Illinois Residents

[FlyinLate]

What do you guys use?
I currently use Bodog and Twinspires.
Bodog has a terrible interface, is down constantly, and has no features.
Twinspires has all my features and a nice interface but lacks rebates.

Just looking to try something new, preferably with a nice sign-up bonus.

[Photo Finish]

You have several problems to contend with. First; based on the standing Illinois Attorney General's opinion, ADW is illegal in Illinois. While I don't see her kicking your door down anytime soon; unless you have a Blago bumper sticker on your car, TwinSpires may not be so lucky. I wouldn't keep too much on account with them, and limit your holdings there to one days wagering just to be on the safe side. As broke as they are; if the state ever gets ahold of any more of your money, good luck getting any of it back.

Second; once you have chosen to break the law anyway however, while the technological features of the system or the benefits of the economic operating model are obviously important, what difference does it make if they are not carrying the content that you like to wager on?

While this may not be unique to Illinois, in order to have the opportunity to wager on decent content thoughout the year you need to have at least two, and as many as three accounts, and all of those systems will operate a little bit differently, and none of them will give you all of what you want on one platform.

[startngate]

You have several problems to contend with. First; based on the standing Illinois Attorney General's opinion, ADW is illegal in Illinois.Small point of dissent ....

An opinion of the attorney general's office does not have the effect of law. It is however generally regarded as a legal guideline unless overturned by a court or otherwise enacted by the governing body.

It is nothing more than exactly what it states ... an opinion.

If the opposite were true, the AG could go around making up any law he/she felt like making. That's not the way government works, in IL or any other State for that matter.

Could the AG charge the OP or TwinSpires? Sure she can try. Would she win? IMO, that's a longshot at best. There is no actual law on the books that says advance deposit wagering is illegal in IL, and in fact, the IL legislature has even taken up bills that would specifically make it legal. The U.S. Congress has amended the IHA to allow for advance deposit wagering since the opinion was issued. IL does allow for on-site account wagering and simulcasting of races from out-of-state. Sure there are arguments against, but there is a lot on the pro side to hang a hat on.

My guess is that since an IL racetrack licensee (Churchill Downs) is doing it, there would have been an attempt to shut it down if the AG's office really thought they would win. Most racing commissions have a representative of the AG's office advising them, so it can't be a lack of exposure to what's going on for an excuse.

I don't live in IL, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but the doom-and-gloom "it's illegal and I wouldn't leave any money with them" is a just little over the top. IL couldn't sieze any customer money anyway. TwinSpires is licensed in Oregon, and that license requires that customer funds be held in Oregon. IL couldn't touch it even if they wanted to.

Personally, I'd be much more worried about money held with any account betting company outside the U.S. I've seen too many of those companies disappear. I have no experience with BoDog, so I won't comment as to how safe they might be.

[Photo Finish]

Small point of dissent ....

An opinion of the attorney general's office does not have the effect of law. It is however generally regarded as a legal guideline unless overturned by a court or otherwise enacted by the governing body.

It is nothing more than exactly what it states ... an opinion.

If the opposite were true, the AG could go around making up any law he/she felt like making. That's not the way government works, in IL or any other State for that matter.

Could the AG charge the OP or TwinSpires? Sure she can try. Would she win? IMO, that's a longshot at best. There is no actual law on the books that says advance deposit wagering is illegal in IL, and in fact, the IL legislature has even taken up bills that would specifically make it legal. The U.S. Congress has amended the IHA to allow for advance deposit wagering since the opinion was issued. IL does allow for on-site account wagering and simulcasting of races from out-of-state. Sure there are arguments against, but there is a lot on the pro side to hang a hat on.

My guess is that since an IL racetrack licensee (Churchill Downs) is doing it, there would have been an attempt to shut it down if the AG's office really thought they would win. Most racing commissions have a representative of the AG's office advising them, so it can't be a lack of exposure to what's going on for an excuse.

I don't live in IL, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but the doom-and-gloom "it's illegal and I wouldn't leave any money with them" is a just little over the top. IL couldn't sieze any customer money anyway. TwinSpires is licensed in Oregon, and that license requires that customer funds be held in Oregon. IL couldn't touch it even if they wanted to.

Personally, I'd be much more worried about money held with any account betting company outside the U.S. I've seen too many of those companies disappear. I have no experience with BoDog, so I won't comment as to how safe they might be.

I don't have a dog in a fight here either; and at least part of my prior post was toungue in cheek, the subtlety of which is often difficult to discern in this medium. In support of at least part of what I previously referenced, I'll offer the following:




2/1/2008 - Daily Racing Form



{With the uncertainty of the legality of the practice, some account-wagering companies have quietly allowed Illinois residents to open accounts and place bets on horse racing, but no company has openly marketed its services in the state.

The only clear signal about the legality of account wagering in Illinois came in 2001, when the state's attorney general at the time, Jim Ryan, responding to a request from the Illinois Racing Board, issued a 21-page opinion asserting that account-wagering violated state law.

Scott Mulford, a spokesman for the present attorney general, Lisa Madigan, said Tuesday that because the state and federal laws examined in the 2001 paper had not changed, the opinion issued by Ryan was supported by Madigan. "The opinion speaks for itself," Mulford said. }

I understand and appreciate that the opinion of the prior AG is just that; an opinion. In this particular case however the opinion was issued based on a specific set of questions posed to him I believe by the Illinois Racing Board.

Absent specific stautory language that addresses this form of wagering in Illinois, a court could look to several sources in order to form its own opinion. One source would be the "legislative intent" of the drafters of the Illinois Horse Racing Act of 1975 (as amended). Another could be the opinion of the Attorney General; who's opinion includes analysis and legal interpretation of the applicable state and federal acts, as they pertain to the specific questions posed to hom the the Illinois Racing Board.

Part of any criminal or civil prosecution in this area would require the court to divine "where the wager was made", and "who accepted and booked the wager". Given the portability of internet access, one question might be, whether the registered address of the internet account holder determined the location of where the wager was made.

The fact that the legislature has made recent efforts to pass legislation that would specifically legalize advanced deposit account wagering would certainly seem to suggest that their interpretation of the present statute; even if their perception of past legislative intent was to the contrary, is that this form of parimutuel wagering in Illinois is indeed currently illegal. The recent legislative attempts to address this situation however have gone well beyond clarifying past legislative intent, and these measures have looked to specifically codify various parimtuel wagering activities under statute that the present laws do not address.

Considering that Duchisois now owns and operates Twin Spires, and that Youbet is substantailly owned by the Pritzker/Brodsky clans; and that the former Governor of Illinois is on the Youbet BOD, you would think that passing comprehensive ADW statutory amendments would be a lay-up.

Alternatively however you'd have to consider that any such highly controversial legislation would have to pass through the House of Representatives; where the father of the AG serves as Speaker of the House. In addition, since the AG will likely enter a heavily contested primary election for Governor in 2010, any attempts to change the current statute between now and then will be sure to have someone (perhaps a future primary opponent) attempt to draw her into the controversy and go on record as to where she stands with the entire issue.

Finally;

{My guess is that since an IL racetrack licensee (Churchill Downs) is doing it, there would have been an attempt to shut it down if the AG's office really thought they would win. Most racing commissions have a representative of the AG's office advising them, so it can't be a lack of exposure to what's going on for an excuse.}

If Flyin Late would like to get some more specifics before funding his TwinSpires account again, it could be a worthwhile exercise to contact the Illinois Racing Board and seek their opinion on this matter. An associated FOIA request for all correspondence between the IRB on one hand and/or TwisnSpires-Youbet, could be very revealing.