Here's a question about religion....

[PaceAdvantage]

Has religion become more or less popular in the United States? And if it has become less popular, has our country become a better or worse place because of this declining popularity?

My take is that religion has become less popular, and that the U.S. has become a worse place because of this phenomenon.

What say you?

[wonatthewire1]

Has religion become more or less popular in the United States? And if it has become less popular, has our country become a better or worse place because of this declining popularity?

My take is that religion has become less popular, and that the U.S. has become a worse place because of this phenomenon.

What say you?

Sad, but gotta agree - less popular and worse place. Seems like there is little morality unless one gets caught, then everyone gets moral on ya! If getting away with it - no problem.

Though there are some churches that are thriving - up on the highway a bit from here. Will have to see what they are about...noticed this on Sunday morning this week.

[equicom]

I see it totally the other way. Religion is on a roll. Sure morality has taken a dive, but that's because so many of the religious leaders are ammoral and so many get caught.

Church has a lot of power. It also depends where you are in the country. Somewhere like Southern California is going to have a very different moral and religious climate to Connecticut or Vermont, and those places are going to be different to Florida or Louisiana.

[Dave Schwartz]

IMHO, both sides are true.

Religion is less popular in the sense that there are more people speaking against it and trying to remove it completely.

However, the people who have embraced religion have embraced it more fervently than ever.

I guess you could say that religion has become more polarized - like politics.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[chickenhead]

I don't know about religion increasing or decreasing, but anecdotally things are going well for the people in my world.

[wonatthewire1]

IMHO, both sides are true.

Religion is less popular in the sense that there are more people speaking against it and trying to remove it completely.

However, the people who have embraced religion have embraced it more fervently than ever.

I guess you could say that religion has become more polarized - like politics.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Perhaps Religion Up and Spirituality Down?

Maybe plenty of people going to church but not really practicing.

[Cangamble]

Has religion become more or less popular in the United States? And if it has become less popular, has our country become a better or worse place because of this declining popularity?

My take is that religion has become less popular, and that the U.S. has become a worse place because of this phenomenon.

What say you?
What do you mean by worse place? That is very subjective.
Religion has become less popular in Canada, and Canada is a better place because of it.........again........to me.

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess I'm basically talking about how people treat one another. Morality. A general sense of kindness. Respect of other people's property. Manners. All sorts of little things that seem to have gone by the wayside.

Yes, it's a very subjective question, as it ought to be....

[wonatthewire1]

I guess I'm basically talking about how people treat one another. Morality. A general sense of kindness. Respect of other people's property. Manners. All sorts of little things that seem to have gone by the wayside.

Yes, it's a very subjective question, as it ought to be....


I've noticed that whenever I say "excuse me" when walking by someone, holding a door open for someone else or saying "thank you" gets me some strange looks sometimes - usually people are rather nice in return...

[MONEY]

I believe that in general the disbelief in god is directly associated with the acquisition of wealth and other assets. The more that people have, the more likely they are to join the ranks of the atheist, scientologist, wiccans and other godless groups.

money

[canleakid]

"Has religion become more or less popular in the United States? And if it has become less popular, has our country become a better or worse place because of this declining popularity?"

IMHO, LESS POPULAR!!!!! WE ASK MORE QUESTIONS, HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THINGS, OUR KNOWLEDGE OF THINGS ARE GROWING AND GROWING. RELIGION IS NOW MORE A THING OF FAITH, INSTEAD OF A WAY OF LIFE (WHO REALLY BELIVES AND PRACTISES WHAT WE HAVE BE TAUGHT??) JUST READ THE MANY COMMENTS WE BLOG ABOUT, THE HELL WITH THIS AND THAT, RED OR BLUE STATE, JOE OR SARAH, AND SO ON.
ARE WE A BETTER OR WORSE PLACE BECAUS OF THIS DECLINE? HELL WE HAVE BEEN HATING AND KILLING EACH OTHER IN THE NAME OF GOD FOREVER :eek: :eek: AND IT WILL GO ON!!!!!!! :( JMHO. Marty

[Cangamble]

I believe that in general the disbelief in god is directly associated with the acquisition of wealth and other assets. The more that people have, the more likely they are to join the ranks of the atheist, scientologist, wiccans and other godless groups.

money

What about all those rich televangelists? Are you saying they don't really believe?

[Cangamble]

I guess I'm basically talking about how people treat one another. Morality. A general sense of kindness. Respect of other people's property. Manners. All sorts of little things that seem to have gone by the wayside.

Yes, it's a very subjective question, as it ought to be....
Lets not forget how ungentle and unkind the homosexual community is treated by religious Fundamentalists.

[chickenhead]

I think it's one of those things that your own personal approach has a large impact on. If you're kind and respectful, a lot of other people are kind and respectful in return. And if you think people are kind and respectful, you'll find more people are kind and respectful. Or at least enough not to get bothered very often.

I guess it's a roundabout way of saying..I don't know if things are better or worse than at some other time, but overall they seem good to me. But, I know it's partially a decision I've made to see it that way.

[PaceAdvantage]

Lets not forget how ungentle and unkind the homosexual community is treated by religious Fundamentalists.As Reagan once said "There you go again!"

Is it against the rules to talk in generalities? Why must every thread devolve into a specific attack on a specific subgroup?

I'm not a fundamentalist and I don't know anyone who is....next...

[Cangamble]

As Reagan once said "There you go again!"

Is it against the rules to talk in generalities? Why must every thread devolve into a specific attack on a specific subgroup?

I'm not a fundamentalist and I don't know anyone who is....next...
I didn't say you were. But many in the US especially are, and it is mostly the regular churchgoers who have issues against abortion and homosexuals, and it stems from their belief in a literal bible and an ignorance of biology.

For the record, I'm pro-choice, but I doubt I would ever choose an abortion if I had a say in it unless there were extreme circumstances having to do with it.

[Dave Schwartz]

Perhaps Religion Up and Spirituality Down?

Maybe plenty of people going to church but not really practicing.

I'd say that there are more churches being less spiritual and more people being more spiritual.

How's that? <G>

Dave

[Cangamble]

I think it's one of those things that your own personal approach has a large impact on. If you're kind and respectful, a lot of other people are kind and respectful in return. And if you think people are kind and respectful, you'll find more people are kind and respectful. Or at least enough not to get bothered very often.


That is something that is hardwired in us. Religion and non religion is totally at arms length with our innate feelings of guilt and empathy. It is something that goes with being a successful social animal that made it through the ages.

In other words, we don't need to learn in a place of worship to hold the door open for an old lady.

[bigmack]

Lets not forget how ungentle and unkind the homosexual community is treated by religious Fundamentalists.
You'd save yourself from posting the same theme as you've done in your last 30 postings by simply putting "I think all religion is a bunch of bunk" in your signature. Same effect, less typing.
____________________

Whatever this current generation of punks is called, Nexters or whatchamacallit, are dropping religion like flies. 8 years ago 10% had no religious beliefs, now it's 20%.

I think spiritual/religious adherence within a society has a beneficial effect.
If we are worse off as a result of diminished numbers of people being involved in religion, the adverse effect is minimal.

[RaceBookJoe]

Has religion become more or less popular in the United States? And if it has become less popular, has our country become a better or worse place because of this declining popularity?

My take is that religion has become less popular, and that the U.S. has become a worse place because of this phenomenon.

What say you?

I will answer the second part first, the world has definately become a worse/more evil place....it usually takes until after the weather before you hear anything good on the local news. I feel religion, or at least some religions have become popular, but for a lot of people it is just for a symbol and not because of true faith. There are people who start out with good intentions, but fall away...either because the newness rubbed off, they didnt have good learning or they didnt have true faith to begin with. The biggest problem with religion is incorrect teaching/learning to me, not to mention the 'wolves in sheeps clothes'. rbj

[Tom]

You'd save yourself from posting the same theme as you've done in your last 30 postings by simply putting "I think all religion is a bunch of bunk" in your signature. Same effect, less typing.
____________________



Hereafter known as simply a :9::13:

I think religion is a popular as ever, but it is just the the denial of religion is definately on the agenda of the new left. They are forcing the issues that touch religion to the news for attack with purpose. People of religion are not taking it any more and are fighting back. Religion is a very personal thing, a family thing. One need only read off topics to see that agenda in operation.

But on a personal level, I see no decline, and I do not agree our nation is feeling any instant karma for it. We are not the worse for anything - we are standing up for our values and no longer prentending that the new left is our "worthy opponent" and backing off. I see this conflict as 100% a good thing. Like Chickenhead, my world is doing just fine. As long we hold our values and beliefs, we have nothing to worry about.

[Cangamble]

You'd save yourself from posting the same theme as you've done in your last 30 postings by simply putting "I think all religion is a bunch of bunk" in your signature. Same effect, less typing.
____________________

Whatever this current generation of punks is called, Nexters or whatchamacallit, are dropping religion like flies. 8 years ago 10% had no religious beliefs, now it's 20%.

I think spiritual/religious adherence within a society has a beneficial effect.
If we are worse off as a result of diminished numbers of people being involved in religion, the adverse effect is minimal.

My statement about homosexuals was not a knock against all religions and believers. It was against Fundamentalists who try to impose their particular beliefs on others, not only that, they show extreme prejudice against people who happen to be born gay.

Most human beings fully support gay rights and gay marriages, and most human beings believe in God. It is just the Fundamentalists, especially the reality deniers who need to be marginalized.

Yes, less and less people are going to places of worship. I do think the internet and science shows on TV and science taught in school as caused a lot of this, as facts contradict much specific religious belief.

In Canada today, 23% are now atheist.
And it is a pretty good place to live. Actually, I saw a survey recently, and there tends to be a correlation with lack of religion with higher standards of living and less crime.
I think Japan came in first. Canada was in the top 10.

[bigmack]

Actually, I saw a survey recently, and there tends to be a correlation with lack of religion with higher standards of living and less crime.

You might be hard pressed to pony up any viable data on that little ditty.

On a broader scale, I have to agree with Mr. T when he posted: Religion is a very personal thing, a family thing.

I have interest in a healthy debate on issues such as this but I suspect I'm not alone in having little interest when one poster drills a point to the ground.

Truth can be ofttimes be found in the nuances of issues. Extreme fundamentalists think Darwinists are crackers and extreme Darwinists think ALL religion is nefarious. They're both wrong.

Open your mind to the possibilities. It sounds like you've positionally boxed yourself in a corner with a black & white stance.

[Boris]

It was against Fundamentalists who try to impose their particular beliefs on others

You must realize you ARE DOING THE SAME EFFIN THING! STFU already.

[Cangamble]

You must realize you ARE DOING THE SAME EFFIN THING! STFU already.
Boris, put me on ignore. You haven't added one thing to any discussion I've had here. You are just trolling me, and it looks very bad on you.

[Cangamble]

You might be hard pressed to pony up any viable data on that little ditty.

On a broader scale, I have to agree with Mr. T when he posted: Religion is a very personal thing, a family thing.

I have interest in a healthy debate on issues such as this but I suspect I'm not alone in having little interest when one poster drills a point to the ground.

Truth can be ofttimes be found in the nuances of issues. Extreme fundamentalists think Darwinists are crackers and extreme Darwinists think ALL religion is nefarious. They're both wrong.

Open your mind to the possibilities. It sounds like you've positionally boxed yourself in a corner with a black & white stance.
Atheists/agnostics by country:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
Sweden 8,986,000 46 - 85% 4,133,560 - 7,638,100 Vietnam 82,690,000 81% 66,978,900 Denmark 5,413,000 43 - 80% 2,327,590 - 4,330,400 Norway 4,575,000 31 - 72% 1,418,250 - 3,294,000 Japan 127,333,000 64 - 65% 81,493,120 - 82,766,450 Czech Republic 10,246,100 54 - 61% 5,328,940 - 6,250,121 Finland 5,215,000 28 - 60% 1,460,200 - 3,129,000 France 60,424,000 43 - 54% 25,982,320 - 32,628,960 South Korea 48,598,000 30 - 52% 14,579,400 - 25,270,960 Estonia 1,342,000 49% 657,580 Germany 82,425,000 41 - 49% 33,794,250 - 40,388,250 Russia 143,782,000 24 - 48% 34,507,680 - 69,015,360 Hungary 10,032,000 32 - 46% 3,210,240 - 4,614,720 Netherlands 16,318,000 39 - 44% 6,364,020 - 7,179,920 Britain 60,271,000 31 - 44% 18,684,010 - 26,519,240 Belgium 10,348,000 42 - 43% 4,346,160 - 4,449,640 Bulgaria 7,518,000 34 - 40% 2,556,120 - 3,007,200 Slovenia 2,011,000 35 - 38% 703,850 - 764,180 Israel 6,199,000 15 - 37% 929,850 - 2,293,630 Canada 32,508,000 19 - 30% 6,176,520 - 9,752,400 Latvia 2,306,000 20 - 29% 461,200 - 668,740 Slovakia 5,424,000 10 - 28% 542,400 - 1,518,720 Switzerland 7,451,000 17 - 27% 1,266,670 - 2,011,770 Austria 8,175,000 18 - 26% 1,471,500 - 2,125,500 Australia 19,913,000 24 - 25% 4,779,120 - 4,978,250

Standard of Living Rankings
On the following table, green arrows (▲) represent an increase in ranking over the previous study, while red arrows (▼) represent a decrease in ranking. They are followed by the number of spaces they moved. Blue dashes (▬) represent a nation that did not move in the rankings since the previous study.




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Flag_of_Iceland.svg/22px-Flag_of_Iceland.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg) Iceland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland) 0.968 (▲)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Flag_of_Norway.svg/22px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Norway.svg) Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) 0.968 (▼)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Australia.svg) Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) 0.962 (▬)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Flag_of_Canada.svg/22px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Canada.svg) Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) 0.961 (▲ 2)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Flag_of_Ireland.svg/22px-Flag_of_Ireland.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Ireland.svg) Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland) 0.959 (▼ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Sweden.svg/22px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Sweden.svg) Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden) 0.956 (▼ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Switzerland.svg/17px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Switzerland.svg) Switzerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland) 0.955 (▲ 2)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Flag_of_Japan.svg/22px-Flag_of_Japan.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Japan.svg) Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) 0.953 (▼ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg) Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands) 0.953 (▲ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_France.svg) France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) 0.952 (▲ 6)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Flag_of_Finland.svg/22px-Flag_of_Finland.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Finland.svg) Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland) 0.952 (▬)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_United_States.svg) United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) 0.951 (▼ 9)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Spain.svg) Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) 0.949 (▲ 6)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Denmark.svg/22px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Denmark.svg) Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) 0.949 (▲ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Flag_of_Austria.svg/22px-Flag_of_Austria.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Austria.svg) Austria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria) 0.948 (▼ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg) Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium) 0.946 (▼ 4)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg) United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) 0.946 (▲ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Flag_of_Luxembourg.svg/22px-Flag_of_Luxembourg.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Luxembourg.svg) Luxembourg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg) 0.944 (▼ 6)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg/22px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg) New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand) 0.943 (▲ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Italy.svg) Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) 0.941 (▼ 3)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Flag_of_Hong_Kong.svg/22px-Flag_of_Hong_Kong.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Hong_Kong.svg) Hong Kong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong) 0.937 (▲ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Flag_of_Germany.svg/22px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Germany.svg) Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) 0.935 (▼ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/22px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Israel.svg) Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) 0.932 (▬)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Greece.svg/22px-Flag_of_Greece.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Greece.svg) Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece) 0.926 (▬)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Flag_of_Singapore.svg/22px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Singapore.svg) Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore) 0.922 (▬)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Flag_of_South_Korea.svg/22px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_South_Korea.svg) South Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea) 0.921 (▬)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Flag_of_Slovenia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Slovenia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Slovenia.svg) Slovenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia) 0.917 (▬)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Cyprus.svg/22px-Flag_of_Cyprus.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Cyprus.svg) Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus) 0.903 (▲ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Portugal.svg/22px-Flag_of_Portugal.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Portugal.svg) Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal) 0.897 (▼ 1)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Brunei.svg/22px-Flag_of_Brunei.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Brunei.svg) Brunei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunei) 0.894 (▲ 4)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Are religious countries better off than secular ones?
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/10/11/better-off-without-him/#more-954
“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion … None of the strongly secularized, pro-evolution democracies is experiencing high levels of measurable dysfunction.” Within the United States “the strongly theistic, anti-evolution South and Midwest” have “markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the Northeast where … secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms”.

[46zilzal]

interesting correlation

[bigmack]

RE: Your postWhile I am no statistician I feel confident saying that your data is poppycock. Taking two disperate figures and assigning a correlation between the two is a technique best left to "documentarians" like Michael Moore.


Again, we get it. You're not wild about religion and believe it's nefarious. Next?

[riskman]

I am reminded of the old joke about the high school that issued a boy a condom, and expelled him when he was discovered praying for a chance to use it. :)

We can note the decline of even non-religious contemplation of such matters as meaning and purpose, right and wrong, ultimate good, and so on. It is not that people behave worse without faith, but that they cannot explain why they do not. The use of the sciences as a substitute for belief in God or gods has produced a religion that cannot ask the questions central to religion.

Any account of reality must see the real world as one of universal laws of physics, beauty and ethics. Value and beauty are everywhere. Behind the scientific order is the mind of the Creator; behind the beauty we see the Creator's joy in creation; behind our intuitions of morality is the discernment of the good and perfect will of the Creator. Thats my take.

[dav4463]

It was a better place when:

Schools had prayer.

Kids said the Pledge of Allegiance to start the day. (in English)

Schools were allowed to whip kids who broke rules.

Kids were taught to respect the police, their teacher, principal, the president, etc......There is a lack of respect for authority today.

[Cangamble]

While I am no statistician I feel confident saying that your data is poppycock. Taking two disperate figures and assigning a correlation between the two is a technique best left to "documentarians" like Michael Moore.


Again, we get it. You're not wild about religion and believe it's nefarious. Next?
Is it poppycock about the stats on STD's etc. in the most religious states of the US? Isn't this thread about "has lack of religion made the US a better or worse place" ?

I'll say something good about religion now. Religion makes certain people think they have a reason to be good, so some religious people appear to be better people than they normally would without it.

Secondly, religious people tend to live longer. Perhaps believing in prayer or people are praying for you prolong one's life or get them through some serious illness. Mind over matter stuff.

It also could be that religious people tend to have larger families, and when something like a heart attack occurs, there is someone in the home more often who can get the heart attack victim to a hospital in time to save them. Again, this is speculation, but I think it might help the averages out.

I've seen surveys that state that religious people are slightly happier than non religious ones. But since happiness is very subjective, it is hard to give this one big merit. Besides, drug addicts are probably the happiest people in the world when they are on their high.

[Cangamble]

Riskman, I know why we act "morally." It is because it is innate in us, and was necessary behavior for any social animal to survive.
There is no need to behave good in the eyes of a supreme being, we collectively behave good because it is in our nature.
We have evolved two things that make us generally good people, guilt and empathy. These things don't have to be taught to us. We've seen guilty looks on very young children before they could even learn the concept of God, and when a mother is crying, the same child tends to get upset as well.

If you want to say that a supreme being wanted us to turn out that way, and planted that behavior in us, I'm OK with that....that is a faith thingy.

[MONEY]

What about all those rich televangelists? Are you saying they don't really believe?
Why would you take my statement and turn it into something that you know that I didn't mean. Nowhere did I say that all people of means don't believe in god. I just stated that of the people that are godless, a large percentage of them tend to be people that have more stuff than others.

money

[Cangamble]

Why would you take my statement and turn it into something that you know that I didn't mean. Nowhere did I say that all people of means don't believe in god. I just stated that of the people that are godless, a large percentage of them tend to be people that have more stuff than others.

money
It was a joke. Maybe I should have put a smiley there.
But seriously, are you saying that accumulation of wealth is a bad thing, and do you have any data to back you up.
Lots of Godless people are leftist socialist moonbat types.

[MONEY]

Lots of Godless people are leftist socialist moonbat types.
You could have written, Movie stars and their followers.
I don't have stats but through experience with people from all walks of life I came up with my reasonable conclusion about disbelief and money.
Read the paragraphs right after the heading
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION
What Americans Believe about Life after Death (http://www.aarp.org/family/lifeafterloss/articles/life_after_death.html)

money

[Cangamble]

You could have written, Movie stars and their followers.
I don't have stats but through experience with people from all walks of life I came up with my reasonable conclusion about disbelief and money.
Read the paragraphs right after the heading
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION
What Americans Believe about Life after Death (http://www.aarp.org/family/lifeafterloss/articles/life_after_death.html)

money
The correlation of education versus belief in heaven may explain it. The more a person is educated, the more money they make collectively.
The more a person is educated, the more they tend to not be believers collectively.

Almost all illiterates believe. That doesn't mean that all believers are illiterates, though I have a story related to this type of correlation.

My father was a 2 and a half pack a day smoker. He retired around 60. He saw something on CNN, a story that stated that 90% (or something like that) of illiterates smoke. That was the reason he quit cold turkey.

He lasted another 13 years as a non smoker, but it was all those years of smoking that most probably was the main cause for his death 7 years ago, at age 73.

[boxcar]

Perhaps Religion Up and Spirituality Down?

Maybe plenty of people going to church but not really practicing.

Ahh...too busy warming the pews rather than walking the talk.

Boxcar

[equicom]

PA was right. It really should not be an issue what you believe, but how you act toward each other.

Even Jesus himself is quoted saying:

Not everyone that saith unto me "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he that doeth my will.

In other words, actions are the more important thing, and that by acting in a way that is in accordance with faith (even if you do not have that faith) then you are elevated above the one who has faith but does not act.

This same theme is recurrent throughout the bible. Many people think that they can be saved by faith alone, but unfortunately if what is written in the book is correct, then they are misguided.

Even if you do not believe in God, or don't care about the salvation of your soul, this does not mean that you should not act toward others in the same manner that you should if you did have faith. You should act with kindness and charity toward others because it is the right thing to do, not because you were told to, or because you're hoping to get some reward out of it for yourself.

Jesus one commandment was to love one another, and it is impossible to be in true faith without also loving. Therefore if you regard yourself as being a man of faith but you hate homosexuals, atheists, criminals, muslims, hindus, or senators, then you are not truly in a state of faith and consequently a hypocrite.

[delayjf]

not only that, they show extreme prejudice against people who happen to be born gay. I know a lot of people like to buy into the “my genes made me do it” theory, I can just about imagine my wife’s response if I were to tell her she should not judge me for my multitude of affairs as “I’m just a victim of my male genes”

Why should Christians set on the side lines and allow a small minority to impose their morality on the majority? Most could careless what gays do in the privacy of their homes, but draw the line when they go public with their sexual preference and expect status based on that sexual preference.

Most human beings fully support gay rights and gay marriages,
Disagree, IMHO most Americans are tolerating of Gays – but, there’s a difference between tolerating and accepting homosexuality behavior as being on a moral par with heterosexuality. (i.e) I know of no Parent who hopes their children grow up to be gay.

[46zilzal]

Why should Christians set on the side lines and allow a small minority to impose their morality on the majority? Most could careless what gays do in the privacy of their homes, but draw the line when they go public with their sexual preference and expect status based on that sexual preference.


.

They don't IMPOSE a standard on the majority and never have. You would be very surprised to find out how many people HIDE the fact to most of their friends.

[delayjf]

Disagree,
The Gay rights movement is about social acceptance, here is California the Gay rights movement is lobbying for a gay pride day in public schools in grades K-12, they have also lobbied for mandatory gay studies in public schools. Don't tell me this only about wanting to live their lives as they see fit. Tell me, why are gays and gay right advocates attempting to infiltrate almost every major church and advocating changes to current Church practices to allow gay marriages and gay clergy - they could easily start their own church.

[Cangamble]

Yeah, people choose to be gay, like people choose to be midgets.

[bigmack]

Yeah, people choose to be gay, like people choose to be midgets.
That's right, just like Richardson said.

eB8bW4vDaOk

[MONEY]

Yeah, people choose to be gay, like people choose to be midgets.
I feel that both heterosexualality and homosexualality are both learned behaviors. Babies have no desire or need for sex, so being born either straight or otherwise does'nt make sense.

Now from a man's point of view I can't understand why anybody would want to have sex with a man, but I can fully understand the desire to bed women.

money

[Cangamble]

I feel that both heterosexualality and homosexualality are both learned behaviors. Babies have no desire or need for sex, so being born either straight or otherwise does'nt make sense.

Now from a man's point of view I can't understand why anybody would want to have sex with a man, but I can fully understand the desire to bed women.

money
I can't understand why a guy would want to bed a guy either, which means it is most likely mostly genetic, and scientific evidence has backed this up.

[RaceBookJoe]

I can't understand why a guy would want to bed a guy either, which means it is most likely mostly genetic, and scientific evidence has backed this up.

So is that evolution,mutation,devolution or something else? To keep this on topic guess is that it is not religion or God-created but possibly sin-created. rbj

[Cangamble]

Money, watch this. It is extremely interesting, especially the last few minutes of it (8 minute video in total):
_Osw05HGe5I

[Cangamble]

So is that evolution,mutation,devolution or something else? To keep this on topic guess is that it is not religion or God-created but possibly sin-created. rbj
Watch the video I posted.

Sin?

[OTM Al]

I would say worse off for one reason only. Churches and synagoges (I know I spelled that wrong...) used to play a very large role in helping the poor and provided a support system to help people get back on their feet. That just doesn't happen so much any more. Some churches simply can't afford to do it anymore and still serve their own flocks. Not exactly what Jesus said they should do, but understandable. Others seem too busy building their 3rd teletheatre to deal with the great unwashed. Sometimes I wonder if it was the church leaders who were the ones that wandered away, not the parishoners. Churches and religions can serve as great influences on communities, bringing them together for activites and socialization. However, so much rhetoric these days from some religious leaders seems way too polarizing and unwelcoming of anyone different and their flocks follow down their paths. I used to enjoy my time in church, but don't go anymore. It wasn't the message that drove me away, just the few people who felt themselves righteous. I'll keep my religion as a personal thing from here on out.

[boxcar]

They don't IMPOSE a standard on the majority and never have. You would be very surprised to find out how many people HIDE the fact to most of their friends.

Yeah, and you have the hard statistical evidence to tell us just how many, right? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I believe that in general the disbelief in god is directly associated with the acquisition of wealth and other assets. The more that people have, the more likely they are to join the ranks of the atheist, scientologist, wiccans and other godless groups.

money

Very good observation. Materialism plays a huge part in shaping society's moral compass.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

You must realize you ARE DOING THE SAME EFFIN THING! STFU already.

Leave him be. Religious bigots can't help themselves. Besides, it might be an inherited trait. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

Does every thread have to be taken way off track? This thread is NOT about homosexuals.


Thanks.

[equicom]

they have also lobbied for mandatory gay studies in public schools.

bwaahhahahahaha.... well that's one class where you'll want to make sure there's some rubber on the end of your pencil.

[boxcar]

bwaahhahahahaha.... well that's one class where you'll want to make sure there's some rubber on the end of your pencil.

But only when there's lead in the pencil to begin with.

Boxcar

[Suppositionist]

I would say religion has become less popular in this country but that most of the people who have come to reject religion were never truly religious in the first place so their rejection of religion likely has no discernable affect. In my opinion, there are very few true believers as it is, and most folks who participate in religion do so for various reasons but not because they truly believe. A truly religious, or perhaps more accurately, truly spiritual person, believes, or knows, that in addition to empirically and philosophically, religious or spiritual action is a third way of knowing and approaching this reality. That is, there are things that can only be known and or accomplished by human beings through divine knowledge and help. If this is not the case and anything that we think we have come to know or accomplish through divine help was actually possible and or accomplished without it, then all religions are fraudulent.

That being said, I also think that the internet provides a wealth spring of information about spiritual knowledge that was previously unavailable to the person with a casual interest, so while science is causing us to lose the pretenders and the merely superstitious, some branches of science (information technology) are helping to create more true believers. That’s not a bad thing.



S

[equicom]

There was a time when the vast majority of Americans were a proud and noble people. A nation of optimists with the courage to make a seemingly impossible dream become a reality.

Unfortunately since the invention of television (and perhaps to a lesser extent, radio) all that has slowly but surely changed, and so now the courageous American nobility has been eroded most alarmingly.

For proof of this, you only need to turn to the medium that possibly precipitated it: television. Programs such as Cops, Judge Judy, and (barf) Cheaters, will give you an idea of how Americans are starting to perceive themselves and the society around them. Not to mention that by exporting this kind of stuff, you're influencing the perceptions of people in other places.

Even the humble sitcom has evolved. Whereas once the humor was inherent in the situation (hence the name), this has now degraded to the point where most of the laughs are sought via snide remarks, cynical antagonism, and various acts of cheating and deception that occur between the main characters.

How about advertizing? In the old days, an ad for something like Dr. Pepper would have been mainly concerned with the substance itself, for example that it was "tasty" and "refreshing". Nowadays, such an ad would be all about how the product would add to your image, in other words it would attempt to appeal to vanity and status-conciousness.

Today, the ad is no longer about the product, it's all about you. Which, it seems, is exactly the way people like things to be. Vanity, all is vanity...

[Tom]

You are delusional, you know that?
What a bunch of hooey!

[equicom]

Again, Tom, this is a pointless and baseless attack. You need to specify exactly what it is that you're opposing.