Awful

[Track Phantom]

A couple of observations from the Arlington Million Day broadcast.

1) I cannot believe Arlington has all of those trees blocking the view of the race. I can deal with a few, but, I'd swear that 1/3 of the race is totally blocked from view. Couldn't be more ridiculous.

2) Hank Goldberg. I've heard and seen a lot of people torch this guy and I've never really had an opinion either way. However, in the Bev D and Million he boxed the 4 favorites in an exacta and lost both. His commentary was so meaningless and awful. What is the point of this person speaking and providing "insight" on these big races? I am perplexed.

3) U.S. horses suck.

[lamboguy]

i concur, one thing i want to add is that curlin the worlds greatest horse now tried the man of war, and regaurdless of the pace to the race he only ran second. do you think asmussen looked at what he had and decided that even he couldn't get a great horse like that ready to compete against the european horses in the arc detriumph.

your last observation was spot on, american's have learned to accept mediocracy with their horses, their leaders, and the products we turn out, along with the children that we raise.

[Marshall Bennett]

Yeah , between the tree's blocking the view , the fake surface , the fake crowd noise , and whatever else , I usually look elsewhere . Never wagered a dime at this track and never will .

[JeremyJet]

A couple of observations from the Arlington Million Day broadcast.

1) I cannot believe Arlington has all of those trees blocking the view of the race. I can deal with a few, but, I'd swear that 1/3 of the race is totally blocked from view. Couldn't be more ridiculous.

C'mon, it's no big deal. The big [weeping willow] adds to the beauty of the racetrack, IMHO.

JeremyJet

[ghostyapper]

i concur, one thing i want to add is that curlin the worlds greatest horse now

the worlds greatest DIRT horse. He would hand any european runner their head on a platter on that surface. Some mediocrity that is.

[ghostyapper]

Yeah , between the tree's blocking the view , the fake surface , the fake crowd noise , and whatever else , I usually look elsewhere . Never wagered a dime at this track and never will .

LOL you sure sound negative. I'll give you some of your own advice, why don't you just leave the game?

[lamboguy]

one thing i understand about this board, you get whacked no matter what you say. if you give out a loser you get completely blasted. if you give out a winner no one acknowledges, or they find something wrong with the price.

i love it

[fmhealth]

Valento, I didn't see "The Million" so I can't honestly comment on the obstructed camera view. What I can tell you as an AP regular is that you have a wonderfully panoramic view of the races when you're actually at the track.

I've personally attended races at most major venues in the US & some in S.A. AP truly offers a delightful perspective from virtually all GS & CH seats. Far better than most IMO.

In any event, take care.

FMH

[Marshall Bennett]

LOL you sure sound negative. I'll give you some of your own advice, why don't you just leave the game?
Why is it you can't resist reading a post and moving on without making some smartass comment ?

[ghostyapper]

Why is it you can't resist reading a post and moving on without making some smartass comment ?

Sorry, when I see blatant hyprocrisy I have to call it out.

[lamboguy]

hey marshall, i thought you had a great post and you got ambushed at the pass. don't feel bad same thing happens to me. i started a post of about the cancellation of saratoga and got belted. they lined up nine million people from here to shag-hai blasting me for being cruel to horses.

that is why they have democrats and republicans, i guess.

i am going to get whacked again on the price of gold, it is tanking right now, i said it would be at $1200 by the end of the year, and i even admit now it won't make it there until they crown a new president.

[HUSKER55]

you could sell short and buy back later and still profit. Now, how do I do that with a horse race?


husker55

[lamboguy]

good point husker, when you bet on horseracing, its like being in the hands of the al-qaeda. everything that can go wrong will go wrong!!

i wish i could give you a better answer, but i haven't missed a day now this century, hopefully i can finish out this century doing the same thing, and you can be right here with me!

[Irish Boy]

I think that Arlington ranks pretty consistently as one of the most scenic race courses in the U.S. The infield is one of the reasons for that. The horses are obstructed for about three to five seconds per race by the trees- maybe six seconds when they are on the turf. On track they're not an issue from any seat in the building, unless you're sitting right on the track itself. I know I'd much rather sacrifice a couuple seconds on the backstretch when watching a video feed for a better track experience and ambiance.

But some people will find anything to complain about. Did those five seconds cost you a bet in the fourth?

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

Yeah , between the tree's blocking the view , the fake surface , the fake crowd noise , and whatever else , I usually look elsewhere . Never wagered a dime at this track and never will .

You would pass up a good wagering opportunity over that?

[trigger]

hey marshall, i thought you had a great post and you got ambushed at the pass. don't feel bad same thing happens to me. i started a post of about the cancellation of saratoga and got belted. they lined up nine million people from here to shag-hai blasting me for being cruel to horses.

that is why they have democrats and republicans, i guess.

i am going to get whacked again on the price of gold, it is tanking right now, i said it would be at $1200 by the end of the year, and i even admit now it won't make it there until they crown a new president.

So, looks like you blew it.

[lamboguy]

no question about it, i blew the timing of that call.

[BUD]

Hell you could be like me...One foot on the banana peel one in the grave......



I am the exception I am thankful for what I hear and see..... Tomorrow going in to the near and far future for me may be a dark day.....

Ya I see the probs probably make a joke about it....but life's to short for total or even semi negativity.....Spent to much time building that road....
Now by force I;m catching up on lost time..
And I am enjoying myself all the while...

[BeatTheChalk]

you could sell short and buy back later and still profit. Now, how do I do that with a horse race?


husker55

Go Big Red. Now to the important stuff : Will they be trying to run up the scores Early in the Season .. Like they always used to do :jump: :lol: They
just love to run it up .. cover the spread and have a good ol time. :ThmbUp:

[socantra]

Go Big Red. Now to the important stuff : Will they be trying to run up the scores Early in the Season .. Like they always used to do :jump: :lol: They
just love to run it up .. cover the spread and have a good ol time. :ThmbUp:

Are you possibly in the wrong place????, or do you just not have any idea where you are????? I understand that college football is a very popular sport, and you do not have to come to horse racing forums to discuss it.

[ezrabrooks]

Are you possibly in the wrong place????, or do you just not have any idea where you are????? I understand that college football is a very popular sport, and you do not have to come to horse racing forums to discuss it.

Hey...I guess everybody in Norman does snap to attention at the mere mention of Big Red....

[ManeMediaMogul]

Valento, I didn't see "The Million" so I can't honestly comment on the obstructed camera view. What I can tell you as an AP regular is that you have a wonderfully panoramic view of the races when you're actually at the track.

I've personally attended races at most major venues in the US & some in S.A. AP truly offers a delightful perspective from virtually all GS & CH seats. Far better than most IMO.

In any event, take care.

FMH

Arlington Park might just be the most beautiful racetrack in North America. It is certainly the cleanest. I wish more fans would make the trip.

[lamboguy]

obviously you haven't been to woodbine or monmouth

[ManeMediaMogul]

I have been to Monmouth and although it is a lovely track, it is neither as beautiful (in the eye of the beholder) or as clean (just a fact) as Arlington Park. I have never been to Woodbine, although most reports are favorable.

[Bruddah]

Arlington Park might just be the most beautiful racetrack in North America. It is certainly the cleanest. I wish more fans would make the trip.

I lived in Chicago in the late 70's and early 80's. I was at Arlington Park just about every weekend for the 4 years I lived in Arlington Heights and I enjoyed it immensely. While a very nice track, it wasn't close to your description, at that time.

It has always amazed me how a steel and concrete structure could burn like a straw house (twice). Especially considering how one of the better Fire Depts. in Illinois wasn't far away. Go Figure! :confused:

I suppose eventually, they got a reconstructed version they were happy with. :eek: :rolleyes:

P.S. I wonder if they can get affordable fire coverage today. :D

[Track Phantom]

Might be the cleanest track but has the dirtiest trainers:

Catalano: 2 more wins today and winning near 50%. That is absolutely hillarious.

[GlenninOhio]

Might be the cleanest track but has the dirtiest trainers:

Catalano: 2 more wins today and winning near 50%. That is absolutely hillarious.

Perhaps equally astounding is the fact that approximately 30% of Catalano's entries have been claimed at this meet. And obviously this percentage would be much higher if you only considered his entries in claiming races.

To me, this means that he's way more willing to lose a horse in order to win a race than just about any trainer out there.

It doesn't take juice to win a $10,000 claimer with a horse that most trainers would run for $15,000.

Most owners would not permit this, but Calabrese is just as committed as Catalano to winning.

[JeremyJet]

Perhaps equally astounding is the fact that approximately 30% of Catalano's entries have been claimed at this meet. And obviously this percentage would be much higher if you only considered his entries in claiming races.

To me, this means that he's way more willing to lose a horse in order to win a race than just about any trainer out there.

It doesn't take juice to win a $10,000 claimer with a horse that most trainers would run for $15,000.

Most owners would not permit this, but Calabrese is just as committed as Catalano to winning.

I would love to see how those horse that got claimed from Catalano perform first time out for the new connections.

JeremyJet

[fmhealth]

Valento, Cat had three more winners today. Two I believe paid more than $7.00.

JJ, horses claimed from Cat are a definite BET-AGAINST when they first return to the races. All of us regulars know this but I don't have the details that back this up. We just automatically toss them. Seems to work.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, someone on here must have the details....I'd like to hear the facts.

[GlenninOhio]

I would love to see how those horse that got claimed from Catalano perform first time out for the new connections.

JeremyJet

I'm all for gathering additional information and I'm sure the results will be interesting in some manner.

That said, regardless of how these horses subsequently perform, the fact is that Catalano is running his claimers at a level that significantly increases his chances of winning.

Most references I've seen to "juice trainers" relates to them claiming a horse that has never run better than a 70 Beyer and then next out the horse runs a 95. The horse does well for awhile and is ultimately claimed by another trainer who then has little or no success with the horse.

I see this as unrelated to the point I'm making here about how Catalano spots his claimers. My guess is that those who claim from him will have a strong tendency to run them next out for a higher tag for a number of reasons, including track rules (I'm not sure if Arlington requires a step up if the claimed horse runs within 30 days). So almost by definition, these horses will under perform relative to their outing on the day they were claimed.

[fmhealth]

Catalano wins the first three at AP today. His second winner pays $10.00.

I spoke with the track 'capper today about any stats pertaining too "1st time runners claimed FROM Catalano". He said he'd try to put them together but he thought that the winning % was much higher than in past years. If he's able to gather this data, I'll post it as soon as it becomes available.

[Tom]

I have the following on Wayne Catalano from 11/9/07 to 6/19/08:

Claimed froms - 180
Won first out - 17 9%
2nd first out - 31 17%

Out of money - 103 57%

[Ron]

I'm not sure if Arlington requires a step up if the claimed horse runs within 30 days

Do some tracks are require this?

[fmhealth]

Thanks Tom, that's exactly what we were searching for.

[GlenninOhio]

Do some tracks are require this?

Kentucky tracks used to require a 20 or 25% step up if the claimed horse ran back within 30 days. Not sure if they do any more.

[exactatom]

Today's early daily double at AP was both ends Calabrese-Catalano. Not much time required to handicap these 2 races. As Fletch said "You did not need to be Cherlock Holmes to figure it out. In fact, I think Larry Holmes could figure it out."

[GlenninOhio]

Today's early daily double at AP was both ends Calabrese-Catalano. Not much time required to handicap these 2 races. As Fletch said "You did not need to be Cherlock Holmes to figure it out. In fact, I think Larry Holmes could figure it out."

So I assume you cashed? Or at least Larry Holmes cashed?

BTW, these were each first time starters, one in a MSW and one for a $40,000 tag. Looked like homebreds, or horses Calabrese had purchased privately.

They also won the third race - a $5,000 N2L - with a horse that had finished second beaten a nose 2 weeks ago in a $10,000 N2L. And no surprise - the horse went off at 4/5, won, and was claimed. Again, not many owners would even dream of dropping in a situation like this.

[Valuist]

Catalano had a streak a few years ago where out of 45 horses claimed away from him, only 1 won their next start. But that was at least 3 years ago. The big reason he wins at such a high percentage is his primary owner, Frank Calabrese, has a big ego and loves to win races. He will do anything to pile up the "W"s, primarily dropping horses below their likely level, and 'running them down their throat". I've seen him drop horses off a win and win right back many, many times. That type of manuever you never used to see, but in today's game, its not unusual.

As for AP, the track itself is as nice as any. Somebody on another board is always railing about chopping down the trees but I can say after 25 years of watching AP races, the view obstruction isn't very long, and one should still be able to take trip notes.

As for the surface, I think AP overreacted to the negative publicity in 2006. I just find synthetic racing more boring because we seem to always get a similar pace. I used to love the old track with its bias favoring horses in the 3 path up close.

[exactatom]

So I assume you cashed? Or at least Larry Holmes cashed?

BTW, these were each first time starters, one in a MSW and one for a $40,000 tag. Looked like homebreds, or horses Calabrese had purchased privately.

They also won the third race - a $5,000 N2L - with a horse that had finished second beaten a nose 2 weeks ago in a $10,000 N2L. And no surprise - the horse went off at 4/5, won, and was claimed. Again, not many owners would even dream of dropping in a situation like this.

Yes I did cash. I also had the pick 4 , but my recollection of the day was that they also won the 4 th not the 3rd, but after checking you were correct. I was at Ellis for Gardenia day (made the road trip from St Louis) and was a little off my game since the temperature was actually bearable. Ellis is a nice little track, but I always tell people my behavior is good for about 3 days afterward becasue summertime at the Pea Patch gives me a sample of what hell feels like.

[GlenninOhio]

Yes I did cash. I also had the pick 4 , but my recollection of the day was that they also won the 4 th not the 3rd, but after checking you were correct. I was at Ellis for Gardenia day (made the road trip from St Louis) and was a little off my game since the temperature was actually bearable. Ellis is a nice little track, but I always tell people my behavior is good for about 3 days afterward becasue summertime at the Pea Patch gives me a sample of what hell feels like.

Yes, it's been amazingly bearable at Ellis for a big chunk of this meet.

I plan on going back again on the 30th, so this gives Mother Nature plenty of time to turn up the temp dial to "hotter than Hell".

On a positive note, last time I was there I saw Ron Geary circulating through the grandstand crowd. Nothing bad about that.

[exactatom]

He also walked around the clubhouse dining room as well. I have been there about 6 times since he took over and I have seen him each time I have been there walking around shaking hands. On Belmont day 2007 I stopped there to watch Belmont on my way home from Churchill (I left early due to a horse running at Fairmount that evening). I told him I had some horses and asked him for a condition book. He got one and we talked for no more then 5 minutes. He still remembers me by name and addresses me as such when he sees me. I was with clients yesterday (for my real job) and when he addresses you by name, it leaves one heck of a good impression of a guy who is doing everything he can to make Ellis as good as he can and make you want to come back. I will try to get there at least once more before the meet ends.

[thespaah]

A couple of observations from the Arlington Million Day broadcast.

1) I cannot believe Arlington has all of those trees blocking the view of the race. I can deal with a few, but, I'd swear that 1/3 of the race is totally blocked from view. Couldn't be more ridiculous.

2) Hank Goldberg. I've heard and seen a lot of people torch this guy and I've never really had an opinion either way. However, in the Bev D and Million he boxed the 4 favorites in an exacta and lost both. His commentary was so meaningless and awful. What is the point of this person speaking and providing "insight" on these big races? I am perplexed.

3) U.S. horses suck.
Is there anything you like?

[thespaah]

Why is it you can't resist reading a post and moving on without making some smartass comment ?You opened the door.