Belmont Lost The Breeders Cup

[bane]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/46861.htm


Officials with Breeders’ Cup and Churchill Downs aren’t ready to confirm the 2010 World Championships will be held at the Kentucky racetrack.

Daily Racing Form reported Sept. 1 that Charlie Hayward, president and chief executive officer of the New York Racing Association, said he was told by Breeders’ Cup in July Belmont Park would not host the 2010 event after being told it would. Hayward suggested Churchill submitted a proposal, and Breeders’ Cup changed course without giving NYRA a chance to respond.

On Sept. 2, officials indicated no racetrack officially has the 2010 World Championships. This year and next, the event will be held at Oak Tree at Santa Anita Park in California.

“We’re considering multiple options for the 2010 Breeders’ Cup,” Breeders’ Cup spokesman Jim Gluckson said. “When we’re ready to make an announcement, we’ll do so at that time.”

Churchill, the 2006 host, couldn’t come to an agreement with Breeders’ Cup for subsequent years. But John Asher, vice president of communications for Churchill, indicated the track is interested—at the very least.

“Churchill Downs is eager for the opportunity to host the Breeders’ Cup World Championships in the near future, and our company has been talking with the Breeders’ Cup about a possible return of the event to our track,” Asher said. “The Breeders’ Cup is a great event for residents and businesses in our region, and a terrific event for our industry and Churchill Downs.

“But there has been no official announcement from the Breeders’ Cup regarding a site for the event in 2010, and Churchill Downs would be in no position to comment until there is formal word from the Breeders’ Cup on its decision.”

A Breeders’ Cup tax break adopted by the Kentucky General Assembly expired this year. There is a chance the state legislature could revisit it in 2009.

On Aug. 8, Breeders' Cup president Greg Avioli said there were "preliminary talks on the board level" as to a 2010 host site.

"Our goal is always to have at least a year of preparation," Avioli said at the time. "We hope to have a final agreement on 2010 prior to the end of this year."




Where would you guys prefer to have the BC at? And I hope nobody says some little track in Oceanport, NJ :-)

[foregoforever]

Where would you guys prefer to have the BC at? And I hope nobody says some little track in Oceanport, NJ :-)

Recast the BC into 3 consecutive Saturdays, with races at Santa Anita, Churchill and Belmont. Same locations each year.

[RichieP]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/46861.htm



Where would you guys prefer to have the BC at?

Beautiful Belmont Park. :jump:

[ghostyapper]

anywhere without poly

[richrosa]

Hialeah every year after Minor renovates the place. Early November is kinda nice in South Florida, and hurricane season is just about over. It would give that place some purpose. I'm sure its been talked about by the parties involved.

[Tom]

I think the BC has run its course and would not mind it just going away.
It has already diluted itself and now has rendered it's non-turf races moot for at least two years. Let's let the horses run multiple races at multiple tracks, like it used to be done. Now more win one race and you win an eclipse award nonsense.

[Bobzilla]

It would be interesting to know what Minor's feelings are about the type of racing surface most appropriate for Hialeah's main oval.

I would love to see Hialeah ressurected and used for the BC every three years. In the interest of geographical fairness I don't think it should be there every year.

[Bobzilla]

I think the BC has run its course and would not mind it just going away.
It has already diluted itself and now has rendered it's non-turf races moot for at least two years. Let's let the horses run multiple races at multiple tracks, like it used to be done. Now more win one race and you win an eclipse award nonsense.


Agreed. For the above reasons I won't be attending this year. I had attended 16 straight starting with the 1991 "Arazi-runs-right-by-him" BC at Churchill Downs. It was a fun streak my family had going. No more. Avioli, along with others, have ruined it.

[Zman179]

I think the BC has run its course and would not mind it just going away.
It has already diluted itself and now has rendered it's non-turf races moot for at least two years. Let's let the horses run multiple races at multiple tracks, like it used to be done. Now more win one race and you win an eclipse award nonsense.

I'm in complete agreement. :ThmbUp:

[RichieP]

I think the BC has run its course and would not mind it just going away.
It has already diluted itself and now has rendered it's non-turf races moot for at least two years. Let's let the horses run multiple races at multiple tracks, like it used to be done. Now more win one race and you win an eclipse award nonsense.

Agree 100% Tom.

Mr. Avioli and his aide could have done something very special for a group of folks down at Monmouth last year. Of course because they were not on millionaires row or flying in on a jet for the races they were bitch slapped. This group supported their Breeders Cup and Monmouth Park for decades.

So if the Breeder's Cup were to cease well........

:13:

[PaceAdvantage]

Given the fact that the connections of two of the top horses in training (Curlin and Proud Spell) have already declared they are skipping the BC because of the artificial surface, and given the fact that the BC seems hell-bent on propping up artificial surfaces with their choice of back-to-back Santa Anitas, it would seem that the BC might be quickly spinning itself out of the realm of relevance.

Add to that the dilution of the product, as Tom stated, and the preposterous renaming of the Distaff to the "Ladies' Classic" (last I checked, horses are not ladies, and if I were a lady, I'd be more than a bit alarmed).

Would anyone be comfortable if they renamed the BC Classic to the "Gentleman's Classic?"

This is indeed trying times for the BC.

[ghostyapper]

Given the fact that the connections of two of the top horses in training (Curlin and Proud Spell) have already declared they are skipping the BC because of the artificial surface.

Not so fast. Now Curlin's connections are considering the classic with a prep in the goodwood

http://drf.com/news/article/97879.html

[menifee]

Given the fact that the connections of two of the top horses in training (Curlin and Proud Spell) have already declared they are skipping the BC because of the artificial surface, and given the fact that the BC seems hell-bent on propping up artificial surfaces with their choice of back-to-back Santa Anitas, it would seem that the BC might be quickly spinning itself out of the realm of relevance.

Add to that the dilution of the product, as Tom stated, and the preposterous renaming of the Distaff to the "Ladies' Classic" (last I checked, horses are not ladies, and if I were a lady, I'd be more than a bit alarmed).

Would anyone be comfortable if they renamed the BC Classic to the "Gentleman's Classic?"

This is indeed trying times for the BC.

I'm not sure about Curlin skipping the Breeders' Cup. There is an article in the DRF indicating that the connections think it still might be a possibility. Even if he hates the surface, he could still win that race. The handicap division is so weak right now.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well then, this is certainly a change to their previously stated "No BC/AWS" stance.

[Buckeye]

problem is, 4 or 5 million ain't what it used to be.

The Breeders Cup was based upon offering a HUGE purse. Make it the 60 Million Dollar Breeder's Cup Classic and then see who shows up.

Right now the best horses in the World are "considering" whether or not to participate.

Tells me something . . .

Like raise the purse levels.

[Robert Fischer]

Obviously these guys put politics of the "event" well above regard to aesthetics and quality of the actual sport.

pick and choose

[swaps]

Hialeah every year after Minor renovates the place. Early November is kinda nice in South Florida, and hurricane season is just about over. It would give that place some purpose. I'm sure its been talked about by the parties involved.


Hialeah would be fantastic if it can be saved.
I'd be worried about hurricanes, though.

[Bobzilla]

Not so fast. Now Curlin's connections are considering the classic with a prep in the goodwood

http://drf.com/news/article/97879.html

I'm not at all surprised to read this. One can only imagine the intense pressure owners such as Jess Jackson and ex-Governor of the Commonwealth Brereton Jones are under form racing's own illuminatti, the Kentucky Blue-Bloods who comprise the Breders' Cup Board of Directors, to fall into lockstep and send their respective charges out west for this year's Breeders' Cup. By doing so they will be creating the appearence of an united front in regard to racing's determined move forward with the synthetic revolution. It's clear to see at this point that the Breeders' Cup has decidedly taken an activist role on the issue.

For many, the results will go a long way in deciding to what extent the two surfaces are interchangeable. I won't be convinced either way by what ever the results might end up being. Throughout racing's history there are many examples of class animals displaying an admirable surface ambidexterity to some degree, however, that's not to say they did not have a surface preference, or that they were expected to defend their legacy against the world's best on the least preferred. To those in the turf media and, to many in the general public, the results of the Classic will be the tell all in deciphering the hierarchical order of the world's best horses. That would hardly seem fair. Secretariat won on grass but I truly doubt his connections would have ran him in a turf event against the world's best turf horses in a race of such magnitude as to threaten his reputation and ultimately define his lasting legacy.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how Ian Pearse's Pro-Ride surface plays once they begin racing at Santa Anita in a few weeks. I think some owners are taking that approach before making any decisions. Maybe it will play more like conventional dirt than Tapeta, Cushion Track and Polytrack and the jockeys will ride it like so. Many of us aren't so much anti-synthetic as we're against the suggestion that the two surfaces are interchangeable. To date they're not. In my perfect world all major tracks would have the land and resources to have all three. It would make for a challenging race card. NYRA might actually end up doing this with Belmont.

[Robert Fischer]

with the heavy rains at monmouth and now two years of synthetic, we are in the heart of a stretch where surface handicapping is very important.

[cj's dad]

problem is, 4 or 5 million ain't what it used to be.

The Breeders Cup was based upon offering a HUGE purse. Make it the 60 Million Dollar Breeder's Cup Classic and then see who shows up.

Right now the best horses in the World are "considering" whether or not to participate.

Tells me something . . .

Like raise the purse levels.

Why not this - pay the winner of each race in the equivalent value of the country where they have raced the majority of their races. Running in UK ?? - pay in Pounds - Germany/France/Italy ?? - Euros etc...

See who comes then !


-

[bane]

Honestly The Breeders Cup just insn't the same....
They have not raised the purse money and added to many races, the only race that I would keep that is a recent add is The Mararthon. Granted I loved that the BC went to Lone Star but going there and Woodbine, and Monmouth isn't the way to go. It should be Belmont, Santa Anita, Churchill and I will say Arlington as well should be the only ones to do it. Keeneland should not have it, hell Keeneland shouldn't even have a race caller except for its out going signal! I will agree Keeneland needs to grow.. not to much fun with 36,000, even in the clubhouse.

I also think The Breeder Cup has poor mangement, there are no festivities like there use to be before the UN Handicap, Washington International and so on. It's not just about the horse in The BC, its about the racing fan and he should be given more then just a test of champions, its the Olympics of Horse Racing lets get some kind of show!

[cj's dad]

criticizing Keeneland? Hell, why not blast the Mona Lisa while you're at it?

[classhandicapper]

I guess I am in the minority. I love the Breeder's Cup.

I don't even mind the new races much.

I guess a case can be made that the sprint has been diluted. The best filly sprinters are often good enough to compete with the best male sprinters. But I don't think the Mile or any of the new more unique divisions are much of a problem. I suspect that the mile will be dominated by 7F/8F/9F horses that have already demonstrated that 10F against the best horses is not within their range and that they are too slow for the sprint.

The only problem I have is that I think the BC races are weighted too heavily in the Eclipse Awards. Even though they tend to be the deepest and toughest fields of the year, it gives too much credit to a horse that may have peaked at the right time instead of who was better all year long but is tailing off.

This synthetic surface issue is also obviously a fiasco. How can a synthetic race count for dirt divisions? I can see it counting towards horse of the year because versatility matters, but that's it.

[FlyinLate]

1) I don't mind that it is on a synthetic. I know it is the cause of Curlin and PS not running there, but there is obviously a future in synthetics, the facts need to be faced.
2) I think it is BS that they gave the same track the event two years in a row. One thing I like about the BC is the opportunity for everyone to witness it without flying halfway around the country. Living in Chicago I have Arlington and all Kentucky tracks in driving range to see it live.
3) Bring it back to Arlington :cool:

[sandpit]

I would vote for Belmont Park, only because the bigger turf course is better suited for the Euros, and I've always enjoyed figuring them into the handicapping puzzle.

Don't for a moment think that Churchill Downs current management won't switch to a synthetic surface. Steve Sexton has already met with officials of several key industry groups in Lexington to get their thoughts, suggestions, etc. as he moves forward with ruining one of the best racing surfaces in the country.

[Bobzilla]

I don't doubt for one second that Churchill Downs, as well as all major tracks nationwide, are looking seriously into the possibilities of replacing their current dirt surfaces with one of the AWS varieties. In fact, a move in that direction is probably a behind the scenes condition for further consideration of hosting the event. Two years at Santa Anita is the time the BC felt might be needed for CD and NYRA to comply. Industry officials have gone on record saying racing would be better served with uniformity across all tracks and that a move towards synthetics can help accomplish this end. Uniformity, why do I all of a sudden think of Veterans Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Three Rivers Stadium, cookie cutter National League ball parks that came into vogue during the seventies. Perhaps someday I'll start a thread with a poll asking fellow players if uniformity is really what a handicapper who truly enjoys a challenge wants across all the country's tracks. I don't doubt some would like it but there are many surface handicappers who might feel deprived of their best edge.

On a related front, did anyone else notice that not one horse broke down on the Saratoga Main track during afternoon racing this year? Obviously there is no way to know what happened during the morning hours so I can't speak to that. Not one racing related breakdown in six weeks of competitive racing on the main track is encouraging.

[OTM Al]

Yes, no breakdowns in the afternoon makes it a great year in and of itself though 2 horses were lost in racing related events. Nordberg suffered a heart attack and died on track and another horse flipped I believe in the paddock and had to be put down. NYRA tracks are pretty well maintained and afternoon breakdowns are not very frequent.

I personally wanted to go to SA this year, but the cost of getting out there on top of tickets (I want seats for something like this if I'm going to go) were just too much form me right now, so maybe next year, though I enter the contests everday to win tickets!

I will say that BC management is an absolute fiasco and holding a BC generally will cause a track to lose money as the BC takes over all your resources to run the thing and all you get in return is what they feel would have been your cut of the handle had the event not been there. making it 2 days hurts the track far worse than the consumer IMO. But darn it all I do love seeing all the best horses out there so I will keep watching even if I can't go.

[Tom]

I would definitely take CD off the list - why reward a track that screws the players day in and day out? They want to isolate themselves, fine.....just make it 100% isolation. CD doesn't deserve it.

[GARY Z]

AC HAS A GREAT TURF COURSE


(HARDLY EVER USED )

[toetoe]

I think Belmont is a great choice.

One other thought. If we could find a reasonable West Coast real-dirt venue, we might consider staging all turf races at Belmont Park, and all dirt heats at the track with the drier, almost guaranteed-rain-free clime. The problem is that no such venue exists. Even at Emerald Downs it can rain at the drop of a hat. :(

[toetoe]

Gary,

At first I thought you meant Agua Caliente. :D

[thespaah]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/46861.htm



Where would you guys prefer to have the BC at? And I hope nobody says some little track in Oceanport, NJ :-)no tracks with fake crap for a racing surface,
the BC should rotate between Belmont Churchill and whichever California track decides to tell the State Govt to stick it where the sun don't shine....
Even though I am origianlly from NJ and would like ot see Monmouth get another chance,, that facility is just not right for a BC ....
IMO the lustre has worn off the BC . The constant negotiating and wrangling with tracks. The exapnsion to 354 races (just kidding) two days..the BC is getting too big and the meaning of the event is diluted.
The BC is more about making big bucks for itself rather than promoting championship horse racing

[thespaah]

I don't doubt for one second that Churchill Downs, as well as all major tracks nationwide, are looking seriously into the possibilities of replacing their current dirt surfaces with one of the AWS varieties. In fact, a move in that direction is probably a behind the scenes condition for further consideration of hosting the event. Two years at Santa Anita is the time the BC felt might be needed for CD and NYRA to comply. Industry officials have gone on record saying racing would be better served with uniformity across all tracks and that a move towards synthetics can help accomplish this end. Uniformity, why do I all of a sudden think of Veterans Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Three Rivers Stadium, cookie cutter National League ball parks that came into vogue during the seventies. Perhaps someday I'll start a thread with a poll asking fellow players if uniformity is really what a handicapper who truly enjoys a challenge wants across all the country's tracks. I don't doubt some would like it but there are many surface handicappers who might feel deprived of their best edge.

On a related front, did anyone else notice that not one horse broke down on the Saratoga Main track during afternoon racing this year? Obviously there is no way to know what happened during the morning hours so I can't speak to that. Not one racing related breakdown in six weeks of competitive racing on the main track is encouraging.
The lack of breakdowns may be arttributed to excellent track maintenence and high quality racing stock.

[gm10]

The lack of breakdowns may be arttributed to excellent track maintenence and high quality racing stock.

As a European visitor, I would prefer Belmont or Gulfstream. Nothing to see in Louisville end of October. Monmouth was fun. Would have been great if the weather had been better.

[sandpit]

As a European visitor, I would prefer Belmont or Gulfstream. Nothing to see in Louisville end of October. Monmouth was fun. Would have been great if the weather had been better.

As a native Kentuckian, I should take offense at this comment, but instead I'll point out a few things that are all within a short drive of Churchill Downs. However, the comparison of New York and Miami to Louisville is not entirely valid, simply because of the size difference.
-Louisville has an excellent selection of restaurants, as good as any city I've ever been to except for New Orleans and San Francisco.
-Since the Bluegrass is the cradle of racing in the US, a trip to the many beautiful horse farms around Lexington is a must. Don't forget the Kentucky Horse Park,the world's greatest tribute to the equine athlete.
-If you want a different kind of athlete, go to a University of Kentucky football game, even if you don't like the sport, the coeds there are unbelieveably gorgeous. (I was there last weekend, awesome as ever)
-The museums in Louisville are top notch and fill every type of interest: Speed Art, Frazier International Arms, Muhammad Ali, Louisville Slugger...
-The city's park system was designed by the same person, Frederick Law Olmstead, who designed Central Park in New York.

I apologize if this is a little long or off topic.

[OTM Al]

I agree with sandpit. There's plenty to do in and around Louisville. Visiting the various horse farms should be more than enough for a racing fan. Perhaps it does not have the so called "high cultural events" that you can find in NYC, but being a resident of that city, I'd take visiting horses over the Opera any day :)

[Pace Cap'n]

Speed Art?

[eastie]

why o why does Santa Anita have it for 2 years in a row ? they should get ballsy and have it at Saratoga. I think that the weather would hold off for such a special occasion. If it's cold....so what....if it's muddy.....big deal. The biggest races should be at the best track, and Saratoga is the best.


p.s. phony turf racing stinks !

[Bobzilla]

The lack of breakdowns may be arttributed to excellent track maintenence and high quality racing stock.

I wouldn't disagree that in large part Saratoga's safe meet can be attributed to the combination of excellent track maintenance and high quality racing stock, though some might argue against the latter.

The majority of races conducted at Saratoga still involve younger and less raced animals still working their way through their conditions. Most haven't reached the other side of the hill when their tired bodies begin to degenerate and when they usually find themselves running for a cheap tag at a smaller track. Human abuses will often hasten that process.

It's interesting to note Tampa Bay Downs writes races covering much of the entire class spectrum and is regardrd by many horsemen to be a safe surface. Imagine that, conventional dirt safe, who would have believed it?

Casualty rates at different circuits, in my opinion, will tend to reflect the local culture of that circuit in regard to their respect for equine life; trainer practices; owner expectations; veterinary practices; claiming practices and track maintenance practices. I don't think it's as closely related to the inherent safety charcterisitcs of any one of the three types of racing surfaces currently being used in North America. An argument can be made that if the culture can't be changed then there really is no choice but to convert. A counter argument would be that synthetics are then being used as a smokescreen to hide the game's uglies and racing would be better served if we expose and attack the true causes.

I'm not sure what the best answer is but I do believe dirt racing can be safer than what we've seen. I also believe dirt racing and many of the great events which have historically been conducted on dirt are worth preserving. My sense is that racing wants to stear towards a "universal surface" and that safety is being used as a red herring so this revolution can take place before anyone really knows for real what's happening. I don't believe personally that this is in the best interest of racing.

[toetoe]

Bless you, Sandpit. If I could Siphon off 5% of your positivism, I would consider myself blessed. C'mon, people; are we not all Gentlemen on here ? Hey, in my newfound positive-thinking mode, I have my eye on a sub-border Cougar. Her Ibero will not be pleased, but what do I care ? Tizna or never, as Ema Bovary might say. The man's also a Criollito, to add a spice of, ahem, breeding to the affair.

Old news, but any progress on the big move of the Ali Museum ... into said Ali's own mouth ? You know, biggest space available ? :lol: Alas, Cassius the Brave had feet of clay. :bang:

[Rackon]

Speed Art?

Yup, the Speed Art Museum, a nice place indeed. I was just there last month - they're showing collection of 18th century paintings on loan from Yale.

While Louisville is not an arts center to rival London, Paris or NY, allow me to defend its cultural attractions. It's a city small enough to be easily navigable yet large enough to have points of interest. And it's far more affordable to visit than the above metropolises.

In addition to those highlights previously mentioned, the city boasts a fine symphony orchestra (Louisville Orchestra), opera (Kentucky Opera) and ballet company, and a truly world class theater company - Actor's Theater of Louisville, whose annual Humanna Festival of new placys and playwrights is world famous.

You can go antique shopping in Louisville or nearby Madison, Indiana; cruise on the Ohio River; gamble away your winnings on the Hoosier riverboats; hang out in various live music clubs (rock, blues, coutry or bluegrass) til the wee hours; dine well and reasonably; visit horse heaven only an hour away' delve into the many delights of the KY Derby Museum. But when do you really have time to do much of this during BC weekend??

Since Churchill Downs is a scant two hours from my doorstep, I would love to see it return to Louisville. CD knows how to put on major events like the Derby and BC.

[sandpit]

Bless you, Sandpit. If I could Siphon off 5% of your positivism, I would consider myself blessed.

Thanks; I'm gonna pass this message on to my own cougar, who thinks me too negative on occasion.

[sandpit]

Yup, the Speed Art Museum, a nice place indeed. I was just there last month - they're showing collection of 18th century paintings on loan from Yale.

While Louisville is not an arts center to rival London, Paris or NY, allow me to defend its cultural attractions. It's a city small enough to be easily navigable yet large enough to have points of interest. And it's far more affordable to visit than the above metropolises.


Thanks to everyone for their support of the city; I should have explained myself a little better on the Speed Art Museum. It was opened some 80 years ago by some wealthy locals with the stipulation that whoever is running it never charge admission...pretty cool to see over 10,000 works of art for free.

[Valuist]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/46861.htm



Where would you guys prefer to have the BC at? And I hope nobody says some little track in Oceanport, NJ :-)

I'd take that "little" track in Oceanport anyday over a 3rd straight year of carpet racing at the Breeders Cup. Its not Monmouth's fault they were hit by a deluge last year. I'm sure it was probably raining at Belmont Park that day as well.

[Bobzilla]

I'd take that "little" track in Oceanport anyday over a 3rd straight year of carpet racing at the Breeders Cup. Its not Monmouth's fault they were hit by a deluge last year. I'm sure it was probably raining at Belmont Park that day as well.

You're right, it was raining at Belmont that day. Last year was my 16th straight BC in attendence and I believe that given the circumstances Monmouth did as well as they could. It didn't just rain, it absolutely poured non-stop for two days.

I wish horseracing had the same clout as, say a NASCAR or PGA, as both the Daytona 500 and Masters would have been postponed under such weather conditions. The Breeders' Cup is locked in to time slots with no flexibility whatsoever. Does anybody know the reason why the BC cannot be moved to a Sunday, or even a Monday, if the weather is as extraordinarily bad as last year? Sponsers? Network planning? No clout? Inconvenience for patrons?

What was so maddening last year was the timing of the rain. Here in the northeast we had enjoyed beautiful weather for a good month leading up to the BC, gorgeous weather which was perfect for the world's best racing. But when it's time for the BC we have to have rains of biblical proportions. Hardly seemed fair.

[toetoe]

Yew hear dat, Cholly ? Da man's got 'is very own koogah at 'is domey sile, Cholly. Mrrrowrrr, Cholly. Katy baah da frig'n daw, Cholly.