horse racing shooting itself in foot

[lamboguy]

ilegal as it is, offshore houses are doing brisk business in horseracing. they area offering their players a full complement of race tracks and a rebate to go with it. they do not benefit the horseraceing industry in the least bit. in this age of internet gambling, there is alot of interest in horseracing, while race track handles are declining, the offshore places are making up for it and then some. face it, people would rather sit at home and bet on horseracing they can watch, than play a hand of blackjack with a dealer that they can't see.
if the race tracks could look at high gas prices as a positive and not an excuse they could do well. first they would have to end the bickering between each other, and wagering facilities. they have to realise that they are all in it together. tracknet and wagering exclusivity does not work, and will not work with the competiton from the offshore entities. proposed higher takeouts will not work, and no rewards programs also will not work. the slot machines are a temporary fix for now, but not the long term solution. standard rules are a must thruout every racing venue. a strong commision would be in order as well. stringent license requirements are a must for all employee's in race tracks or wagering facility's. i could go on and on, but as you see we need some vast changes here to keep this great game alive. i think its sick that an offshore place that is on the internet or has a dozen phone operators can do more of a wagering handle than most race tracks. 5 years ago, pinacle sports was doing $10 million on a good day. that is insane. they get the same takeout as the racetrack and don't pay the same expenses. it cost big money to run a racing program, protect it.

[boomman]

ilegal as it is, offshore houses are doing brisk business in horseracing. they area offering their players a full complement of race tracks and a rebate to go with it. they do not benefit the horseraceing industry in the least bit. in this age of internet gambling, there is alot of interest in horseracing, while race track handles are declining, the offshore places are making up for it and then some. face it, people would rather sit at home and bet on horseracing they can watch, than play a hand of blackjack with a dealer that they can't see.
if the race tracks could look at high gas prices as a positive and not an excuse they could do well. first they would have to end the bickering between each other, and wagering facilities. they have to realise that they are all in it together. tracknet and wagering exclusivity does not work, and will not work with the competiton from the offshore entities. proposed higher takeouts will not work, and no rewards programs also will not work. the slot machines are a temporary fix for now, but not the long term solution. standard rules are a must thruout every racing venue. a strong commision would be in order as well. stringent license requirements are a must for all employee's in race tracks or wagering facility's. i could go on and on, but as you see we need some vast changes here to keep this great game alive. i think its sick that an offshore place that is on the internet or has a dozen phone operators can do more of a wagering handle than most race tracks. 5 years ago, pinacle sports was doing $10 million on a good day. that is insane. they get the same takeout as the racetrack and don't pay the same expenses. it cost big money to run a racing program, protect it.

The only way you shut down the offshores is to allow access to everyone in the US of everytrack and allow an ADW such as PTC that does put money back into horse racing to compete by paying "cash back rewards" to players. The withholding of signals in the US by ANY ENTITY whether it be the TOC, the horsemen, whomever, is the most ridiculous thing ever! The offshores will continue to steal away customers and rebate them until this broken business model is fixed.............:mad:

Boomer

[cj]

What boomman says is true. It is also true that tracks with especially high takeouts make the situation even worse on themselves and better for the offshore books. A takeout of 10% would eliminate most of these places.

[SMOO]

A takeout of 10% would eliminate most of these places.

:ThmbUp:

[1st time lasix]

"Amen" to lower takeout! As a simulcast player that utilizes exotics....I now always "tailor" my plays and handicapping opinions to the pools exclusively with a lower takeout. Rarely do i make an exception. Either exactas, doubles, pick 3/4's, tris or supers where the take is lower on a percentage basis. I understand that win pool "takes" can be lower too and i use them if my "key" horse is 3-1 or higher but i am "gimmick" overlay player. Want that overlay to translate into a bigger score. :ThmbUp: It takes a little homework for some players to investigate "the rake"....but i think it is vital for roi performance over time.

[Marlin]

LOL at lower takeout. Take away government fees and taxes, the tracks would love to lower takeout. You think tracks don't understand? You want them to cut their 3%? You want them to cut their 8%? Its a government issue and not a racetrack issue.

[cj]

LOL at lower takeout. Take away government fees and taxes, the tracks would love to lower takeout. You think tracks don't understand? You want them to cut their 3%? You want them to cut their 8%? Its a government issue and not a racetrack issue.

How many have tried to have takeout lowered? That happens about as often as a solar eclipse. How many times have tracks advocated raising takeout? Case closed.

[classhandicapper]

How many have tried to have takeout lowered? That happens about as often as a solar eclipse. How many times have tracks advocated raising takeout? Case closed.

You make a good point, but personally, as a libertarian, I'd rather we beat up on government because it's always idiotic. ;) There's at least some hope that a few track managments get it.

[lamboguy]

industry is leaving this country. and horse prices are way down. i bought horses today in ocala for $5000, last year the same horse would have been $25000..

i got one by the same mare that has won already this year and the yearling i bought for 5k looks better.

i say make deal with government and cut those taxes in half. keep at least a prosperous industry in this country. it puts plenty of people to work and is in a productive sector of our economy. it flat out works. in long run government will wind up getting more money from the industry by cutting taxes in half.

[Tom Barrister]

Racing finished shooting itself in the foot long ago. It's moved up the body and is now busy shooting itself in the face. The only reason it hasn't died off yet is because the powers that be have rock-hard heads, and the bullets can't get in.

[Cangamble]

LOL at lower takeout. Take away government fees and taxes, the tracks would love to lower takeout. You think tracks don't understand? You want them to cut their 3%? You want them to cut their 8%? Its a government issue and not a racetrack issue.
Absolute nonsense. Woodbine has their own ADW, slots, and have something like the 5th highest collective takeout in the industry.
Oh, and in Ontario, all that goes towards tax is around 1.3% on each bet.

[Marlin]

Absolute nonsense. Woodbine has their own ADW, slots, and have something like the 5th highest collective takeout in the industry.
Oh, and in Ontario, all that goes towards tax is around 1.3% on each bet.Sorry. I'm not speaking about every track. I have no clue about Woodbine's percentage breakdown. I have only wagered one day at Woodbine. That was the Breeders Cup. If you have a link that breaks this down I'd love to review it.

[Cangamble]

Sorry. I'm not speaking about every track. I have no clue about Woodbine's percentage breakdown. I have only wagered one day at Woodbine. That was the Breeders Cup. If you have a link that breaks this down I'd love to review it.
How much do you think is taxed by different states? Anyway, I found this article. Check the date on it:

HORSE RACING: NOTEBOOK; Just Say Nah to Today's Mix of Parimutuel Taxes




By JOSEPH DURSO
Published: May 7, 1993
One of the horse-racing advisers to the Governor said yesterday that the state should lower its taxes on bets as part of an overhaul of the parimutuel system "to revive the state's racing, wagering and breeding indutries."

The proposal was made in a report by Steven Crist, the racing writer, who was one of nine people named last year to Gov. Mario M. Cuomo's Advisory Commission on Racing in the 21st Century. The commission is expected to send its recommendations to Cuomo early in June. It has already indicated that it favors some sort of merger of the New York Racing Association and the Off-Track Betting Corporation.

In a briefing at Belmont Park yesterday on the economics of betting in the state, Crist said that he was proposing reforms in four areas: a cut in the parimutuel tax, or takeout, on each bet; a new allocation of the money taken out of bets, both on and off the track, returning more to the bettor; a change in the formula for "breakage," or rounding off the money paid out in bets, and eliminating or refining the state's withholding of income taxes from high, winning bets.

"The only way to bring in more revenue to both government and racing," Crist said, "is to increase the parimutuel handle wagered by the public, whose bets provide every last nickel of funding for these industries."

His key proposal would lower the tax on bets in order to return more to the bettor, who would presumably promptly put it back into the system in new bets. When the parimutuel system began in New York in 1940, the takeout was 10 percent, with 90 percent returned to the bettor. The tax today ranges from 17 percent for straight bets to 25 percent for more exotic bets, and the state's six regional OTB corporations impose an additional surcharge of up to 6 percent on winning bets.

The money subtracted from each winning bet at the track is now split this way: 8.5 percent to the racing association, 4.5 percent to the state, 3.5 percent to purses.

"If you bet $100 on racing," Crist said, "you pay $18 as the cost. On a football game, you pay $4.50. I am suggesting a cut of 15 to 20 percent in the takeout on racing bets. If the state has to take a hit to save the industry, it will have to take it. But the state shouldn't take all the burden. In the long run, everybody should gain. Every time the takeout goes down, attendance and handle go up. It's that simple."

Gerard J. McKeon, president of the N.Y.R.A., who attended the briefing, said he agreed in principle, and added: "I don't see many alternatives."


UpDATE: I found this link. Go to page 5:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Og9pTHqVllkJ:tax.ohio.gov/divisions/communications/publications/documents/Horse_Racing_Tax.pdf+state+taxes+pari+mutuel+new+j ersey&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5