Why Not??

[Bob Harris]

Group,

This topic came up with some of the everyday players here in Reno and I really didn't have a good answer.

Why do racetracks, for the most part, insist on running during the day? In an age of declining interest, why would you exhibit your product when the vast majority of people are working and can't attend?

Is it really necessary to work horses at 5am? Couldn't we race at night, sleep in a bit and work our horses at 8:30?

Why do we now have lights at Wrigley Field? Is there a reason that ABC decided * not * to have "Monday Afternoon Football"?

Is racing shooting itself in the foot with this tradition??

[BIG HIT]

To answer your question simply yes!!!.They also encourage or say come out and bet your number.In stead of telling people you got more of a chance at the track than you do at the casino [ with a little knowledge] They could be more people friendly like the casino.

[smf]

Bob, I've wondered the same thing since I began handicapping on a regular basis.

I always thought that if one of the struggling networks (wb, upn, etc...) would pick up 3 tracks at 7pm and run till the card closes, their ratings would go up.

Surely it would surpass Moesha or Dawsons Creek!

They could start by running 1 or 2 nights a week, and use the same 3 tracks/ circuits for familiarity purposes. If it caught on, it c/b a wed-fri event.

Kinda like 'Cops' and reality tv shows, the overhead w/b minimal.

[Dave Schwartz]

Bob,

And the tracks are listening to everything we suggest to make racing better, right? <G>

Eeennnnggghhh! That was the sound of Beluah the Buzzer. She says, "No. The tracks don't really care."

Running at night is a great idea. All other sports have embraced it and yet racing ignores it.

And the odd thing is that it is not like they are diurnal creatures. horses are quite happy at night.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Tom]

In NY, they don't race at night becasue the law prohibits
them. The harness industry in NY is very strong (politically) and very afraid of competition. The history of harness racing in NY is filled with corrucption, race fixing, drugging, every illegale thing you could think of. They destroyed the public's faith in the business (I refuse to call harness racing a sport). If Belmont ran at 7pm, you could kiss goodbeye every NY harness track at the OTB parlors-there is just not a large following for it. Yet the jugheads het to run during the day anytimne they want to. Not fair. If every there was welfare, it Harness racing in NY.

Just look at Penn, Mnr, CT, Evd.....running at night and doing fine. These tracks get my money nowadays-I seldom play much during the day except the big ones or if they are on TV.

Another point Dave makes-the tracks don't care. The guy running the show get thier money, prestige, whatever, off the top. The leeches that they are, they would not how to actually strategize a business or make executive descions. These are the strut and run guys-alsways on camera, always saying the politically correct thing, but never actually doing anything. Look at NYRA-how many years did it take to finally realizr that people wanted the uniform saddle cloth colors? Boy, these guys are on the cutting edge. It is too bad we don't have lot of kids dropping out of school in the fifth grade-they could sure as hell do a better job than the guys we got now.
For you guys on the left coast to play Belmont, what time do you have to start-9:30-10:00am? Man, that's breakfast time.

Tom

[karlskorner]

Bob;

CRC tried 3 PM posts on Fridays for a couple of years, nothing, nada, zip. A complete failure.

The "elder" who are the main attendants during the day live by a set of rules. Dinner/supper at 6 PM, Lowell Thomas at 7 PM and " early to bed, early to rise".

What all ways amazed me though was the "freebies". Send out 40,000 free passes and have 10-12,000 show up (in advertising if you get a 25% response in direct mail, you hit pay dirt"). The handle triples, food sales are up, parking fees are up, the place is jumping. I have made numerous suggestios to management, one they used was $1.00 Grandstand admission, until the "bean counters" put a stop to that.

The one problem I see with your suggestion is the "caretakers" (grooms, hotwalkers, etc.), if you are going to run 1/5th of your horse population each night, the other 95% of the stabled horses demand attention come morning. After the evening races there is a certain amount of "work" to be done, you just don't bed the horse down. Since most grooms, hotwalkers, etc. are usually responsible for more than 1 horse and could be up until 11-12 PM, than get up again at 4:30 to take care of his other charges, is asking a little a lot from these underpaid devoted people.

Karl

[Dave Schwartz]

Karl,

A well thought post.

You bring up an excellent point (about the back stretch personnel). Of course, if the race tracks ever figured out that night baseball saved the sport and that it might make them more money, they'd replace the hotwalkers with robots if they had to.

I have heard that one of the big complaints on the backstretch at Hollywood is that Saturday racing is hard to put on after a late night. Supposedly there are trainers that don't like having a 9th race mount and a 1st race mount the next day. (Bear in mind that they have just a little more clout than horse players do. Not much, but a little.)


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Bob Harris]

Karl,

That's a good point about Florida...with the elderly population there I'm not sure they would gain anything by racing at night...the same is probably true for Turf Paradise in Phoenix.

I understand that the grooms would have to stay up later at night but do they still need to get up at 4:30 to take care of the rest of the animals? It seems that if you pushed the racing back a few hours, everything else could be pushed back too.

It amazes me that the tracks haven't figured out that their up front charges of parking, admission, program, etc., are killing the attendence in this age of lotteries, Indian casinos, and internet wagering. Like your Calder example, they would be much better off if everyone got in free. If one of the local Reno casinos said "Hey everyone, we are going to offer single 0 roulette from now on but we need to charge you 10.00 to enter the building" they would lose customers by the droves.

Thanks for your comments!

Bob

[karlskorner]

Dave;

Few people realize the amount of "work" involved getting a horse ready for a race and the amount of "work" involved after the race has been run.

Something that I have been looking at for a long time and it's what I call " back to back " Where ever possible a trainer, if he is to run more than 1 horse on the card, will, when ever possible, try to place his horses as close as he can ( 1st and 2nd race, 3rd and 5th race. etc), reason being the amount of "work" involved before and after the race. They are not delighted in the last 2 races as this means his "crew" has to work later etc.

My personal interest in "back to back" (print out a program and "highlight" when a trainer has horses running in the 2nd, 3rd & 5th race etc) for no rhyme or reason one of them wins and one or two possibly will at least be in the money. Trouble is I can't figure out which one will win, but I have been watching for a looong time.

Oh by the way, I am alive and well, thank you, a little scarred and censored, but alive and well.

Karl

[karlskorner]

Bob:

Your suggestion of "pushing the races back a couple of hours" won't work.

Reason being, the horse is one of the dumbest animals, if not "the" dumbest, that God put on this earth, with a brain the size of a plum.

When the sun breaks over the shedrow, he wants, no he demands "attention"

Karl

[Tom]

Maybe if they ran at night, the average age of people at the track would be under 72.
When I go to Woodbine every year for night racing, the place is packed and it seems I might be the oldest guy there. Anyone go to Penn, Mnr, CT, Evd?
What's it like there at night?
Tom

[Lefty]

Hol has been running Fri nights for years and the handle hasn't went up. This year they're racing mid-afternoon cards on Fri because of the energy crunch.
So the idea of nights sounds logical but those pesky facts don't bear it out.

[karlskorner]

Tom;

Unfortunately it's the elder that are keeping the tracks open, the probable reason Woodbine is humming at night is because these people all have day jobs, mortgages and rent to pay, car payments to meet and kids teeth to straighten. For $2.00 it's probably the best "game" in town. They buy a simulcast program on the way into the track and start winging it. Couple more visits and their GONE. They have more luck with the office pool or a lottery ticket. I read on another thread that blamed management, I truly believe management is well aware of whats going on around them and the last thing they are looking forward to is downsizing.

Sometime ago I realized I knew "nothing" about horseracing, I considered myself a "fair" handicapper, but knew nothing about the business. How the hell did the horse get onto the track ? So I bought some books on breeding, the raising of yearlings, etc. Then I bought some moe books on getting the horse "ready" for the track, then some more books on training and finally a couple of books on Veterinary practice (the dark side of horseracing). There is a whole other side to horseracing that we as handicappers are not aware of,
and these people (thousands upon thousands) are just as anxious as you are to fill the stands.

Karl

[ceejay]

Originally posted by Tom
Maybe if they ran at night, the average age of people at the track would be under 72.
When I go to Woodbine every year for night racing, the place is packed and it seems I might be the oldest guy there. Anyone go to Penn, Mnr, CT, Evd?
What's it like there at night?
Tom

Night racing does seem to lower the average age in the stands, and that can only be good for the sport. At Remington Pk, they started night racing and specials (such as $1 Bud or Coors on different nites, $1 admission for all or just women), and insted of nothing they play Rock and Roll between races. They do some promotion and attendance for the weekday cards in the winter was up from about 1500 for daytime cards to 3500 at night (and most have day jobs and wouldn't make an afternoon card). Not huge numbers but from a fairly small metro area pretty good and the first turnaround in a while. Handles were way up both on-track and simo.

I think that the major tracks will run when they want and the smaller venues will fill in nights and Tuesdays.

[HorseLady]

I believe in NY you cannot bet after 7 or 7:30pm on Throughbred racing. I agree though that later racing would be nicer so those who work can get out to the track.

There are some gorgeous days that I would have loved to bring the kids to the track (Belmont is really kid friendly) but since my son gets out of school at 3pm, I already would have missed half the card. Friday's are night with the 3pm first post (though the press hates it because they still have their early deadlines) :)