The end of Pimlico is at hand

[cj's dad]

Funding to be eliminated; Pimlico barns to close

By Sandra McKee
Sun Reporter

August 6 2008

Further diminishing an already struggling industry, the Maryland Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association plans to discontinue the financing of six stakes races this fall, virtually eliminating some of the state's most prestigious races, The Sun has learned.

The complete article can be viewed at:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-sp.pimlico06aug06,0,3995737.story (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-sp.pimlico06aug06,0,3995737.story)

Visit baltimoresun.com (http://baltimoresun.com/) at http://www.baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/)

[takeout]

I wonder how much of this, if any, has to do with the upcoming slots vote?

[Tom]

Sad, I always liked Pimlico. It was really a nice place to be in the 70's.

[Robert Fischer]

I wonder how much of this, if any, has to do with the upcoming slots vote?


determined to use it's own failure as leverage.

[cj]

I wonder how much of this, if any, has to do with the upcoming slots vote?

I imagine a lot.

It seems to me the politicians in Maryland were the first to figure out you don't need a racetrack to have slots. Of course they aren't being smart, just greedy. :lol:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Wow. I figured these things would happen after they spent the money to upgrade the track/turf at Laurel, that if one track was on the way out, it would be Pimlico. I'm curious, since I've never been to either track - can the Laurel property handle a Preakness-Style crowd, or would they have to put limits on ticket sales if they moved wanted to move the Preakness to Laurel?

[takeout]

Here’s another one along similar lines.

Racing subsidies could leave Md.
Report highlights possible outcome of slots referendum

By Gadi Dechter
Sun reporter
August 6, 2008
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horseracing/bal-te.md.slots06aug06,0,6417121.story

A November slots referendum designed to keep millions in gambling dollars from going to nearby states would, if approved, likely end up sending millions in tax revenue to out-of-state racehorse owners, according to a new analysis by a taxpayer advocacy group.

In 2007, 58 percent of Maryland thoroughbred race winnings went to out-of-state owners, according to the report to be released today by the Maryland Tax Education Foundation.

If that trend continues, much of the $80 million in annual thoroughbred purse subsidies under the proposed legislation will continue to flow to non-Maryland horse owners and a small number of in-state breeders, said Jeffrey C. Hooke, a gambling analyst and president of the Bethesda-based nonprofit.

"If people think this referendum is going to save the Maryland racing industry, I think they're sadly mistaken," said Hooke, an investment banker who supports legalized gambling but not subsidies to private racing interests.
[snip]

[Tom]

Steve, Pimlico is not in exactly the best of neighborhoods, and traffic is horrible at times there. I'ts not in the best of shape anymore either.

[cj's dad]

At the risk of being political, here is what is going on in Merryland IMHO.

When slots were first proposed, Maryland, the one party state, had a republican governor (God forbid). He proposed slots and because slots were viewed by the opposition as being a good thing for the "Old Line State",
the dems took the opposite stance and all the lemmings in the Annapolis house followed suit.

Now, fast forward several years and we now have a Dem. gov who is in favor (ta da) of slots. However, in the interim, the tracks have suffered irrepairable damage. Pimlico is a dump; Laurel is very nice but is, however, too small to handle a 100,000+ crowd.

Maryland, the state that was home to War Admiral vs Seabiscuit, Preaknesses worth remembering and countless other horse racing memories now takes a back seat to (can you believe this) Colonial Downs.

To emphasize even farther, I looked on line today at DRF.com to see when live racing would return to Laurel and according to DRF, it will happen this Friday. There has been not one word on local TV or any TV or print ad regarding this return to live Md. racing.

It's over here folks, it is just a matter of when.

[alhattab]

I'm serious, and I feel for you. It must suck to see your home tracks in this position. Especially in a tradition-rich state. You mention Colonial, but even worse is that these tracks are succumbing to the likes of Philly Park.

I know it is pathetic, but I worry alot about Monmouth closing and wonder what I would do without it. What can I tell you I'm a one trick pony.

[1GCFAN]

In MD the anti-crowd is talking about the greedy horse owners, in Ohio they talked about the rich and greedy track owners. Then the anti-gambling governor promptly launched KENO with games every 4 minutes.

[alhattab]

In MD the anti-crowd is talking about the greedy horse owners, in Ohio they talked about the rich and greedy track owners. Then the anti-gambling governor promptly launched KENO with games every 4 minutes.

You had to see this coming. A few years ago when Monmouth Park is crying the blues and getting handout from casinos to compete, I had a letter published on this very topic. You knew people were going to suggest that money was inappropriately going to a "rich man's hobby", and that the money would be better spent on social programs, education etc.

I'm not espousing the position, and I recognize how deep the horse industry runs, but Democrats in power look to serve their constituencies. And those constituencies are not typically rural people or horsefarms. They want all the money into the cities to keep their machines rolling.

I can't believe it hasn't happened elsewhere. Maybe PA, Del and WVA don't have the same political dynamics as NJ, NY and MD. In NY I can't believe they will get away with diverting slots to horse racing when Mike Bloomberg starts looking to get his mits on it for something.

[ALostTexan]

You had to see this coming. A few years ago when Monmouth Park is crying the blues and getting handout from casinos to compete, I had a letter published on this very topic. You knew people were going to suggest that money was inappropriately going to a "rich man's hobby", and that the money would be better spent on social programs, education etc.

I'm not espousing the position, and I recognize how deep the horse industry runs, but Democrats in power look to serve their constituencies. And those constituencies are not typically rural people or horsefarms. They want all the money into the cities to keep their machines rolling.

I can't believe it hasn't happened elsewhere. Maybe PA, Del and WVA don't have the same political dynamics as NJ, NY and MD. In NY I can't believe they will get away with diverting slots to horse racing when Mike Bloomberg starts looking to get his mits on it for something.

I had an interesting discussion on this sort of topic. We were discussing whether, long-term, it was better to push a pro-slots agenda with the message that it would benefit kids or old people or whatever social program you choose. Or, is it better to stick to the "General Fund" mentality, saying that it is better to just go to the state.

We believed that it is probably better short term for the social program focus, because it is easy to sell that idea, but long term it is probably better for the latter, because it is only a matter of time until you will see the social program focus used to sell the originial idea in turn used against racetracks. Sort of in the form of "Well, we are by law giving the horsemen and tracks $X and the old people or kids $Y, but what are they doing? Wouldn't the money be better spend to give the old people and kids $X+Y?"

Very interesting ideas, and it has our heads spinning with reseach ideas on these topics...

[proximity]

Here’s another one along similar lines.

Racing subsidies could leave Md.
Report highlights possible outcome of slots referendum

By Gadi Dechter
Sun reporter
August 6, 2008
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horseracing/bal-te.md.slots06aug06,0,6417121.story

A November slots referendum designed to keep millions in gambling dollars from going to nearby states would, if approved, likely end up sending millions in tax revenue to out-of-state racehorse owners, according to a new analysis by a taxpayer advocacy group.

In 2007, 58 percent of Maryland thoroughbred race winnings went to out-of-state owners, according to the report to be released today by the Maryland Tax Education Foundation.

If that trend continues, much of the $80 million in annual thoroughbred purse subsidies under the proposed legislation will continue to flow to non-Maryland horse owners and a small number of in-state breeders, said Jeffrey C. Hooke, a gambling analyst and president of the Bethesda-based nonprofit.

"If people think this referendum is going to save the Maryland racing industry, I think they're sadly mistaken," said Hooke, an investment banker who supports legalized gambling but not subsidies to private racing interests.
[snip]

struggling with insomnia tonight...err... this morning, i clicked on this article seeking a potential cure and instead i find myself left wide awake and absolutely amazed at the naivete of mr hooke's "unbiased" report. and xtra shame on the sun "reporter" who really dug deep with the logical follow up questions to the big bad gambling analyst's "findings.":rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Tom Barrister]

I would imagine that the Preakness will be moved to Laurel.

You can view the demographics of the Pimlico Neighborhood here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimlico,_Baltimore

[ALostTexan]

I would imagine that the Preakness will be moved to Laurel.

You can view the demographics of the Pimlico Neighborhood here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimlico,_Baltimore

OK, that page only talks states that "there were 1,145 people residing in the Pimilico good neighbors neighborhood". I recall from my one and only experience at Pimlico (go Afleet Alex) is that the "Good Neighbors" they are referring to only account for a very, very, very small percentage of the people residing around the track.

At least we didn't have to park our cars down there...

[cnollfan]

, in the interim, the tracks have suffered irrepairable damage. Pimlico is a dump; Laurel is very nice but is, however, too small to handle a 100,000+ crowd.



CJ's Dad, no offense, but the last time I was at Laurel two years ago I thought it was a dump too. 90 degrees outside and humid and they didn't have the air conditioning on in the glass-enclosed stands (probably so Stronach could level them ala Gulfstream, using the reasoning "Well, nobody was using them anymore.") I went to Hawthorne three weeks later and thought I had died and gone to heaven. Hawthorne does not make most lists of "nicest tracks in the U.S." but it sure felt like it in comparison.

[toetoe]

I want to generously offer the facilities at Bay Meadows, where I invested much money in my youth, as the new venue for the Preakness Stakes.

Hey, if the race loses its track, it won't be bound to the East Coast, right ?

[cj's dad]

I have searched and searched and find nada-nil- zero- that ties the Preakness to Baltimore City/Pimlico. If someone/anyone knows different please let me know. I believe that the rights to the Preakness Stakes belong to the Maryland Jockey Club (the MJC which is owned by Stronach:mad::(:bang::ThmbDown:)- which I believe is the oldest thoroughbred horse racing institution in the USA.

therefore,it is my opinion that the Preakness can be moved to any track in America- which i believe will be Gulfstream Park.

I was going to say that i hope I am wrong, but, you know what?, I really don't care anymore.:(

[dylbert]

It appears that MJC is playing Russian roulette hoping that voters will approve slots and save thoroughbred racing in Maryland. Lots of interesting "what ifs" should Pimlico close.

1) Where does Preakness move? Gulfstream Park as long as Stronach controls Magna
2) Do other races move to new venues or simply cease to exist?
3) Does well-liked, highly underrated Dave Rodman bolt from Maryland for Churchill Downs opening? CD announce search today. Interesting, huh?
4) Do breeding operations shift to surrounding states that have healthy programs?

I am sure others here can pose many more questions. Final question is, "will contraction benefit horse racing in mid-Atlantic region."

[JustRalph]

The Preakness at Thistle Downs..............

[Mag]

The Preakness at Thistle Downs..............

:D Or Pinnacle. The real dirt surface there is excellent.:cool:

[phatbastard]

nice job frank.......can't someone force this guy out of the racing business?

[alhattab]

I have searched and searched and find nada-nil- zero- that ties the Preakness to Baltimore City/Pimlico. If someone/anyone knows different please let me know. I believe that the rights to the Preakness Stakes belong to the Maryland Jockey Club (the MJC which is owned by Stronach:mad::(:bang::ThmbDown:)- which I believe is the oldest thoroughbred horse racing institution in the USA.

therefore,it is my opinion that the Preakness can be moved to any track in America- which i believe will be Gulfstream Park.

I was going to say that i hope I am wrong, but, you know what?, I really don't care anymore.:(

You are correct.

Hey they could move the Preakness to the Holy Bull slot on the GP calendar, thus making a more logical sequence for the TC of 1 3/16 miles, 1 1/4 miles and 1 1/2 miles. It would also give 5 weeks to the Belmont. Just what everyone's been asking for!

Or, since Preakness himself was from NJ, they could fittingly move the race to Monmouth Park.

[Bruddah]

You are correct.

Hey they could move the Preakness to the Holy Bull slot on the GP calendar, thus making a more logical sequence for the TC of 1 3/16 miles, 1 1/4 miles and 1 1/2 miles. It would also give 5 weeks to the Belmont. Just what everyone's been asking for!

Or, since Preakness himself was from NJ, they could fittingly move the race to Monmouth Park.

Just responding to your post. If you have figured this out, don't you think Stronach has, as well? Yes, the Preakness is being used as a leverage for slots but I don't think Pimlico can be saved by slots alone. Land Developers in Baltimore have coveted this property since the late 70's and early 80's. I used to spend many happy weekends at Pimlico in those days. Those were my more whiskey, fast horses and cheap women days. Damn they were fun and now just a fading memory! :lol: :D

But here's the rub, the Triple Crown History will never allow it to happen. Horse racing as a whole, is Tradition enforced by Traditionalists. You can take that to the Bank. ;)

[Tom]

nice job frank.......can't someone force this guy out of the racing business?

No one faster than he can do it himself! :D

[cj's dad]

The Preakness at Thistle Downs..............

how many times would the horses have to pass the finish line??:lol:

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

I want to generously offer the facilities at Bay Meadows, where I invested much money in my youth, as the new venue for the Preakness Stakes.

Hey, if the race loses its track, it won't be bound to the East Coast, right ?

Offer declined; Bay Meadows meets the wrecking ball in October. The last day of racing will be 8/17.

[Notso]

Laurel Park is a fine place to hang and play the ponies.
I was there the day before yesterday, yesterday, & today.
They had air-conditioning and plenty to eat and drink.

In case you did not know, Laurel has lots of racing history.
Ever hear of race riders Chris McCarron, Kent Desormeaux, Mario Pino, or Edgar Prado?
Ever hear about these Laurel-based trainers Rick Dutrow, Barclay Tagg, King Leatherbury, Bud Delp and Spectacular Bid?

Laurel Park is a fine place to play

Maryland racing is messed because the DEMOCRATS who rule this state prefer poverty over prosperity.

Nick
Born and Bred in Maryland

[cj's dad]

Laurel Park is a fine place to hang and play the ponies.
I was there the day before yesterday, yesterday, & today.
They had air-conditioning and plenty to eat and drink.

In case you did not know, Laurel has lots of racing history.
Ever hear of race riders Chris McCarron, Kent Desormeaux, Mario Pino, or Edgar Prado?
Ever hear about these Laurel-based trainers Rick Dutrow, Barclay Tagg, King Leatherbury, Bud Delp and Spectacular Bid?

Laurel Park is a fine place to play

Maryland racing is messed because the DEMOCRATS who rule this state prefer poverty over prosperity.

.

Nick
Born and Bred in Maryland

Agree with all you said. I don't know what Laurel Park CNoll went to but it could not have been the same one I go to

[cj]

how many times would the horses have to pass the finish line??:lol:

Thistledown is the same size as Pimlico.

[cj's dad]

Thistledown is the same size as Pimlico.

It's not in good taste to correct your old man:bang:

BTW- send me todays #s

[proximity]

Laurel Park is a fine place to play

Maryland racing is messed because the DEMOCRATS who rule this state prefer poverty over prosperity.

Nick
Born and Bred in Maryland

nick, i'm not sure we should be bringing politics onto the main forum here but apparently maryland needs to IMMEDIATELY fence off the entire perimeter of the state to keep out all of those evil out of state horse owners who are boondogglin' all of that there "prize money." (with the contract for the work of course going to a maryland based barbed wire company)

the next step would be to stop taking bets on maryland races from any non-marylander who has ever cashed a ticket on a maryland race......with the baltimore sun of course printing an accompanying graph: "percentage of maryland race tickets cashed by non-marylanders" :rolleyes:

[Track Collector]

As a fellow Marylander, I have not visited Pim or Lrl for many years. Charles Town, WV races will do just fine for the year-around race track fix.

As to Maryland racing, this year's races at the Timonium Fairgrounds (near Baltimore) are scheduled for 7 days and are just around the corner. Lots of fun and a very enjoyable experience. The fair even has limited simulcasting if 9-10 (live) races do not provide one with enough wagering action.

I particularly like to make it a day/night doubleheader at Timonium and Charles Town on Friday and Saturday nights.:jump:

[proximity]

I particularly like to make it a day/night doubleheader at Timonium and Charles Town :jump:

great post track collector!! imo this must be experienced..... kind of like a rite of passage to becoming a true horseplayer....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[3george3]

Interesting article in today's Washington Post on slots at Laurel. Apparently, even if Maryland votes for slots, Laurel is not guarnteed to get them and must get approval from the Anne Arundel County commissioners, who seem split, at best, on the issue.

It would be ironic if after all of the lobbying for slots by the MD racing industry, the largest "casino" goes up not at Laurel but at the Arundel Mills Outlet Mall.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/09/AR2008080901768.html

[takeout]

[snip]
Franzone said it is possible that Magna could partner with a more established gaming company to bid for a slots license at Laurel Park, a move that might assuage fears about the Canadian company's finances.
[snip]

I’m wondering how that would happen seeing as how Magna has already given away the farm with the slots deal they made with DeFrancis. I can’t picture any gaming company fronting oodles of millions for a slots license that Magna can’t afford when DeFrancis would be getting the lion’s share of the profits. Of course I couldn’t imagine anyone making a deal like that with DeFrancis in the first place. Has that insane 20-year deal been renegotiated?