View Full Version : The Ronald Reagan Test
Secretariat
09-13-2008, 04:38 PM
Are you better off now than you were four years ago?
bigmack
09-13-2008, 05:27 PM
Unfortunately, the phrase ''better off'' is generally understood as a reference to your salary, your bank balance, your IRA and the like. But wait. Are you better off being four years older? That depends.
If you are young, since 2004 you might have found romance, had children, learned to fly-fish and become a Tampa Bay Rays fan. In which case you emphatically are better off, even if since 2004 there has been only a 0.6 percent increase — yes, increase — in the median value of single-family homes.
..Self-consciously ''modern'' people have an urge to reduce assessments of their lives to things that can be presented in tables, charts and graphs — personal and national economic statistics. This sharpens their minds by narrowing them. Such people might as well measure out their lives in coffee spoons.
In 1934, long before mankind strode jauntily into what it contentedly calls ''the information age,'' T.S. Eliot asked:
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information
My hands aren't all that tired, Sec. I cut & pasted that.
Linkalopolus (http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/27984019.html)
Sec is doing better....all this overtime from the DNC to try to stop Sara. :lol:
The question is can we last 4 years with Quito-crats, surrender monkeys, at the helm? Maybe Dingy Harry will just surrender to Russia to save time. Obama probably doesn't even know who Russia is. Unless he looked at his paychecks back in the day when he was community agitator with his terrorist buddy.
riskman
09-13-2008, 06:09 PM
Well, this did not happen again. BTW, where is Osama Bin Laden ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW8puRqE4Sc&feature=related
JustRalph
09-13-2008, 06:13 PM
Well, this did not happen again. BTW, where is Osama Bin Laden ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW8puRqE4Sc&feature=related
Who cares, he is impotent and all of his buddies are dead.
Thanks to who? Georgie Boy :lol:
Overlay
09-13-2008, 06:15 PM
When Reagan asked that question in 1980, it was a choice between the continuation of the policies of the same administration (on which there was a basis for judgment), or the election of a new one. After this election (even if the Republicans win), and regardless of depictions of McCain as a Bush clone, one way or the other there will be a new administration in Washington with a new approach to governing.
riskman
09-13-2008, 06:40 PM
Who cares, he is impotent and all of his buddies are dead.
Thanks to who? Georgie Boy :lol:
Tell that to the troops in Afghan. Who are we fighting there?
You think my post is funny? Come to NYC and I will escort you to the graves of the 300 plus of my co- workers that were lost at AON Corporation on 9/11. I want that SOB Bin Laden brought to justice. That piece of shit represents the symbol of death, destruction pain and heartache. The Taliban still lives and breathes in Afghan--that should have been the first priority NOT IRAQ ---GET IT !!!!
OTM Al
09-13-2008, 07:47 PM
Actually Ralph I care a whole lot too. The money and planning behind the event that killed almost 3000 Americans that day and how many more due to diseases both mental and physical since. We are told his organization is still a threat to us, but now you say he is irrelevant? I really can't believe you actually said that.
ElKabong
09-13-2008, 09:29 PM
I think a better poll would be "How much worse will it be if Obama wins?"
ElKabong
09-13-2008, 09:52 PM
Al,
I'm not answering for JR, but I feel and talk the same way he does on the subject of OBL. There's no reason to believe OBL planned a 1 and done attack on the country. Since 9-11 we haven't had another attack on our soil, nothing even close. (why doesn't GWB get some credit for this?)
OBL has become the proverbial person on a milk carton. He doesn't live a normal life, always on the run knowing the US (regardless of political affiliation) is after him. His goal on 9-11 was accomplished, but thereafter we've gotten the best of this thing.
In that sense he HAS become irrelevant. AQ isn't a one man band and we've certainly eliminated many of his followers and top hands.
OTM Al
09-13-2008, 10:42 PM
Ok, one more time. Complicit in the murder of nearly 3000 American citizens.
There should never be anything irrelevant about that. Ever. Yes this administration deserves credit for preventing attacks just as every single one before it does. We will never know how many plots have been foiled over time. However, this is their job. You get credit for your job by getting a paycheck and being allowed to continue doing it.
Should the world have ignored war criminals from WWII because they had gone on the run and most of their organization had been taken care of? Absolutely not. Even today if one was caught he would deserve punishment and I don't care if the guy was 90. Murder is murder.
Believing this guy is irrelevant is about as stupid as believing that "9-11 truth" crap.
ElKabong
09-13-2008, 10:48 PM
Al,
You're focused on OBL the person. I'm more concerned about his organiation of 1000's. I kind of like the idea this guy is living in complete fear and isolation, knowing if and when he's caught he'll "disappear" (wonder if that's the case?).
I'm not going to convince you, nor do I want to start an arguement. We both want his demise.
JustRalph
09-13-2008, 11:00 PM
I never said he was irrelevant? I would personally pull the trigger on the man.
I said "who cares" along the same lines El Kabong is stating. He isn't the man or the organization he once was.
Riskman, if you were so damn worried about fighting terrorism to get back at those who pulled off 9-11, maybe you should have shown more support for Pres. Bush. He is the one person who has actually pulled the trigger and killed terrorists............he has been steadfast and he is the guy approving cross border incursions to continue to go after AQ and the Taliban.
Bush has enabled us to go after them wherever they are found. :ThmbUp:
HUSKER55
09-13-2008, 11:28 PM
America is going to evolve. We are a nation of people bound together by faith and not by race. We have government corruption, bad laws in just about any sector you care to name. Policies that are out of date and out of touch.
Our economy needs stabilized and corporations need to bring the jobs back to the US.
The Wall Street Journal says yes. However, compared to when I was a kid you are on drugs.
The question you need to answer is "Do you relly feel comfortable with Obama"?
I'm Voting for McCain and Palin and so shouuld you.
richrosa
09-14-2008, 10:39 AM
Who cares, he is impotent and all of his buddies are dead.
Thanks to who? Georgie Boy :lol:
Excellent. A point that does not get made enough.
46zilzal
09-14-2008, 12:34 PM
Tell that to the troops in Afghan. Who are we fighting there?
You think my post is funny? Come to NYC and I will escort you to the graves of the 300 plus of my co- workers that were lost at AON Corporation on 9/11. I want that SOB Bin Laden brought to justice. That piece of shit represents the symbol of death, destruction pain and heartache. The Taliban still lives and breathes in Afghan--that should have been the first priority NOT IRAQ ---GET IT !!!!
No the out of touch ivory tower NEOCONS thought, what the heck, we have the go ahead to do anything and let's implement our plan to rearrange the middle east as they will all topple once we have taken Iraq....In your dreams.
OTM Al
09-14-2008, 02:35 PM
I would have hoped that all we needed was one rude awakening to no longer underestimate our opponents, but I see I am wrong about that. Until this man is removed he will continue to be a rallying point for those that feel as he does and a threat. This I do not doubt. He has already shown that he is able to plan in the long run and does not rush in what he wants done. I have no doubt he is still very actively planning future attacks on us and our allies.
richrosa
09-14-2008, 03:22 PM
I would have hoped that all we needed was one rude awakening to no longer underestimate our opponents, but I see I am wrong about that. Until this man is removed he will continue to be a rallying point for those that feel as he does and a threat. This I do not doubt. He has already shown that he is able to plan in the long run and does not rush in what he wants done. I have no doubt he is still very actively planning future attacks on us and our allies.
I've always thought that OBL has been at room temperature since Tora Bora, but a wise decision was made to bite the bullet and not make him a martyr for the rest of the jihadists. Someday the truth will be known, but if he is alive, I'm certain that he has absolutely no freedom, and nearly all the people he trusted before 9/11 are captured or at room temperature too.
wonatthewire1
09-14-2008, 06:28 PM
I've always thought that OBL has been at room temperature since Tora Bora, but a wise decision was made to bite the bullet and not make him a martyr for the rest of the jihadists. Someday the truth will be known, but if he is alive, I'm certain that he has absolutely no freedom, and nearly all the people he trusted before 9/11 are captured or at room temperature too.
Excellent point Richrosa - but OBL did play such a large and central role in our last Prez election!
Never know when you've got to go digging a VCR tape up (you'd a thunk that OBL would have switched to Blu Ray by now) to make a point about evil doers being out on the loose.
But like our Prez says, he's not too worked up about it anymore. So it would be wise to take his advice and do the same from here on out. Unless that Barry guy gets elected, then get ready to dive into the bunker!
wonatthewire1
09-14-2008, 06:31 PM
there sure are a lot of demonrats on this board
56% worse off than 4 years ago? Man, the US of A is going down the tubes with that type of attitude. And y'all should pay attention when the new guy gets in so you can make some big bucks off the newest trends.
Defense and oil have been berry, berry, berry good to us! Thanks GWB!!!
:ThmbUp:
OTM Al
09-14-2008, 07:00 PM
Ok guys, have it your way. If King George tells you its ok, then it must be. I sincerely hope I'll never have to tell you I told you so though. Seeing that once was enough for me.
The thing is, we don't want to be REALLY worse off in 4 four years.
That is a certainty with Cater, er, Obama.
PaceAdvantage
09-15-2008, 03:07 AM
Ok guys, have it your way. If King George tells you its ok, then it must be.King George told you it was Osama bin Laden who was behind the attacks, and apparently, you (and most others) believe him.
Curious why you would believe the Bush Administration when it tells you Osama was behind 9/11, but discount most if not all of the other stuff....
OTM Al
09-15-2008, 09:16 AM
The American intelligence community told us who was behind the attacks. They've also told us he is still alive by verifying recordings as authentic. I believe them.
PaceAdvantage
09-17-2008, 03:34 AM
The American intelligence community told us who was behind the attacks. They've also told us he is still alive by verifying recordings as authentic. I believe them.I just find it interesting how some of the most ardent Bush haters (I'm not claiming you are in this category, I have no idea) parrot the Bush party line on Osama and Afghanistan as if it's gospel (and I'm not claiming it ISN'T), but in the next breath tell us all what a liar/idiot Bush and his entire administration is when it comes to many other aspects of the job.
Don't you find this interesting? I do...
the idiotic part was to go into Iraq as we did.
AFG was obviously never settled and I suspect never will be.
The whole deal in both places will be a waste given enough time.
He isn't an idiot , just mistaken and hubristic in the extreme , but that's common back in the day.
After alll ,we are special , we won the cold war, we can do most anything we want to and all else be dammned.
we will see, many have gone down that road , none have returned so far.
OTM Al
09-17-2008, 03:57 PM
I just find it interesting how some of the most ardent Bush haters (I'm not claiming you are in this category, I have no idea) parrot the Bush party line on Osama and Afghanistan as if it's gospel (and I'm not claiming it ISN'T), but in the next breath tell us all what a liar/idiot Bush and his entire administration is when it comes to many other aspects of the job.
Don't you find this interesting? I do...
You are right that many do that. It is very interesting to me in that it shows just how deep the discontent of some has become. For many they are just parroting what whoever on their "team" said before.
I don't hate Mr. Bush. I don't think he's very competant at his job and do feel that history will in time rate him as one of the worst presidents ever. However, by all accounts he's a decent and caring person and I believe that he does things because he thinks they are right. I'd like to think I'm enough of a person to be able to disagree with what someone does without hating him for it. I called him "king" in response to those who seem to think he is always speaking divine truth, not for anything he himself has done.
Like I said though, the info on bin Laden came from our intelligence community. That's several very big organizations and despite what some tin hatters may believe, secrets like that cannot be conceled. Someone would talk. The truth will always come out. I believe that he was behind the attacks. As for the reasons why we attacked Iraq, as I said, the truth came out. We knew pretty quickly what we were originally told just wasn't true. Because one tells the truth once doesn't mean they will always be truthful, not is the reverse true. Every case must be judged on its own merits.
46zilzal
09-17-2008, 04:11 PM
Y
I don't hate Mr. Bush. I don't think he's very competant at his job and do feel that history will in time rate him as one of the worst presidents ever. However, by all accounts he's a decent and caring person and I believe that he does things because he thinks they are right. I'd like to think I'm enough of a person to be able to disagree with what someone does without hating him for it. I called him "king" in response to those who seem to think he is always speaking divine truth, not for anything he himself has done.
He remains, as he has since day one, an incompetent fool
You are right that many do that. It is very interesting to me in that it shows just how deep the discontent of some has become. For many they are just parroting what whoever on their "team" said before.
I don't hate Mr. Bush. I don't think he's very competant at his job and do feel that history will in time rate him as one of the worst presidents ever. However, by all accounts he's a decent and caring person and I believe that he does things because he thinks they are right. I'd like to think I'm enough of a person to be able to disagree with what someone does without hating him for it. I called him "king" in response to those who seem to think he is always speaking divine truth, not for anything he himself has done.
Like I said though, the info on bin Laden came from our intelligence community. That's several very big organizations and despite what some tin hatters may believe, secrets like that cannot be conceled. Someone would talk. The truth will always come out. I believe that he was behind the attacks. As for the reasons why we attacked Iraq, as I said, the truth came out. We knew pretty quickly what we were originally told just wasn't true. Because one tells the truth once doesn't mean they will always be truthful, not is the reverse true. Every case must be judged on its own merits.
unless they were photshopped , we had REAL LIVE HONEST TO GOD pics of the training camps and the people in them from AFG.
we had people in AFG who were on our side FIGHTING AQ bin laden.
we had reporters(all fake I guess , damn libs inducing war it seems) doing interviews and road show docs from there.
and on and on.
I am sorry I must have missed the same from Iraq, maybe they are holding those back for the Bush library?
:rolleyes:
bigmack
09-17-2008, 04:22 PM
He remains, as he has since day one, an incompetent fool
You might want to dial into what Al said here:
I'm enough of a person to be able to disagree with what someone does without hating him for it.
Being the Taoist you are :rolleyes: Hating is at odds with your teachings.
Release the hate.
OTM Al
09-17-2008, 04:24 PM
Seriously. :)
Secretariat
09-20-2008, 01:03 AM
Wonder how this poll would have been after this week.
PaceAdvantage
09-20-2008, 02:12 AM
Why would it be any different? The market ended exactly where it began, if that's what you're implying.
Let's face some reality here. Do you actually believe that Lehman going under, or Merrill being bought out or AIG being bailed out impacts the average American in any sort of tangible manner?
Why would it be any different? The market ended exactly where it began, if that's what you're implying.
Let's face some reality here. Do you actually believe that Lehman going under, or Merrill being bought out or AIG being bailed out impacts the average American in any sort of tangible manner?
Pa, you say the funniest things smetimes :lol:
You said "let's face some reality here"
there isn't an icon for that one.
Secretariat
09-20-2008, 10:35 AM
Let's face some reality here. Do you actually believe that Lehman going under, or Merrill being bought out or AIG being bailed out impacts the average American in any sort of tangible manner?
Are you serious or was this a joke?
wonatthewire1
09-20-2008, 03:20 PM
Why would it be any different? The market ended exactly where it began, if that's what you're implying.
Let's face some reality here. Do you actually believe that Lehman going under, or Merrill being bought out or AIG being bailed out impacts the average American in any sort of tangible manner?
Yep, and even with a little inflation - there are many that have lost money even if it stayed "the same as it started" eight years ago
:faint:
Don't worry, if you live a long life, the bill will come due - and the "middle class" is going to be payin' for it. Not us rich guys - if our dude McCain gets in, I'll get another $8,000 cut from my taxes. The "average American" is going to pay for it, perhaps you are too young to have been paying for the govt bailout of the rich S&L dudes...
:lol:
PaceAdvantage
09-21-2008, 08:03 PM
Are you serious or was this a joke?Oh, I'm deadly serious. How is Lehman Brothers going out of business really going to impact the day-to-day lives of Mr. and Mrs. Middle America?
How is Merrill Lynch being purchased by Bank of America going to affect Joe Q. Public? The average guy walking down the street in Muncie Indiana?
Please, tell me. Enlighten me. Educate me!
Higher taxes? Inflation? Is that the answer?
PaceAdvantage
09-21-2008, 08:03 PM
Don't worry, if you live a long life, the bill will come due - and the "middle class" is going to be payin' for it. Not us rich guys - if our dude McCain gets in, I'll get another $8,000 cut from my taxes. The "average American" is going to pay for it, perhaps you are too young to have been paying for the govt bailout of the rich S&L dudes...
:lol:Your sarcasm is becoming useless.
robert99
09-22-2008, 02:08 PM
Oh, I'm deadly serious. How is Lehman Brothers going out of business really going to impact the day-to-day lives of Mr. and Mrs. Middle America?
How is Merrill Lynch being purchased by Bank of America going to affect Joe Q. Public? The average guy walking down the street in Muncie Indiana?
Please, tell me. Enlighten me. Educate me!
Higher taxes? Inflation? Is that the answer?
The precise effect is unknown and diverse - it may have hidden benefits as well as the obvious loss in confidence that kills trade and expansion. These single companies are enmeshed over the wider economy - survivors know they might easily be next.
There are many creditors of these companies that are going to lose out all over US. Service jobs that they bought, from dog walking, caterers, restaurants to computer network servicing gradually disappear. Survivors will go 100% to restore cash and reserves into balance sheets - less business travel, new office furniture, computers etc - more jobs (but not extra workers) taken back in house.
Pension funds invested in these outfits will effect what people about to retire get paid - similar problem with college funds. US loses investment banks that were supposedly at one time to invest more adventurously in the future growth of real companies - replaced by ultra risk averse possibly tighter regulated traditional banks. So the growth in jobs that middle America needs may be reduced in scope. Mortgage rates will certainly rise as middle America is one of the few remaining soft targets to obtain cash. Mortgages for young people will dry up as risk avoidance becomes excessive. Local businesses will struggle to get loans to expand or invest in new technology - if uncompetitive they close. More companies will be foreign owned and people may not like their new bosses, lack of promotion and profits going out of USA. Inflation will likely grow if home production is stilted by lack of funds and the dollar falls to pay for the overseas funds used for the bail-outs or FED rate cut towards zero. Higher taxes less likely as political suicide in such conditions and the economy needs people to spend again.
A hedge fund manager neighbour told me that for the first time in his career he has absolutely no idea what is going to happen.
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