Bill to eliminate 25% tax

[karlskorner]

7/29/08

A bill introduced in the United States House of Representatives on Tuesday
would eliminate the 25% federal withholding on pari-mutuel winnings of
$5000 or more for bets that carry odds of 300-1 or more.

Representative Charles W. Boustany Jr. (R-Louisiana) sponsers the bill named
the Pari-Mutuel Conformity and Equality Act of 2008.

The withholding threshold has been unchanged in the Internal Revenue Code
since it was increased from $1000 to $5000 in 1992. Exotic wagering has
grown dramatically in that period.

"The negative impact of withholding is muti
-faceted" said Peggy Hendershot,
the National Thoroughbred Racing Assoc.'s senior vice president of
legislative affairs. "For the betting public, it has meant a confiscatory and
frequently unfair loss of available capital. That loss of reinvestment or "churn" leads to a reduction in overall wagering that in turn means less
revenue generated for state governments, racetracks, and purse money for
horsemen.

"Our industry and our fans applaud Congressman Boustany for introducing
this important legislaton and we look forward to working with our new
Horseplayers' Coalition to add support to this initiative"

[Bruddah]

because I hope it happens. However, this legislation is all "eye candy" and no substance or Chance in Hell of passing this Congress, or the next. If it does somehow pass, it would be a perfect example of Nero (Congress) fiddling while Rome burned.

This is the most corrupt, ineffectual Congress in my Lifetime. With the pressing problems facing this Country, there is complete Political gridlock. In other words, these SOB's are p*ssing me off. :mad:

In the "Cold War" era, we made fun of Russian politics because it was about the Communist Party. Their members swore allegiance to the PARTY over the needs of their Country. Hence, the fall of Communism. It is no better than these idiots (US Legislators) taking PARTY lines (Dem. & Rep.)

Swearing allegiance to the Party vs the country will lead to this Country's collapse.

[socantra]

This is the most corrupt, ineffectual Congress in my Lifetime. With the pressing problems facing this Country, there is complete Political gridlock. In other words, these SOB's are p*ssing me off. :mad:


Thank you karlskorner, for the news about a bill that might well be of interest to people on this board.

[big frank]

hi all ,,, i have been playing along time ,, but just this year did i start playing exotics like pick 4s @ have been lucky 3 times this year when i went over the number and they withheld the taxes .. i was reading that i should get all of it back ,,,, but what type of records do i need to show losses ? i heard about picking up losing tickets but i heard you could just right down your record.. i am sure there are plenty of members here who hit big signers and how do you handle getting your money back at the end of the year ? thanks

[karlskorner]

I would think and hope the newly formed HANA and the other 2 handicappers groups should be all over this Congressman. It's a big step, if he can keep
it moving.

[BillW]

Just a note re. the title of this thread. This bill will not eliminate the tax on winnings, only the mandatory withholding when you cash the ticket.

[Pace Cap'n]

hi all ,,, i have been playing along time ,, but just this year did i start playing exotics like pick 4s @ have been lucky 3 times this year when i went over the number and they withheld the taxes .. i was reading that i should get all of it back ,,,, but what type of records do i need to show losses ? i heard about picking up losing tickets but i heard you could just right down your record.. i am sure there are plenty of members here who hit big signers and how do you handle getting your money back at the end of the year ? thanks

First of all, you will need the services of a competent tax preparer. I would suggest a CPA.

Your winnings will be reported on Form 1040 as "Other Income". Your losses will be entered on Schedule A as itemized deductions. Losing tickets are deductible to the extent of your winnings. You should keep all pertinent records of the dates and amounts of your bets. Records may include losing tickets, marked-up forms and/or programs, or a printout from an ADW.

It is not advisable to scoop tickets off the floor. A sharp auditor can spot irregularities in betting patterns.

[BlueShoe]

This is a step in the right direction,but does not go far enough.At the very least,race track profits should be taxed as capital gains,not as ordinary income.Better still,make winnings tax free,but we are dreaming on this one;very little chance for tax free winnings becoming a reality.

[The Judge]

Mention footprints on discarded tickets

[big frank]

thanks

[JustRalph]

Just a note re. the title of this thread. This bill will not eliminate the tax on winnings, only the mandatory withholding when you cash the ticket.

I was wondering why this seemed so important. I guess I would rather make them wait for the money. But this really doesn't do anything long term........you still have to pay.........unlike Canada

[BillW]

I was wondering why this seemed so important. I guess I would rather make them wait for the money. But this really doesn't do anything long term........you still have to pay.........unlike Canada

99% of the players don't have to pay it. That is the issue - you have to wait for sometimes over a year to get your money back (via write offs that bring your winnings back to $0)

[JustRalph]

99% of the players don't have to pay it. That is the issue - you have to wait for sometimes over a year to get your money back (via write offs that bring your winnings back to $0)

:ThmbUp:

Everybody on PA is a winner...........don't you read the polls?

:lol:

[trying2win]

[QUOTE=JustRalph]I was wondering why this seemed so important. I guess I would rather make them wait for the money. But this really doesn't do anything long term........you still have to pay.........unlike Canada[/QUOTE

Ralph:

As a Canadian, I can be smug about not having to pay any tax on parimutuel winnings. Unfortunately, our American bettor friends don't have the same benefit at present. If you sent an email to GLENN BECK, do you think he would he raise this issue on his TV program, and rake some of your congress representatives over-the-coals on this item?...(figuratively, that is).


T2W

[rrbauer]

This is a step in the right direction,but does not go far enough.At the very least,race track profits should be taxed as capital gains,not as ordinary income.Better still,make winnings tax free,but we are dreaming on this one;very little chance for tax free winnings becoming a reality.

Short-term capital gains ARE ordinary income!

[rrbauer]

First of all, you will need the services of a competent tax preparer. I would suggest a CPA.

Your winnings will be reported on Form 1040 as "Other Income". Your losses will be entered on Schedule A as itemized deductions. Losing tickets are deductible to the extent of your winnings. You should keep all pertinent records of the dates and amounts of your bets. Records may include losing tickets, marked-up forms and/or programs, or a printout from an ADW.

It is not advisable to scoop tickets off the floor. A sharp auditor can spot irregularities in betting patterns.


Hints:
1. You don't need a CPA.
2. You do need to keep records. A daily betting log works just fine and frequent reviews of it may help you improve your play.
3. If you don't itemize then you can't deduct the losses and about 2/3 of taxpayers do not itemize.

[rrbauer]

I would think and hope the newly formed HANA and the other 2 handicappers groups should be all over this Congressman. It's a big step, if he can keep
it moving.

It isn't this congressman that needs to be tweaked...he's doing his part by introducing the legislation. It's the representatives in congress from the districts of each horseplayer that need to be tweaked. Nothing will happen on this bill until Congress returns from their summer recess in September. Then is the time to launch the email and letter-writing campaigns. If you're not sure of who your rep is or the email/mailing address you can look all of that up very easily at:

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

[MYKE]

I would keep programs and losing tickets stapled inside program. The IRS aren't fools they will be looking for consistency in your betting if your audited.

The only way to recoup federal taxes taken from winning tickest over $5000 is to be able to claim deductions on a Schedule A that will take a person over the standard deduction. If your deductions are lower than the standard deduction of $10000(guessing) married or $7000(guessing) single no recoup of taxes taken.

[cj's dad]

1-Keeping programs is not a necessity, losing tix are.
2-Try to go to the same teller for every bet.
3-Do not pick up loose tix- the appearance (to the IRS) of betting against yourself is a sure tip-off.
4-Bundle each days losers with a rubber band and a slip of paper detailing the amount.

I was audited 10 years ago for just this issue - in and out in a 1/2 hour, primarily because of the above methods; the auditor never said one word about a program!

[jonnielu]

There is an election coming up, and I'm sure this little move will buy a few votes. If people want it to go somewhere, they will need to get behind it and push real hard. Congress, in no era, has never given back any power that will have yielded to it. And, this may well be one that must be taken back.

This is much like asking a thief to leave you half.

jdl

[jonnielu]

[QUOTE=JustRalph]I was wondering why this seemed so important. I guess I would rather make them wait for the money. But this really doesn't do anything long term........you still have to pay.........unlike Canada[/QUOTE

Ralph:

As a Canadian, I can be smug about not having to pay any tax on parimutuel winnings. Unfortunately, our American bettor friends don't have the same benefit at present. If you sent an email to GLENN BECK, do you think he would he raise this issue on his TV program, and rake some of your congress representatives over-the-coals on this item?...(figuratively, that is).


T2W

Americans also need to start asking some questions, and insisting on answers. Such as:

If the withholding on gambling is authorized by law that is applicable to you,

why MUST you sign a form with which you authorize the track to withhold it and send it to the masters of the universe in Washington D.C.?????????

How does the IRS impose Title 26 on a horse track without being able to authorize the track to do what is supposedly imposed????

Want to know where the authority lies? Simply refuse to sign the form.

Another good question:

If the IRS operates with a lawful authority, why does it do everything as far as collecting goes, through a third party? Like your employer, your bank, and the racetrack/lotto office?

jdl

[rrbauer]

1-Keeping programs is not a necessity, losing tix are.
2-Try to go to the same teller for every bet.
3-Do not pick up loose tix- the appearance (to the IRS) of betting against yourself is a sure tip-off.
4-Bundle each days losers with a rubber band and a slip of paper detailing the amount.

I was audited 10 years ago for just this issue - in and out in a 1/2 hour, primarily because of the above methods; the auditor never said one word about a program!

Been audited four times in last 10 years: No hassle either. Never kept a single ticket, but I have a record of every bet I made, where I made it, what I bet on and the result. I think the key is a consistent and organized approach. Once, I hauled two-boxes (former 10-ream paper cartons) of records into the guy's office using a hand truck. After about ten minutes he starts looking through my return trying to find something else!

[1st time lasix]

They ought to eliminate 'signers" too. The IRS already gets there $$$ from the pools/tracks. Why we are at it.....why should investors pay taxes on common stock dividend? The corporations pay the tax on their earnings already..... :bang:

[cj's dad]

If one is working and paying taxes as I and many here are, why must we then pay taxes again on monies won with money that was already taxed?

[socantra]

The fact that the representative represents a district with a racing constituancy says that he has now done something to satisfy that constituency and get headlines for him, the NTRA lobbyist and the NTRA players group. The fact that there are no cosponsers probably indicates how seriously everyone takes this particular bill.

[big frank]

did you always get all of the taxes they held back ? i play 98% of the time at home through otb.... do they see where you made your bets ??? i will probably be ahead for the year and want that money back

[takeout]

Why was I thinking it was 28%? :confused:

[cj's dad]

Why was I thinking it was 28%? :confused:

Probably because that is a milestone % at a given income level as set by the IRS.

[Pace Cap'n]

Why was I thinking it was 28%? :confused:

The lottery.

[chrisl]

I e-mailed my local congressman, in my district, about this bill, 3 times with the generated letter from Hana and the NTRA. This was over about a three week period, No response at all, from Dan Lundgrun... Sacramento Ca

[cj's dad]

I e-mailed my local congressman, in my district, about this bill, 3 times with the generated letter from Hana and the NTRA. This was over about a three week period, No response at all, from Dan Lundgrun... Sacramento Ca

Phone calls work much better. Give the bill # and your position. Most e-mails to reps go to their spam folder.

[cj's dad]

[QUOTE=karlskorner]7/29/08
Representative Charles W. Boustany Jr. (R-Louisiana) sponsers the bill named
the Pari-Mutuel Conformity and Equality Act of 2008.
[QUOTE]

What is the bill # ???

[socantra]

[QUOTE=karlskorner]7/29/08
Representative Charles W. Boustany Jr. (R-Louisiana) sponsers the bill named
the Pari-Mutuel Conformity and Equality Act of 2008.
[QUOTE]

What is the bill # ???

Clerk's office says the number is H. R. 6631 and that has been referred to the Ways and Means committee. If you try to look it up by number, it says its invalid. That probably means that the clerk got the bill right before recess, assigned a number and referred it to committee, but since it hasn't been officially received by the committee and assigned to a subcommittee, it is in limbo til congress comes back in session,

If it doesn't pass by the end of this election year session (which is mostly recess), it gets thrown out. Anyone want to take book on that?

[chrisl]

Thank you for that tip, I will call today..Chrisl

[Sailwolf]

First of all, you will need the services of a competent tax preparer. I would suggest a CPA.

Your winnings will be reported on Form 1040 as "Other Income". Your losses will be entered on Schedule A as itemized deductions. Losing tickets are deductible to the extent of your winnings. You should keep all pertinent records of the dates and amounts of your bets. Records may include losing tickets, marked-up forms and/or programs, or a printout from an ADW.

It is not advisable to scoop tickets off the floor. A sharp auditor can spot irregularities in betting patterns.

additional information: losses not subject to the 2% rule

[Stillriledup]

Are bettors still getting whacked for 25%? I'm assuming nothing got done.

[andymays]

Are bettors still getting whacked for 25%? I'm assuming nothing got done.


Yes.

The way they went about getting it done was absurd. The bill never had a chance.

How often do politicians do something only because it's the right thing to do?


Answer: Rarely

[lamboguy]

if they elimingate all forms of taxation for the gambling player, the government could wind up with more revenue if they structured the deal proberly. i would takeout 2% for federal tax right out of the mutual pool, and 1% for the state.

i say they wind up with double the revenue within 3 years with that move. samething with the lottery's

[Viruss]

hi all ,,, i have been playing along time ,, but just this year did i start playing exotics like pick 4s @ have been lucky 3 times this year when i went over the number and they withheld the taxes .. i was reading that i should get all of it back ,,,, but what type of records do i need to show losses ? i heard about picking up losing tickets but i heard you could just right down your record.. i am sure there are plenty of members here who hit big signers and how do you handle getting your money back at the end of the year ? thanks


I think you can use any type of gambling loss my wife saved us a bunch on IRS because of slot loss but the State taxes still kicked are butts...


Earl J

[therussmeister]

Mention footprints on discarded tickets

Not to mention tickets that have you betting at a window on the third floor, and 30 seconds later at a window on the first floor.

[ClassTrumpsSpeed]

7/29/08

A bill introduced in the United States House of Representatives on Tuesday
would eliminate the 25% federal withholding on pari-mutuel winnings of
$5000 or more for bets that carry odds of 300-1 or more.

Representative Charles W. Boustany Jr. (R-Louisiana) sponsers the bill named
the Pari-Mutuel Conformity and Equality Act of 2008.

The withholding threshold has been unchanged in the Internal Revenue Code
since it was increased from $1000 to $5000 in 1992. Exotic wagering has
grown dramatically in that period.

"The negative impact of withholding is muti
-faceted" said Peggy Hendershot,
the National Thoroughbred Racing Assoc.'s senior vice president of
legislative affairs. "For the betting public, it has meant a confiscatory and
frequently unfair loss of available capital. That loss of reinvestment or "churn" leads to a reduction in overall wagering that in turn means less
revenue generated for state governments, racetracks, and purse money for
horsemen.

"Our industry and our fans applaud Congressman Boustany for introducing
this important legislaton and we look forward to working with our new
Horseplayers' Coalition to add support to this initiative"

How about also establishing that NET WINNINGS be put in the "gambling income" box on the Form 1040? The way it's done now, you can "win" $6k on a signer, deduct 6k in losses, pay "no taxes" on the resulting break-even, yet lose the standard deduction because you have to itemize. Meanwhile, people who don't hit signers should also have to do this, yet don't.

Another way to increase in-state wagering would be to eliminate state taxes on gambling winnings for bets placed within that state. If the WTO ruling ever sticks here, and we need to compete against offshores, then it should be extended to federal taxes on winnings on bets placed within the Unied States.

[Stillriledup]

Lets say you box eight horses in the tri for 336 and you hit the tri and it pays 672....you doubled your money and you're 'signing'.

One poster here at PA said that its viewed as a 1 dollar wager and the other 335 dollars that you wagered on the ticket are considered 'seperate' wagers and you wouldn't get 'credit' for having wagered 336 on the race. Unfortunately, your ticket is 'proof' that you DID wager 336 on that particular bet. You turned your 336 into an even money shot. This bet is equivalent to betting 336 on an even money shot to win.

All this 'signer' stuff is akin to the IRS saying "We think you are going to cheat on your taxes, so we're taking our cut now, we can't take a chance that you'll 'underreport' your income, so we are not going to give you the chance to be honest. Actually, we don't care if you are an honest tax payer, we're going to treat you like a cheat"

[Robert Goren]

All this stuff is true, but it ain't going change anytime soon soon.

[toussaud]

Lets say you box eight horses in the tri for 336 and you hit the tri and it pays 672....you doubled your money and you're 'signing'.

One poster here at PA said that its viewed as a 1 dollar wager and the other 335 dollars that you wagered on the ticket are considered 'seperate' wagers and you wouldn't get 'credit' for having wagered 336 on the race. Unfortunately, your ticket is 'proof' that you DID wager 336 on that particular bet. You turned your 336 into an even money shot. This bet is equivalent to betting 336 on an even money shot to win.

All this 'signer' stuff is akin to the IRS saying "We think you are going to cheat on your taxes, so we're taking our cut now, we can't take a chance that you'll 'underreport' your income, so we are not going to give you the chance to be honest. Actually, we don't care if you are an honest tax payer, we're going to treat you like a cheat" if you boxed 8 horses in a tri you don't have a chance in hell long term in the first place.

[BreadandButter]

Lets say you box eight horses in the tri for 336 and you hit the tri and it pays 672....you doubled your money and you're 'signing'.

One poster here at PA said that its viewed as a 1 dollar wager and the other 335 dollars that you wagered on the ticket are considered 'seperate' wagers and you wouldn't get 'credit' for having wagered 336 on the race. Unfortunately, your ticket is 'proof' that you DID wager 336 on that particular bet. You turned your 336 into an even money shot. This bet is equivalent to betting 336 on an even money shot to win.

All this 'signer' stuff is akin to the IRS saying "We think you are going to cheat on your taxes, so we're taking our cut now, we can't take a chance that you'll 'underreport' your income, so we are not going to give you the chance to be honest. Actually, we don't care if you are an honest tax payer, we're going to treat you like a cheat"


How about putting just over $6k out on a single pick six ticket and no one hits it - but you collect $5,200 on 5 of 6.

So my $800 lose becomes a $5.2k gain to the tie wearing monkeys and they withhold money on top of it. :bang:

[Stillriledup]

How about putting just over $6k out on a single pick six ticket and no one hits it - but you collect $5,200 on 5 of 6.

So my $800 lose becomes a $5.2k gain to the tie wearing monkeys and they withhold money on top of it. :bang:

Exacty, this happens all the time to big bettors. Its almost impossible to overcome.