely "spot on."
I've spatted with cj before on other threads, about other ideas.
Cj is on the money on that comment!
If, you can get one idea that advances your play at this game,
and makes you go to the windows more often, why would anyone knock the author who sold you the book?
So you spent $20-$30-$40 bucks on a book or an e-book, and
you get that back the next day or days at the races, that one idea
may have changed your views. And in some instances, might be life changing, even though the author didn't make the same play that day.

[Fingal]

Absolutely "spot on."
I've spatted with cj before on other threads, about other ideas.
Cj is on the money on that comment!
If, you can get one idea that advances your play at this game,
and makes you go to the windows more often, why would anyone knock the author who sold you the book?
So you spent $20-$30-$40 bucks on a book or an e-book, and
you get that back the next day or days at the races, that one idea
may have changed your views. And in some instances, might be life changing, even though the author didn't make the same play that day.

If one choses to become a professional such as a doctor, dentist, engineer or whatever, one has to keep learning, to stay up to date with new ideas or concepts. Spending a little money each year to stay informed is the cost of doing business. Why should this exercise be any different ? Listen to all theories, do your own due dillegence ( Not just relying on others ) & then see if there is any validation to the concept.

Listen to all, follow none.

[Alyblakester]

Here's my top 5 in no particular order. The list contains 2 of Beyer's books, by the way. So I guess he is my handicapping guru if I have one.

:1: My $50,000 Year at the Races by Andy Beyer

:2: Picking Winners by Andy Beyer

:3: Winning TB Strategies by Dick Mitchell

:4: Money Secrets at the Racetrack by Barry Meadow

:5: Payoff $9,800 in Five Weeks by Larry Voegele

Also Eligible: The Winning Horseplayer, Beat The Racetrack

[highnote]

There are so many good ones it's hard to know where to begin.

1. Asch and Quandt's "Professors' Guide to Racetrack Betting"
Their book introduced me to Dr. Z's system

2. "Dr. Z's Beat the Racetrack". Dr. Z sold some of Dick Mitchell's products through his newsletter back in the day. I made decent money with Dr. Z's system at Yonkers Racetrack.

3. Dick Mitchell's book "Winning Thoroughbred Strategies". I spent 3 months studying this book before I placed a single wager on a t-bred. It was good, and I won, but not quite good enough.

I attended the Handicapper's Expo in Las Vegas the year Sea Hero won the Derby and met Dick Mitchell and some of the Sartin people.

4. I bought "Pace Makes the Race" by Sartin, et al.
By the end of Saratoga and my first 6 months of betting I was showing a profit. And I had previously never made anything but a Dr. Z bet in my life.

5. "Modern Pace Handicapping", Brohammer. My game really improved after I applied the ideas in this book. But it was a lot more work than Pace Makes the Race.

Those were the first 5 I read. I also recommend:

5. Everything by Beyer, Quinn, Quirin and Cramer.
6. Litfin's first book had some real nuggets of solid info.
7. "Blinkers Off" by Cary Fotias -- If you've read every book that came before this one and then read "Blinkers Off" you'll agree it is revolutionary.
8. "Betting for a Living" by Nick Mordin. Classic.
9. "Efficiency of Racetrack Betting Markets" by Dr. Z, et al. If you want to bet like the big time professionals this is the book that will get you there.

10. Last, but not least, "The Match Up" by Jim Bradshaw. Not everyone agrees with me, but for me, it simplified Brohammer's method, yet is every bit as powerful.

[raybo]

The only handicapping book I have ever read, in it's entirety, was one by Pittsburgh Phil. This was done before ever making a wager on a horse race. After going to the track a couple of times and getting use to paramutuel wagering, which didn't exist in Phil's time, I started showing a slight profit with WPS wagering (this was back in 1979 or so).

I think the one thing that I got from the book, and is still the cornerstone of my handicapping/wagering method, is that if a wager is not a smart wager then you are not going to make a profit.

I have read bits and pieces from other books, for specific questions I developed over the years, but never read all of the books from cover to cover.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is that a smart wager is a good wager, no matter the outcome of the race.

[RaceBookJoe]

The only handicapping book I have ever read, in it's entirety, was one by Pittsburgh Phil. This was done before ever making a wager on a horse race. After going to the track a couple of times and getting use to paramutuel wagering, which didn't exist in Phil's time, I started showing a slight profit with WPS wagering (this was back in 1979 or so).

I think the one thing that I got from the book, and is still the cornerstone of my handicapping/wagering method, is that if a wager is not a smart wager then you are not going to make a profit.

I have read bits and pieces from other books, for specific questions I developed over the years, but never read all of the books from cover to cover.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is that a smart wager is a good wager, no matter the outcome of the race.

I really enjoyed Pittsburgh Phil's "Maxims" , i actually have an original copy. His line..."Good horse, good jockey, good trainer...good bet " always rings in my head when i look at the form. rbj

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Kinky Handicapping - Cramer
Thoroughbred Cycles - Cramer
Modern Pace Handicapping - Brohammer
Betting Thoroughbreds - Davidowitz
Encyclopedia of Handicapping - Ainslie

[John]

I wish Tom Console would write a book on handicapping.


:) :) :)

[Buckeye]

I could write a book on this stuff but PA keeps on wisely deleting my stupid stuff. Good for you PA since whatever remains could be in fact be worth publishing? :)

I am not interested in being published, I am interested in winning money-- that's spelled with an M.

And I'd even PAY for it if anybody was selling it.

[John]

I really would like Steve Wolson, to write a book because I believe Steve Wolson does have much to contribute to the Thoroughbred world and to frustrating handicappers. [ me included ]

:) :) :)

[PaceAdvantage]

I could write a book on this stuff but PA keeps on wisely deleting my stupid stuff.Your stuff is being deleted because it is off topic. When someone writes a thread asking for top 5 most influential books, they don't want to read someone like you posting that books suck, you can't learn anything from this one, blah blah blah.

Or, when someone writes a thread about a certain handicapping program, they don't want you coming in and writing that all programs suck, you can't win using a commercial program, blah blah blah.

By all means, start a new thread and happily type away every negative thing you have to say about books and software. But don't mess up other threads with your off topic banter.

Hopefully, you now get the message.

[Buckeye]

got it . . .

but software and books still suck by definition. And as far as the word "influential" is concerned, not my problem as I've tried more than most and am reasonably well under-read. :)

Mess what up? I'm only trying to TELL the Truth, and follow the rules of this (your site), and from now on I will . . .

Carry on Brother.

[Alyblakester]

I think I would've appreciated Mark Cramer's books. He used to write some great stuff in Gambling Times if I recall. Kinky Handicapping is an odd title but I bet it's a fun read!

[PaceAdvantage]

Mess what up? I'm only trying to TELL the Truth, and follow the rules of this (your site), and from now on I will . . .No, you're telling what YOU believe to be YOUR version of the truth. It is NOT the absolute truth, as others will attest.

[rrbauer]

Davidowitz - Betting Thoroughbreds
Beyer - Picking Winners and the one after that on Trip Handicapping
Huey Mahl - Can't remember titles but he had stuff on pace and money management.
Barry Meadow - A poster here and a guy who knows more about gambling than any five guys/books you can name.
Pace Makes the Race (The yellow cover one)

Also, in 6+ years at this board I have read some very good posts/explanations/dissertations on a variety of gambling-related subjects that IMO were superior to anything that you would find in 99% of the books.

Does the name Bob Manchester mean anything to anyone? Bob taught me volumes about odds, probabilities, toteboard analysis and how speed is the "great discourager" in a handful of years at the track. He also taught me about playing golf for money and poker....expensive lessons on my part!

[BlueShoe]

The forum has mentioned numerous good works,many of which I have read and liked.However,the most influential author/teacher/writer for myself was the late Louis G. Holloway.Most of his good stuff was in the form of manuals,bulletins,and short works.He was very down to earth and rather cynical,and emphasized just how hard it was to make money at speculation.He was one of the very few men that could grind out profits at minus expectation games such as craps and roulette.I know this,I once spent three days with him in Las Vegas taking his personal instructions and spending time at the tables and the racebooks with him .The man was a storehouse of knowledge about both horses and casino games.At the time that I met him I was in my 20's,and he told me candidly that I might not be seasoned enough to be a winner at the track or tables,that usually only middle aged and elderly men had the skill and disipline to be winners.He was right in my case.

[Wickel]

Beyer (Picking Winners), Davidowitz (Betting Thoroughbreds) and Huey Mahl (his pace book) took the game to a new level. Other authors who equally impacted the game were Quirin, Brohamer, Ainslie and, most recently, Pizzola. IMHO, I'm tossing John Meyer right up there with these guys because of his meticulous work in the field: pace, last fraction, early speed, etc. He didn't publish any books, but he did write several studies in booklet form on these subject.

[Wickel]

Oh yeah, and James Selvidge: "Hold Your Horses." Impacted many horseplayers.

[gm10]

1. Betting thoroughbreds (Davidowitz)
2. Computer Based Horse Race Handicapping and Wagering Systems (Benter)
3. Picking Winners (Beyer)
4. The Handicappers's Condition book (Quinn)
5. Thoroughbred Handicapping: State of the Art (Quirin)

[Bill Cullen]

Most books are starting points...

If a novice horse player isn't willing to experiment, AND, verify or refute certain hypotheses they personally take to heart, then are are condemend to repeat the past.

Good for the rest of us...
but I wish every one to be successful.

I struggle at it myself.

Bill C

[Pell Mell]

To tell you the truth..I can't tell you one book that has really helped me in my handicapping. Mostly for me its' been trial and error..Reading pps, watching races and years of losing. Everyone has to lose money in this game before ever winning consistenly. Am I a pro. Far from it. My handicapping is sound but my money mangement is suspect at times. It took years to find my bread and butter. Maiden races are my favorite type. Especially 2 year old first time starters. I never was a fan of the claiming game and conditions of a race. Especially the cheap races. You don't even know if the horse is sound or not. Ninety nine percent of all first time starters are sound. No guessing there. There's no conditions. Its get out of the gate and go. You learn the sires, and pinpoint the ones that are meant for that distance or surface and you got a huge advantage over the public..HUGE ADVANTAGE!!!

This is quite odd. I agree with the first part because I have only learned anything worthwhile from Ray Talbot. The rest of them are just blowing hot air.
Where we do disagree is in the type of races we play. I only play claimers, and prefer the cheap ones, and race conditions make up a huge part of my handicapping.
I don't know if I'm a pro or not but I'm good enough to have my own selection service and most of my clients have been with me for more than a year.

[46zilzal]

Different books change different ideas in differing ways. No two people read any book and come away with the same perceptions.

[LottaKash]

I think I would've appreciated Mark Cramer's books. He used to write some great stuff in Gambling Times if I recall. Kinky Handicapping is an odd title but I bet it's a fun read!

Odd title and a more Odd-Cover...A depiction of a guy sitting on the can, doping out the ponies....He used to write a column for the DRF, and they canned him for it, I believe...Kinky handicapping & Kinkier handicapping are good reads...

Mark Cramer, is a very gifted, writer, handicapper, and teacher...He is the most inspirational racing writer I have ever read, he provokes you to re-arrange your shopping list when searching for winners....His way is not the way of many, for sure...an iconoclast....

best,

[Buckeye]

Handicapping Magic and the book I never wrote (yet). The rest of it you can have.

These are the two best books "out there" :)

The most influential book "lately" was Picking Winners by Andy Beyer. Problem with this book: it didn't really tell you how to disagree with everyone else and still be right and profitable. HM does that by saying come up with something on your own and then compare and contrast that with the expected behavior of your opponent. Only time you can afford to disagree with your opponent is when you can reasonably and with all due respect. There are no rules. There is nothing new under the Sun as far as horseracing is concerned. You are free to do whatever you want with all due respect for your opponent because after all that's who's going to pay you. I almost feel like I'm giving too much away but no-- because it all starts with an opinion, your opinion, and that's up to you.

[Buckeye]

Get the book Handicapping Magic and read it.

[Greyfox]

There is nothing new under the Sun as far as horseracing is concerned. .

That may be true if you know everything about horse racing.
I don't. I read. I've learned something new every week about racing for as long as I've been going to the track which is a very long time. I know that there is still a hell of a lot that I don't know.

[Buckeye]

well that's good. Read what and learn from who? I'm interested in your reading list. If I could learn something valuable every week that would be something. The question was, what is the most influential book? Second choice would be another book by Beyer, My $50,000 Year at the Races. In it he kind of goes GAMBLER to his credit. What book have you read this week?

[fmolf]

well that's good. Read what and learn from who? I'm interested in your reading list. If I could learn something valuable every week that would be something. The question was, what is the most influential book? Second choice would be another book by Beyer, My $50,000 Year at the Races. In it he kind of goes GAMBLER to his credit. What book have you read this week?
1)how will your horse run today?/Total Victory at the Racetrack...Scott
2)Body language of horses...Ainslie and Leadbetter
3)Thoroughbred form cycles..Cramer
4)handicappers condition book...Quinn
5)Common sense Handicapping..Dick Mitchell

honorable mention to Quirin for "Computer discoveries in Handicapping"

[CBedo]

1)how will your horse run today?/Total Victory at the Racetrack...Scott
2)Body language of horses...Ainslie and Leadbetter
3)Thoroughbred form cycles..Cramer
4)handicappers condition book...Quinn
5)Common sense Handicapping..Dick Mitchell

honorable mention to Quirin for "Computer discoveries in Handicapping":ThmbUp: Very good list, imho.

[CincyHorseplayer]

What is Scott's first name??

[CBedo]

:ThmbUp: Very good list, imho.William L Scott I believe.

[Buckeye]

I've also read the ability time book "How will your horse run today?" whatever. I own three books by this guy. Investment Form Cycles and Total Victory.

Read it, bought it and tried to use them all, I'll say way back in 1988. That was a few years ago. I'm not going to write my book and give it all away EXCEPT to say I'm not giving it away. I'm not selling it either for $19.95. You've gotta take the tools you have and make them work by sheer power of will. The Most Important component is your opinion.

I gave my best reccomendation, read Handicapping Magic and integrate it into your Mind. As Larry Ledderman (sp?) said, "It's not a Battle it's a War."

[thruncy]

But Gordon Jones' : "Gordon Jones to Win!" and "Smart Money," had some worthwhile ideas.

[FUGITIVE77]

William L Scott I believe.

His real last name was Finley. His son Bill Finley wrote "Betting Synthetic Surfaces" just published last year. His pen name was derived from the first names of his three kids.