Ok, What now? Do we Waterboard her?

[JustRalph]

I gotta say, yes.......... we treat her no differently than other high value captures.................. what say you? * pardon my bad spelling.....

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5567066&page=1

Alleged Mata Hari of Al Qaeda Could Provide 'Treasure Trove' of Intelligence
Aafia Siddique Had a List of Targets in New York & Chem-Bio Weapons Information in her Possession

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/siddiqui_080812_mn.jpg

When she was arrested in Afghanistan last month, Aafia Siddique allegedly had in her possession maps of New York, a list of potential targets that included the Statue of Liberty, Times Square, the subway system and the animal disease center on Plum Island, detailed chemical, biological and radiological weapon information that has been seen only in a handful of terrorist cases, as well as a thumb drive packed with emails, ABC News has learned.

That haul of information has led multiple government sources to describe Siddique, a 36 year-old MIT graduate, as a potential "treasure trove" of information on terrorist supporters, sympathizers or 'sleepers' in the United States and overseas.


"She is the most significant capture in five years," said former CIA officer John Kiriakou, who said she lives up to her reputation as an alleged terrorist 'Mata Hari.'


And there is an eagerness to see what, if anything, she can add to the thin trickle of fresh information on the activities of terrorists and terrorist supporters in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as well as what if any risk she might pose to national security.

Only a "handful" of captured alleged Al Qaeda associates have had the kind of detailed information on weapons of mass destruction that Siddique, who attended MIT as an undergraduate and earned her PhD in neuroscience at Brandeis, had in her handbag, multiple current and former US intelligence and law enforcement officials told ABC News.


"She is a very dangerous person, no doubt about it," said a senior US counter terrorism official.

"This is a major haul, a major capture for the FBI," said Kiriakou. "To find someone who has such rich information, computer hard drives, e-mails, that is really a major capture."


US authorities are analyzing Siddique's saliva, hair, and fingernail scrapings to determine, if possible, what evidence they can find of any exposure to chemical, biological or radiological materials with potential use in weapons of mass destruction, sources said.


"Her education troubled us. We know that she's extremely bright. She's radicalized. We knew that she had been planning, or at least involved in the planning, of a wide variety of different operations, whether they involved weapons of mass destruction or research into chemical or biological weapons, whether it was a possible attempt on the life of the President," said Kiriakou. "We knew that she was involved with a great deal and we had to bring her into custody."

~much more at the link~

[PaceAdvantage]

Awww, the left will just say this is all some fantasy-land story and then blame it all on the Jews.

There is no threat from terrorism dontcha know? We should just treat it as a police issue and do what the police do...wait until the crime is committed and THEN go looking for the bad guys....

When GWB goes looking for the bad guys FIRST, he gets lambasted. But then again, he got lambasted for doing nothing before 9/11. The left said he should have done something because that memo read "Osama determined to attack inside US."

Now, when he does something (and prevents any further attacks post-9/11), he gets called a war criminal.

[RichieP]

Use any and all means available to extract info

[Tom]

Did any women die on 9-11?
No brainer.

Give her a 55 gallon enema at the same time.
See what we can flush out.

[equicom]

Well, it does say "allegedly had in her possession". American justice system is supposed to be based on "innocent until proven guilty" and guilt needs to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Then I think you should give her a jolly good ticking off, and no custard for a month. If she still won't talk after that, perhaps you could look at making it two months.

[JustRalph]

Well, it does say "allegedly had in her possession". American justice system is supposed to be based on "innocent until proven guilty" and guilt needs to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt".

They are not subject to the "American Justice System" They do not have rights of U.S. Citizens. She wasn't even captured in the U.S. They are enemy combatants.

That was the Bill Clinton version of dealing with Terror. It worked so well after the first Twin towers attack.......didn't it? :bang:

These people are not criminals. They are enemy soldiers.......... in whatever form they take. No exceptions.

[equicom]

Ummm.... the problem is that you have the power to label anybody as a "combatant". Which is a big problem.

The most appropriate way to deal with this person is to use conventional interrogation and show some leniency if she co-operates. If she doesn't, torture won't definitely give you answers.

Remember when the bully at school was giving you a chinese burn to get info out of you (no doubt providing the inspiration to become a cop), and you just lied and said any old thing that came into your head, figuring the dumb bastard wouldn't know the difference anyway?

Same thing will happen if you torture that woman. She doesn't want to be tortured, but she also doesn't want to be a traitor. She'll more than likely lie no matter what you do to her.

The good part is that now you've caught her, you've disrupted their operation. On the other hand, she may genuinely have no useful information. A good intel operation is always compartmentalised and "need-to-know", so she would not necessarily be able to provide any answers. She might be just a carrier pigeon or she might be just in possession of the hardware, not knowing the contents.

[46zilzal]

My good friend told me of the script to a movie he was in last year,(plays Merryl Streep's husband) called Rendition about a mistaken identity tortured until the local CIA rep gets sick of it and knows he is barking up the wrong tree and lets him go. THEY WILL SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT UNDER TORTURE.

[Dave Schwartz]

The most appropriate way to deal with this person is to use conventional interrogation and show some leniency if she co-operates. If she doesn't, torture won't definitely give you answers.

You have obviously never even been close to any form of torture.

[equicom]

...until the local CIA rep gets sick of it and knows he is barking up the wrong tree and lets him go

If that's all that happens, it sounds kinda boring. He should bust out of the joint, or get rescued by Mr T or something. Sounds lame to just let him walk out of there. At the very least they could bring in Julia Roberts to prove in court that they tortured the wrong man to death. Give Ms Streep a few millions to make up for her loss. Fade out. Roll credits.

[46zilzal]

The whole idea of the movie was to show how torture doesn't work, particularly when you get the wrong guy to begin with.

[prospector]

Well, it does say "allegedly had in her possession". American justice system is supposed to be based on "innocent until proven guilty" and guilt needs to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt".

American justice system? how does she qualify for that?
she's the enemy..get the info any way we can and give her a ride halfway to gitmo...

[46zilzal]

You have obviously never even been close to any form of torture.
Moving furniture over 9 S.California summers was torture.......Only thing that saved me was youth.

[equicom]

You have obviously never even been close to any form of torture.

That statement is actually false. And even if it weren't false, it is unqualified. I don't know how you get "obviously".

And for the record, I have been previously tortured, have seen other people tortured, and have been in presence of people being tortured. It's never pretty. And when I was tortured, I lied my ass off, successfully.

Mind you, the people torturing me were criminals, so it is quite a different scenario to the material of the case currently under discussion.

[delayjf]

That statement is actually false. And even if it weren't false, it is unqualified. I don't know how you get "obviously".

It is not a forgone conclusion that she will not talk if interrogated aggressively / tortured. We have gotten good intell from water boarding before, so who's to say. I'd say give it the ole college try.

[DRIVEWAY]

Make her read all of ZILZAL's posts for the last year. She'll never shut up.

[46zilzal]

Make her read all of ZILZAL's posts for the last year. She'll never shut up.
She might not understand them

[JustRalph]

Remember when the bully at school was giving you a chinese burn to get info out of you (no doubt providing the inspiration to become a cop), and you just lied and said any old thing that came into your head, figuring the dumb bastard wouldn't know the difference anyway?

you don't know me. you damn sure don't know what you are talking about. You take a personal shot like that for no reason. You are wrong on the subject of the thread and much more.........

[HUSKER55]

This is war and war is war and there is only one rule. Last man standing wins.

Shoot that bitch out in the field and say she died in glorious battle and she is now serving whom ever is her great spirit in the sky.

This is not a gentlemans game and if you believe otherwise guess again.

Gw stood by after 911 and did nothing. Clinton let The Nicole go unpunished and money says if Obama gets elected he will sell them the weapons to blast the US.

This is a no brainer. Shoot her.

[boxcar]

My good friend told me of the script to a movie he was in last year,(plays Merryl Streep's husband) called Rendition about a mistaken identity tortured until the local CIA rep gets sick of it and knows he is barking up the wrong tree and lets him go. THEY WILL SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT UNDER TORTURE.

You would have done better to have added...and they will also say anything at all when they know no "torture" is in the captors' game plan.

Boxcar

[hcap]

For all you "ends justifies the means" guys. Why even bother with such crude techniques. Invade the mind instead. Ah, the military mindset run amok. Fear of terrorism has successfully made TV shows like 24 the norm.

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/08/uncle-sam-wants.html

Uncle Sam Wants Your Brain

# Mind control. Largely pharmaceutical, for the moment, and a natural outgrowth of cognitive enhancement approaches and mind-reading insight: If we can alter the brain, why not control it?

One potential use involves making soldiers want to fight. Conversely, "How can we disrupt the enemy’s motivation to fight? [...] How can we make people trust us more? What if we could help the brain to remove fear or pain? Is there a way to make the enemy obey our commands?"
.................................................. ........................

I voted NO

[Tom]

You would just as soon invite Osama over for tea with Barry to clear up this silly misunderstanding?

Golly, gee, does Islam allow crumpets?
Maybe while he was here, you could drive him down to Florida so he could vote, too.

Compare the results of water boarding (means) to 9-11 (ends) and get backto me.

[boxcar]

For all you "ends justifies the means" guys. Why even bother with such crude techniques. Invade the mind instead.

You'll never have to fear the military or any government agency or bureau invading your mind. There simply aren't enough septic tank trucks in the nation to pump out all the raw sewage lodged between your ears, which in your case would have to be the initial step taken to see if there's even a mind worth invading.

Boxcar

[equicom]

you don't know me. you damn sure don't know what you are talking about. You take a personal shot like that for no reason. You are wrong on the subject of the thread and much more.........

It's little things like this ridiculous accusation of "taking a personal shot at you" that make people laugh about the education system in the United States. I mean, seriously how could anyone with an IQ above room temperature:

1. Think that I was being literal instead of metaphorical?

2. Think that it was intended as an insult?

3. Think that it was intended seriously?

4. Not recognize the tone of the statement?

I would never take a swipe at you, JR. You tend to get your knickers in a knot about these things. You'd think a police officer would know about controlling his temper.

I think it would be obvious to anybody that I didn't actually climb into a time machine and go back and witness an actual incident between you and the school bully. In fact I strongly suspect that you probably were the school bully. But that's a side issue.

It was an imaginary scenario intended to capture the spirit of the main point about torture, and you have skilfully deflected from that point, so well done.

[Greyfox]

Information = Power
Are we being given all of the true information here?

Unfortunately, there is a tremendous amount of misinformation being circulated about this alleged terrorist.
Depending upon what newspaper you read, a variety of versions are reported.
In one report she was captured in 2003.
Now she appears in U.S. authorities hands and they can't explain where she has been for 5 years. I find that hard to believe.
I "googled" Aafia Siddiqui and found that one report stated:



one of her kidneys had been removed while in captivity;
her teeth had been removed;
her nose had been broken, and improperly reset;
that her recent gun-shot wound had been incompetently dressed, was oozing blood, leaving her clothes soaked with blood.
her hands and feet were dirty, and she smelled bad.
An August 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_11), 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008)Reuters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuters) report stated that she had appeared at her hearing in a wheelchair, and that her lawyers pleaded with the judge to make sure she received medical care.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui#cite_note-Reuters20080811-25)

On the limited information that I've read about this woman, something isn't passing the "smell test." On the surface, it appears that she has already been subjected to all sorts of torture already.

The rather confusing circumstances of her situation are outlined in a rather lengthy article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui

[equicom]

Very interesting, greyfox.

I found this quote in the article:

According to the US account when they didn't find Siddiqui there, the GIs didn't search for her -- they set down their weapons -- whereupon Siddiqui burst from behind a curtain, grabbed an M-4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-4), and opened fire.

Definitely something wrong with this picture. They don't bother searching for her and actually put their weapons down? Nobody is that stupid. Nobody.

[boxcar]

Very interesting, greyfox.

I found this quote in the article:



Definitely something wrong with this picture. They don't bother searching for her and actually put their weapons down? Nobody is that stupid. Nobody.

We have had some pretty downright stupid posts on this forum, which I have to think weren't made by the brightest bulbs in the joint. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of these posters would have done this on the battlefield.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

We have had some pretty downright stupid posts on this forum, which I have to think weren't made by the brightest bulbs in the joint. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of these posters would have done this on the battlefield.


why in the world one anyone choose to go to a battle field other than as a medical person?

[Tom]

Ask one of the hundreds of thousand doing it right now out. Not everyone is as shallow and twisted as you are. I would explain it, but you do not undersand character or loyalty, so it would be a waste of time.

Your turn to throw more monkey pop and have kittens.........

[equicom]

Yeah, but they were not even on a battlefield. They were in a room! And they didn't even bother to search. They didn't notice the feet sticking out from under the curtain. It's like a script from a Get Smart episode.

[46zilzal]

Ask one of the hundreds of thousand doing it right now out. Not everyone is as shallow and twisted as you are. I would explain it, but you do not understand character or loyalty, so it would be a waste of time.

..
poor misguided fellows will carry that horror around the rest of their lives with many viewing it directly from the bottom of a bottle of booze. I have worked with many of them who were never the same: most were divorced never knowing quite how it changed them. A very close friend almost committed suicide it bothered him so badly

[PaceAdvantage]

The most appropriate way to deal with this person is to use conventional interrogation and show some leniency if she co-operates. If she doesn't, torture won't definitely give you answers.Your posts get sillier by the moment. How in the world do you know that torture won't give you the answers? You have no idea the type of person you are dealing with until you actually get in the room with them and start the process.

[Tom]

poor misguided fellows

That is an insult to every one of our troops, you maggot.

[46zilzal]

That is an insult to every one of our troops, you maggot.
war and the stress changes people. That it a fact from years of experience in clinical situations.

My own brother in law was never the same and died a few year after coming back.. I saw countless poor guys who could never shake the horror. WHy put anyone through that for nothing?

comments from family members
“I just felt like this silent scream inside of me,” said Jessica Harrell, the sister of a soldier who took his own life.

"I opened up the door and there he was," recalled Mike Bowman, the father of an Army reservist.

"I saw the hose double looped around his neck,” said Kevin Lucey, another military father.

"He was gone,” said Mia Sagahon, whose soldier boyfriend committed suicide.

[Tom]

You can't read, can you?

[Boris]

Mores quotes:

"I'm obviously very proud of my son," says John McCain, "but also understandably a little nervous." after his son Jimmy reported to the Marines.


"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country." - George Washington

[equicom]

I think the main thing is that regardless of how you feel about the war, it should not mean that you extend any negative feelings to the members of the armed forces who are engaged in that war.

If there is a motive to condemn, then the actions should be condemned, not the individuals, except in the case of situations where actions are also crimes, and in particular war crimes such as human rights abuses, genocide, or other abhorrant actions.

In the cases where specific individuals are responsbile for war crimes, the sentiments should not extend beyond those individuals involved. To blame the barrel for containing bad apples is just as silly as blaming the apples for being in a bad barrel.