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rrbauer
08-03-2008, 06:34 PM
Big Brown caught a very weak crop of 3YO's and took care of them but he hasn't moved forward since the Derby and it looked to me like he was all out and lugging out in the lane to win the Haskell.

He doesn't want any part of Curlin and company!

MNslappy
08-03-2008, 06:35 PM
tend to agree

I'd still like to see what he can do with a different rider though, just out of curiosity

PaceAdvantage
08-03-2008, 06:35 PM
Hey Rich, you weren't one of the ones who said he would never race and/or win again, were you? :lol:
And I agree, he didn't look so hot down the stretch...here's hoping he didn't hurt himself....

jognlope
08-03-2008, 06:35 PM
No he needs his feet to rest, please stay out of Travers and have a nice vacation!!

ALostTexan
08-03-2008, 06:41 PM
He doesn't want any part of Curlin and company!

I have no doubt that Zenyatta would smoke him at this point.

Actually, I think that Deweycheatumnhowe might not be too far back...

PaceAdvantage
08-03-2008, 06:51 PM
I have no doubt that Zenyatta would smoke him at this point.

Actually, I think that Deweycheatumnhowe might not be too far back...Come on man, he went in 1:48 1/5 did he not? That's not exactly slouch time for 9 panels....

rrbauer
08-03-2008, 06:57 PM
Hey Rich, you weren't one of the ones who said he would never race and/or win again, were you? :lol:
And I agree, he didn't look so hot down the stretch...here's hoping he didn't hurt himself....

Never said that. I was a BB booster from the get-go. Disappointed like everyone else with the Belmont outcome. Used him today, but after seeing the race, I don't think he's classic material.

Combo Ticket # *************************Wagered**Returned**
(3,4,5,6,8)-(1,7,9)-(4,5,7)-4 84956755088215 45.00 849.10

(3,4,5,6,8)-(1,7)-(1,6,8)-4 93087428480342 30.00 0.00

Shenanigans
08-03-2008, 09:25 PM
Come on man, he went in 1:48 1/5 did he not? That's not exactly slouch time for 9 panels....

Oh, that was a most impressive win. Lugging out the whole way down the lane and just getting up to beat an allowance horse. Where's Curlin?? Bring him on!!!

46zilzal
08-03-2008, 09:26 PM
Come on man, he went in 1:48 1/5 did he not? That's not exactly slouch time for 9 panels....
in a word: UNDER-WHELMING race

Onion Monster
08-03-2008, 09:43 PM
I think the fact that he won, in spite of his connections, speaks to his innate class. Desormeaux is an average speed jock and he refuses to let this horse run in front. I'd love to see what he could do when challenged in a duel. And Dutrow worked him like the Haskell was on poly or turf (too many long works). The connections are afraid of seeing Big Brown lose and it's hurting his overall development.

If they go to the Travers, I hope we only see one sharp 4 or 5 furlong drill and a committment from Desormeaux to let the horse run the race. If not, just retire him now.

And I bet against Big Brown today. I am no BB fanboy.

Shenanigans
08-03-2008, 09:49 PM
I agree. I am no fan of BB merely due to the connections. I am actually starting to feel sorry for the horse. The shots that ESPN showed of the horse being pulled up in the Belmont showed a very peeved horse. It is too bad this horse is in Dutrows barn and owned by a large group of egos.

jonnielu
08-03-2008, 09:51 PM
I think the fact that he won, in spite of his connections, speaks to his innate class. Desormeaux is an average speed jock and he refuses to let this horse run in front. I'd love to see what he could do when challenged in a duel. And Dutrow worked him like the Haskell was on poly or turf (too many long works). The connections are afraid of seeing Big Brown lose and it's hurting his overall development.

If they go to the Travers, I hope we only see one sharp 4 or 5 furlong drill and a committment from Desormeaux to let the horse run the race. If not, just retire him now.

And I bet against Big Brown today. I am no BB fanboy.

Well, I am. I say he can take Curlin too. Too bad KD couldn't learn anything while he was winning those 5000.

jdl

jdl

46zilzal
08-03-2008, 09:53 PM
Well, I am. I say he can take Curlin too. Too bad KD couldn't learn anything while he was winning those 5000.

l
The two are not even close

Shenanigans
08-03-2008, 09:53 PM
Well, I am. I say he can take Curlin too. Too bad KD couldn't learn anything while he was winning those 5000.

jdl

jdl


Yes, bring on Curlin. The Big horse just beat an allowance horse. He's ready for Curlin!!!

sandpit
08-03-2008, 10:13 PM
Ridiculous to even compare him or think about facing Curlin at this point...curiously, the two horses have had parallel careers. Both jumped to the fore of their crop with dynamic races in the spring, both competed in all three Classics, and both ran what looks like a "below their best" in the Haskell. It remains to be seen if BB can develop like Curlin did thru his 3yo season.

Interestingly, the connections of both horses have some of the same issues as well: trainers are both known for and suspended for cheating (toss up b/n who has been caught more); and their owners have both been investigated by the authorities (Curlin's owners have the edge here).

big frank
08-03-2008, 10:17 PM
Big Browm does not look like a sound horse and i hope he is retired before we see him get hurt badly.. He drifted out badly the last 1/4 mile and he looks like he is not 100 % . He is a good horse ,, but this is the worst 3yo crop in a long time.. I would take the filly MUSIC NOTE against any other male 3yo. I hope she runs in the travers .

Charlie D
08-03-2008, 10:28 PM
Well, I am. I say he can take Curlin too. Too bad KD couldn't learn anything while he was winning those 5000.

jdl

jdl


I say Curlin will do to Big Brown what Curlin did to Asiatic Boy in Dubai world Cup

Cratos
08-03-2008, 11:04 PM
Well, I am. I say he can take Curlin too. Too bad KD couldn't learn anything while he was winning those 5000.

jdl

jdl

I think he should be put in against Well Armed first because he is nowhere near the level of Curlin

Hank
08-03-2008, 11:10 PM
Well, I am. I say he can take Curlin too. Too bad KD couldn't learn anything while he was winning those 5000.

jdl

jdl

:lol::D:lol:

David-LV
08-03-2008, 11:36 PM
Both Big Brown and Curlin probably will get beat on that Synthetic Garbage that Santa Anita is installing.

Real horse racing is racing on dirt or grass and not that Synthetic garbage.

Remember my prediction come the fall. :rolleyes:

_________
David

PaceAdvantage
08-03-2008, 11:41 PM
Oh, that was a most impressive win. Lugging out the whole way down the lane and just getting up to beat an allowance horse. Where's Curlin?? Bring him on!!!If he's not hurt, I'm not concerned. He has done this before...his stretch run in the Floriday Derby was erratic as well.

If he indeed did get a 106 Beyer as mentioned in another thread, this puts him not too far off of Curlin. For a first race back off the Belmont disaster, I find it hard to be as pessimistic as you seem to be....

rrbauer
08-04-2008, 09:36 AM
If he's not hurt, I'm not concerned. He has done this before...his stretch run in the Floriday Derby was erratic as well.

If he indeed did get a 106 Beyer as mentioned in another thread, this puts him not too far off of Curlin. For a first race back off the Belmont disaster, I find it hard to be as pessimistic as you seem to be....

BSF's for Curlin since his Derby:
111,107,105,114,119,118,119,110 and a turf race.

BSF's for BB since his Derby:
100,DNF,99/106 depending on who you listen to.

How you make any argument for BB from these figs escapes me.

PaceAdvantage
08-04-2008, 10:12 AM
How you make any argument for BB from these figs escapes me.Obviously, I'm counting on further development as he matures into the fall. If he's running near 106 now, first race off the Belmont fiasco, a 110+ in November is certainly within the realm.

I don't think Curlin is going to improve much between now and the fall.

Of course, if somehow BB is able to beat Curlin in the BC, then we'll have everyone chalking it up to Curlin not liking synthetics, but we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it...

magwell
08-04-2008, 10:26 AM
Cant we just be glad he came back and ran OK ?? {I still think he bled in the Belmont} Lets hope he can continue this year and maybe run in the BC at SA :cool:

DJofSD
08-04-2008, 10:52 AM
Obviously, I'm counting on further development as he matures into the fall. If he's running near 106 now, first race off the Belmont fiasco, a 110+ in November is certainly within the realm.

I don't think Curlin is going to improve much between now and the fall.

Of course, if somehow BB is able to beat Curlin in the BC, then we'll have everyone chalking it up to Curlin not liking synthetics, but we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it...
Mike, I think I'm in agreement with you.

He's still a three year old. Who said he's fully developed and done learning?

The stock market does not go straight up or down. Horses do not develop in a straight line either.

Maybe he didn't beat a good crop of three year olds this year. Perhaps the field he faced at Monmouth did not have any world beaters in it. But he still won, not as easily as prior races but a win is a win.

I, for one, would like to see the horse race more. Not necessarily against Curlin or in a BC race. But just to see the horse develop his true potential. If he is retired to the breeding shed, I don't think we'll ever know if he's just the best of the bad crop or if he can achieve true greatness.

ghostyapper
08-04-2008, 11:46 AM
I don't think Curlin is going to improve much between now and the fall.

Curlin is so good that he made everyone forget about the post-dubai fall off. His 110 figure that you keeping hanging your hat on as proof BB can compete with him came after a dubai trip and 2 1/2 month layoff.

If BB is somehow able to improve and run a 110 in the fall that will put him 5 lengths behind a curlin peak effort.

Shenanigans
08-04-2008, 08:00 PM
If he's not hurt, I'm not concerned. He has done this before...his stretch run in the Floriday Derby was erratic as well.

If he indeed did get a 106 Beyer as mentioned in another thread, this puts him not too far off of Curlin. For a first race back off the Belmont disaster, I find it hard to be as pessimistic as you seem to be....


His feet have been bothering him his entire racing career!!! That's why he ran the way he did in the FL Derby.
Beyers are numbers and nothing more. BB getting a 106 still does not put him in the same class as Curlin. BB is a nice horse, but he is no where in Curlins league. All this talk about BB and Curlin remind me of Bernardini and Invasor. Invasor ended up spanking the 3 yr old. Remember?

PaceAdvantage
08-05-2008, 02:12 AM
His feet have been bothering him his entire racing career!!! That's why he ran the way he did in the FL Derby.
Beyers are numbers and nothing more. BB getting a 106 still does not put him in the same class as Curlin. BB is a nice horse, but he is no where in Curlins league. All this talk about BB and Curlin remind me of Bernardini and Invasor. Invasor ended up spanking the 3 yr old. Remember?Yes, his feet can do him in at any moment...a very valid point. It's up to Dutrow to keep that from happening, and we all know how you feel about him...

jonnielu
08-05-2008, 06:14 AM
BSF's for Curlin since his Derby:
111,107,105,114,119,118,119,110 and a turf race.

BSF's for BB since his Derby:
100,DNF,99/106 depending on who you listen to.

How you make any argument for BB from these figs escapes me.

If a BSR were at all reflective of a horses ability to run, you might be able to get a rough idea of any differences between the two horses by comparing their Preakness BSR.

But, that would be like comparing the times, and you know that won't give you much.

Whatever the ability is, the bettor will come out ahead betting that horse whose limits are unknown, against any horse whose limits are known.

jdl

rrbauer
08-05-2008, 07:26 AM
If a BSR were at all reflective of a horses ability to run, you might be able to get a rough idea of any differences between the two horses by comparing their Preakness BSR.

But, that would be like comparing the times, and you know that won't give you much.

Whatever the ability is, the bettor will come out ahead betting that horse whose limits are unknown, against any horse whose limits are known.

jdl

BB's limits are well known. You've seen his best. I know that you've been around this game a long time----so have I. He has lost his monster turn-of-foot. Why? I don't know, but it's gone and so is any chance of him competing against older and at classic distances in his current condition.

I'm not rooting against the horse. But my eyes do not lie. If indeed he has foot problems the connections would be wise to move him to the turf which should be kinder on his feet and perhaps he could move forward on that surface.

Mag
08-05-2008, 08:15 AM
A lot can happen between now and the BC. They need to meet in the BCC and make it a real contest for the fans, without whom there would be no racing. Both sides needs to remember where the purses come from.

KingChas
08-05-2008, 08:21 AM
He doesn't want any part of Curlin and company!

Anyone care to refresh me on the company part of this?

Hasn't Curlin also been beating up on a weak group of older horses?

KingChas
08-05-2008, 08:42 AM
Both Big Brown and Curlin probably will get beat on that Synthetic Garbage that Santa Anita is installing.

Real horse racing is racing on dirt or grass and not that Synthetic garbage.

Remember my prediction come the fall. :rolleyes:

_________
David


Monba Rules- "King of the Synthetic Garbage" :lol:

Bubbles
08-05-2008, 09:03 AM
1:48 1/5 definitely isn't a slouch time, but do keep in mind that this is Monmouth Superspeedway we're talking about. That track can be VERY fast. I'm a big times guy, and from experience, I tend to think that horses who ship out of Monmouth usually don't replicate those times in their next starts (Gulfstream also falls in this realm).

Put me in the Curlin camp. It's not that I think Big Brown is a bum, but I think if you put them head-to-head, Curlin wins by three lengths or so.

ghostyapper
08-05-2008, 09:04 AM
Anyone care to refresh me on the company part of this?

Hasn't Curlin also been beating up on a weak group of older horses?

Well Armed
Tiago
Go Between
Student Council
Commentator

All these are in better form than BB right now.

Marshall Bennett
08-05-2008, 09:23 AM
Big Brown would destroy Tiago in a match race on dirt , wouldn't even be close .

ghostyapper
08-05-2008, 09:31 AM
Big Brown would destroy Tiago in a match race on dirt , wouldn't even be close .

Tiago's last dirt race was better than any of brown's career races and it came against MUCH better competition.

Imriledup
08-05-2008, 06:11 PM
Big Brown would destroy Tiago in a match race on dirt , wouldn't even be close .

Tiago is sore these days, not doing so well.

jonnielu
08-05-2008, 10:29 PM
BB's limits are well known. You've seen his best. I know that you've been around this game a long time----so have I. He has lost his monster turn-of-foot. Why? I don't know, but it's gone and so is any chance of him competing against older and at classic distances in his current condition.

I'm not rooting against the horse. But my eyes do not lie. If indeed he has foot problems the connections would be wise to move him to the turf which should be kinder on his feet and perhaps he could move forward on that surface.

Nothing has happened to BB except that the human beings involved got scared of losing. At the point that they decide to let him run it his way, he'll be right back.

jdl

PaceAdvantage
08-06-2008, 04:02 AM
All these are in better form than BB right now.A shocking thing to say about a horse whose career record currently stands at six wins from seven starts.

Shenanigans
08-06-2008, 07:36 AM
Yes, his feet can do him in at any moment...a very valid point. It's up to Dutrow to keep that from happening, and we all know how you feel about him...

How I feel about Dutrow has nothing to do with how well he can keep BB's feet together. The horse has his sires feet. Dutrow is stuck with that. Not much can be done except handle the horse with kid gloves.
BTW, as much as you want to believe that I have a doll of Dutrow with pins sticking out of it....... I hate to burst your little bubble..... I don't.:rolleyes:

Shenanigans
08-06-2008, 07:37 AM
A shocking thing to say about a horse whose career record currently stands at six wins from seven starts.

I know a lot of claimers with better records.:lol:

Shenanigans
08-06-2008, 07:39 AM
Nothing has happened to BB except that the human beings involved got scared of losing. At the point that they decide to let him run it his way, he'll be right back.

jdl

Finding him new feet wouldn't hurt either.

jonnielu
08-06-2008, 08:05 AM
Finding him new feet wouldn't hurt either.

Sure, his feet have been a huge problem and tremendous impediment. I guess that if his feet were much better, then he could completely lap the field to still be no-good.

jdl

RichieP
08-06-2008, 08:09 AM
Sure, his feet have been a huge problem and tremendous impediment. I guess that if his feet were much better, then he could completely lap the field to still be no-good.

jdl

:lol::lol::ThmbUp:

socantra
08-06-2008, 10:33 AM
I know a lot of claimers with better records.:lol:

Could you please point me to some of those claimers with records better than 6 for 7. We don't seem to find many of them around here.

Marshall Bennett
08-06-2008, 10:43 AM
A shocking thing to say about a horse whose career record currently stands at six wins from seven starts.
Whats amazing is heres a horse that wins both the Derby & Preakness ( destroys the fields ) , and for the most part , at least in this forum , gets very little respect . Grade 1 wins , one career loss . Forget the trainer for a moment , check back and compare what he's done with others in past years . Many say he competed against a weak crop , BULLSHIT !! , he only made them look like a weak crop . Blame his trainer or jockey all you want , I get goose bumps every time I watch his derby win . That was special . Folks that " hate " this horse for whatever reason need to find another sport , because IMO it doesn't get much better .

Charlie D
08-06-2008, 10:59 AM
. Many say he competed against a weak crop , BULLSHIT !! , he only made them look like a weak crop . .


Can you name me which 2008 3yo's you consider genuine Grade 1 horses besides Big Brown

Marshall Bennett
08-06-2008, 12:38 PM
Can you name me which 2008 3yo's you consider genuine Grade 1 horses besides Big Brown
Any that raced against him in a grade 1 race .

ghostyapper
08-06-2008, 01:30 PM
Any that raced against him in a grade 1 race .

Thats a good criteria, any horse that runs in a g1 race is a g1 caliber horse. I'd give a list of horses to prove how wrong you are but that would take too long.

Marshall Bennett
08-06-2008, 03:34 PM
Thats a good criteria, any horse that runs in a g1 race is a g1 caliber horse. I'd give a list of horses to prove how wrong you are but that would take too long.
Go ahead , 90% of your post are negative about the game , I'd find something else to do .

46zilzal
08-06-2008, 03:36 PM
Thats a good criteria, any horse that runs in a g1 race is a g1 caliber horse. I'd give a list of horses to prove how wrong you are but that would take too long.
Horses don't read the condition book, they just run. It is only the racing office that makes up these levels.

46zilzal
08-06-2008, 04:01 PM
First one has to be versed in the historical yardstick of thoroughbred class.

Unless you have a foundation of knowing Domino, Black Gold, Nellie Flag, Sysonby, Colin, Fager, Exterminator,Phar Lap, etc. then you have no objective comparative criteria.

Who did they beat?

How did that handle adversity? poor starts, off tracks, problems (Afleet Alex's Preakness or Alysheba's Derby)

How fast did they run?

How adaptable was their style? : Forego was one of the best at this.

How much weight did they successfully carry. A real lost aspect nowadays.

And some gain extra points by being good in the breeding shed: Prospector, Northern Dancer, Danzig

The UPS color bearer has few points in ANY of these areas

Pace Cap'n
08-06-2008, 04:45 PM
I know a lot of claimers with better records.:lol:

Name one.

Pace Cap'n
08-06-2008, 04:49 PM
Can you name me which 2008 3yo's you consider genuine Grade 1 horses besides Big Brown

There is no such animal as a "Grade ! horse". Races are graded, not the runners.

Shenanigans
08-06-2008, 06:40 PM
Sure, his feet have been a huge problem and tremendous impediment. I guess that if his feet were much better, then he could completely lap the field to still be no-good.

jdl

Don't be so hard on the horse. It's not his fault he inherited bad feet.

ghostyapper
08-06-2008, 07:16 PM
Go ahead , 90% of your post are negative about the game , I'd find something else to do .

Yea whatever. I'm still waiting for the factor you used to determine that BB is a faster horse than Curlin.

And labeling anyone that does not buy into the "BB is great" crap as a negative person is pretty lame. I bet you were one of those waxing poetic about Bernardini a couple years ago too.

ghostyapper
08-06-2008, 07:18 PM
There is no such animal as a "Grade ! horse". Races are graded, not the runners.

So what is the word you use to describe horses that are top level?

Marshall Bennett
08-06-2008, 08:13 PM
Yea whatever. I'm still waiting for the factor you used to determine that BB is a faster horse than Curlin.

And labeling anyone that does not buy into the "BB is great" crap as a negative person is pretty lame. I bet you were one of those waxing poetic about Bernardini a couple years ago too.
The factor I'm using is my opinion , good enough for me . Never said BB was great either . Beleive he's been a bright spot for the sport which you obviously feel otherwise . As for Bernardini , was a fine horse , obviously you feel he was substandard as is BB . What in the world are you waiting for ??

ghostyapper
08-06-2008, 08:44 PM
The factor I'm using is my opinion , good enough for me . Never said BB was great either . Beleive he's been a bright spot for the sport which you obviously feel otherwise . As for Bernardini , was a fine horse , obviously you feel he was substandard as is BB . What in the world are you waiting for ??

That's great that your opinion is good enough for you. Unfortunately this is a message board and people expect proof or facts to go along with your opinion. Try a blog if you don't want to back up your opinion with substance

Yes Big Brown (or any star) is good for the sport. That doesn't mean we have to seek out the silver lining in a race where he was expected to waltz over the field and he barely nipped an allowance horse at the wire.

Try to stay on topic though, this thread is whether BB can compete with the top handicap horses, namely Curlin. I say he has no shot against Curlin. Guess that makes me a horse racing hater according to your twisted logic. Keep drinking the kool-aid

joanied
08-06-2008, 09:00 PM
Whats amazing is heres a horse that wins both the Derby & Preakness ( destroys the fields ) , and for the most part , at least in this forum , gets very little respect . Grade 1 wins , one career loss . Forget the trainer for a moment , check back and compare what he's done with others in past years . Many say he competed against a weak crop , BULLSHIT !! , he only made them look like a weak crop . Blame his trainer or jockey all you want , I get goose bumps every time I watch his derby win . That was special . Folks that " hate " this horse for whatever reason need to find another sport , because IMO it doesn't get much better .

Well now, Marshall B...very, very well said:ThmbUp: Outstanding!!!

Shenanigans
08-07-2008, 09:15 AM
That's great that your opinion is good enough for you. Unfortunately this is a message board and people expect proof or facts to go along with your opinion. Try a blog if you don't want to back up your opinion with substance

Yes Big Brown (or any star) is good for the sport. That doesn't mean we have to seek out the silver lining in a race where he was expected to waltz over the field and he barely nipped an allowance horse at the wire.

Try to stay on topic though, this thread is whether BB can compete with the top handicap horses, namely Curlin. I say he has no shot against Curlin. Guess that makes me a horse racing hater according to your twisted logic. Keep drinking the kool-aid

I guess I am in the same boat with you. I guess I am a horse racing hater since I don't feel BB is in the same league as Curlin.
If any horse is "good for the sport" it has been Curlin. This horse has showed up at many dances and has been consistent throughout. Sure, he didn't win the Derby last year, but what he has done was improve throughout his career. That is impressive to me. Winning the KD and slowly regressing is disappointing to say the least. However, with BB, he does have a legit excuse - bad feet. Pardon me (to all you folks that seem to think not being a BB fan is blasphemy to racing) but I just can't get excited about a horse that is going to show up every 2 months to beat allowance company horses. And pardon me for being more impressed with Curlin. Some of us tend to set higher standards to warrant an "impressive" tag on a horse

magwell
08-07-2008, 09:58 AM
:cool: How about this........ can we all agree BB is in the top 5 of horses this year ??:)

SylvanNash
08-07-2008, 10:23 AM
I guess I am in the same boat with you. I guess I am a horse racing hater since I don't feel BB is in the same league as Curlin.
If any horse is "good for the sport" it has been Curlin. This horse has showed up at many dances and has been consistent throughout. Sure, he didn't win the Derby last year, but what he has done was improve throughout his career. That is impressive to me. Winning the KD and slowly regressing is disappointing to say the least. However, with BB, he does have a legit excuse - bad feet. Pardon me (to all you folks that seem to think not being a BB fan is blasphemy to racing) but I just can't get excited about a horse that is going to show up every 2 months to beat allowance company horses. And pardon me for being more impressed with Curlin. Some of us tend to set higher standards to warrant an "impressive" tag on a horse

It's good that you have "high standards", but Curlin didn't run in the Travers after the Haskell either. Was Asmussen trying to avoid the "big boys", Street Sense in particular. It seems so according to your logic. By your standards, that doesn't warrant an "impressive" tag, nor does Curlin's 3rd place Haskell.

But the fact is, Curlin was/is an impressive horse - and so is Big Brown. Trainers do what they do - that includes doing what's best for the horse and team. However, if you don't like a horse or trainer that's fine - don't put your money there.

Shenanigans
08-07-2008, 06:04 PM
It's good that you have "high standards", but Curlin didn't run in the Travers after the Haskell either. Was Asmussen trying to avoid the "big boys", Street Sense in particular. It seems so according to your logic. By your standards, that doesn't warrant an "impressive" tag, nor does Curlin's 3rd place Haskell.

But the fact is, Curlin was/is an impressive horse - and so is Big Brown. Trainers do what they do - that includes doing what's best for the horse and team. However, if you don't like a horse or trainer that's fine - don't put your money there.

You're right, maybe he doesn't warrant an impressive tag from me..... he won three straight races before the KD (crushing the field in all three), yes he finished third in the Derby... his rider should have pulled him up once he saw he wasn't going to win.... he wins the Preakness then gives racing fans a nice battle down the stretch with a nice, "fresh" filly... his "lackluster" effort in the Haskell was disappointing especially after his grueling spring campaign - again, his rider should have pulled him up in that race. He wins the JCGC and if I remember correctly, wins the BC.... then jets off to Dubai and wins two races over there..... comes back to the states, wins the Stephen Foster and finishes second in his first turf race to one of the top turf horses in the world. Damn, you're right, he does NOT warrant an "impressive" tag from me.....:rolleyes:

KingChas
08-08-2008, 09:15 AM
http://www.timeform.com/display_articles.asp?page=Global_Rankings.asp

Curlin,Big Brown,where's the rest?
Can't seem to find any of the other great(lol) older horses from the U.S. that were mentioned by some in this thread. :eek:

SylvanNash
08-08-2008, 11:30 AM
You're right, maybe he doesn't warrant an impressive tag from me..... he won three straight races before the KD (crushing the field in all three), yes he finished third in the Derby... his rider should have pulled him up once he saw he wasn't going to win.... he wins the Preakness then gives racing fans a nice battle down the stretch with a nice, "fresh" filly... his "lackluster" effort in the Haskell was disappointing especially after his grueling spring campaign - again, his rider should have pulled him up in that race. He wins the JCGC and if I remember correctly, wins the BC.... then jets off to Dubai and wins two races over there..... comes back to the states, wins the Stephen Foster and finishes second in his first turf race to one of the top turf horses in the world. Damn, you're right, he does NOT warrant an "impressive" tag from me.....:rolleyes:

You're comparing apples and oranges. Big Brown is still a three year old. If this was post-Haskell 2007, your logic would imply Curlin was not an "impressive" horse. Curlin's 4-year old campaign is impressive, yet irrelevant.

I will agree, pulling Big Brown up definately left a bad taste in my mouth. If you're going to run the race, at least be gracious enough to lose with dignity. The thing is, Big Brown didn't quit - Kent D. did. There was a lot of track left. Frankly, I'm surprised Kent didn't pull-up in the Haskell.

ghostyapper
08-08-2008, 11:45 AM
http://www.timeform.com/display_articles.asp?page=Global_Rankings.asp

Curlin,Big Brown,where's the rest?
Can't seem to find any of the other great(lol) older horses from the U.S. that were mentioned by some in this thread. :eek:

Here they are

http://www.drf.com/drfLeaderBoard.do?category=beyer

Check the dirt more than 1 mile list

Cratos
08-08-2008, 11:49 AM
http://www.timeform.com/display_articles.asp?page=Global_Rankings.asp

Curlin,Big Brown,where's the rest?
Can't seem to find any of the other great(lol) older horses from the U.S. that were mentioned by some in this thread. :eek:

Well Armed, Zenyetta, and Benny the Bull should be on anyone's list of top horses in North America for 2008. I might even add Ginger Punch

Shenanigans
08-08-2008, 05:25 PM
You're comparing apples and oranges. Big Brown is still a three year old. If this was post-Haskell 2007, your logic would imply Curlin was not an "impressive" horse. Curlin's 4-year old campaign is impressive, yet irrelevant.

I will agree, pulling Big Brown up definately left a bad taste in my mouth. If you're going to run the race, at least be gracious enough to lose with dignity. The thing is, Big Brown didn't quit - Kent D. did. There was a lot of track left. Frankly, I'm surprised Kent didn't pull-up in the Haskell.

Ummmm... Curlin was a 3 yr old last year. He did a lot of his impressing last year.... but you're right, we are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to those two horses - there is no comparison.

SylvanNash
08-08-2008, 07:44 PM
Ummmm... Curlin was a 3 yr old last year. He did a lot of his impressing last year.... but you're right, we are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to those two horses - there is no comparison.

Ummm, I know Curlin was 3 last year - that's why I mentioned the 2007 Haskell - and that Curlin didn't run the Travers either. You can't say 'to this point' (with the exception of Belmont) that Big Brown's career to date is less impressive than Curlin's of 07...at this point in his career. Sure, it doesn't help that Kent is aboard or that BB has the "John Daly" of horse trainers. Aside from Dutrow's trash talk about Curlin, if they do happen to meet later this year, my money will be on Curlin - unless I see something really "impressive" from BB before then. Nonetheless, most people's problem with BB is because of all the hype and subsequent failure at the Belmont. I know Kent claimed to be worried about "their investment", but he certainly wasn't worried about anybody else's investment - I definately lost on that race. But, I don't hold it against Big Brown. Sure Big Brown is beatable, we all know this - but saying they're afraid of the "big boys" because they aren't running in the Travers isn't really fair. But, whatever.