Calder or Gulfstream

[pktruckdriver]

Is there a big descrepancy in track variant for the 2 South Fla, tracks?


I know the So. Cal tracks are all completly different, so each one must be
H-capped slightly different, I was wondering how different.


This board know this question for sure.

[cj]

For 2008, I averaged the speed variant for both tracks. I didn't separate sprints from routes...it is all races.

Calder has an average variant of about 7 Beyer points slow.
Gulfstream has an average variant of about 13 Beyer points fast.

So, the difference is roughly 8 lengths at 6f.

Just keep one thing in mind. The relative speed of the surface isn't always a good gauge of how well front runners do on it.

[sjk]

Dirt pars:

DISTANCE CRC GP
1 1/16 MILES 108.33
1 1/8 MILES 115.37 112.21
1 3/16 MILES 123.35 119.56
1 MILE 101.22 98.10
1 MILE AND 70 YARDS 105.69
5 1/2 FURLONGS 65.88 64.36
5 FURLONGS 59.40 57.95
6 1/2 FURLONGS 78.83 77.52
6 FURLONGS 72.14 70.89
7 1/2 FURLONGS 90.75
7 FURLONGS 85.43 84.14

[karlskorner]

By Stephen Crist special to NY Times (quip)

" The speed of the track (Gulfstream) can change several times a day and horses rarely run the same figures from race to race. No one seems to know why this is, and otherwide rational handicappers are driven to bizarre theories.
Some say the answer lies in the tide tables, thinking that undeground currents from the nearby Atlantic are to blame" (end)

From a vantage point you can often see the ripples in the track as the tide moves in or out

[pktruckdriver]

Thank you Gentlemen, really.


All of you ,have kept me a little confused on what to do now with the speed variant between them tracks and also between the time of day at one of the tracks.


It is almost like two different surfaces,

1. like beach sand (Calder which is slower)

2. like hard clay/packed dirt ( maybe gulfstream, which is faster)


They are not Poly but are acting like different poly tracks do, no?

So CJ 8 lengths is a lot , is it not, like a 5k claimer running with a Grade II, That may be the difference in class as compared to the speed difference , no? 8 lengths is a lot, or am I wrong believing it is?

My limited data is making it hard to study a circuit that isn't year round and also almost identical, key word, almost indentical in track variant's, may be impossible, unless just one track?

Am I asking for the impossible here, might be, have done so before, and y'all told me so, well I might be.

Bottomline for South Florida is treat them as seperate tracks, as they are.

Same with So.Cal too. New York too. Kentucky too. What else?



Well again thanks for the replies, really, just more to think about.

Patrick

[nobeyerspls]

Calder is deeper with more sand in the surface. One solid angle is to bet horses who are training well at Calder when they first start on the faster GP surface. The first few days of the meet can produce nice payouts on horses that quit at Calder but kept running at GP.
Keep in mind that Calder is a mile track and GP is a mile and an eighth. Two turn races at Calder are very different from the one mile chute races at GP. The same is true for the turf course, tighter turns at Calder can produce bad trips which are not eliminated at GP but reduced somewhat.
Lastly, horses from the Northeast who first try either turf course find themselves on a very different surface.

[hoovesupsideyourhe]

ANY HORSE THAT RUNS A SARATOGA TYPE PAR AT CALDER. IS GOING TO FLY AT GS..

[pktruckdriver]

ANY HORSE THAT RUNS A SARATOGA TYPE PAR AT CALDER. IS GOING TO FLY AT GS..


Just Curious, What did he say there...???


I understand a whole lot of things, but this one I do not, sorry.



I was just hoping H-Capping So.Fla would be pretty simple,,but nothing is simple anymore

[dartman51]

By Stephen Crist special to NY Times (quip)

" The speed of the track (Gulfstream) can change several times a day and horses rarely run the same figures from race to race. No one seems to know why this is, and otherwide rational handicappers are driven to bizarre theories.
Some say the answer lies in the tide tables, thinking that undeground currents from the nearby Atlantic are to blame" (end)

From a vantage point you can often see the ripples in the track as the tide moves in or out

Just keep the surfers off the track...it screws up my handicapping.

LMAO:lol::D

[onefast99]

Calder is deeper with more sand in the surface. One solid angle is to bet horses who are training well at Calder when they first start on the faster GP surface. The first few days of the meet can produce nice payouts on horses that quit at Calder but kept running at GP.
Keep in mind that Calder is a mile track and GP is a mile and an eighth. Two turn races at Calder are very different from the one mile chute races at GP. The same is true for the turf course, tighter turns at Calder can produce bad trips which are not eliminated at GP but reduced somewhat.
Lastly, horses from the Northeast who first try either turf course find themselves on a very different surface.
We have run several on both the MP turf and the Belmont turf and the GP turf, we have found that the MP turf in May and June is exactly the same as the GP turf in January and February. If you need proof look up Approved By Dylan's pp's in 2007.